David Andry Interview - Estuary: A Ghost Story

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[00:00:54] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo. And boy, do I have an exciting episode today. This is this young man's fifth time as a guest on the podcast. Five-timer club. I'm waiting for my jacket to come in the mail still, but I would've worked. That's right. I don't know if we're doing jackets or t-shirts. I feel like we should definitely do something because that's rarefied air for somebody to have been on five times.

[00:01:23] But please welcome to the podcast, David D.B. Andry. David, how are you doing today? Good, good, Jimmy. Still just getting up and this cat won't leave me alone. But other than that, things are going well. Oh, well, you know, you just sit there and pet the cat, get some Godfather vibes going, some Don Corleone. I was thinking of Dr. No or some kind of Bond villain look.

[00:01:49] Oh, yeah. All right. So your new comic that we're talking about today is Estuary. It is coming out through Oni Press. It's you and Tim Daniel on writing duties. Man House is the artist. Final Order Cutoff is March 16th. So listeners, if you're listening to this within the first week it comes out, that FOC date, Final Order Cutoff is very important. It's the date by which comic shops have to get their orders in. And that's a that's a big deal.

[00:02:19] So if you are listening to this and you want a copy of it, make sure you let your local shop know. But the book will be out April 8th. It's I've seen it described as, you know, a ghost story, a haunted house story. I don't know if it was the solicitor somewhere described it as a West Coast. Yeah. Kind of horror or haunted house story, which I have some questions about that. So I read the first issue. I really like the setup.

[00:02:48] Listeners on the podcast know regular listeners. I've said this before at various times when the topic has come up that I was raised Catholic, which whenever it's a sure identifier of somebody who doesn't practice anymore when they say I'm not that I am Catholic. I was raised Catholic, but I went to Catholic grade school, high school, college. And there's there's a very interesting religious undertone right off the bat from this that kind of piqued my interest.

[00:03:18] And yeah, I've man houses. Artwork is fantastic for this, like a little shadowy. I really love how he did all the scenes on the on the water because your main character Maris is kind of like an underwater archaeologist. I think she's described and those scenes on the boat were great. Really loved those. Because I loved all the background details, especially with the when we first meet the nun.

[00:03:46] And there always seems to be something going on like in the background, like just just behind Maris. But why don't you give listeners kind of like a rundown of what Estuary is about? Yeah, I think I think you kind of hit on a lot of the good parts of it. And definitely being raised Catholic, that is a big part of this book, you know, that you'll see as the series unfolds.

[00:04:12] That was definitely a central theme, you know, faith and and maybe lack of faith. And yeah, it's it's our our protagonist Maris has been hired to find a shipwreck off the coast that they think might have some Catholic relics in it. That would be good for this California mission. And I don't know, as a California kid, that's that's a term we heard a lot growing up was the missions.

[00:04:41] And, you know, where the Spanish came and set up forts basically and converted the native population and did their thing. And and you had to build one as a kid. Like that was every like fourth grader built a California mission out of popsicle sticks or something. So it's kind of I think that's why, you know, people are referring to it as a West Coast horror because very, very, very much embedded in the West Coast of California.

[00:05:09] OK, so that was like that was like a fourth grade project. Like, yeah, everybody did. Like, yeah. OK, yeah. You all made a mission. And like most of us went to Sutter's Fort, which was, you know, established during the gold rush, I believe. And, you know, all these things were kind of just part of growing up as Catholic in California. So I think that's why that West Coast horror really fits. We didn't come up with that.

[00:05:34] Somebody I think it was one of the first reviewers that I had sent out the comic to called it a West Coast horror. I'm like, that is just a perfect descriptor. And so Maris joins up with with a ship captain, a little charter captain hunt to to help her go out and find the shipwreck. And, you know, it turns into a love story, a horror story, a ghost story. It's a it's a mystery at heart, too.

