Kasey Iris Interview - Ghoul

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[00:00:54] As we wrap up spooky season, I know, it's terribly sad, I have one last incredible book to put on your radar that I discovered this year. It's haunting, it's heartfelt, and it has one of the most unique creature presentations that I've seen in a long, long time. So it is my pleasure to introduce first-time guest Casey Iris on with me to talk about her debut YA graphic novel Ghoul from Top Shelf.

[00:01:21] Casey, as we record it, it's Halloween week, so what's your costume choice for this year? Myself. I don't have a costume this year. Maybe I can say my character Lynn just to be on topic. Because she is a representation of my younger self, so let's just say that. Okay. We'll go with that. Do you have a costume? So are you a Dungeon Crawler Carl fan? That's my caveat here.

[00:01:50] I've only read the big, like, halfway through the first book, so no, I haven't finished it. Okay. Well, then you would not have gotten to the character that I'm going to portray for Halloween. So that, I won't ruin anything and elaborate, but the character is called Uzi Jesus, so... Oh, is it from, is he from the first book, the second book? No, I think he shows up for the first time in the fifth or the sixth book. Oh, I have a long way to go.

[00:02:20] Yeah, yeah, it'll be a while before you get to Uzi Jesus, but he's a very memorable character. As you might imagine, given the title. I mean, they have the graphic novels, so... Yeah. Maybe eventually it'll lead, because I did read the graphic novel, so... Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, and I think they just announced that it's going to be serialized coming out in January in comic form, too? Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:47] So, I mean, it's amazing how much Dungeon Crawler Carl has sort of taken over fandom lately. Yeah, because didn't he write it a while back? It came out a while back. Yep, and we used to live in Gig Harbor, which is his hometown, so I was actually... Oh! Yeah, an arts commissioner in Gig Harbor for a while, so it's kind of a... Not my hometown, but his hometown, but we lived there for seven years, and it's going to always be like a home, so...

[00:03:16] It's always nice to see somebody local, you know, make it out. And Gig Harbor's a small town. There's only like 20,000 people, so it's... Oh, yeah. Are you like, this is where he lives? Like, making out? Yeah, well... Yeah, I'm one of... Well, my best friend's... This is a weird story. Tangent, but my best friend's wife used to coach cheer with Matt's wife. So, they are friends. Whoa, what?

[00:03:45] Yep, yep. She's got a bookmark. I guess he used to do caricature drawings of like people's pets, like cats and dogs. So, she's got a bookmark that Matt made for her. So, that's a bit of a keepsake for sure these days. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Well, before we turn everybody off, we'll shift from... They're like, what? What's going on? Yeah, they're like, what did we get into? I thought this was cool. And here's Matt. So, let's do it. Yeah.

[00:04:16] That would really pull people in. Hi, here's Matt Deniman. Surprise. But for... Cool. For every book I cover, I'm looking for kind of a celebratory moment. And that standout thing that just makes it absolutely memorable. Here, it's just how creepy this is without really feeling like a true horror project, right?

[00:04:39] So, it reminded me of being a kid and watching things like The Addams Family or The Space Giants that were just strange. Does that make sense? Does that resonate? Yeah. I love that you said that because I do love The Addams Family and I grew up with watching it and also like Tim Burton films. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the spooky stories, but not like too horror.

[00:05:10] Okay. Or even like when I watched Coraline, I remember bringing this girl that was babysitting to go watch it because I thought it'd be fun, you know? And then her mom called me the next day like, what movie did you watch yesterday? I was like, um, Coraline. She's like, oh, because my daughter's been having nightmares. And it did not occur to me that it was something scary. And I guess people have different levels of what they find scary or not. Yeah.

[00:05:38] Um, so yeah, when I wrote Cool, like I didn't have the intention of it being super scary or spooky. I just wrote like what I thought would be fun and like what I enjoy watching and reading as I was growing up. So, yeah, that's how it turned up like a little bit spooky, but not too horror. So, Casper is in, but Chainsaws are out. Is that what I'm hearing? Oh, yeah. Casper. I love Casper.

[00:06:07] You can kind of tell like near the end to big reveal. Like it's very much Casper-esque. Yeah. Well, in terms of that progression, this started out as a school project in 2018, if I'm understanding correctly, with very simple. It's interesting that you mentioned Tim Burton because that's certainly something that I got out of, out of that initial project. So it's like Tim Burton meets Red Riding Hood analog, basically, from my reading of it.

