Rich Douek Interview - Masters of the Universe: Genesis

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Hello, and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and very excited for today's guest. It is his fourth fourth time, on the podcast, and I am, very excited. We are talking about a new series that is coming out August 5. It is masters of the universe.

[00:01:16] - [Speaker 2]
Genesis, is coming out from a dark horse. He has reteamed with, Gavin Smith. And, yeah, please welcome back to the podcast, Rich Dueck. Rich, how are you doing today?

[00:01:32] - [Speaker 3]
I'm doing good. Thanks, thanks for having me on. Getting ready for San Diego tomorrow. I'm leaving tomorrow, so it's been a little

[00:01:39] - [Speaker 2]
bit of a

[00:01:40] - [Speaker 3]
good play. But, yeah, it's all good.

[00:01:41] - [Speaker 2]
Well, thank thank you for fitting me in to

[00:01:44] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. No.

[00:01:45] - [Speaker 2]
Your day today when you're you're on your way to done.

[00:01:48] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Okay. My schedule is set, so I'm good.

[00:01:52] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, see, I wouldn't have I I would still have to pack if I was leaving tomorrow.

[00:01:56] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Well, I'm sure there's I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna wake up at, like, midnight and be like, oh god. I forgot this or that.

[00:02:03] - [Speaker 2]
So Right. Yeah.

[00:02:06] - [Speaker 3]
But it's all good.

[00:02:07] - [Speaker 2]
You have to take a lot of stuff out when you go out to San Diego. Like, if you're with some of the stuff you've done, does, like, the publisher set up signings for you? And

[00:02:16] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. I mean, like, I I'm not I don't have, like, an artist alley table out there, so I'm not actually, like, bringing anything, but I do have signing with Dark Horse for Master of the Universe. So, like, they'll be bringing bringing, you know, stock or or whatever it is to sign. And, yeah, I like, it's really like, if you have a table, you you know, you gotta bring bring the stuff out. But otherwise, I just really rely on publishers at at big cons like San Diego and and New York.

[00:02:48] - [Speaker 3]
There's a couple of local ones I'll bring stuff to just because it's, you know, it's easier much easier to just throw them in the trunk of my car and go than, is to, like, ship them across country or try to pack them in luggage and stuff like

[00:03:02] - [Speaker 2]
Right. Do you enjoy the the San Diego Comic Con experience?

[00:03:08] - [Speaker 3]
I do. It's it's completely insane, but I don't know. Like, I like New York too because I guess I just kind of thrive on chaos. But it's great. Like, I love it if for no other reason, just that, like, I get to see a lot of creators that I only get to see, like, once or twice a year, if that, like friends of mine.

[00:03:30] - [Speaker 3]
So it's it's kinda like, jokingly, call it, like, comic summer camp. Like, you know? Like, we all go, like, hang out for, you know, few days and, you know, see people, meet people. I mean, like, obviously, like, seeing fans is great too, but, but it it is great to just, like, reconnect with, people that I don't see all that much. So I enjoy it.

[00:03:54] - [Speaker 3]
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Alright.

[00:03:55] - [Speaker 2]
So let's let's talk about masters of the universe, Genesis. What what can you tell listeners? Because this seems to me, with Genesis, you're you're kinda going back into the early days of Skeletor on on Eternia. Right?

[00:04:12] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah. So Dark Horse has just a mastery of the universe series that Tim Sealy is writing and Riley Brown is doing the art on. It's great in and of itself, but I think they kinda wanted to expand the universe a little bit because this is like, you know, it's its own continuity, like, kind of like a reboot. It's really not like it's not like a continuation of, like, the original cartoon or anything like that.

[00:04:38] - [Speaker 3]
It's all it's just Right. Its own incarnation of Eternia. So, really, like, they wanted to fill in a little bit of the backstory just because, you know, over the years, characters like Skeletor, like, they've all just had, like, several different origins. And I think a lot of Ash Uterus fans are like, you know, well, which Skeletor is this? Is this, like, you know, the evil wizard, or is it the you know, is it Kaldor?

[00:05:03] - [Speaker 3]
Is it I I, you know, apologize to anybody that I'm sounds like I'm speaking Greek to, but it's like, you know, there's just, like, been a lot of different, origins over the years. So I think this is an attempt to kind of, like, help fans ground readers, ground themselves a little bit and, like, you know, what all the different characters, how they got to where they are in the main series. So so Genesis is gonna be I think it's, like, slated right now for 12 issues, and they're gonna highlight four characters. Each one is gonna get, like, a three issue arc. And the first one is Skeletor, which they brought me and Gavin on to to create.

[00:05:43] - [Speaker 3]
So it's been a lot of fun. We're not really doing, like, the origin of Skeletor. Like, you know Okay. It's not it's not like he was, like, you know, in barbarian wizard school, and somebody threw acid on his face, and that's why he's got a skull. Like, we're not explaining any of that stuff.

[00:06:00] - [Speaker 3]
But what we are doing is kind of like like Skeletor taking the first steps on his, like, quest for power to take over Eternia and the and seize the power of Grayskull. So it's it's almost like like an evil version of Ocean's 11 because he's getting getting all his evil warriors together. So in the in the first issue, he's, like, he's recruiting beast man and merman. And then the second issue, he's gonna get trap jaw, Tricops, and and just, like you know, it's like he's getting this, like, bad evil warriors together to make war on Eternia and eventually capture Grayskull. So so that's kind of what our three our three story arc is about.

[00:06:41] - [Speaker 3]
It's, it's been a lot of fun to write, and Gavin is and Fabian is doing amazing work with the art. So really excited for people to check it out.

[00:06:50] - [Speaker 2]
No. That's awesome. Yeah. I I love the idea of the evils ocean oceans 11. Like, that's a great idea for a pitch.

[00:06:59] - [Speaker 2]
Was this something that dark horse, like, approached you with? They're like, oh, hey. We we might have some masters of the universe stuff. Would you be interested?