[00:06:02] So it makes a little bit challenging to talk about anything past, you know, issue one, because there's going to be a lot of reveals. And I think you already picked up on a lot of the vibes that something's always going on behind Maris in the background. And as you finish the series and come back and read it again. So are you are are you haunted, David? Yes, that was a kid. That was the cat knocking stuff over in the background.

[00:06:32] Yes, I'm not editing that out. No, I think I think most hauntings. I would I would say most hauntings are cats for sure. Oh, OK. Yeah. And so I'm going to get rid of her real quick. Don't worry, listeners. David's just removing the cat from the room. He's not he's not doing anything untoward with the cat. All right. The cat is they want to be. Cat has now been. Yeah, has been exiled. They want to be with you desperately until they don't.

[00:07:02] And then, you know, she she howls outside the door. I'm like, oh, it'll be better just to leave her in here. She'll just chill. And she did not show. So. Well, so, yeah, that's all right. There's definitely a lot of mystery and. And, you know, a little bit of romance in this that we wanted to throw in there, too. So it's kind of a love story, plus a haunted. Maybe not house, but maybe haunted mission story.

[00:07:30] I was curious when I read the that line, the, you know, the West Coast horror story. And, you know, you've already mentioned a couple of things about growing up in California. And I'm glad we're talking about this now. I just returned from California. I was in San Diego. Oh, yeah. Pasadena and Anaheim. A nice week away from work. Well, part of it was like a work conference, but I had a very nice time in California. I have not been to California in like 20 years. So it was great to get back.

[00:07:59] To California. San Diego is beautiful. I got to see a friend and pass it and some friends in Pasadena, which was which was awesome. And so now we're here. We're talking about this. I'm just kind of curious. How much do you think growing up in California has shaped you as a writer and your writing? Because I've you'll hear certain writers or creators talk about, you know, whether or not you're writing books or television or movies, whatever the medium you're working in is.

[00:08:28] That the geography of where they grew up has an impact on how they developed as a writer. Do you think that there are certain things about your writing that speaks to you being a California kid, as you said? I think I think I think 100 percent, you know, and Tim also grew up in the same area. We both grew up. He was more of a Bay kid and I'm more of a Central Valley kid.

[00:08:50] So, you know, I grew up in a very diverse, you know, area and and, you know, Central Valley, California has a lot of farmland. And so we have a lot of, you know, people there that own farms and people there that work farms. And, you know, all those people went to school together. And, you know, being around California, too, you're exposed to so many different climates.

[00:09:16] You know, you went to San Diego and you'll go to a nice, sandy, beautiful beach. But where where I'm from in in Central Northern California, you go to the beach and it's rocks and it's harsh and it's cold. And, you know, the ocean falls off quickly into this deep, deep, like scary place. It's not like going to the beach was not like cool when you are going to like like Bodega Bay or even even Monterey.

[00:09:43] You're not going, you know, there's surfers there, but there's not like you don't sunbathe and hang out. So it was a very different experience growing up with our kind of beach land. But, yeah, I think I think we always Tim and I is always are thinking of geography. You know, the setting is part of the is like a character definitely in what we write, you know, and, you know, in Crushed Up, the setting was this sub underwater in Morningstar.

[00:10:13] The setting was where Tim lives now in Montana and a national forest that he's been to many times. And, you know, in this one, the setting is, you know, kind of like a Monterey where we've both spent tons of time.

[00:10:29] And you get a feel for the place and the place has a mood and and that setting helps like amplify, I think, the horror or the creepiness or whatever, you know, because these places are really overcast. Overcast a lot of the times it's not beautiful, sunny San Diego. It's overcast. There's fog.

[00:10:53] There's there's microclimates and little areas where you'll be in rain and then you'll come through the rain and it'll be sunny and bright and beautiful. And then the fog will come in. And so it's this very kind of very specific kind of mood that you get from from the setting of this story and other stories that I've worked on.