[00:06:36] And, you know, I'm assuming then you graduate. Okay, I got to be a real cartoonist now. And you're flush with so many ideas that it all becomes very overwhelming. So kind of connect the dots from that original project to how this ended up being a graphic novel. So, one of my instructors from comic school, his name is Dan Dottche, he always has this project every year.

[00:07:03] I think for second year students, which is create your own version of Little Red Riding Hood. And I couldn't really think of a nuanced way or a new way to tell the story. So I thought, why not just tell the story how it is, but just change the style. And I really loved Tim Burton, as we said. So I just changed Little Red Riding Hood as a skeleton.

[00:07:29] And then I was thinking like, should I keep the wolf as a wolf or should I create another character? And so I started to play around with like different shapes. I thought about, you know, Jack Skellington, the long limbs. And I really like also the Grinch, his fingers. You know how like it's so long and pointy. So I took that.

[00:07:56] And then I'm kind of scared of bugs, especially cockroaches. So I gave him antennas for that too. And I just like played around with it until I liked how he looked. And I drew him a bit bulky at first. I think it's in a page in Ghoul near the end with the sketch. I'm not sure. But yeah, and I really like how Ghoul turned out.

[00:08:22] So I wanted to reuse his character into a long form story. And I was in third year, which is like the last year of comic school. And my other instructor, Douglas Klauba, he said, so I know that your goal, like one of your goals in being an artist is to be a graphic novelist. So why don't you start now? And I said, well, we have other projects.

[00:08:51] And he said, no, you know, I'm going to give you the space to start your graphic novel, like start writing it, start drawing things out. So it actually started before I finished school. Okay. And at that time, like the script was totally different from how it ended up now. But yeah, it was Doug's push that got me to start to write Ghoul. Okay.

[00:09:19] Yeah, I really connected with it in a way that I think few books have this year. And I think there's at least some parallel here because I think you, this was more of a COVID lockdown project for you. And during the lockdown, I lost one of my own dear friends and he was sort of that. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. He was just an invincible figure. He was the one that survived everything the world threw at him. And when I got the news that he died in this freakish motorcycle accident, I was devastated.

[00:09:48] I kept thinking about him while I was reading this. I had a dream about him actually the other night after rereading it. And, you know, anybody who knows that, that sense of loss that leaves kind of a hole in your heart, you know, so what, what made you want to tackle grief and loss as the primary narrative thread? So when I first started writing this script, I, I just thought of what are fun things that I like?

[00:10:15] And I was really struggling with honing it down to the final draft. And so it was during COVID. So I had a lot of time to think and I was going through some hard things, just reflecting and going through all emotions. And I was like, why don't I just translate those emotions into the story? Maybe it'll turn into something. Okay.

[00:10:38] So, um, I was, I knew that Lynn was supposed to be this character that's very angsty and like, she's not super angsty in the book, but sometimes it comes out when she's talking to her parents. Um, but I wanted to give her a reason to be so closed off. And so I thought of my own friend that passed away a few years prior to me writing the script

[00:11:06] and I wanted to, you know, kind of give her a name in the book, which I did use her real name. Um, and yeah. And then I, I just lost my uncle too, like few years before that. And then my grandpa during COVID. So it was like a lot of loss. And I started thinking about also my friends and their relationships.

[00:11:32] And so, um, I kind of implemented that, like kind of the complicated relationships with their dads. That's, I don't know, like a lot of my friends have that. Um, personally, I have a great relationship with my own dad, but I wanted to kind of show that and represent people who are going through that in the book and kind of giving them a, um,

[00:11:59] a resolution or not resolution, something where it's a bit of a healing between a child and a father that they might not have in real life. But maybe giving them hope, like maybe, maybe that'll happen down the line. Um, so yeah, it's a bunch of different things, but it was not planned when I went into writing cool. Yeah. I'm really impressed with how you managed to deftly inject it with joy, you know?

[00:12:29] And, uh, it's one of the funny things because loss, you know, can weigh very heavily on you. But every time I think of him, I don't know, I just end up smiling. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think one of the best gifts that one human can give another is understanding. And that is exactly what I felt from this, you know, kind of given my own medical condition, I couldn't get to his funeral. Uh, so I connected oddly with, with Mr. Cho in that way.

