John Lees Interview - Vampire: The Masquerade: Wake in Hate

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[00:00:54] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yetis Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo. Very excited for today's guest. This will be his third time on the podcast. And we're talking about two that I think are kind of unique projects because they both started as tabletop RPGs. And our guest has now adapted them both.

[00:01:18] Also, we're going to touch on some other things that he has as coming out and look back maybe on some of his other projects that we talked about previously. Because it's his third time on the podcast. Please welcome back John Lees. John, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. I'm feeling better for once again being on the Cryptid Creator Corner. Thank you for having me back. I'm glad that the trauma of the last two days was enough to discourage you from a future visit. No, not at all. Not at all.

[00:01:47] I mean, yeah, I was excited to have you back to see the stuff that you're working on. And actually, I just recently as we record this, I guess two weeks ago was New York Comic Con, which I got to go to for the very first time. I'd never been to New York Comic Con before. Yeah, it was. I mean, overwhelming is like the first word that comes to mind. I don't but I don't mean that in a negative way to anyone like there's just I have said probably already on this podcast.

[00:02:18] So listeners might have heard this before, but I felt like I did a million things and I felt like there was still a million things that I wanted to do that there just wasn't time for. But your name came up several times because the first time this has ever happened to me, I was talking to Stephanie Brooks, who was one of the editors like the first editor for for my graphic novel Penny and the Yeti at Paper Cuts, who is now at Vault.

[00:02:46] And I was talking to her at the Vault booth and somebody said, Jimmy, you know, from the podcast, I've never been recognized at anything, you know, by someone who has not been on the podcast. Yeah, like, oh, comic book Yeti. But yes, if somebody else that said they listen to the podcast, they came over and said hello. And I was shocked that it wasn't just like, you know, a regular civilian member of the public.

[00:03:15] It was Adam P. Knave. Oh, the Adam Cahoon. Yeah. Yeah. Listeners who may not know who was the artist on The Nasty that John wrote, which was was published by Vault. And yeah, I was absolutely shocked, thrilled. Adam's actually going to be coming on soon. Oh, I'm glad. Adam is a great guy like fantastic partner on The Nasty. I never knew him before we did The Nasty. Like Vault matches us up together because Adam came on.

[00:03:43] John, I don't mean to interrupt, but you got to find a better way to say that you didn't know him before. You did The Nasty. Yeah, no, like I was very intimate, you know, but I went straight into it. Yeah. But once you did The Nasty, we had a deeper understanding of one another. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But like we met for the first time on the last American show I did, which was Emerald City Comic Con 2024. Okay.

[00:04:13] And we tabled together for that. And like he's a great guy as well as being an immensely talented artist. And also as well as being a great comic artist, did fantastic work on The Nasty. He's kind of emerged as like one of the best comic, as well as some of the best cover artists in the game right now. He's been doing a lot of amazing stuff for Vault, including their novels and their hardcovers and things. He's just a fantastic cover artist. Yeah. There's a real great composition sense.

[00:04:38] And we're working on something together, which probably won't be ready to get announced for a long time yet. But I think it's going to be amazing. It might be like my favorite thing I've ever written. And I think Adam's going to knock it out of the park. So like one day, hopefully we can both be back on in the future to talk about that. Yeah. But yeah, Adam's a great guy. I would love to have you both on to talk about that whenever, whenever it, whenever it gets announced. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:03] So that was your name came up because I was saying that, you know, I had already had you on the schedule to talk to. So so Adam and I were talking about you. And and yeah, I'm excited to have him come on to talk about like his career in in comics. But yeah, the first time you were on the podcast, we talked about The Nasty. We talked about Orla and yeah, we have you have done.

[00:05:27] You've now adapted Darkest Dungeon, which as we record this, it's on backer kit right now until the the end of the month. I think it's closing in on four hundred thousand dollars in terms of. Yeah, it's crazy. Backer kit. Yeah. And also for Titan comics.

[00:05:47] The other thing we're going to talk about today is Vampire the Masquerade Wake in Hate based on the popular, you know, role playing game that is going to be out November 11th. You're working with Tom Mandrake for that. But before we get into those, because last time you were on, we talked about Orla. I think I think when when that episode came out, it was like maybe Orla, the first issue might have been out or just out.

[00:06:14] And I'm just kind of curious, you know, kind of like to look back on it, because I think at least in my circles, it seemed like Orla did did well. I think it was really well received. You and artist Sally Cantorino. I absolutely love Sally's work. What was that experience like? Like, you know, because when you put something out there, you never know if it's like you're just chucking your comics into the void or if people are going to like pay attention or read it.

[00:06:43] And so what was the experience like like with Orla with something that at least I feel like people who are clued into the indie comic circle did did fairly well seem to be really well received. We're really well reviewed. Yeah, like the reviews were fantastic, which I was very appreciative of.

[00:07:01] And it feels like the project had legs, like for what I think initially, like in this sort of like direct market when it first kind of launched, it seemed to be do quite modestly. But the kind of positive buzz seemed to kind of ensure it kept momentum. And by the time we got to the trade and the bookstore market, and then like the collection and comic shops that performed like above expectations and did very well in that sense. I think a big part of it was the response and the reviews.

[00:07:28] And yeah, it's very gratifying because it's something that's kind of outside of my comfort zone, where like it's people associate me with horror and gore. And there's a little bit of horror and a little bit of gore in Orla as well, but it's like more of a love story. It's quite upbeat in a lot of ways. And so it's something that's not necessarily in my usual wheelhouse. So it was nice to see that people still responded to it and people really enjoyed it.

[00:07:55] And I think a big part of that is like the rest of the creative team are just doing incredible work like Sally. As I mentioned and like the last time when I was on talking about Orla, Sally was already one of my favorite artists and comics before we worked together on this. So I was really excited to have Sally on board for Orla. And I think she knocked it out of the park. I might be biased, but I think it's some of like the best stuff she's done. I loved it. I loved Orla. I loved Sally's work. Yeah.

[00:08:24] And like Sally and Deerpla Kelly, the colorist is like the perfect partner for Sally. And the two of them had a great visual palette. And obviously Lucas Cattoni is like a pro letterer who just was actually used it. So yeah, the whole book felt good. It's just a physical artifact. It just felt really nice, I think. And then when Madcap put together the actual like package of the original, the final collected edition, it just looked like a really good book.

[00:08:51] And yes, like I'm seeing like on Goodreads, I sometimes have the toxic habit of like checking out reviews and stuff when I probably shouldn't be. But I do sometimes periodically check on Goodreads and it seems like it's averaging at a good score. And some of the responses seem to be very positive. And yeah, and a lot of like non traditionally comic reading audiences seem to be picking up as well, which is quite interesting. So it seems to have a lot of like a widespread of people interested in it, which is good.