[00:11:15] I think I think it definitely makes a difference growing up where I spent time in a valley, in the mountains, in the ocean on a fairly regular basis because everything is so close to where I live. You can go to San Francisco an hour and a half. You can go to Tahoe in an hour and a half. You can go to Yosemite in a couple hours. You know, you have all these different places that and my parents were big road trippers. So we would just drive everywhere driven all over this place. Yeah.

[00:11:43] I mean, as road trippers, like every summer, like a vacation or like a couple of times a year. Well, every yeah, well, probably every summer we did something. But every other summer when I was a kid, we had a family reunion and it was my mom's side of the family, which is spread out everywhere except for California. They're in Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi and Ohio and New York. And we would drive. And so we drove to Arkansas. We drove to Colorado. We drove to Kentucky. You know, we drove all across the country.

[00:12:13] And so you've got to kind of see everything from the side of a, you know, from the back of a station wagon facing in the way back, you know, or sleeping for the first half of the trip. Well, yeah, we would go to Yellowstone. We went to Tahoe a bunch, you know, and San Francisco, of course, and Santa Cruz, which is kind of the nicest kind of beachy kind of thing you'll get up here. But yeah, pretty quickly gets rocky and cold.

[00:12:42] And, you know, I like the California coast. It's, I don't know, it's perfect for having a little place with a fire and like walking on the beach with a little bit of mist and a little bit of fog. And it's creepy and weird with the cypress trees that grow like crooked because of the constant, the constant onshore wind.

[00:13:10] And so it's very, very specific place, you know. Yeah. So we tried to kind of put that into the book as much as possible. Yeah, I mean, it's very, I felt very atmospheric, like I felt the atmosphere of it, like reading it. It's I really there was a lot to it that I felt was, you know, centered about the place.

[00:13:33] Whereas and maybe that's why I get the sense of like haunted house or haunted mission, mission, because you think of a haunted house story, which the place of it, you know, it's not like a slasher film where they follow you around or not like some other type of horror or mystery or suspenseful, where the setting maybe doesn't matter. It's more character driven or the mystery of it. Like this feels very much like the place where this is happening is kind of important. And I felt that reading it. Yeah.

[00:14:01] And it's the, you know, it's the age of it, too. Like, again, 300, 400 years of history. You don't get that in a lot of places in America in general. You know, you live in a in an area that does have some pretty old structures, you know, but a big swath of the country doesn't have anything that's more than 100 years old. Right.

[00:14:21] And so like this part of California is the only part where you get this deep, deep, deep kind of history where you can think, oh, there are definitely spirits here. There's definitely history. There's been death here. There's been terrible things that have happened here. There's the, you know, the ground is blood soaked. You know, so it's it's it that all played a part in in choosing of the location and then the location should helping choose the story that you're going to write.

[00:14:51] You know, it's all it's all weaved together. You know, you couldn't we couldn't tell this story in a different location. Okay. When you are, you know, plotting out and putting stuff and pitches together for like the different books that that you've done. Do you think about like the kind of like the order or trajectory of your work?

[00:15:15] Or is it just like, you know, as as as somebody who's, you know, freelancing it like I just want to see something get picked up. I'm not thinking about, oh, is it weird that I'm following up estuary with, you know, following up red vector with estuary. Right. Right. Is there any sense of that to how you work? Um, so I think the only time we really thought about that was we had our mad cave deal and that was a three book deal.

[00:15:42] And, um, when we pitched to mad cave, we wanted to give them a variety. We wanted to give them, okay, this is what we can do with horror. This is what we can do with like sci-fi. And this is what we can do with, you know, body horror or whatever, you know, we wanted to give them a little bit of variety that they fortunately picked all three that we had pitched them.

[00:16:05] But there definitely was thought about, and for me, um, there's always, you know, Tim loves horror. And so he'll always come back around to horror and I'm always trying to pull us to like fantasy or sci-fi. And so there was that active thought of like, okay, I love, I mean, if I get pigeonholed as a horror writer, fine. I'll write horror for the rest of my career. If someone gives me a book.