[00:12:59] So thank you for that. I really appreciate it. I'm glad that you connected with it. I, Mr. Cho, I would say is my favorite character. Um, yeah, I definitely connected with him the most. I don't know what that says about me, but. I don't, like for me, oh, I don't really connect with him just cause I, I never went through what he went through.

[00:13:23] But, um, just from people I've met or characters I've watched or read about that sort of character was always my favorite. The misunderstood, but, you know, deep down, like hidden is some pain and loss. So that's always my favorite type of character. So did you have a Mr. Cho in your life, in your childhood?

[00:13:49] No, but I did have a neighbor when I was writing it that, um, I rarely saw come out of the house. Like he literally lived next door, just like Mr. Cho did. And then he actually passed away before I finished the script, which was sad and very shocking. Um, but yeah, a lot of death. A lot of death. I mean. Yeah.

[00:14:16] Kind of on that topic and it is, it is dark, but I think it's, it definitely merits talking about, you know, suicide is an even more delicate topic, especially with teen audience here. So it takes a lot of care, you know, comfortable probably isn't the right word, but what guided your choices about how much to show, you know, and what to leave the reader with?

[00:14:40] Um, well, when I showed Megan in the story in the beginning and I just gave a glimpse of, oh, she passed away. And then later, um, when Lynn has that conversation with auntie, she just said, um, she couldn't handle it anymore. And I just left it with those words. Like I didn't want to be too literal with it. Yeah.

[00:15:05] Um, and I'm not sure with my choice of why I didn't keep continue, like why I didn't revisit, um, sort of Megan's death and her role in Lynn's life. Maybe it's my own, um, my own experience with it. And maybe I haven't fully dealt with it yet, but, um, yeah, I didn't really talk about Megan except in the beginning and end. Right.

[00:15:35] Yeah. But there's, there's these kind of beautiful moments of symbolism that are in the book. You know, the color palette is reduced to a magenta purple tone throughout that color is classically symbolic of a fight against suicide, honoring survivors to acknowledge the pain and the loss. Was that, was that part of the plan from the beginning or did you just have an aha moment that you're like, oh, we're going to go with purple? No, I didn't plan it.

[00:16:03] I just liked the color purple and pink. Okay. Um, later on when I started painting, I just realized like, oh, actually it really fits the theme. Um, but no, it wasn't planned at all. I'm, I'm definitely scared of color, which is funny because the whole thing's in color. But, um, Chris from Top Show said, I think it should be fully in color because I did pitch it to be in black and white because I can finish it much quicker. Yeah.

[00:16:32] But I, I think, yeah, he was right. It really, um, added to the story. What scares you about color? I'm just not very, um, confident in it. Like my choices. I will like, I, I've posted some of my progress videos on Instagram and if you kind of pause or slow it down, you can see I'm going back and forth between different colors and I feel like it's, it's very time consuming.

[00:17:00] I mean, unlike some people, I think they're more confident. Okay. I'm going to use this color with this color. Well, I mean, I use like a hundred different combinations until I, I say, okay. And sometimes I go back to the very first, you know, color palette. So it's very, just takes a lot of time and I feel like I should move on from the color. We'll go to the next page. I got stuff to do. Yeah. Stuff's in page 20. I have 300 more to go, you know? So, yeah.

[00:17:31] I think you actually tackled the hardest way to dive into coloring your own work though, by picking a single color because it, it really pulls out nuances and shading. And I think that was definitely a standout aspect of the book for me was just being able to use that. So I was like, oh, she's, she's clearly very comfortable with color. I mean, she just went with one and that, that takes a lot of guts.

[00:17:58] Well, I tricked you because I was not, I was very scared, but yeah, it was fun. And I feel like now I, I've learned from ghoul to know what I might do in another book, what I might do differently. But yeah, I don't know. I'm a lot. I'm at a loss for it. I know. That's quite all right. Well, the ghoul is a creature.

[00:18:27] You came up with the character back in school. So your fascination has clearly continued. We talked about some of the, the Tim Burton influence here, but as a character, a ghoul, the, the Western culture, a ghoul is a corpse eater, is an outcast. And I find it really fascinating the, the shift when you start talking about Filipino folklore, you know, it's a, I think the, the closest match might be a Berbalung.

[00:18:53] Um, but you know, the book, it's grieving friend feels close to a, a molto. So I don't, I mean, I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting more used to my, my Filipino mythology here, but you know, without giving anything away, how are you threading some of those cultural ideas together with this imaginary friend trope? Um, I find Lin separate from ghoul, actually.