[00:07:07] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. It's really funny because it was, like it was actually at San Diego last year. I I had a meeting with with Brett, who is our editor on Drive Like Hell. And we were just talking, and I was just like, you know, like, I have some time coming up, and I'd love to do some more license work if you guys have anything. I didn't have, like, Master Universe in mind specifically.

[00:07:29] - [Speaker 3]
It was just, you know, like basically like anything. And he's like, yeah, we're thinking of a couple of master universe things. He's like, do you know Tim? And I'm like, yeah, know Tim. I've met him a few times.

[00:07:42] - [Speaker 3]
He's he's like, yeah. Like like, I'll talk to Tim, but you should also talk to Tim just like, you know, because he can explain it, what he's got in mind a little bit better than I can right now. So so I ran into Tim, like, randomly, like, later on that that day. And I was just like, oh, you know, like, Brett mentioned you might, you know, want some you know, have some stuff for Master Universe, and he and he's like so he's like, yeah. So he laid out for me what Genesis was, and he was like and we were just, like, riffing back and forth about what we liked, And he was like he was like, I think you should use Skeletor.

[00:08:15] - [Speaker 3]
And he's like he's like, tomorrow, go see Brett and tell him you're doing Skeletor. And I'm like, alright. Well, you're the boss. So I did. I go to Brad.

[00:08:28] - [Speaker 3]
I'm look. You know, like like, you could, you know, you're the editor, so feel free to veto this. I was like, but Tim wants to do spell tour, and I'm really interested in it. So, like, if if you're down, I would love to talk more. And he was like, yeah.

[00:08:42] - [Speaker 3]
Absolutely. Like and then, like, we set it up, like, later on where, like, all three of us could kind of talk and and plan plan out a little bit what we wanted to do. And that's how it came about. And then I I didn't wanna jinx it, so I wasn't really telling many people. But one of the people I did tell was Gavin.

[00:09:00] - [Speaker 3]
The because, you know, Gavin and I are good friends and and work together. Gavin's like You work together on Hartpiercer. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like he's like, who's drawing it?

[00:09:09] - [Speaker 3]
I'm like, dude, I don't even know. Like, we're not even, like, that far. So then, like, started working on on them to, like, he's like, guys, like, you know, I'd love to do some Masters of the Universe stuff. Here's how I would draw Skeletor. Here's how I would draw Evil Lyn.

[00:09:25] - [Speaker 3]
You know? So he's working it, and then I'm like, well, I was talking to Gavin, and Gavin, I think he'd be a great fit. Look at what we do with Hartpiercer, and then just sort of like, we pincer maneuvered them into, into getting him on the book. So it was pretty cool.

[00:09:42] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. That that's a lot that's awesome. Yeah. Especially Gavin's art, you know, from Heartpiercer. It does seem like it would kinda fit right into

[00:09:50] - [Speaker 3]
the dark fantasy, sword and sorcery. Like, he did a great job with that. And and

[00:09:56] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[00:09:57] - [Speaker 3]
And and, like, when he was just doing kind of, like, the character turnarounds for, like, like, his version of Skeletor or his version of, like, Trap Jaw and stuff like that, they all looked amazing. So it was it was very cool. Like, it all came together really nicely. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then we got Fabi Marquez on colors, and she did an amazing job.

[00:10:18] - [Speaker 3]
I worked with her on I did an issue of Flash Gordon Quarterly over at Mad Cave, and she was the colorist on it. And she just, like, blew me away. Like, what a great job she did on that. And since, like, Flash Gordon and, you know, like, He Man kind of I I feel like they have kind of, like, a similar vibe of, like, you know, kind of, like, cosmic adventures mixed with, like, you know, weird worlds and stuff like that. So so Yeah.

[00:10:45] - [Speaker 3]
We thought of her and, like, put her put our name forward when when we started talking about coloring, and and luckily, everything lined up. So it was just, like, great to have her there.

[00:10:55] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, fantastic. Yeah. She's a phenomenal colorist. And the book looks I mean, everything I've seen from it, I haven't got to read all of it yet, but it looks great. So I just I just I think it looks fantastic.

[00:11:07] - [Speaker 2]
Thanks.

[00:11:08] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. We got, like, a sweet Lee Bermejo cover too. That was like

[00:11:12] - [Speaker 2]
The Bermejo cover does look really great.

[00:11:15] - [Speaker 3]
Just You know? Yeah. It was it was just a really nice surprise to, like you know? It's like, you see that art and then, like, your name there. It's like, oh god.

[00:11:24] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, know, we're we're all, like, going nuts. So it was very cool.

[00:11:29] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Right. Rightfully so. It it looks amazing. So what was kinda like when you were a kid?

[00:11:37] - [Speaker 2]
I mean, He Man was, you know, for people my my age were was huge. I mean, my Oh, yeah. My brother my brother would and I would go, and every time we got to go to the toy store, we would get, you know, a different character. We had, like, a a ton of I think they're probably still somewhere, in my parents' basement. I don't know if all of them have all their their parts, but, I remember battle damage battle damage he maniac.

[00:12:07] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was like this, like, roller thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:10] - [Speaker 3]
Like, hold. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no. I a ton of them too, and and my friends did too.

[00:12:16] - [Speaker 3]
Like, I remember dragging my mom to the toy store, like, to go get He Man, and then, like, seeing Skeletor and being like, no. I want that guy instead. Because he just looked, like, so metal. Like, I just loved, like, the skull face and stuff.

[00:12:33] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:12:34] - [Speaker 3]
And it worked out because my best friend wound up getting He Man. So then it was like, you know, we had a little more of a complete, like, you know, play sessions or whatever where where we would hang out together. My friend Right. You know? But, yeah, like, I never had any of, like, the big stuff.

[00:12:52] - [Speaker 3]
Like, I didn't have, like, Castle Grayskull or anything like that, but I had a ton ton of the guys. And I think I had, like I think I remember Battle Cat. I don't remember. I had, like, one of the, like, mounts or vehicles or something. But, yeah, I I loved it.