[00:09:18] And as I say, looking back at the story now, it's like one of my favorite things that I've written. It's a story I'm really proud of. And I'm really happy that audiences responded to it. And like much has said with Adam, I'm hoping that like me and Sally and that whole team can find a way to come with a new project to work on together soon because that whole experience was a dream. Oh, awesome. Well, that's that's nice to hear that, you know, when you find something that you really

[00:09:46] like and it's it's it can tell on the page sometimes that the creative team like either really enjoyed working together or really enjoyed the project, you know, because of how well everything come together. I mean, sometimes that's not true. Somebody people sometimes people just don't like each other. And maybe there's like an editor behind the scenes that pulls it all together. But yeah, I really enjoyed Orla listeners. If you haven't checked out Orla yet, go get the trade. It's it's it's fantastic. But so let's talk about Vampire the Masquerade Wake in hate.

[00:10:16] And this is going to be Titan Comics. As I said, November 11th. It's you working with Tom Mandrake. You know, how did this project kind of come about? And I've always I'm always curious and like to ask folks who do adaptations like what is your process like different? Like, how do you get into that mindset? Like Orla is, you know, creator owned. It's it's it's your work.

[00:10:42] But when you have to take something, especially something like Vampire the Masquerade that has like a ton of stuff out there about it, how do you find your way in to kind of craft that story? Well, somewhat of a new process for me because between these two projects like this is probably my biggest foray into IP and licensed work was really like mostly I've done create own stuff.

[00:11:10] The biggest kind of leap into IP work before was when I did a decade ago now, which is terrifying. I did Teenage Mutant Turtles. Yeah. The turtles. But yeah, so it's kind of a not necessarily kind of a new territory. So I'm kind of learning as I go in some ways. But I think like obviously there's like different like skills at play. And obviously when you're working on licensed work, it's like, you know, you're playing with somebody else's toys versus like, you know, playing with your own toys. You have to be careful. You're not going to break in.

[00:11:40] You want to try and be your best behavior. Yeah. But so yeah. And obviously you have like, you know, like limitations and framework and as you have to balance like what you, your natural storytelling instincts might be with like what would be best for the property or the brand or like keeping in continuity. But on the flip side, that structure can be really helpful as well that you're not having to kind of like build something from scratch and think about like, oh, how does this all work? Because a lot of that's been laid out before you already.

[00:12:08] And like you have like rules to you can build on and you have established lore that you can play off of and riff off of. So that's good. And then the advantage as well as like you have a inbuilt fan base who are already engaged and interested in the property because something tells me that as much as I like to be confident in my writing class that like that 400,000 for Darkest Dungeon was not full. You know, I can't wait to get the next John Lee's comic. It's like it's the Darkest Dungeon brand.

[00:12:39] Like so like that helps as well like that you put like a lot of that work is done for you because as like we mentioned, as you touched on a little bit there when we were talking about Orla and like the fears of writing on indie comics. It's hard when like you write a book and then you have to start promoting it from zero and you're having to like go to like shops and be like, this is my story. This is why you should care. So it's quite helpful when like that a lot of that work has been done already

[00:13:03] because like this established world that has expectations and has a genre established and has a fan base established. So that's really helpful. But yeah. So yeah, like obviously there's a bit of a sort of push and pull, but I'm enjoying the process of working on adaptations. And once we get into each one specifically, I can talk a little bit more about it. But yeah, like obviously like it helps as well when you're in contact with people who are the kind of like the custodians

[00:13:33] or the owners of the property that can give you feedback and say this is what you should be doing. And like you have that extra degree of insight, which helps keep you on track as well. Yeah. Well, so let's talk about the story for Vampire the Masquerade for Wake in Hate.

[00:13:47] So I mean, I understand that it's kind of like whether or not the I guess the initial idea or pitch was whether or not vampires are kind of exploiting the the unrest in in the city on edge and kind of take it from there. What can you know readers expect?

[00:14:08] Okay, so I've probably gone to a little bit about like the process between how I came to this story, which was originally Titan approached me and they asked me about interest in doing a story for specifically Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2, which was the video game sequel to Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, which, you know, came out last year.

[00:14:32] And so it was a very like, so not so not only like was it like a license in terms of the TTRPG, but specifically the video game adaptation of the TTRPG in that world and that continuity. And so they kind of gave me a very wide brief. There's like come up with like any story idea you want. It can be a sequel, it can be a prequel, it can be whatever else. So when I was kind of like coming up with ideas, I thought I don't want to do a sequel because like Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 has branching endings, whereas like depending on the choices you make impacts on what the ending is.

[00:14:59] So I did not want to say, oh, this is the canon ending and kind of disrespect anybody else's like, you know, version of what the ending is going to be. And similarly, I didn't use the main character, Fire, who is like a player design character where the player can decide on their vampire clan, their appearance, even their gender. I didn't want to go with this as Fire because again, everyone has their own version of Fire. So I ended up doing a prequel.

[00:15:22] I ended up focusing on Silky, who's a kind of supporting character in the game, who's a character you meet in the Dutchman bar who gives you advice and guidance. So I made him the main character. The story was kind of inspired by the setting of the game, which is the game is set in Seattle in 2024. So for a prequel, I thought it would be interesting to do something in Seattle in 2020 against the backdrop of during like the Black Lives Matter protests.

[00:15:50] Seattle, which was America across the whole of America and beyond. But Seattle specifically had a very kind of like noteworthy offshoot of it where they established a cop free zone throughout Capitol Hill in Seattle, covering several blocks where police were barred from. And it was like, we're going to govern ourselves. We're going to have our own authority here.

[00:16:07] So I had this idea of exploring like what happens when ostensibly like there isn't any necessary police or any kind of official like legal intervention. But what happens when violence is still happening, unrest is happening. And there's like an immediate scrutiny in the area as well.

[00:16:28] And the vampires or the kindred as they're called in the world, the vampire masquerade are very wary of like this increased scrutiny, possibly putting them in danger and threatening masquerade and the anonymity of the masquerade. Hence, Silky, our main character kind of entering the chop, the Capitol Hill occupied protest to investigate. And from there, like it becomes like a little exploration of like the world and the sort of like unrest in 2020 and by extension, the world and unrest now.

[00:16:57] And the main villains in the story are this band of vampires who like have commandeered a police van and are kind of essentially driving around and like abducting people under the guise of being agents of the law.

[00:17:13] And for me, when I was first developing this story, which was around like February, March, like for me, very prominently in my head was like it feels like the sort of monster of the moment seems to be like faceless people who ostensibly claim to have like legal authority snatching people off of the street and making them disappear. And like, so that felt like a certain resonance when I was writing this story.

[00:17:39] And so, yes, it's something that kind of feel like it's hopefully touching a lot of topical points while still being something which is like very much like a horror story in tune with the world of darkness in the video games. And, yes, we're really kind of like rewarding process to kind of balance that and to see if I can tell a story, which is in one hand, part of this universe, but also something that feels personal to me and something I would be interested in telling. Oh, wow.