[00:19:21] Lin, since ghoul is its own entity and it, and I took him from a, from my Red comic years prior and that was not connected to any Filipino folklore. So, um, Lin's culture is very separate from ghoul. But then, as you said, um, ghoul in Western cultures are corpse eating monsters.

[00:19:47] And that's why I like to play around with, oh, what if I make him super, you know, positive and goofy and something the opposite. And it kind of hints at the reveal later in the end, like, oh, that's why he acted in that way, you know? Right. So maybe it's a little foreshadowing of that. Okay. Okay. Well, trace was my first exposure to the Aswang and, you know, I'm kind of fascinated by how

[00:20:14] differently it works with those, you know, uh, Filipino versus Western counterparts. Cause here they're very much embedded in a community as I understand it. You know, the Aswang are not outcasts, you know, it's very much a, a cultural belief of like, they live in your house. They are around you. They surround you, you know? So you were born in Hong Kong and raised near Chicago. So how much of your own life did you put in the book?

[00:20:41] Um, a lot of Lynn, um, that's from my life. Like she's an only child. I'm an only child. Her parents are basically my parents. The dad is my dad with hair because he doesn't have hair. Um, and the way how she acted back then is, I think that's how I acted. That's why like some people say like, oh, she, it's not a young adult book because it didn't tackle very young adult themes, like maybe partying or things like that.

[00:21:11] But like, personally, I didn't, I think I was very innocent at that age. And so she was very much representative of how I was at that age. Okay. Um, and then Ghoul is just my imaginary friend. I believe like some, he would say things that I wish someone would say to me, or I feel like in the back of my mind, someone is saying that to me. Um, and the neighbors are very much my neighbors that I live with.

[00:21:40] They don't look exactly the same, but, um, each one of them do represent each of my neighbors and the apartment building, um, is very much my apartment building. Basically everything in the book, except for the magical aspects were from my life, I think. What, you didn't have a snake lady in your... Not that I know them, but I am suspicious. Uh, yeah.

[00:22:08] It actually, she was actually supposed to be a spider lady. Okay. But it's a funny story because when I say, I'm deathly afraid of spiders. Like that's my number one fear. So I would look at photos of them and get really creeped out. But, um, maybe I should post the original drawings because they're very frightening. Um, but I don't know if I manifested it through my stories and my drawings, but I started seeing

[00:22:36] more spiders in my room where I was drawing the comic. So I was like, I need to change it. So I changed them to snakes and hopefully no snakes would appear. Um, but I... I don't think so. Not too many in the Chicago area. I don't know. Probably not. And, um... It's not Australia. Oh, no. Um, and... Oh, yeah. And Auntie is... I think she's...

[00:23:03] She represents a part of me that I'm afraid to become because there are parts of her where um, it's very much from myself, like, um... Where she feels like she needs to become more of... I don't know how to... Maybe like, um... How would you explain? Like feminine power, but like toxic femininity.

[00:23:32] Where you feel like I need... I am above everyone else or I should work alone. Um, I don't need anyone else. And that's something that's very dangerous to get into. And I think, like, during COVID, that was a time when, like, oh, I don't have anyone around me. Maybe I don't need anybody. Or, you know... A darker... Darker thought to get into during that time. Yeah.

[00:24:00] I think everybody did a lot of self-reflection during that time. Mm-hmm. And just evaluating. And especially... Because we had to... We've gotten so accustomed to being online and integrating and interacting in that way that when you're faced with yourself, as all of us were during that time, yeah, I think just exploring some of those aspects of ourselves that maybe we weren't as comfortable with or coming to grips with, well, maybe that is who I am.

[00:24:29] Uh, so it's very interesting to hear you kind of channel that through your work. Yeah. Well, you mentioned in another interview that the struggle was there with not presenting being Filipino enough, you know? Oh, yes. Yeah. I think it's really common as creatives to feel that pressure, you know, to put your culture on your back, even as the middle-aged white guy in the room.

[00:24:55] It's somebody from the deep South, you know, I still kind of feel that. So how did you eventually find that balance for yourself, if indeed you did? I don't know if I found the balance, but I know that I was very true to myself with the completion of the book because at first I was like, okay, Lynn's family's Filipino.

[00:25:21] So I started looking up pictures or asking my Filipino friends, like, what is in your house? So I can draw that in the book. But, um, I felt like that wasn't very true to myself. And I thought, you know, I'm just, I'm just going to implement Tagalog, the language. Yeah. And that will be a way for her to represent her culture and how her parents interact. And it doesn't matter what the house looks like.