[00:13:06] - [Speaker 3]
And and it was the sort of thing, like, like, when the the cartoon is out, like, it was on, like, after school, and this is, like, back in the days where there was, like, two hours of cartoons on, like, and that was it. You know? It wasn't like you couldn't binge watch anything. So I would definitely, like it was definitely part of the rotation of, like, my after school routine to, like, come home and, you know, throw on the TV and master universe would come on, Voltron, GI Joe, all those shows. So, yeah, I mean, like, you know, there's, like, a, like, a bit of nostalgia to it for me, but, like, but it was also, like, you know, I don't wanna I didn't wanna, like, lean 100% into the nostalgia.

[00:13:43] - [Speaker 3]
I wanted to, like, kinda make it our own version as well. So so

[00:13:47] - [Speaker 2]
Is that tough to do in terms of, like, how do you get into finding that balance? Because, you know, something that you loved as a kid and getting it to work getting to work on that property, I have to imagine, like

[00:13:59] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[00:14:00] - [Speaker 2]
I mean, it It's

[00:14:01] - [Speaker 3]
a fun it's a fine line. It's like a balance because it's like, if you do exactly if you do exactly the same thing, then it's like not it's not gonna be memorable, and and and everybody's gonna be like like, oh, it's the big deal. Like, you you just you know, you did exactly the same thing that that they used to. But then it's like if you go too far away, it's like why are you even writing Master of Universe? You might as well just be writing your own thing.

[00:14:26] - [Speaker 3]
So I think like what I always try to do is really just think about like what the the core of of the characters are, and like what what it is that like, you know, like why why did I fall in love with it? Like why do people fall in love with it? And like Yeah. And I think if you can nail that, you can kind of, like you have a little bit more license to kind of change the details of, like, how you get there. You know?

[00:14:52] - [Speaker 3]
So it's like so for Skeletor, for example, it's like, you know, I think he's he's great because he's just sort of like maybe it's just because it's, like, coming from the eighties, but it's like he's just not a complicated bad guy. You know what I mean? He's, like, evil. He wants power, and that's it. You know?

[00:15:13] - [Speaker 3]
It's not like, you know, we don't wanna do something where, like, it was like, oh, he he was bullied when he was a kid, and, this is his, like, righteous vengeance on the world and stuff like that. Right. Or, you know, I think that's, like, appropriate for some characters, but, like, but for Skeletor, it's just, like, in a way, he's similar to, like, the Joker, and that it's just like, no. Like, he's just there's just something wrong up there. Like, you know what mean?

[00:15:38] - [Speaker 3]
Like Yeah. Like, he's he's just all about, like, taking over and doesn't

[00:15:42] - [Speaker 2]
It's it's his parents' fault. They named him Skeletor.

[00:15:46] - [Speaker 3]
I know. He he was doomed from the start. Yeah. Growing up with blue skin and and a skull face. You know?

[00:15:54] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. It's not easy.

[00:15:55] - [Speaker 2]
Been easy. Yeah. No. Not at all. Yeah.

[00:15:59] - [Speaker 2]
I I was thinking about that with, like, getting to write a property like masters of the universe or getting to work on it and just the the temptation to just try and throw in all of, like, the ups somewhat obscure, like, deep cut, you know, or,

[00:16:15] - [Speaker 3]
like of characters. Yeah.

[00:16:17] - [Speaker 2]
Whatever it was, like, I I think my favorite I my favorite toys that that I had, I loved, I loved Mossman. Mhmm. Moss, Cobra Khan. That was like the the viper

[00:16:33] - [Speaker 3]
that man. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:34] - [Speaker 2]
That that that, but it was, also, like, a water gun. The toy was also a water gun. Yeah. Stinker. I I was a big stinker fan.

[00:16:44] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. And and he actually stunk. Right? Like, was like a scratch

[00:16:47] - [Speaker 2]
and stuff. Smelled. Yeah. Yeah. Not complicated name not you know, They didn't put

[00:16:53] - [Speaker 3]
a lot of

[00:16:54] - [Speaker 2]
time of thought into naming the characters.

[00:16:56] - [Speaker 3]
It's true. I actually thought they handled that pretty well. Like, no spoilers, but I thought they handled that pretty well in the movie, kind of, like, explaining why you like, there's a guy named Ramman and a guy named Fisto and stuff like that. So I actually enjoyed that. But, yeah, like, I think I totally gave into that temptation, but wasn't like it's sort of like you have to, like, let Easter eggs be Easter eggs.

[00:17:23] - [Speaker 3]
You know what I mean? So it's like so everything I liked, I couldn't be, like devote, like, a full scene to them or something. But, like, I was talk like, we're talking to Gavin. It's like, okay. Well, like, here's a big battle scene with a lot of, like, evil warriors in it.

[00:17:37] - [Speaker 3]
So if you wanna sneak in, like, this dude or that dude or or this vehicle, like, go for it. And and he he drew he just he drew some insane scenes in there with, like, hunt seems like hundreds of people fighting and stuff like that. So it's actually really very cool. But, yeah, we just tried to drop in stuff like that and, like, work it. Like, the cool thing about, like, Dark Horse and Mattel is that we pretty much, like like, nothing was, like like, off the table, so to speak.

[00:18:10] - [Speaker 3]
Like like, certain stuff was. Like like, we couldn't use any of the snake men because the snake men were gonna be, like, into the plot of the main series, like, later. So it's like so, like, it wouldn't have made sense to have them running around in the time frame we were doing it in. But other than that, like, we we just gave them a list of characters we wanted to use, and they were like, you got it. So it was very cool.

[00:18:36] - [Speaker 2]
That's great. Being friends with Gavin and working on the heart piercer, did your like, the way you collaborate on this, you know, change at all? Was it, you know, kind of, like, smooth sailing?