[00:16:32] Um, but a lot of my, you know, a lot of my happy places in sci-fis and, uh, fantasy is in a little bit of comedy. Um, you know, and, and, and so do we, we have those pitches too. It just kind of happenstance, the ones that kind of, we felt the most prepared for the most ready for have been the ones that we have presented, you know?

[00:16:54] So, um, we're always in the process of like, you know, I pitched Tim two different ideas the last two weeks and he liked them both. And one probably is firmly in kind of creature, not really kind of like horror.

[00:17:14] Um, and, and, and one is like, you know, sci-fi and, and so, you know, we'll kind of pitch each other stuff and, and whatever one, either one of us can't stop thinking about or really wants to work on is the one that wins. So, um, a lot of that will be like, uh, you know, things with the horror element. Like I like things that are dramatically exciting and, and that a lot of times leads things to be scary.

[00:17:43] You know, um, you know, I always like, like aliens as the movie and like predator and those kind of, and, and those are definitely, you could quantify them as sci-fi. You can put them in as action or you could put them in as horror. Right. So, yeah. Oh, sure. I always like things that have a little bit of edge to them. So yeah, we'll always kind of fall in those camps.

[00:18:06] Um, in, it would, in this case, there was a very specific ask from Oni, you know, Oni kind of came out, uh, because Tim's relationship with Bess, our editor, um, she kind of reached out to us and said, you know, we have, we want to work with you. And, and, and maybe you guys want to work with man house. And when you put those kinds of things together, it's like, okay, this is going to be a horror story. Cause man is just so great at like the darks and the shadows and the mood.

[00:18:36] Um, he really leads you into this kind of horror realm. Um, and that kind of, for, for this particular project really shaded the, um, our choices with the pitch. Okay. Yeah. And especially, uh, man was great in terms of the, the, the transition as well. And I don't know how much of that was like in the writing and then in terms of how man interpreted it.

[00:19:00] But the, um, I, I mean, I call like, I call it like a cold open or what, you know, the, the opening of the comic. We don't, and at the end of the first issue, I'll just say that you don't, you still don't really know a whole lot about what the opening is, is about. Um, but there is like a great transition from what we see to Maris kind of, uh, you know, lighting candles and in the, um, I guess the chapel of the mission.

[00:19:27] Um, and, and, and, and praying. And you, you, you understand that faith is a part of this because of her conversation with the sister that comes to, to, to talk to her. And it's a very interesting conversation, um, kind of about faith, about she's Matt. We find Maris like trying to pray, I think is how she, she phrases it as if, you know, it's not just.

[00:19:50] You, you see sometimes or, or, you know, the aspect of, well, I don't know if my prayers are being heard or if they're being answered, but we, we see it from a slightly different perspective than that, where she seems to be struggling with. You know, engaging in the act of prayer itself, which I found, you know, kind of fascinating. There's certainly some type of, you know, it informs us as a reader.

[00:20:16] There's certainly some type of backstory here and, um, which gets, you know, and she has this very interesting conversation with sister. Um, I can't remember. It's a B with a D I think. Darcy. Well, Darcy. Yeah. Yeah. So with the sister, with sister Darcy, and then there's some more interesting things that I don't want to spoil that happen. Later on in, in, in issue one. But I mean, I really liked that dynamic and that aspect of it.

[00:20:41] I, I, I, I really liked the flirtatious nature of Maris's and, and Hunt's relationship, like, like right off the bat when they're, they're on the boat. Um, and you know, and he calls her Stella Maris, which also has like, you know, religious implications, of course. So there's all these things happening that I was very, very, um, intrigued by and really kind of got into the, that, the mystery of it.