[00:25:51] That doesn't change, you know, what they are. And, um, yeah, because my house did not look Filipino. If you walk in, there's no giant, you know, fork and spoon hanging on the wall. Um, there's no rattan chairs that most Filipinos have in their house. Like, it's very much a modern house. So, um, I think it's just the way how she interacts with her parents.

[00:26:16] And that's how I kind of represent the culture and how I personally, you know, live life as a Filipino American. Sure. I always think of it as food because my, um, my son's godmother, our best friend, uh, is Filipino and, uh, her dad would always Thanksgiving coming up. It just sort of reminds me of the, of the food because he would always, you know, fix, uh,

[00:26:45] there's a, I don't know exactly what it's called. Forgive me, but there's a, like a glass noodle dish. Um, yes, yes, yes. That's it. That's exactly it. I love absolutely. It's absolutely delicious. So I always associate it with food because they certainly don't have, they were know, as you said, forks or spoons. I don't even know what that is. You know, um, but do you have like a, a family comfort food?

[00:27:15] Um, I do like pancit, but my dad mostly makes adobo or senegang, which is a sour soup. And in goal, I did draw an adobo dish where when they have dinner with Mr. Cho. So yeah, I love Filipino. Have you seen the Cameron Diaz meme? No, I have not. She had an interview. Oh, I'll send it to you. Okay, cool. Yeah.

[00:27:41] Basically, she says like, I grew up with a lot of Filipinos and she does it with the accent. Oh, nice. I would butcher if I try to do it. I would just absolutely butcher it. So, um, well, I was thinking about that. The, the role that Lynn's mom plays, you know, saying it's basically your mom. You know, I've been reading, uh, Shelley Bond's book, a hundred facts on making comics, which talks about the distinction between dialogue or what your character says and voice or how they say it.

[00:28:10] And it really helped me feel like I was reading something with much more clear intention, you know, with that, that cultural context with Lynn's mom, you know, was, was there ever a fear of, you know, putting Tagalog in, in this story and like throwing the reader out or, you know, Hey, this is just the cultural presentation that I'm going with. Let him deal with it.

[00:28:36] Yeah, I think I was, um, worried that it would throw people off cause it'd be hard to read, like going back and forth with the glossary or whatever, trying to think, Oh, what does that word mean? And, um, I tried the best I could to kind of give context clues. So maybe they could kind of guess, um, what that word might mean. And, um, when they were editing goal, they actually gave me the, uh, like top shelf.

[00:29:05] They gave me, um, the feedback, like you should put the English translation, like smaller and at like with an asterisk and smaller somewhere on the page. So originally it didn't have those, um, translations within the same page of the Filipino word. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just thought, um, I don't know. I just make, like, I tried to make it as clear as I could.

[00:29:31] And if they're thrown off and they're thrown off, you know, not everything is everyone's cup of tea, but I felt like, um, I did the best I could with it. And I was very honest with how the story plays out and how, um, the language played a role in the story. I absolutely loved it. And it reminded me. Yeah. Yeah. It reminded me of my mom. Oh, your mom. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[00:29:57] Um, some of the exact same, you know, phrases, only the Southern version of it. Oh yeah. Well, it's funny cause I live back and we moved back to the South a couple of years ago and I had been out for a very, very long time and people always comment, Hey, you don't seem like you have an accent. And apparently I've, my wife is very quick to point out that it has resurfaced now that we live here again, but, um, I can barely understand my mom. So what do you mean? Like how she speaks or why she thinks?

[00:30:27] Yeah. Well, there's the, the odd phrasing, you know, cause there are Southern isms. They always have a very interesting phrasing. There's that and the draw because I'm not used to the draw. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm so fascinated with the South. Yeah. With what? The South. Oh, why? What's, what's curious about this? It's just different, you know? It is. Yeah.