[00:18:50] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think Gavin and I vibe pretty well, like, off the bat. You know, I think and then, like, Harpiercer just helped us kinda get to know each other a little bit better in terms of, like, you know, I got a good feel for what he likes to do. He got a good feel for what I'm looking for, I guess kind of how to parse my scripts and stuff like that. Not that I write extremely complicated, but it's just like, know, I think he probably got used to just sort of my cadence and my rhythm and things like that.

[00:19:29] - [Speaker 3]
So I think if Harpiercer was kind of like the first date, like, this is, like, you know, like, the second, third, fourth, I don't know. Like like but I feel like we really we really like like, this one was, like, very smooth. There weren't really any issues, but it was, like, but it was always just like, like, if he had a question, he'd just text me, or we'd jump on the phone and work it out. But, yeah, like, I I like to be, like, really not even, like, just with Gavin, but, like, with my artists, any artists I work with, I like to be, like, collaborative and very open to, like, their, you know, ideas and suggestions because it's sort of like like, the way that I look at it is that it just makes for a better book if they're, like, loving what they're drawing. You know what I mean?

[00:20:19] - [Speaker 3]
So

[00:20:20] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[00:20:22] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, it's less important to me that, like, you know, they get every single detail that I put down right, and more important that if they have a better idea for a layout or an angle or something like that, it's like as long as we're, like, open with each other and we talk about it, like, I I love that stuff. So Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:44] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. I would think with, like, you know, Skeletor and just thinking of Skeletor from, you know, like, the the cartoon and the you know, you said he's not a complicated bad guy. He is very much a cartoon villain, wants power, the foil for for for He Man. But writing him for this series and with, like, the your background in in terms of the horror books that, you know, you've written and worked on with with Alex, was was there a tendency to see, like, oh, how far could I push this Skeletor into into that realm?

[00:21:23] - [Speaker 3]
I mean, yes and no, because it's like, you know, this ain't that kind of book. Like, it's not like a horror book, so I wasn't really trying to, like, make anything gruesome or anything despite the fact that he's got a skull for a face. But I will say, like, I think one of the things that makes that that horror kind of stand out is just the fact that, like, the characters have, like, some depth to them, you know, as far as, like, their motivations go and and the things that drive them. And that's really kind of the lesson I took from that, from from the horror stuff that I want to bring in to Master of the Universe. And and really, like, anything I write, it it I think it's like again, like, I I talk a lot about, like, finding a balance, and you sort of have to find the balance between, like, keeping things, like, in, like, subtext and, like, at, like, just saying them out loud.

[00:22:17] - [Speaker 3]
And it's like, you know so there's a lot going on, like, underneath, like, what's going to what's driving him. And I think it's it's one of those things that just becomes more apparent, like, as the as the series goes on. And then by issue three, if we've done it right, it's like you're gonna find out, like, why he's doing what he's doing, and it's like, ah, okay. Makes sense. You know?

[00:22:40] - [Speaker 2]
So Yeah. Yeah. I I I mean, I I totally understand, but there is there is part of me that's like, man, I would love to see Rich take take, you know, take take the reins off on Skeletor.

[00:22:54] - [Speaker 3]
Well, yeah. You know, I think it's like it's complicated because number one, there's only so much that, like, Mattel would, like, say yes to.

[00:23:03] - [Speaker 2]
Right. You're you're playing in somebody else's sandbox.

[00:23:06] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. And, also, it's like, since it's a companion series to, like, to Tim and Riley's main series, it's like, you know, I I really tried to do my best to, like, fit fit the vibe of that as well. Right. Because you don't want it to be, like, two completely different reading experiences. Like, the hope is that the people that really dig the main series are gonna come over to this one and really enjoy it, and it'll give them, like, a little bit of a broader appreciation for what's going on in that series.

[00:23:39] - [Speaker 3]
But I think it's also, you know, like, if you're just, like, a fan of Skeletor, and there are a lot of fans of Skeletor out there that, like, maybe it'll bring you in, and you'll read this, and and be like, oh, well, let me check out the main series. That seems cool. So, you know Yeah. It's like, you know, yeah, like like, I think if if if they had come to me and been like, yeah. Like, we're doing a crazy horror reboot of He Man, so just cut loose.

[00:24:07] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, well, yeah, obviously, There's plenty of stuff I could do. It would be pretty messed up. But Yeah. You know? But, you know, it's like you just sort of have to find different ways to push things and different things to, like, bring, like, your talents to the table.

[00:24:25] - [Speaker 3]
You know? So Yeah. Like, I'm good at horror and and and and dark, like, you know, that just that sort of, like, like, black humor sometimes. It's, like, runs through those books as well. So it's like so that's kind of, like, the stuff I can bring over is just, like, the, you know, the tension, the humor, the character character work.

[00:24:46] - [Speaker 2]
Well, I'm excited for folks to finally get a a look at it when it's on the stands on on August 5. But, yeah, I I big Skeletor fan as well, and I can't wait. I can't wait for people to get ahold of him. And I I was a big fan of what you and Gavin did on Hartpiercer, so I'm glad to see you two reteaming for for something like this. I also I wanted to turn and talk to next a little bit about, your story that you have in, I think it's hello darkness issue 23.

[00:25:17] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[00:25:19] - [Speaker 2]
Because I I'm a big western fan, and I just just by the title alone, the man who outdrew death. So what can you tell us about the story in Hello Darkness? And you're working with Steven Subic?

[00:25:36] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah. Steven Subic and I worked together on Batman short last year, and that was, like, a great experience as well. And he came in he he was at he came in like, I'll tell you the story of, like, why Steven was the first guy I thought of for this. It's because he came in to New York, Comic Con, because he was promoting Full Moon, that he was Batman Full Moon that he was doing at Friday Barnes.