[00:18:06] You've mentioned earlier about like you have when you're working on IP, you have somebody there who, you know, kind of like can help, you know, focus or tell you like what they think or you can't go too far, like whatever it might be. So I'm curious, like what are those conversations like actually like? Like, are you put in touch with the folks who like hold the license for Vampire the Masquerade or is it all through like an editor at Titan?

[00:18:33] Like, how does that process work in terms of like getting notes? Well, in terms of this project, for Titan, their process seems to be that we'll work on the project. In every stage, like I'll send something to the editorial and editorial will approve it, you know, and then editorial will then pass that on to their licensor, like White Wolf Publishing, who will then come back with further notes or approval or denial or whatever else.

[00:18:59] So like that, that's kind of the case for every stage of the process where like, where I first submitted the outline. Well, I kind of had this idea of like they said, do you have any story ideas? And I thought I'll come up with this. And if, you know, like they say this is too close to the bone and they don't want to do it, then that means I just won't do it. But like they came back and said like, no, we like this idea, you want to do it, which was encouraging. And then like, again, it was like submitted the script and it's the same process, but the editorial approved it.

[00:19:28] Then it went off to the licensing people. And they've had a lot of like helpful notes. And it's like, not just in terms of like overarching, like, you know, in terms of like, we don't know if this is good for the brand or whatever, but generally like just like in terms of continuity, like, oh, the vampires in Vampire the Masquerade wouldn't do this. Or if someone, you know, like a vampire gets punched, they won't have a bloody mouth because vampires don't bleed in Vampire the Masquerade.

[00:19:56] You know, so a lot of things like that are really helpful. And yes, so it's always, it's always good because like, I'm not overly familiar with Vampire the Masquerade. You know, I have some degree of knowledge of it, but I'm by no means an expert. So it feels like comforting that people who do know what they're talking about are kind of like giving me that layer of knowledge to make sure I'm keeping on track. So yeah, it's very helpful. Oh, well, that's, I just, I'm always curious about, about that, that process.

[00:20:24] Like whether or not you feel like as a writer, like, oh, I'm getting bogged down by notes or it's like, you know, it's interesting to hear like, oh no, this is actually like really helpful because I'm sure there's a lot to, to know with something like, you know, Vampire the Masquerade and that, that type of, of history. And yeah, like it's been like, I've heard of it for like 30 years of Lord and Quentin A. Right. Yeah. And like, I've heard of it. Yeah.

[00:20:49] Um, I, I've never played it, you know, I don't know the, the ins and outs of it, but, um, I don't, I, it doesn't, it doesn't sound like you need to though, in order to read, you know, in order to read the comic. No, very much, very much what I've been trying to do is, is I've been trying to do something which, if you played the game and you like the characters, you'll recognize stuff and you'll enjoy it.

[00:21:09] If you play Vampire the Masquerade, generally speaking, there's elements you like, you know, go list, feels like something that's thematically in keeping with the ideas and the struggles of the game. You know, like there is tension between like a heroic character that you want to invest in versus the truth of like, then I'm monster that's a slayer to the rack of tights and that push and pull.

[00:21:28] So I've been playing with those themes as well, but, um, also I wanted to develop something which was like, um, if you are one of the tens of comic readers around the world who's like a John Lee's fan specifically, wanted to dig up my books, then you can like, um, like you can just pick this up as like a new John Lee's horror comic without any knowledge of the games or the, um, lore. And hopefully it'll work as a self-contained story in its own right.

[00:21:55] Now, but that's what I was, I was trying to write something which yes, is Vampire the Masquerade, but also just works as a kind of good standalone vampire narrative. And it was like the kind of vampire story that I would be interested in telling if I was given a black page and a black slate to create something from scratch. Okay. And so, um, also like, what was it like working, you know, on this with, um, but it's Tom Mandrake, right? Tom Mandrake, yeah. Well, I think that I've been saying, my initial reaction was what yours was there, which was like, it's Tom Mandrake.

[00:22:25] Yeah. Yeah. Like, is there like, is there like Tom Mandrake who like did so many books with like John Ostrander? Like, is there another Tom Mandrake? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, let's say like when the books say like, cause I, I don't do script. I started writing the scripts and, um, like working on the book before they had the arts attached. And then the editor, um, Luis, I was talking to him and he was like, yes, we've got the artist on board now who's Tom Mandrake. And I was like, excuse me? Yeah.

[00:22:55] Tom Mandrake. Um, I was like, oh shit, this is, this is legit now. Um, I was like, um, as a little example, like what a legend Tom Mandrake is, it was recently, uh, my 40th birthday. Um, and I had a little party with some friends and they all got me very nice considering gifts. And one of my friends, Heather, uh, they got me a gift, which was, they'd sought out the issue of Batman.

[00:23:23] Cause you know, I'm a big Batman fan, which was released on, um, the year and month of my birthday. So they got, um, this issue of Batman, September, 1986, um, lovely condition, nice bag and board, um, cover of a severed head on the front, which is really appropriate for me. And who's the artist on this book, but Tom Mandrake. Um, and I'm like, I was literally born to work on Vampire and the Masquerade with Tom Mandrake.

[00:23:52] Um, that's awesome. Shout out to Heather too. Yeah. Thanks Heather. Yeah. But yeah, so like when I was taught in, like we had this meeting, um, this video call to talk about the project and Tom couldn't be nicer, very humble guy. I, he doesn't have any kind of airs of being like this tenured comic legend. The issue that he approaches with the project, like, okay, on what we do and how we're going to approach it.

[00:24:17] Um, talk to me, like I was a valued collaborator who he wanted to hear from, like, rather than like someone who wasn't even alive when he started doing this. Um, so, um, that was really gratifying. And, um, yeah, like the, the work he's been doing in this has been absolutely stunning. Um, Titan have been, you know, having released a lot of it. Um, they've been trying to, generally speaking, Titan are quite kind of protected about how much they shared in advance. But I've been seeing the stuff coming out.

[00:24:46] And, like, yeah, Tom is a legend. If he'd wanted to phone this in and wanted to kind of just go, oh, I'll just do whatever it's, you know, a licensed gig, yada yada. I probably still would have looked great. But he's genuinely doing some of the best stuff of his I've seen in ages. It's like, when the page, like, I just recently got all the inks in from Ish for issue two for my review. And when I was looking through this, I felt like I was levitating. Um, like, it is just, like, you know, utterly stunning.