[00:30:53] And, um, I did live in Arkansas, which is not too South, but I lived there for a year and a half. So that was a very interesting time. That was when I first moved to the States. Um, and. Oh wow. I was like the only colored person in school. Um, but yeah, that was very interesting time and it was a lot of fun. Yeah. It's, uh, it's fascinating to be somebody from the South and to not, to have these very

[00:31:24] partitioned experiences of what you would consider rural South. And then something that was very much not, um, I'm going to get off on a short tangent here, I guess, but, um, because both my, my grandparents, you know, rural farming, um, my grandfather or grandmother had 190 acre farm and grew tobacco and cattle. And like most of our food came from this five acre farm, um, that, that they had to just

[00:31:53] like where we got almost everything. And then on the other hand, I grew up in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, which was just very unique place where we had three nuclear power plants. And so both my parents were public school teachers and like all of my best friends, both of their parents had PhDs in like physics or astrophysics. And, you know, my best friends were from Madrid and Taiwan and, you know, um, Burma at the time.

[00:32:23] Um, yeah. So it was, it was just a very, very odd way to grow up, you know, kind of these two, you know, very traditional and completely non-traditional ways. It feels like you have a very colorful, like growing up. I get that a lot. Yeah. I get color. Colorful is probably attributed to me more than anything. But it's nice because, um, you have a lot of exposure and you get to know a lot of people

[00:32:51] with different backgrounds and it creates that empathy, I think. And it makes you better at conversations and getting to understand people. Well, hopefully, you know, for you. Yes. I think so. Hopefully for other people too. Yeah. I hope so. But visually, there's a, there's a bit of a chaos gremlin as this is this very, very dense work. As somebody who's also a visual artist, whose whole aesthetic is minimalism, it's a lot. Yeah.

[00:33:20] But I never got lost. And I think that reduced color palette really works for me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you've got three dominant forms basically happening here. You've got the people, um, who have more of that, you know, manga kind of influence to, to their, to them. And especially the facial expressions. You've got the ghoul who's like humanoid and linear, but has those bug accents that you are very much uncomfortable with.

[00:33:50] And then you have the white snake is kind of competing on the page. So you've got this trinity of visual shorthand. So walk me through making this fit and kind of interact harmoniously. Um, I don't know how it worked out harmoniously, but I did grow up drawing like more realistically. And I played around with a lot of different styles.

[00:34:17] Um, also like manga I drew, well, I tried to like copy my favorite mangas during high school and trying to remake the pages they were making. And I just kind of, I guess, meld all the different styles that I grew up drawing.

[00:34:37] Um, I also love painting and, um, with ghoul, I wanted it not to be too like technical. I don't know how to say, but like not technical looking, not too clean lines. Um, something more maybe, um, rough around the edges of it. But I wanted to feel like it was made by hand because originally I wanted, like I drew some

[00:35:07] of the pages on paper and I wanted to paint on paper, scan it. But I feel like the colors and the lines didn't turn out the way I wanted it to. So I had to get an iPad and actually teach myself on Procreate. So a lot of the first pages, um, it was me trying to figure out Procreate and, um, figuring out which brushes to use. And I don't, I don't want to use the ink brush.

[00:35:36] I used like a pencil brush so that it looks more organic that way. I wanted it to feel like you, you were holding a book in your hands and maybe like someone just scribbled on the page in a, on itself and not something that was mass produced. So, um, yeah, I used like kind of brushes that, um, I mean, like tried to show painterly lines.

[00:36:06] Like, um, also, um, oh yeah, I don't know where I'm going. I lost my son. No, it's okay. It's, it's very fascinating because it feels like a whole artist journey. It's so hard to talk about it. Yeah. But yeah, there's, there's a clear evolution of process kind of from student to professional that it feels like anyway, with this project that you've, you've gone through. Is that, does that feel accurate or? I still feel like a student.

[00:36:34] I tell people when they ask like, aren't you so excited your book's out? I'm like, it feels like a school project that happens to be out in the world. So that's how I feel about it. Um, I get it. It's, it's just interesting because for me, it feels very, very confident. Um, the visual density that I was talking about to be able to understand how these things

[00:36:58] interact and, and especially also with the lettering because the lettering is my mind, very complex, but so well done to understand how those things will connect and layer, especially on a page. So I, I don't know. I thought my perception, it was, it was very confident and very well done. So that may not be how you felt. I'm glad it comes off that way. But yeah.

[00:37:25] And if, if, if I understand both your parents are also architects. Uh, so how, how did that influence you as an artist? Well, they're both retired now, but, um, how did it influence me? Well, I did go to school for interior design or like college and that was also a very eyeopening time because I did not enjoy it.

[00:37:50] And it kind of further pushed myself to pursue illustration and comic arts. Cause ever since I was younger, that's what I did love. Um, but I guess something I did learn during that time and in architecture is like, um, maybe color theory, um, balance a bit.