[00:26:08] - [Speaker 3]
And we had also we also did this short together, so, you know, I was like, oh, great. Like, I get to I get to meet him because he's, you know, he lives in Europe. So it's like, you know, I hardly ever get the chance to see him. But so, like, we were talking, we hung out, and he was staying an extra day. So I was like, oh, like, you know, like, I'm local to New York, so, like like, let's hang out.

[00:26:32] - [Speaker 3]
Like, I'll I'll take you around. And he really wanted to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge and go down to there's this famous shot of the Manhattan Bridge from Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in America, where you're, like, kind of, like, looking up at the Manhattan Bridge, and there's actually, like, a plaque in in the neighborhood in Brooklyn where, like, where the shot was. So it was like so we went down there, took some pictures and stuff. But, like, in the process, we're, like, we're talking about, like, Sergio Leone and how much we loved, like, the westerns and stuff like that because he also did, you know, like, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and like like the ugly. All that stuff.

[00:27:18] - [Speaker 3]
So so then, like, when I was, like, pitching stories for hello darkness, like, I was pitching a bunch, but they really like the Western one. So in my head, I'm like, Steven would be perfect for this because he's such a huge fan of of Leone, and that's kind of like I wanted to, like, bring that kind of, like, spaghetti western vibe to it. And he did it. He did, like, just such a great job. It's really like it it's, I think, like, 10 pages, but it's, like, 10 of, like, my favorite pages that I've ever done just because he's he's really, like he really nailed the vibe.

[00:27:53] - [Speaker 3]
But the man who out your death, to give a short answer after the long and rambling answer I just gave you, what what it's about is basically just like, you know, that classic, like, gunslingers wanting to be famous by, you know, dueling each other and being known as, like, the fastest gun fastest gun in the West. So in in this story, there's a legend of a gunslinger who drew so fast that he outdrew death himself, like shot death when death came into town on his pale horse. So this story is all about just like a a challenger who, like, kind of find tracks this guy down and challenges into a duel. And I don't wanna spoil too much, but it doesn't go as he expected. So Yeah.

[00:28:47] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. But, yeah, it was just like a like, I mean, the great thing about writing shorts is that it's like, you know, they're very, like, self contained and can be, like, very to the point and gritty and fun. And and this one was just, like, kick ass horror western. And, like, I like, as much as I can't wait for people to read Master of the Universe, I can't wait for people to read this too because I think it's, like, some of the best stuff I've done so far.

[00:29:17] - [Speaker 2]
What what in particular, like, drew you to Sergio Leone's, westerns? Was there anything in particular, like, the first time you saw it? I mean, for me, I I the first time, you know, I saw I mean, the good, the bad, and the ugly, I just, it was just blew blew me away. I mean, I think it was, like, a kid growing up. My grandfather liked westerns and, you know, a fistful of dollars, a few dollars more, and and the good, the bad, and the ugly is just just a masterclass in Yeah.

[00:29:47] - [Speaker 2]
Filmmaking.

[00:29:48] - [Speaker 3]
I mean, they're, like, they're amazing films. I mean, like, Clint Eastwood obviously has something to do with that. Like, he's just he's great in those roles. But, like, but for Leone, like, I think it's just like it's like a masterclass in just, like, camerawork and framing and things like that. And even though I'm not, like, drawing it, it's like, you know, when you're writing a script, you're kind of calling the shots.

[00:30:10] - [Speaker 3]
So it's like Sure. So it's like, even though it's like a movie, it's like when you break it down shot by shot, it's an amazing way to think of it, and you can kind of translate it to comic book form in that like like, we like, I have a page where, like, the two gunslingers are facing off, and it's like and, like, when you look at the that famous Mexican standoff scene in in Good, The Bad, The Ugly, when you've got three characters, and they're all, like, getting ready to draw on each other. And it's like it's like, okay. Like, we're on the eyes. Now we're on his eyes.

[00:30:50] - [Speaker 3]
Now we're on the face. Now we're on the gun. Now we're on the eyes again. And it's just like it's all these individual shots, but it's like it's building and building and building. So that's really kind of taking that idea and and translating it onto the page.

[00:31:07] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, okay. Well, like this panel, we're gonna see this guy's eyes. In this panel, we're gonna see the other guy's face. In this panel, we're gonna see the hand on the gun. In this panel, back to the eyes.

[00:31:18] - [Speaker 3]
And you know what I mean? So so I I just found that, like, really valuable inspiration and and just also just from, like, a, like, a practical standpoint of, like like, how to do it well. So Mhmm.

[00:31:34] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Oh, that's yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And I well, I can't wait then because I, I'm a big fan of Western. So I'll have to make sure I pick up Hello Darkness, number number 23.

[00:31:46] - [Speaker 2]
Vinny, I also want to ask you about you did something with Black Market, presents, which if anyone doesn't know, that's Kyle Higgins. And, you worked with, Nir Levy and Buddy. Buddy Bodoyne. Yep. I love Buddy's work.

[00:32:00] - [Speaker 2]
And so black eye. And now this is kind of a little different because it kinda came out in the newsletter, and it was like a like a downward scroll.

[00:32:11] - [Speaker 3]
Like Yeah. Like a webtoon style. Right.

[00:32:13] - [Speaker 2]
Like a webtoon. Right.

[00:32:14] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[00:32:15] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Did you have to change anything in terms of, like, how you script? Did it it change anything for you that you're now thinking about it not left to right, but Yeah. I mean down.

[00:32:27] - [Speaker 3]
I've done I've done a few Infinity comics, like, for Marvel. Like, I did a couple Yeah. A Kingpin one, a Kang one, and a Ghost Rider one. And what I found really interesting about them is it's like it it almost kind of like you could really use, like, the vertical thing to your advantage in terms of, like, when someone's scrolling, you could do, like, kind of transitions between panels that really, like, work and and enhance the story. And it's also, like, with how you space, like, where the balloons fall and stuff and and the and the captions, you can kind of control the flow of of information a little bit differently than you do on the page.