[00:25:13] Some of the best pages I've seen from anything that I've been associated with. Absolutely stunning work. Um, and it's so incredible that he's still putting up stuff of this standard. And I think, like, for me, like, it's making, it makes me feel like the book is better. Like, you know, I want to write better to live up to, like, what Tom has drawn. Because Tom is absolutely knocking it out of the park. Absolutely stunning work. Um, and then the great thing is we had, we built up a little bit of a rapport where, um,

[00:25:43] we are following off of that initial video call. We used up a little side channel so we could both talk to each other. So it wasn't just, like, communications through editors. Because I like to have, I like to establish, um, direct contact with an artist in a project. So it's not just, like, me sending something to the editor. And then the editor kind of, like, getting to the artist. And the artist getting back to the editor and back to me. I think, like, I like to have a kind of, like, you know, connection with people. So they can reach out to me if they have any issues or questions. So it's actually really nice to have, like, little messages from Tom.

[00:26:11] He's like, oh, I read the latest script and it's really good. And I'll be like, oh, I've seen the pages and they're stunning. And so I know, like, and it's been really nice to have a kind of, like, enjoyable process working with Tom. And as I say, like, his work on it's just getting better and better with each passing issue. I can't wait for you all to see it. That's awesome. And I want to get back to, you know, you said, I know I said a shout out to Heather. But my brother and I do that for each other.

[00:26:38] So shout out also to Bobby, the Cryptid Creator Corner's number one dedicated fan. Bobby listens to all my episodes. And Bobby and I, I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but Bobby and I do that. We have gone and we'll get, you know, whatever series it might be that came out the month and year that we were born as, like, a birthday present. That's something that we've been doing, you know, for some of, like, the characters we really like.

[00:27:04] You know, he's gotten me the Green Lantern that came out March of 79. And I've done the same thing for him for, like, I think, like, you know, because he's a big, like, X-Men Wolverine. And Hulk is really his probably favorite. So the Hulk that came out in January of 82. But, yeah, that is just really funny, though. Listeners, if you're curious, I did just look it up real quick.

[00:27:34] It is Batman 399, I think, that came out in September of 86. Yeah, there's everybody in the 86. Like, a gruesome, like, shrunken head that acts in the time of terror. Yeah. Yeah, but, like, listeners, if you don't know, like, you know, you heard everything John was saying about Tom Mandrake. But he's done so much work in comics. But, like, for Batman, like, I think it was him and, I don't know if it was Doug Mentz or John Ostrander.

[00:28:03] But they created Black Mask. You know, I think he also created... I remember, like, as a little kid, just getting properly into, like, you know, real comics after, like, you know, watching, like, Batman and anything series and whatever else. And one of the first proper comics I read was Nightfall. I was going to end my gateways at the comics. And seeing the character of Black Mask, who I'd never heard of prior to this point, and thinking, what a cool character design. That's awesome.

[00:28:31] And never am I happy to imagine that you'll one day be working with the guy who like you. Yeah, absolutely. It's pretty incredible. Well, that sounds very exciting, though. And I'm a big... Like, even though I have not, like, played Masquerade, I'm a huge, you know, vampire comic fan. So I'll read them all. So that's very exciting. So November 11th, that'll be out. Yeah. Titan Comics. Coming soon. I'll have links to everything in the show notes, as always, listeners.

[00:29:01] But... So let's talk about this, the Vault Project, Darkest Dungeon. As we record this, it's on backer kit until the end of the month. It's already at very close to $400,000, which, I mean, that seems like a pretty big deal. This is another adaptation from an RPG. And I think, you know, this is... This, though, is set more like a sequel to the game, right? Yeah.

[00:29:32] This one is a follow-up. It's a sequel. Following on from the story of Darkest Dungeon 2. Darkest Dungeon, for those not familiar, is a rogues-like video game where you select a kind of band of adventurers through my selection of characters. And you take them on, like, this really insidiously difficult mission and a trail.

[00:29:59] And the kind of concept of the game is that it's incredibly difficult. You're expected to fail and you're expected to lose badly. And so the first time you play, you won't get very far. But then every time you lose, you go back to the start again, you get to build your stats up. And then you get to start again, so you can get a little bit of bother each time along. And they kind of have this really great mechanic where, as you're going through this map, it's kind of ostensible, like we think would be as a kind of fantasy premise of, like,

[00:30:26] a band of adventurers traveling through a dungeon or through, like, a map towards a mountain in the sequel. And, like, so that seems like a kind of fantasy premise, but it's really kind of taken into a horror twist because, like, the premise is, like, this kind of, like, this, you know, like, some, these cosmic horrors that have came on from this other realm of existence have polluted this world. So you're fighting these eldritch monstrosities and the art design is, like, really gruesome and hideous.

[00:30:55] So it's a really kind of broken world with these really horrendous monstrous creations and apparitions that you happen to find. And even your own characters are all, like, deeply broken, fucked up souls. And the one the mechanics you have to work against is, as well as, like, dealing with damage and, like, physical, like, wear and tear of your characters, you're also dealing with a fear meter, which over the course of the story, like, the fear meter builds up through all their exposure to what they've been encountering.

[00:31:24] And so you have various ways of dealing with this fear meter, whether it be, like, in-game, like, mechanics and moves you can use or potions or health buffs or, like, you can give your character their drinking addiction to ease the fear or you can, like, have them play music or play cards or do other things to kind of, like, you know, combat it. But if that fear meter maxes out, your character goes into meltdown mode and essentially has a nervous breakdown and panics and their stats all hit rock bottom

[00:31:52] and it's, like, and when you're playing the game, it's one of these times where you're, you know, overwhelmed with these enemies. It's already, you're already struggling enough and I kind of, like, maybe hope you can rally against them and then, like, you'll have meltdown and your characters will go down and, like, bomb health and that's usually how you die, right? You know, it's because of, like, the mental breakdown rather than the physical breakdown. So it's an interesting, really interesting dynamic. And when Vault approached me about this and he said, like, if you heard of Darkest Dungeon, I was, like, yes,

[00:32:19] because I'd watched lots of playthroughs about how intensely difficult it was. But I hadn't played it because, like, I'm actually not that much of a gamer. Like, I do play games, but I'm not very good at them. I think I played, like, when I played Elden Ring in 2022, I think it took me about six months to complete it because I was just, like, that terrible at it. And, like, generally speaking, like, in recent years, like, my kind of, like, default speed for, like, a video game has been, like, day everything.