[00:38:14] I know like it looks out of balance, but sometimes it's kind of like chaotic organization where I'm like, oh, I should add this piece here and this page will feel more balanced. Um, I think that's in my own crazy mind, but, um, yeah, not much of the architecture was in that. It wasn't really translated in that, but I guess maybe like subconsciously something did. I did use some skills from there.

[00:38:45] Yeah. We're always going to pick little tidbits up here and there from everything we do. I was actually an interior design major for a while. Oh, we were. Did you finish? I still love it. No, it's still, it's still absolutely a passion, but, uh, I had a very odd experience with it because it's kind of the inverse at that time. Cause I'm older. Um, the sort of sexism in a very different way, because if you were an art, an architecture student, it was predominantly men.

[00:39:15] And if you were an interior design is predominantly women. And so I found myself sitting in a classroom, there's intro classes with like 200 people in it. And the professor saying, well, you girls know what I'm talking about. And I was like, this is weird. Excuse me. Yeah. So I sort of shifted and ended up doing, uh, landscape design, which I did also didn't finish. I've had a lot of majors, but my, my actual degrees are in anthropology and environmental science. Oh, wow. Yeah. Go figure. Yeah.

[00:39:46] Yeah. Yeah. But we, yeah, we pick up anyway, these pieces from the things that interest us and inevitably they get injected into our work. The reason I was curious about the architecture specifically was just because of the snake, um, because it has such a strong silhouette value. And it's a bit of a cheat code is this organic element to move the reader's eye about the page.

[00:40:08] You know, the, the coils kind of create this, I would describe as a visual containment field and it's so interactive for Lynn to respond to emotionally in a way that I don't see with most creatures, you know, monsters in books. Because most of the time you encounter a monster, it means you're dead, you know, and, and in this way, it's very, very personal. And you're also using, uh, the snake as like a word balloon, which is so good. Oh yeah. I really, really, I love that.

[00:40:37] So did you plan on the snake as a layout tool from the jump or did you sort of discover the, the capabilities while you were drawing? I did plan on her, um, being a layout tool just cause I do, um, I do like using curvature and different lines to kind of move text around so that not just straight. Yeah.

[00:41:04] Um, so yeah, I did want to play around with the snake's shape and how it interacts with the people in the surroundings and the text just to, so to make the, um, the page more vibrant and more like action packed maybe. Okay. Does the snake ever get tired of being the group chat? Emblem? No. It loves the attention.

[00:41:30] What's that, uh, drawn from a specific legend or is it your own creation? Cause there's the, I think it's, it's more of a Hong Kong thing with the, the, the, you know, the Madam White Snake. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted her to be the Madam White Snake. Well, I did kind of research a little bit cause I knew I wanted her to be a snake, but I knew that I wanted to pull from her being, you know, Hong Kong or Chinese.

[00:41:57] So I found the White Snake legend and I wanted to kind of hint on that just so it could connect with her own culture. Very cool. I'm mad at myself actually for putting White Snake in my head. Um, you're probably too young, too young to even know who White Snake is, but it was not on, not on your playlist. Um, and, uh, you don't need to answer that. Let me write that down. Oh, no, no, no, no. Don't do that to me. You're going to be like, oh yeah, don't, don't do that.

[00:42:27] Don't do that. Any Gen Xer out there is just like, no, no, don't. Don't do that. What have you done? They're yelling right now. Please, please don't identify, uh, us and associate us with White Snake. But it was really, really bad, like, um, glam rock hair metal stuff. Uh, but, but yeah. Yeah. I did work, by the way, on. Uh, okay. Let me know what you think if you're going to go to do it. But, um, I actually, uh, worked. I love playlists with, with, with a book.

[00:42:57] And I've worked for three, uh, that were on your playlist. So. Which three? Uh, Blink, Avril, and, um, Lincoln Park. Yeah. Oh my God. What did you work with them as? Uh, well, most of it was lighting. With Lincoln Park, I did a brief stint as, as, as, stage manager. So, yeah. Oh, wow. I don't know if you've actually listened to the new Lincoln Park. People are going to get mad at me. Um, but I miss Chester so bad. It's just not the same. Oh yeah.

[00:43:27] She's great. It's not the same. But it's just not the same. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's just not the same. I do agree. Um, yeah. It's very different, but I'm glad that they came back. Um, yeah. But that's cool. You worked with them. They're very much like my playlist very much what I grew up listening. And I just, I think I just like replay the things I listened to from high school and middle school over and over.