[00:33:17] - [Speaker 3]
Mhmm. So it kind of like reintroduces like time as like an element to the storytelling. What I mean by that is it's like like in a movie when you've got like a moving picture. Right? It's like you're on it.

[00:33:29] - [Speaker 3]
Like, the director will have it on a shot, and you'll be on that shot for five seconds, ten seconds, fifteen sec whatever it is. But it's like you're on that shot for, like, a certain amount of time. You can't really do that in a comic book because it's like, you turn the page, it's like, it's all there. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[00:33:46] - [Speaker 3]
It's like it's really just like how long is the reader going to, like, spend on each image, but it's like, it's all there. So it's like, you like, so there and some people read fast, some people read slow. Some people, you know, read something, like, three times and then to get it and then turn the page. So that's not really so, like, the time element's not really, like, a part of it, but it's like when you have a scroll, it's like you're only able to see so much of the comic on screen at one time, and it's gonna take you even though it's a matter of, like, seconds, it takes you time to, like, scroll up. So you can do stuff like whereas, like, in a in a in a print comic, you have, like you you might, like, hide a dramatic moment behind a page turn, whereas because it's like you want you end on a cliffhanger, then you turn the page, and it's like, oh, like, you're resolving the cliffhanger.

[00:34:42] - [Speaker 3]
With the scroll comic, you can do those kind of reveals any place in the story, because you're not relying on a page turn. You're just sort of relying on where you are in the scroll. So Okay. Yeah. There are there are a lot of, like, interesting techniques you can do with Webtoon style scrolls that you kind of can't do with printer.

[00:35:04] - [Speaker 3]
You'd have to do differently in print. Mhmm. And I think one of the reasons why Nier is a great choice for black eyes, because his art is so surreal and has these wild elements to it, that it's almost got like, a Mobius or, like, Tradmore kind of, like, quality to it, where it's like Yeah. How things just, like, flow into each other and and, like, weird shapes and and stuff like that. So so he really, like, did rise to the occasion, and and, like like, when you, like, scroll through it, you are seeing these, like, wild transitions of of things that, like like, if we ever took it and made it into a print comic, like, they would still hit.

[00:35:48] - [Speaker 3]
Like, they would still look good, but they just kind of, like, hit differently, like, as part of the scroll. So

[00:35:54] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. It it's, like, an incredible kind of, like, scrolling experience. It it does like, flow is the right word. And I I mean, I know we we say that all the time with things that like, digital comics or things that scroll. But, like, I I don't know if I've ever meant it more than I did for a comic than what would this one.

[00:36:14] - [Speaker 2]
Like, there is something very interesting and and unique, about it, in terms of Nier's artwork. But can you just tell listeners a little bit about, like, what the story's about and how you ended up working with, you know, Kyle's black market on this?

[00:36:33] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. So Black Eyre is a story that, like, I kind of had kicking around in my head for a little bit. It's a it's a story about, like, a I guess you call it, like, a supernatural, like, investigator. So maybe somebody in the mold of, like, Helloy or John Constantine or, you know, just like somebody who goes around kind of dealing with supernatural problems.

[00:36:58] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:36:59] - [Speaker 3]
Differences with him, his name is Ed Edmund Crow, and he's got a he's got an eye patch. And what's underneath the eye patch is a forgive me if I'm spoiling it, but it's it's a portal to, like, a dimension of, like, elder gods of, like, you know, just like this, like it's like a portal to hell, like, in his eye. Then, like Yeah. You so I thought it was really interesting where it's like, he's he's gonna he kinda goes around helping people with their supernatural problems, and it's like he's going to kind of try and maybe talk the demon down or, like, get them to leave under normal circumstances. But if he can't, he's always got that kind of trump card in the iPad trail.

[00:37:49] - [Speaker 3]
Like, he flips it up and and can deal with the problem. But, basically, like like, I really wanted to do something that was, like, in the territory of, like, surrealness and and stuff that was, you know, just allowed for, like, wild visuals, which is why I think Nier was, like, perfect for it. But we are doing more. And, like, as it goes on, series really is just kind of about, like, you know, like, what if you knew, like, this, like, brutal cosmic horror truth about the universe that it really was, like, you know, your worst nightmare about, like, Cthulhu, this, like or not Cthulhu, but, like, this just sort of, like, uncaring cosmic entity that is, like, you're, like, less than an ant, and Right. And, like, you know, and there's all this, like, evil stuff, and none of it matters.

[00:38:46] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, what if you knew that? You knew that for a fact. Not like you think that. It's like you know it for a fact, and yet you're still kind of choosing to help people.

[00:38:58] - [Speaker 2]
Right.

[00:38:59] - [Speaker 3]
Because people, yourself included, still have to live in the universe. You know what mean? So even so Yeah. That's really kind of like the what the series is, like, about. And Uh-huh.

[00:39:12] - [Speaker 3]
And over over time, it's like he's gonna be kind of crossing paths with all these different conspiracies that also know the truth, but are trying to manipulate it, like, in their own ways. So, like, we've got another installment, like, queued up and ready to go. That just is, like, if you thought this one was real, like, the second one is, like, almost, like, batshit crazy. And that's kind of the goal is just to, like, really just play with, like, crazy visuals and, like, dream logic. It's like it's almost like if I was gonna do, like, a x meets y thing, it would be like like, doctor who or supernatural or, like, a show like that as if it was directed by, like, David Lynch.

[00:40:02] - [Speaker 3]
Like, that's kind of that's the vibe we're going for. You know? Perfect. Well Yeah. You know, hopefully, we're hitting vibe.

[00:40:10] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. So Yeah. So that's the idea behind the series. And like I said, I had the series in mind for, like, a while. I was just really looking for somewhere to put it.