[00:32:49] Like, you know, like, I'd be dating Sims and things. So trying to play this being just really difficult, once this game, like, I booted up Darkest Dungeon 2 and spent, like, months just getting curb stomped by it, just getting my ass totally kicked. But, like, through the experience of being humiliated and humbled, a story idea formed, which was good. And so, yeah, in terms of the narrative of the story, like, I can't give too much away

[00:33:18] because they're keeping the story close to their chest. But I'll try and talk about Broadstrokes. Yeah. Yes, it's a sequel to Darkest Dungeon 2. Darkest Dungeon 2, spoiler alert for a several years old game. But it kind of ends in a hopeful note where the characters, through this journey to the mountain, have conquered their personal demons and became the best versions of themselves

[00:33:45] and, in turn, conquered the literal demons, which is encroaching upon the world and pushed them back. And kind of, like, things end on an optimistic note of the world is in the cusp of a brighter tomorrow and the evil isn't totally gone, but it's more under control. And similarly, like, you know, your own foibles and demons aren't totally gone, but you have a better grasp of them and you can, like, move forward, be healthy and not be haunted by these things that have defined you for however long these games have been going on. So it kind of breaks the loop with despair

[00:34:15] and sorrow and bleakness, which has been the world for this game. So in going into Darkest Dungeon, the comic book, I kind of went to explore ideas of recovery and healing and this idea of it's not a linear process where you can be better and you can be better equipped to deal with things, but it doesn't mean you're not going to have bad days, you're not going to, like, struggle, you're not going to, like, have days where things, you know, go back to how they were and how do you cope with that.

[00:34:46] So it's very much exploring these ideas of these people who have, like, you know, dealt with all these issues that have, like, defined them, but, and they're kind of moved forward. So they've always went off their own separate ways, they're living their own separate lives. Some of them are kind of, like, gone back to, like, their old communities and they became, like, you know, they've taken up new jobs, they've taken up, they've abandoned adventuring, they've abandoned questing. And it's, like, everyone's all kind of spread out far and wide.

[00:35:14] And what happens when an old loose end from the game is, like, an old enemy that wasn't quite resolved kind of resurfaces itself. And who among them is going to come back to deal with this and who among them is going to go, well, I've left that behind, that's not me anymore. And so this is kind of this initial tension point and it becomes, like, it's one thing to go on a quest, it's entirely nihilistic and everybody's broken, everybody's, like, an empty husk of despair. But what happens when you've got something to lose

[00:35:44] and you have a life that you have to leave behind? And then, so, like, that changes, like, the nature of the fear that's building up because there's a fear that comes from, like, facing your own, you know, purposelessness and a fear that comes from, like, I built something that might be taken away from me. So I wanted to explore that. And so, yeah, so, like, it's very much like a story. We built up a new mission, a new campaign, which broadly follows the structure of the games. Like, you have a Mac

[00:36:13] and you're trying to reach a certain destination, you have, like, certain stops along the way. And I'm trying to kind of, like, play with the mechanics and trying to replicate the experience of playing the game, which is, like, straightforward missions, but somehow take a left turn and become, like, increasingly unhinged and terrifying. I want to kind of do a lot of that. And, yeah, so it's been a lot of fun to play with. And it's been, like, an interesting challenge where, again, like, it's been really useful to have... And this isn't just, like, the company that owns the license,

[00:36:42] as is the case of Vampire and the Masquerade. In this case, it's literally the man who created Darkest Dungeon, Chris Barasa, has been in direct contact with the team and he's been able to go look over the story outline and have conversations and go, this is what I would do. This is what this character would do. And, like, this is, like, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko telling you about what Spider-Man would do. Like, you know, like... People that created it, like, so you have to, you know, like, they have the authority made below this better than anybody. It's a bit daunting where you have to then,

[00:37:12] like, kind of come up with a story and go, what do you think? The guy who, like, is the final word on it all. But he's actually in those two worlds and he's really been behind us and he's been, like, really kind of on board and engaged, which is good to know. And, yeah, like, and then it's funny because the artist for this project is Man House. And Man House, I've been a fan of his for a while. The only time I'd worked to him before was he did a variant cover for The Nasty back in the day. But, unrelated, without even having any inkling

[00:37:41] that I'd be working with him, I'd been talking in an art podcast. Honestly, it was TLDR podcast. And, like, they were talking about... Okay, yeah. And they were, like... Oh, and I said, I love Estuary. And I kind of just started waxing lyrical about how awesome Man House's artwork was on the whole underwater swimming sequence in the first Estuary of Estuary. And, like... And then, like, barely any time later, I was like, oh, by the way, Man House is the artist on this project. And I was like, what? So, like, seeing, like, his designs

[00:38:10] is interesting because I remember actually thinking of all we're going to have a real struggle coming up with an artist for this project because a big part of Darkest Dungeon is the super distinctive visual style and the character designs. So, it's like, how do you do a comic that's just not going to be that style when folk associate that style with the games? The Man House has been able to... But the Man House has been able to kind of, like, capture the spirit of that style but do it in something that's very much his own style and feels very distinct

[00:38:39] and very, like, much of the comics. So, I think it's going to be a great-looking comic. And I'm really excited to see it all take shape. That's awesome. Yeah, well, I can't wait. I think it looks very exciting. And I'm not familiar with Darkest Dungeon at all, but I was reading this, what the story was about, like, looking at the backer kit page and I'm just like, oh, this sounds like exactly, like, something I would, you know, enjoy. The idea of you, you know...

[00:39:09] I like the idea where stories are, you know, you think you've gotten to the quote-unquote happily ever after or you just defeat the bad guy and then you realize that, like, oh, we just have to go back to, like, our normal lives or there are all these, like, other things to do. You know, I think of... I'm a fan of musicals, but I think of, like, Sondheim's, you know, like, Into the Woods where, like, the first half of Into the Woods is, like, everybody getting together

[00:39:39] and trying to, you know, go up the beanstalk and, like, do all the stuff. But the second act of Into the Woods is, like, you know, what happens after and it's all the bad stuff. I mean, that continues to go on. It's this idea of, like, you know, this is the thing that will define you for the rest of your life and it has now happened and now what happens with the rest of your life. I mean, it's kind of like... Everyone makes fun of it. One of my favorite parts of the Lord of the Rings is when they go back to the Shire and they've got to just go back

[00:40:08] to the local pub and they've got to just be people again. Yeah. So that was the kind of dynamic I liked exploring in this game where you have, like... I mean, just as an example... Don't kill me, Vault. It's nothing to spoil it. But, like, for example, the Plague Doctor character and, like, the idea of, like, her story in the games is, like, someone who is on this quest to kind of, like, go to, like, the very trailblazing edge

[00:40:37] of medical discovery and, like, what can be found on the frontier of, like, cosmic horror and what can that inform us about, like, you know... She wants to be famous and acclaimed and, like, known as the greatest physician of her age and, like, and driven by these great kind of, like, terrible impulses and, like... And then, like, now, like, what happens when the mission's over and it's like, now I'm the village local doctor who's dealing with people who's, like, minor ailments, you know, and I'm content with that and I'm happy with that and maybe I don't want to go on the mission because I know, like,

[00:41:07] going back out into the frontier is going to kind of appeal to my vanity and bring out the worst in me again and I feel like I'm actually in a better place now than I was when I was doing that mission. So it's kind of a little, like, dynamic to play with. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. It sounds it. It sounds it. So, yeah, that'll be pretty exciting for folks who have backed that and then, you know, hopefully it's one of those things that once it's, you know, it's done, it'll be available, you know, in some form. Yeah.