[00:21:10] And what is this wreck that she's diving for about? Like, why does the sister know about it? What is she looking for exactly? Yeah. I really enjoyed it, you know, really, really liked it. And you're asking all the right questions because all that stuff will be answered. Um, yeah, definitely, you know, I definitely wanted to set Maris up as someone who is, you know, struggling with that faith. Right. That's, that was very specific choice of words that she was, you know, trying to pray. She's not praying.

[00:21:39] She doesn't know if she's praying or not. She doesn't know if she's doing it right. Is someone who's been raised Catholic and is, has gone through those motions her whole life, but maybe not fully believed anything. And now she's reaching out for some kind of lifeline in a difficult time.

[00:21:56] Um, and, you know, I think we can all, you know, kind of relate to trying to find something, you know, in this world gone crazy that they can kind of hold onto and have some comfort. Um, and so this is, that's, that's her at that moment, trying to, trying to reach out and figure out like, Hey, it was all this stuff that I learned as a kid, you know, worth it. Does it have any value?

[00:22:21] And, and, um, yeah, some of that will be explored through the series. Oh, nice. Um, someone that, you know, cause you grew up in California, as you, you talked about, were you someone that loved like being out on the water? Like we're, we're being out on boats. Like, have you ever gone snorkeling, scuba diving, ever dove a wreck? Have you ever done any of that? I, I have, uh, uh, I've gone snorkeling in the ocean exactly one time.

[00:22:50] And I had a near panic attack and got the F out of there because it was completely overwhelming. And one, I could see too much and I couldn't see enough. And, you know, I, you know, you're, you're dipped in this 360 degree world that you're not used to paying attention to all these locations and, and, and positions.

[00:23:16] You know, you have to look, not just scan the horizon for danger. You got to look down up behind you constantly. And, uh, it was off La Jolla Cove in San Diego, which is like, okay. Very peaceful, easy places to, and I'm like, I'm out of here. I'm gone. And, and yeah, it took me all about 20 minutes to have a full blown panic attack and then leave. Oh, wow.

[00:23:41] And I have gone, I've gone water skiing in the bayou with snapping turtles and alligators. And, you know, my, my parents, like my, my family, like I said, is from the South and, and spread out. Well, my grandparents on my dad's side are from, uh, Mississippi and Louisiana. Uh, and, and when my grandpa would take us out, he didn't want to go very far in his boat.

[00:24:03] So we just went into the backyard, which had a boat launch in the backyard that went to the bayou and you can get out to the Gulf of Mexico in about 15 minutes. And he would just tool us around basically his neighborhood. And it was like water skiing in a street. It was only like 30 feet wide and there's logs and stuff everywhere. And you just did it enough to, you fell one time or you got tired and then he took you back in. And it was like a 20 minute, uh, 20 minute, uh, water skiing adventure.

[00:24:33] And then when you fell, you're fell, you're like, come get me, come get me, come get me. Cause you're afraid of water moccasins and snapping turtles and garfish and whatever else is lurking in the. Like murky depths of the, the bayou. So yeah, I've, I've been in, yeah. Water, you know, obviously we went through crush depth and now we're back in the water with estuaries. Yeah. And I'm still freaked out by it.

[00:24:59] So yeah, the water, uh, and, and you'll see in the first issue, you know, there is some, you know, you get, you get into this Monterey Bay water and it could be so murky and so silty that you can't see a foot in front of your face. And, um, it's not like, you know, going to the Caribbean and, and Virgin islands and this crystal clear water, you can see everything.

[00:25:25] Um, something can sneak up right behind you, you know, and you would never know. Uh, yeah, there was a certain, uh, I was thinking about crush depth because there is a certain aspect as of like claustrophobia, you know, being in the, uh, submarine being and like being surrounded by, by dark water. I mean, I, I, I, I have self diagnosed myself with, I think it's, uh, philosophophobia.