[00:40:21] - [Speaker 3]
You know? And, like

[00:40:23] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[00:40:24] - [Speaker 3]
Because there's always a question of, like, well, is the publisher gonna like it, or are they gonna sign on for it or or whatever? Like like I said, like, I wanna do a lot of it, so I'm not necessarily looking to do, like, a miniseries and, like, constrain it that way where it's, like, five issues and, like, done. Like, I have, like you know, I I wanted the freedom to do, like, a bunch. And and I just was talking to Kyle about it because he he had wanted been wanting to do this Black Market Presents thing for a while where the idea behind Black Market Presents is the idea behind Black Market Presents is to, you know, use his platform to just kind of, like, showcase, some other creators who like, people like me or not necessarily, like, old or new or whatever, but, like, people that, like, may not be as, like, popular as he is. You know?

[00:41:18] - [Speaker 3]
Like like, he's his newsletter people love the massive verse. Yeah. Kyle's done a ton of great work. Like, his newsletter has, like, something like, I think, like, 7,000 subscribers or something like that. Mine has, like, I think three or 400.

[00:41:34] - [Speaker 3]
So it's like so I just don't have like the same audience that he does. And I think like the great thing about it is that like he just really he's not asking to like own any of it or anything like that. He's just like, wanting to, like, give a little bit back to, you know, the community by, like, you know, showcasing people. So Yeah. Black Eye was, like, the first one.

[00:41:59] - [Speaker 3]
I think there have been, like, two or three others that have come out since. We're gonna do more Black Eye. I hope some of those other ones are gonna continue as well. But, like, you know, it's like we don't really know, like, what form final form it's gonna take. Because, like, right now, it scrolls in his in his newsletter, but, like, you know Yeah.

[00:42:20] - [Speaker 3]
Once we have, like, a book's worth of them, like, maybe maybe we'll look at putting a print book together, or maybe we'll look at, I don't know, like, he just did, like, he just did, like, an audiobook of, like, radiant black. So it's like, you know, maybe maybe we'll do that. Maybe maybe we won't. Maybe, you know, Nir and I will, format it for print and pitch it pitch it to publishers, but, like, we'll have the advantage of having, like, a lot of it done and having, you know, some, like, proof that there's, an audience out there that likes it. You know?

[00:42:49] - [Speaker 3]
Like, we don't we really know. It's, like, it's all very experimental, but that's also what's real kind of really cool about it is that it's like anything could happen. So Yeah. You know? So it's it's just been, like, really exciting, and and Kyle's been really just, like, amazing and and supportive.

[00:43:05] - [Speaker 3]
He's really, like, I've gotten to know him, like, a lot better over the course of this past year. So he's just been super supportive and helpful. So

[00:43:16] - [Speaker 2]
That's fantastic. Yeah. I'm I'm excited for it. I subscribed to Kyle's newsletter, so I subscribed to yours

[00:43:22] - [Speaker 3]
as well, Rich. So Yeah.

[00:43:24] - [Speaker 2]
Appreciate it. I'll put I'll put links in the show notes for everything for your newsletter for Kyle's and Yeah. Where folks can get, so they can check out masters of the universe Genesis and, a reminder about Hello Darkness. I mean, not that that's not enough. Is there any anything else you're working on that listeners should, keep an eye out for?

[00:43:50] - [Speaker 2]
Or

[00:43:51] - [Speaker 3]
Oh, well, I mean, as usual, I'm working on plenty as far as, like, keeping an eye out for it. Like, you know, look for some announcements, like, later in the year. Like, nothing, like, that's, like, for public consumption yet, but, you know, like Okay. I am I'm trucking. I'm working on I can't say what it is, but I'm working on a new series with Alex.

[00:44:16] - [Speaker 3]
Think it's gonna be our fifth one together, but he's my he's my ride or die. So Right. We are having a lot of fun working on this one. He just started doing the arts, and it's it's looking amazing. I think it's gonna be a little bit surprising for people because it's very different from anything we've done before.

[00:44:39] - [Speaker 3]
Oh, to science fiction than horror, but he's doing a great job with it. So excited for for people to check it out. Awesome. Like I said, San Diego's tomorrow, so who knows what deals or Yeah. You know, things may arise from that because, like like I said, I got I got master of the universe there last year.

[00:45:00] - [Speaker 3]
So

[00:45:00] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Fingers crossed.

[00:45:03] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. Fingers crossed. Other good stuff happens this year.

[00:45:06] - [Speaker 2]
But listeners, I'll I'll put a link in the show notes if you are a fan of Rich's work. Subscribe to Rich's newsletter because Rich, like, you know, will tell you some of the stuff he's working on. Like Yeah. It'll project this or that. And then when it comes out, you can be like, oh, this was project this that Rich teased in his newsletter.

[00:45:27] - [Speaker 2]
So Yeah.

[00:45:27] - [Speaker 3]
One of the best ways to oh, yeah. Sorry. Also talk about a lot of, like, industry stuff about, like, how I got started as a writer, kinda like my thoughts on, like, if you're a writer, like, you know, tips that may help you, or if you're, like, wondering about, like, the comic book industry, like, I'm not gonna, like, dish dirt on people specifically, but I do talk about, like, you know, how things kind of work behind the scenes sometimes, like pitching and things like that. Because, honestly, it would be boring if all I talked about was, like, myself, I feel like. So I I just try to, like, you know, vary it up a little bit.

[00:46:06] - [Speaker 3]
I rail against AI every couple of months.

[00:46:09] - [Speaker 2]
Right.

[00:46:10] - [Speaker 3]
So Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off there, Jim. I'm sorry.

[00:46:13] - [Speaker 2]
No. No. You're you're you know, you're fine. You're fine. Well, yeah, I was just thinking of AI because I we didn't even mention it, but you did you did work on exit city.

[00:46:21] - [Speaker 2]
Right? Yeah. Yeah. For for being a shave. You know, part of the, underworld universe, but you kinda took over for the the second arc of, of exit city.

[00:46:32] - [Speaker 2]
Right? It came out earlier this year. How was that experience working on that?

[00:46:37] - [Speaker 3]
That was great. I mean, like, I don't know if any people are familiar with Underworld, but it's, kind of Mad Cave's interconnected universe. Yeah.