[00:43:54] And so when people ask me what kind of music I listened to, I just say, Ooh, I don't know. Pop punk and I guess more K-pop, but that's more recent. Oh. Yeah. Okay. So this is a new exposure for me. I love all kinds of music. Um, but, um, K-pop, this is kind of a new thing for me. Uh, we've been watching the K-pop show on, I guess it's on Apple with Megan Thee Stallion and Psy. So this is where I have. Oh, I have not seen that one.

[00:44:25] Oh, you've got to check this out. They have some really interesting collaborations. So they basically take, um, other older pop artists. Uh, they did like a Spice Girls one and they did one with Taylor Dane and Vanilla Ice. And I will go to the wall. So we haven't finished the season, but Vanilla Ice, I think absolutely the best out of, out of the whole lot. And I would never have guessed that going in.

[00:44:54] I can't believe Rob has still has that much swag at his age. It's just insane. It's insane. It's insane. He's born with it. Yeah, absolutely. Some people just are. So tell me what K-pop, what's, what's your favorite? What should I listen to? What should I get into? Well, I call myself first, I don't know if it's first second gen K-pop. I think we're in the fourth generation, I believe. I'm not too sure.

[00:45:23] Um, so things from the 2010s, that's when my first, um, introduction of K-pop started. So like Super Junior, Girls' Generation, um, Shiny, S-H-I-E-N-E-E. Um, yeah. I'll have to check it out. I was really, really impressed as somebody who spent a lot of time in music and working with artists.

[00:45:52] Shouldn't be surprised. But the, the technical execution of the dance stuff that they were doing was just so incredibly impressive. They're very precise too. Yep. Yeah. Yep. It's amazing. Absolutely. Well, to kind of circle back here, I found it to be an absolute joyful tearjerker of a debut, Casey. It's probably. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

[00:46:19] It's the most emotional I think I've been from reading a book. This year. So it's out on shelves now. So hit up your, your LCS or your favorite independent bookstore to snag yourself a copy. And have you started the next one? Are we going to celebrate a moment of silence for the burrito monster? Because I also heard about the burrito monster, you know? Oh yes. Burrito monster, my 22 page comic. Um, I have not started another book, but I am writing ideas. I have a few ideas.

[00:46:49] Nothing, nothing set in stone yet. Okay. Okay. Okay. But we're not, we're not prophesying the, uh, the return of Chipotle's revenge then? Maybe, maybe after the next one, maybe two, three books for now, but not, not too soon. All right. Well, I always like to end on a positive note here. So we do a shout out so it can be something that inspired you recently or, you know, just thanking somebody, uh, who did something kind for you.

[00:47:18] And, um, I'll go first to give you a moment to think about it. Um, and I'm going to actually shift mine. I had something prepared, but before we started, we were talking about Kiyoki, my old, my old girl. And so I'm just going to express gratitude that she's still with us, you know, arthritis and every single day she just seems to power through it. And she always, always is so happy. So, you know, that's fine. I'm grateful for, for my dog. It's real simple.

[00:47:47] Um, I want to give a shout out to, um, obviously my parents. Oh, this is going to be like a speech. No, no, go for it. Um, this is your Grammys moment. Yes. Um, you know, the team from Top Shelf and IDW, they've always been really sweet to me and very accommodating.

[00:48:07] And they're just awesome, an awesome group of people, Chris, Kim, um, and also my new friends that I met at SPX and New York Comic Con, AJ and Dom, who have a book out, Cloud Nine. Yeah, Jimmy interviewed them. Yeah, I saw, I saw part of it. Okay. But yeah, they're awesome.

[00:48:32] Um, and also Richard, who wrote Coming Out Perfect, his book recently came out too. And, um, yeah. Very nice. Well, Casey, I appreciate you hanging out with me, taking the time to talk about the goal. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you. It's been so much fun. Of course. You're welcome anytime. Um, this is Byron O'Neal. And on behalf of all of us at Common Book Yeti, thanks for tuning in. And we will see you next time. Thank you.

[00:49:02] Take it easy, everybody. Peace. Happy Halloween. Peace. Happy Halloween. This is Byron O'Neal, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner, brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing, and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.

[00:49:26] If you enjoyed this episode of the Cryptid Creator Corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast, Into the Comics Cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Take care. Bye, guys. Bye, guys.