[00:41:36] I can't speak to Burbault. Like I said, I've not privated the official plans but unofficially just based on what I've seen him do with previous campaigns, I would imagine that, like, there's, like, the deluxe, like, super cool, like, you know, textured covers and things will be exclusive to the campaign but the regular edition of the book will eventually find its way to, like, wide release in bookshops and comic shops right after the campaign's done. So, like, people will be able

[00:42:05] to get it other ways but, like I said, there is still a big incentive to back the campaign in terms of getting it first and also getting, like, lots of exclusives and extra content and editions that we'll be available elsewhere. Yeah, absolutely. And so, just a couple of other things because I think last time you were on we had touched on Kralgor and Shanks and then I was just curious as to where, like, you know, what's going on in the Sink universe? Yeah. Well, first off,

[00:42:35] Kralgor and Shanks we did our book to Kickstarter collecting an art double bill of stories on issues three and four and one nice volume and I can't remember if I'd talked about this at the time I think maybe it would be a bit too soon but I loved those two stories and, like, as much as I loved the first two stories of Kralgor and Shanks I think the book two the stories in that one are, like, a whole other level when the art team like, um, uh, Joe Mulvey and JP Jordan um, like, they're, like, clicking and they're just doing, like, they're really

[00:43:05] kind of came together and they're really kind of, like, feeling it now so the visuals are on the next level and I think the story um, feels like it's really kind of, fully grasped the concept of, um, murder mysteries and a high fantasy setting I feel like I'm really playing with that concept in fun ways now um, and it's like in the character dynamic of, um, Von Grogl or a kind of a jaunty dwarf tailor and, uh, Arlog Shanks as sullen orc steward the dynamics between the two of them really feels like it's popping now and it's really

[00:43:34] kind of, like, you know, in full flow so that campaign ran over the summer and it was a lot there was a couple of hold-ups for various reasons but the book is now entirely done and it's off to the printers and is fulfillment's underway so, if you were a backer of that project you should be getting your book within the next few weeks I would say hopefully, like I'd say by the end of November at least you will have it in your hands um, and so yeah I'm really excited about that and as for sync um, people are always asking about

[00:44:04] when the next sync is going to be and the next sync is coming soon I can't we've got a date provisionally set out but I don't want to say that date um, until it's officially confirmed but I will say before the end of the year um, the next sync campaign will be launching on Kickstarter um, it's called Sync Pineapple and the way I would pitch this story is it's a giallo murder mystery set in a sex dungeon uh, which is wait, wait, you said

[00:44:34] you said giallo so like Italian yeah black glove color yeah um, okay so, um, basically it's Kieran and Louise who were the fan favorite characters from issue 10 who had the kind of um, BDSM date night that went horribly wrong um, we checked back we checked back in on these characters um, where um, they finally kind of like overcame the trauma of that horrific home invasion um, and like you know like they're kind of

[00:45:04] they got the confidence back you know Kieran's confident about getting tied up without worrying that someone's going to bust into the house and kill them again um, so like they're moving forward and they're like okay now we want to try like and go back into our local community and our local kink scene and kind of meet people um, and so decided to kind of go off to like the local dungeon which is named Dungeon Fun after a Scottish comic book um, and so

[00:45:34] um, but when they go there it turns out that unbeknownst to them in the time that they've been away from the scene various figures in the community have been getting offed by a mysterious killer um, and this killer is descended upon the dungeon on this same night that they're all locked in there for the night and can't get out and it becomes like a kind of real wild kind of mystery with red herons and um, yeah, so, so much gore, lots of ass, um, I think it's like very much very much like my

[00:46:04] biggest strengths as an author um, and like, yeah, like, the artwork Alex has been doing for and it's been sublime he actually messaged me he's like this would have been done quicker but I've had to watch where I was drawn in in case there was anybody around because it's so filthy um, oh my god right, so, yeah, um, I think it's gonna be a treat it's gonna be, it's a double-sized um, edition so it's gonna be two issues worth it's like 48 pages or so of story plus a whole bunch of bonus content

[00:46:34] and, yeah, and like the cover art has been like moving various various variant covers in which are all varying degrees of smite and like hilarious um, and yeah, I think like the story is a blast about, I've said this before in one record saying that Ish Sink Thames when Keira and Louise first appeared is like my favourite issue of Sink one of my best, one of my favourite things I've written and this one feels like it's right up there with it, um, it manages to be, um, suspenseful, it works as a giallo I think, it's really kind of like drawing, like I'm riffing on

[00:47:04] Deep Red and also kind of like L-80s slashers like Terror Train and things like that I'm really kind of like drawing down my cultural references but also it's very funny, um, like I feel like it's like some of like the, like first like the visual language is like really funny, like there's like one specific sequence that Alex nailed where, um, in the script I wrote down, um, okay, this is a scene where they're all at the club and they're all dancing on like the kind of sex club dance floor but can you specifically draw that they're dancing badly

[00:47:33] rather than like, like, so, and I sent Alex as a visual reference a clip to the video from Charlie Brown Christmas where they're all kind of like doing like the dancing and doing the nativity played and like, so the show in that sequence came in and some of the most immersive, um, evocative bad dancing you've ever seen captured in the still medium of comics is in this sequence, um, so it's a very funny book, um, but also like, um, despite the, um, provocative subject matter

[00:48:03] I would say it's actually very romantic and sweet as well, um, so, like, people who liked Orla, um, and what's something with even less clothes involved, um, you can check out Sing Pineapple and you won't be disappointed, um, so yeah, um, I think that's going to be a lot of fun and I see that's going to be coming out, um, before the end of the year so watch for that on Kickstarter. If you want to, um, sign up to the campaign to be notified on launch, you can go to comics tribe, that's comics with an X, comicstribe.com forward slash

[00:48:32] sync and you can sign up to be like notified on launch. Yeah, okay, I'll have, I'll put the link in the show notes so folks can just go and click it. Look, all I'm, all I'm saying is this, if part of this campaign, maybe it's not possible, but if part of this campaign isn't a sync t-shirt that says so much gore, lots of ass, you're leaving money on the table. I think as a, I would just move that t-shirt just in general. I think I can capture my vibes. I would too. I would definitely,

[00:49:02] I'd go to my kid's school with a t-shirt that says so much gore, lots of ass. I mean, I would probably be swiftly escorted from the Catholic school building. My so much gore, lots of ass t-shirt is using lots of questions that are answered by the show. Yeah, exactly. One other thing I wanted to mention real, real quick because I checked the summer of

[00:49:31] 2025. And I don't know if it came up then, but I thought, I listened to a book last year around September or October of 25 that I thought you had posted on social media that was one of your favorite books. I could be wrong, but I thought it was you that mentioned The Fisherman by John Langan. Yeah. I listened to that as an audio book in September and I

[00:50:01] was kind of fascinated by it. But first off, because it was not at all what I expected. I went in totally blind, didn't read anything about it, just said, oh, I like John's stuff. And John was just talking about this was one of his favorite books. I said, oh, okay, it was available. And first off, listeners, if you don't know, I was fascinated by the structure of it. Because it's very interesting in terms of the structure of it.