[00:46:47] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. We I had Mark on before.

[00:46:48] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[00:46:49] - [Speaker 2]
Talking about it. Like, I think it was May it might have been when underworlds just started coming out. I don't think endless night had been out yet, but Yeah. But yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:00] - [Speaker 3]
It's Mark's name. Like Yep. You know, like, he's got all these characters, like, bouncing around in his head for decades. And Yeah. And he's doing them, and and it is a real fun know, it's like it's like interconnected, but it's way more like, it's way less, like, kind of, like, superhero focused and more kind of, like, like, weird, like, spies, criminals, conspiracy Yeah.

[00:47:28] - [Speaker 3]
Stuff like that.

[00:47:30] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. For listeners, if you listen to Mark's episode or you aren't familiar with it, it's revolution nine, hour of the wolf, exit city. And then when you read the individual series, you're like, how can how how can they all fit together? But they do.

[00:47:49] - [Speaker 2]
They they pull it off in Endless Night, and then they did a, you know, a second arc, and and Rich took over, I think, with issue five of, of Endless of Exit City. Exit City.

[00:47:59] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. And exit is, like, a cool book because it's like like, the whole premise of it is that, like, you know, this cabal of, like, tech, you know, tech bros for lack of better word. It's like it's like as if, like, Elon Musk and Peter Thiel and, like, all those guys got tired of dealing with, like, the regulations of countries and just built a city in the middle of the ocean with Yeah. Regulations and everything like that. Yes.

[00:48:27] - [Speaker 3]
But the whole thing is that people still have to live there, so they still need a police department. They still need a fire department. So Exit City is very much about, like, how can you be a cop in a place where, like, everything is, like, just, like, openly kind of corrupted. You know, there's no guardrails or anything like that. So it was it was a lot of fun to take over, and and, like, AI was on my mind when I was pitching the story.

[00:48:57] - [Speaker 3]
So the story is really about, like, that line between, like, AI and humanity as it as it affects, like, the art world. And in in the story, it's, like, affecting, like, art world of Exit City itself. Like, the art scene, like, in terms of, like, artists showing in galleries and things like that. Yeah. And that was a lot of fun because my wife is a fine artist who does gallery shows and stuff like that.

[00:49:24] - [Speaker 3]
So I was able to bring in that little slice of personal life in there too. But, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun to work in work on, and I think it's gonna be collected soon. So I would look for a trade coming out probably, like, late this year or early next. And, yeah, like, Underworld keeps growing because even beyond Exodus, I think, like, they've announced, like, two or three new titles, and there's more coming. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun to work on.

[00:49:57] - [Speaker 2]
That's awesome. Yeah. I really I really like all this book. So, but, yeah, Rich, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. I hope, masters of the universe Genesis is a huge success.

[00:50:11] - [Speaker 2]
I can't wait for folks to to read it. I'm excited to check out your story in hello darkness number 23, and I'll make sure to point listeners in the direction of Kyle Higgins' newsletter so they can check out black eye. And, yeah, if you haven't read any of other Rich's earlier books, if you haven't read Heart Piercer or, Road of Bones is one of my, you know, all time favorites, or Drive Like Hell, I'll you know, check out Rich's website, and I'll have a link so you can follow Rich on social media. Subscribe to his newsletter. But, Rich, thank you so much for coming back for a fourth time on the podcast.

[00:50:46] - [Speaker 2]
Really appreciate

[00:50:47] - [Speaker 3]
it. Me. I'm I'm glad you're not bored of me yet.

[00:50:50] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, no. No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. No.

[00:50:54] - [Speaker 2]
Alright, listeners. Thank you so much for listening. Oh, a shout out to my brother Bobby. I almost forgot the cryptic creator corner's number one most dedicated fan. Bobby listens to all my episodes.

[00:51:02] - [Speaker 2]
Hey, Bob.

[00:51:03] - [Speaker 3]
Hey, Bobby.

[00:51:03] - [Speaker 2]
We'll we'll make sure that you get you a copy of, I'll make sure to put on our pull list so that you get a copy of, masters of the universe Genesis because I think Bob's a big Skeletor fan as well. So Sweet. Ed, listeners, thank you so much for listening. Good night, and I'll see you next time.

[00:51:22] - [Speaker 4]
Jimmy is too humble to do this. So as his stalwart ride or die, I wanted to tell you about his new graphic novel, Penny and the Yeti with artist Amber Aiken. What started as a comic short with his daughter that I've known about for ages now, and it's evolved and has become one of those annoying can't talk about it in comics things for too damn long. Yes. I'm predisposed to be supportive but after reading an advanced copy of it, I have to admit it's way better than I anticipated.

[00:51:50] - [Speaker 4]
No shade but it's really good, remarkably so. Does it have a yeti? Yeah. Is it cute and adorable? Yeah.

[00:51:57] - [Speaker 4]
But it streak lies in effectively tapping into the all too familiar family dynamics that we all are facing in 2026 and approaching it in a way that doesn't insult the book's target audience. Kids. They are way smarter and perceptive than we adults give them credit for. So I really appreciated Jimmy's narrative approach tapping into his own experiences as a dad and a spouse. I can hear his wife saying, get off your phone, Jimmy, through the pages.

[00:52:23] - [Speaker 4]
She's gonna kill me for saying that. It's hitting shelves on April 21, and I dropped the link in the show notes where you can preorder a copy today. Getty or not, here we come with Penny, Perry, Fenton, Maxine, and the magical, mythical, magnificent Yeti. On behalf of us both, we appreciate your support. YOLOLA.

[00:52:45] - [Speaker 4]
This is Byron O'Neill, one

[00:52:47] - [Speaker 3]
of your hosts of the

[00:52:48] - [Speaker 4]
Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.

[00:53:05] - [Speaker 0]
If you enjoyed this episode of the Cryptid Creator Corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast, Into the Comics Cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.