[00:25:54] Philosophobia is the fear of deep water. Yeah. So I've, you know, I've, I've gone in the ocean before, but I don't know that I could ever like, like scuba dive, uh, uh, a wreck or, or, you know, something like that. I've, I've gone snorkeling and it's funny. I've gone snorkeling off of St. Thomas and the Virgin islands. There you go. It's just beautiful. I've gone snorkeling in, in Hawaii and the water is, you know, you can see the bottom. It's really beautiful.

[00:26:24] And I've, I've calmed myself enough that I could have a good time with it. And I saw some sea turtles. I saw some stingrays. I saw a bunch of fish, but, um, my brother and perfect time now to shout out Bobby, the Hey Bobby. Cryptid Crater Corners. Number one. Number one. Number one. Bobby listens to all my episodes. So Bobby got, uh, he's, he's a real jerk. Cause he had a destination wedding and made us all go to Aruba. So he could get married.

[00:26:53] Um, and we went snorkeling off of Aruba, but we went in like deep water and they told us, I don't know how far down it was, but like, if you look down while you were snorkeling, like just in the depths, you could see a ship that I think had sunk during world war two. You could just see the outline of it. And I'm like, I've been snorkeling before. This should be fine.

[00:27:19] I know it's deeper than anywhere I've been snorkeling before, but just seeing the outline of that wreck. I mean, I was like shaggy and Scooby where I popped up and I think I just ran on tiptoes across the water to get, to get back to the boat. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, you know, Monterey too has this really quick shelf that just drops deep almost immediately after the, so people don't like snorkeling and, and, and swimming.

[00:27:49] There is very dangerous because you're getting these deep, deep currents, you know? And, and yeah, I feel like it's almost like this, like, like you said, with crush depth, it's this claustrophobia of being in an enclosed space and nothing but, you know, things that can kill you outside that space. But this is removing that metal and still having everything around you that could kill you. It's almost like a, I don't know, like a reverse claustrophobia where there's too much,

[00:28:15] there's too much space and there's too much, like an, like an agoraphobia. There's too much space. There's too many things around you. There's too many directions. Something can come at you. Um, and yeah, I try to really harness some of that, um, for the, the diving scenes in this book. All right, everybody, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Y'all Jimmy, the chaos goblin strikes again. I should have known better than to mention.

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[00:29:39] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you. And big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. Were you concerned at all when you and Tim were putting the first issue together in terms of how much to kind of tease what the overall mystery is and how much you wanted to hold back? How did you kind of... That's kind of a fine line because it's a first issue.

[00:30:09] First issues are big because you want somebody to come back for issue two. So how did you solve that problem? I think you did a nice job because there was plenty of meat on the bone for me where I'm like, oh yeah, I want to see issue two. I want to know what she's looking for. There were enough questions that I could ask, but kind of did you have any concern with that and how did you do what you did? Yeah, this was a lot of long conversations about how much do we show? How much do you tell?

[00:30:38] And there should be a lot of things that are there that you can go back later and read deeper into and see why maybe certain people are having the reactions they're having and why certain people are doing certain things. And yeah, that was...

[00:31:02] You try to give hints through maybe the art of what you can see and what you can't see and how people are interacting and things like that. But there's definitely stuff that we wanted to make sure we teased enough to feel like you weren't getting cheated. Like there wasn't some big, oh, there's no way anybody could see this twist coming.

[00:31:29] And also not like spell it out for you in issue one. So that is really hard. I'm not a... I don't consider myself a mystery writer. Like I'm not writing the next glass onion or something like that. You know, I can't... My brain doesn't really work that way. I don't try to figure out mysteries while I'm watching them on TV. I'm just like, cool, let's see what happens. So there was a lot of discussion about, okay, let's put this here. Let's not have them say this yet.