[00:50:31] There's a fisherman, and a lot of it starts off with him and what he's going through with his wife and then another fellow that he meets and the tragedy that that fellow has gone through. And then so much of it is kind of told as this really long section when they're in a diner and hear this story about the pest. But it's just very,

[00:51:01] not strangely, but I cannot think of another book that I've read recently or listened to recently that is set up quite like that. That basically just has this huge flashback section where it's placed in it. I think more traditionally you would have section one, all about the past and then section two all about the present and the future. But the way it's done is because so much the bulk of the story essentially is, like you say,

[00:51:31] these characters are going off on this trip to this lake or wherever it is, I can't remember exactly, and it's like they stop off at the diner because of bad weather and someone tells them, well, you shouldn't go to that lake because here's the story of that lake. And then like, I'd say about 80% of the book is then just someone telling the story of what happened at the lake and the thing is, because it's done like that, you start to associate, this is separate from what's going on. So, you establish

[00:52:00] this as a story, this is the world, this is the boundary of this story. So when you go back to the present day and the past stuff starts leaking into the present day, it breaks down the barriers and starts to make you feel like this is unsafe and it starts to make you think, well, if the barriers between that story and the framing device can break apart, what's stopping like the barriers between the framing device and me as a reader sitting outside to hell in this story and breaking apart. it makes the book

[00:52:30] feel dangerous I think in certain ways, which is really compelling and unusual. Yeah, I agree. I felt like that was really effective. It was very uncomfortable, even listening to it. It was very uncomfortable. comfortable. I mean, it was well done, the narrator. I can't remember who it was, but it was fantastic. I'm sure that song used is actually an adaptive for film and I have no idea how they're going to do it

[00:53:00] because it so very specifically works as a book that I'd struggle to imagine how it'll work as a movie. Yeah, I couldn't even venture a guess. You could tell it just linearly or as a story or you could mix in the flashback and do whatever you want to do, but I agree. It loses something in the telling of it. Yeah, it loses something when that structure isn't there. But yeah, I thought it

[00:53:30] was fascinating. And that very ending of it is one of the most goosebump inducing things I've read in ages. Yeah, yeah. I mean, right up until the very end, I also didn't know the choices that the main character that we've been following all along that he was going to make. It was very interesting. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for that. It was a perfect September October read. I'm really happy about it.

[00:54:00] Weirdly enough, it makes me happy. people say like, oh, I've read your comic. I'm like, that's nice, thank you. When someone says I read a book that you told me to read, that makes me even happier. I saw a movie that you told me to watch, I'm like, yes! No, it makes you much more excited. So yeah, I wanted to mention that to you, that I was just fascinated by it. Like, totally, totally drawn in. Now I'm trying to think of something else I can recommend. If you've not read it before,

[00:54:29] although it's having something a moment now because it got a re-release, you might have read it already, but there's a book called Between Two Fires by Christopher Bielman. It's that kind of medieval folk horror, kind of Darkest Dungeon vibe in some ways. Okay. I have heard of it, but I have not read it yet. Yeah, absolutely excellent, terrifying, some of the most indelibly horrific imagery you'll find in a book. And Christopher Bielman, in general, is a really good writer.

[00:54:59] He has great voices and great sense of character. Someone will always be interested in checking this stuff out, so that's a strong recommendation. Okay, Between Two Fires, Christopher Bielman. All right, I just placed a hold on the audiobook through my library app through Libby, so I have it on hold there. So as soon as I get to it, I will let you know,

[00:55:28] because I've been making it a point the past two years to try and read more in addition to all the comics and graphic novels and everything I was trying to do that for the past couple of years and I was doing quite well. This year I've been terrible. I think I really read anything I read. Whalefall, which I like. I've not seen the movie yet. And I finally read Carrie after seeing the movie a hundred times. And now I'm reading a cycling romance book called Head Over Wheels.

[00:55:59] I thought it was a bit of light reading. Go pray for Halloween. I thought I'll just read a gentle romance book instead. I'm getting my horror films in movies. But yeah, but other than that, I've not read that much novel wise. So I need to get back with things. I love the Libby app for audiobooks just because driving to work, walking the dog, I can get through a lot. I just listened to for the first time. I'd never read

[00:56:28] Frankenstein before. Oh, when I did the books. Had no idea that I'd never like an even remotely faithful adaptation of Frankenstein? Generally, Frankenstein's my all-time favorite movie. I was shocked. Yeah, I mean, I first read it in university, either university or high school, and I've revisited it several times over the years. A couple years ago, I got a lush new edition of it, and I reread it again. I love the book, and generally

[00:56:58] I've seen all the adaptations, or most of the major adaptations. I saw the Universal one, I saw the Hammer one, I saw the Kenneth one, I saw the New Guelph one, and I like them all in various ways, but none of them has managed to fully capture the book. I don't think yet. Yeah, yeah. But I was trying to read some more horror related stuff right now. I just read Horror Movie by Paul Tremblay, which I thought was

[00:57:27] very interesting. I like Paul Tremblay. He also did The Cabin at the End of the World. Yeah. He did that one. did Knock That Cabin, yeah. Yeah, that's, I think, yeah, the one, I think M. Night Shyamalan or somebody adapted it to a movie and changed the title of it. But for something completely different, two books that I read recently that I really love, T.J. Clunes, The House in the Cerulean Sea, which is like a very

[00:57:58] cozy kind of fantasy book. It's about a, for lack of a better word, a social worker who works for the government who's in charge of monitoring orphanages for magical children. Yeah. And he goes to investigate this one place where they have some kids who for one reason or another haven't fared well in other places. And it's delightful and it is very sweet. And like

[00:58:28] I said all, I think like 53 times. But yeah, it was, it was, it's so well-written like T.J. Clune, just, it's a phenomenal book. And then I dipped my toe for the first time in Aussie crime fiction and read Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone and I really enjoyed that too. Yeah, yeah. I also did read Whalefall about a month or two ago as well. And that's a book

[00:58:58] I, I mean, the book is like horrifying. I mean, claustrophobic to say, you know, is it to say, to call it claustrophobic is an understatement with Whalefall. I enjoyed the book. Not a movie I think I could go see though. Yeah, it feels a bit too stressful. But I mean, I wanted to see it. I also, I suffer from philosophobia. Like I can't even watch whale documentaries if the camera goes underwater. Do you want to see someone get by whale? Nope. Nope.

[00:59:29] Can't. Austin Abrams has been through enough this past month without getting eaten by whale as well. But like, but yeah, for me, I'm not sure about you, but I'm getting super, especially with the UK release windows right now, I've been getting super stressed out with how much that, because one, generally speaking, October is the busiest month of the year for me. Like I'm kind of like, well, one, I'm writing a lot of stuff right now. I'm kind of trying to keep ahead of deadlines, but also it's like Halloween month, so like, I'm kind of trying to get decorations set up and get

[00:59:58] the house ready for like, because I'm the guy who does the clothes man for Halloween, like, you know, has like all the decorations set up in the garden and trick-or-treaters lined up at the door and I host a big party for everybody, so I'm kind of doing a lot of prep for that, which is taking up a lot of time. And this is the month of the year and it seems like everything's coming out at once. Like I had Whalefall and Street Fighter came out in the same week last week, and I went to see Street Fighter, which sucked balls, and I was angry at it for being a

[01:00:28] bad movie, I was actually angry at it because I chose not to see Whalefall to see this, and then I won't get a chance to see Whalefall because I saw this. And then, so that's annoyed me, so I was already stressed out, I was trying to find time to catch up and see Whalefall, then this week, simultaneously again, Clayface and Wildwood the new Ica, they both came out the same week, and I'm like, fuck, this is like, there's not two movies I'm not going to get a chance to see now, and then I'm trying to write numbers in my head about what possible time in the

[01:00:58] next week I'll be able to get to see any of these movies. Then I'm looking ahead to the following week, the 30th, where Plane Time gets its UK release, and I'm like, shit, I've got to see that as well. So, yeah, I'm getting stressed there, but there's too many movies, not enough time to see them. Yeah, well, I mean, you have to pick and choose, I think, at some point. I've heard much better things about Wildwood than they have Clayface, so, you know, if that helps. But the

[01:01:28] thing is, as well, when you don't get to see a movie in open weekend, or whatever, and then you start reading all these stories, but this movie has flawed. This is officially a failure because two days in it's not broken box office records, and I feel like, I kind of get this, because I have an anxious disposition, so I can feel every time I read these, it's like, Digger has flopped to the box

[01:02:01] because you personally let them down by not going to see that movie. It's all your fault. It's all your fault, John. I mean, it's, but, you know, I understand having an anxious disposition, you know, it is also that studio executives or venture capitalists that invest in those types of things, or the shareholders, or, you know, whoever it might be, like, just the expectations are, like, insane for

[01:02:31] what is a successful movie. I think I love it self-inflicted as well, because it used to be the idea of, this movie is not going to do great at the box office, but it's a sound investment because it'll make its money back in home video in a few months, whatever. That doesn't exist anymore because we've got you the home video market, so it has to be like a massive hit right out the gate. Right. But when we start seeing all these articles and trades and things, talking about a movie

[01:03:01] flopping, before it's even had its white release, they were talking on Wednesday or Thursday night, and this movie is tracking the underperforming at the box office, but it's not released yet, how can a movie be a flopping, it's not out yet, it just baffles me. Yeah, I wonder, has anyone looked at if that has any influence? I think it does, I think if someone says this movie is going to stink, this movie is going to be a loser, folks don't want to go see it, because they think I'd rather see something that's going to be a winner.

[01:03:31] But not even bad reviews, whether or not just saying that a movie is going to underperform has the effect of people not going to see it. because they know, yeah, one, it can be like, well, that's not a buzz movie, I'd rather go see the movie that everyone else is seeing rather than seeing the movie that's not still, but also it can be, oh, if that's going to be, if that's underperforming, I guess it'll be on home video in the next two weeks, so we'll bother going

[01:04:01] to see it. Yeah, I'll just watch it at home and I want to spend $50 for popcorn and a soda. Yeah, exactly. Well, if you check out any Paul Tremblay books or anything else, let me know. I'll let you know what I think about Between Two Fires. But listeners, look, if you haven't read The Nasty or Orla, get on it. I'll try and put some links

[01:04:31] in the show notes, but you can follow John on social media and get links to all of his stuff. But Darkest Dungeon, the when you're listening to this, the backer kit will probably be over, but be on the lookout. I'm sure at some point it'll probably be in the direct market because it seemed to be doing very well. Vampire, the Masquerade, Wake in Hate is going to be out from Titan Comics November 11th.

[01:05:00] If you backed Grawl Gore and Shanks, you should be getting your books soon and then look for the sometime at the end of the year. I'll give you the link for Comics Tribe. Next Sink book should be out before the end of the year. And hey, maybe even with t-shirts. Yeah. You'll get booked. Yeah, yeah, that'd be I'd wear it. I'm just saying. I would too. All right. Well, John, thank you so much for coming on

[01:05:30] the podcast today. I really appreciate it. Well, thank you much for having me. It's always appreciated to get in and chat again. I'll do it again soon. Yeah, absolutely. Listeners, thank you so much for listening. Rate, review, tell your friends, do all the stuff they say to do for podcasts. It really helps. And if you don't like listening to us, you can also watch us because we put the videos on YouTube and you get to see me stress blink for 45 minutes or so. And if you see Jimmy at convention, go up and tell me listen to the podcast. That means

[01:06:00] a lot. Yeah, please. One person has done it. Thank you, Adam. So, absolutely. I would like that. But listeners, thank you so much for listening. Good night and I'll see you next time. Jimmy is too humble to do this. So as his stalwart ride or die, I wanted to tell you about his new graphic novel, Penny and the Yeti with artist Amber Aiken. What started as a comic short with his daughter that I've known about for ages now and it's evolved and has become one of those annoying

[01:06:30] can't talk about it in comics things for too damn long. Yes, I'm predisposed to be supportive but after reading an advanced copy of it, I have to admit it's way better than I anticipated. No shade but it's really good. Remarkably so. Does it have a Yeti? Yeah. Is it cute and adorable? Yeah. But it straight flies in effectively tapping into the all-too-familiar family dynamics that we all are facing in 2026 and approaching it in a way that doesn't insult the book's target audience.

[01:07:00] Kids! They are way smarter and perceptive than we adults give them credit for so I really appreciated Jimmy's narrative approach tapping into his own experiences as a dad and a spouse. I can hear his wife saying get off your phone Jimmy through the pages. She's gonna kill me for saying that. It's hitting shelves on April 21st and I dropped a link in the show notes where you can pre-order a copy today. Yeti or not here we come with Penny, Perry, Fenton, Maxine, and the magical, mythical, magnificent Yeti.

[01:07:30] On behalf of us both, we appreciate your support. This is Byron O'Neal, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner, brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the Cryptid Creator Corner,

[01:08:00] maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast, Into the Comics Cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.