[00:31:59] And let's move that to maybe the second or third issue to make sure that we're not giving it all the way in the first issue, but also not being so obscure that when people see the twist, they're going to go, well, that was dumb. That was just... He was a vampire the whole time. And it's like, no, that's not what's going to happen. Yeah. What is it? Like with the show Lost, like they were in purgatory the whole time. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:29] It makes sense. Sure. Who's... I do love Lost, but I know that was a criticism of it. Whose idea was it to have the tour group of... In the beginning of the book, the tour group and the mission at the back? Because I thought, yeah, this is just what would happen. And they're leading their tour. And I'm like, oh, but it's... I mean, a little bit of attention is called to it, but it's like, oh, one of the nuns

[00:32:59] is leading the tour group. And then it's referenced later on that they have Pilates, certified, I think, Pilates instructor nuns. Yes. And everyone in the tour group is excited about mimosas. And I'm like, yes, of course. But I thought the certified Pilates instructor nuns was a nice touch. Who did that? I believe that was me. I'm pretty sure that was me. Yeah. I wanted to be like this...

[00:33:28] You know, we are going to weave a lot of social media stuff kind of into the stories. Strangely enough, it is kind of like a call out to our social media heavy... Like how libraries are using social media to advertise themselves, how museums and everything. And it's like this new kind of world.

[00:33:51] And almost disrespectful to the places you go to not be present in them. And to just be there for the clicks and the likes. And you see all these beautiful places or places where tragedies happened. And you're just there taking selfies. And I guess it's a little bit of my old man coming out that you should be there. And you should be present. And you should be respectful.

[00:34:21] You know, like you're walking... Basically, they're walking through a graveyard taking selfies. And I think we may fall into that trap too sometimes when you're just looking at cool places to go visit. And you're doing it for the cool picture you're going to post later. Instead of being just there and present. And even being respectful of maybe the lives that were lost there.

[00:34:49] And understanding the history of where you are. And the terrible things that might have been done where you're standing. And I don't know. I think a little bit of that is coming out in this. A little bit of my old man grumpiness. But yeah, I wanted to come up with as many stupid sister nun activities as I could. Because they're trying to get in...

[00:35:17] You know, they're trying to get that tourist money. You know, this is not something people would normally go to if they weren't forced to go there for school. So they're pushing into the 21st century here in Estuary. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just thought it was very... It was a little funny in terms of the Pilates instructors nuns. But no, I do get your point. I mean, I remember it was probably 10... Maybe 10 years ago or so.

[00:35:46] I remember reading an article about... I think she was like some type of influencer who posted a selfie of herself. Like at either like Dachau or Auschwitz. Like the Nazi concentration camp. And it's just like, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, what are you doing? Yeah.

[00:36:10] But you have the idea of you were in these like historical reverent places or like you said, places that are essentially like terrible tragedies happen. Yeah. And yeah, you're concerned with the social media. Let's shoot our video. Let's do a TikTok here. Influencer of it all. Yeah. But I just thought there's a lot of little interesting things that I very much enjoyed.

[00:36:37] So if I had a question and I was just thinking about because of some of like your other books and some of your other protagonists that you have had. If you were to investigate a mystery or to try and tackle something like Maris is, is there any of your characters from some of your other books that you would definitely want with you? Like by your side? I think... From any of your other books? Yeah. I don't know what my answer would be.

[00:37:08] I'm curious if you had one. Well, I think... Oh, geez. Farsine from Red Vector is like the smartest person on this planet. So, you know, I would definitely want a little bit of his brainpower and maybe Charlie from Morningstar for his unique time of creativity. I think those two for sure. Okay.

[00:37:31] Um, cause, uh, I was, um, I was thinking that like, uh, I, I would want Beck from Resident. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you wanted some ass kicked for sure. Yeah. Beck is, yeah. Beck is the kind of like the, the gold standard, I think for, uh, protagonists. I mean, she, she took over that series for sure.

[00:37:59] And, you know, anybody who can, uh, jury together a flamethrower during the apocalypse kind of deserves some respect. Yeah. I, I, I agree. She was, she was smart too. So, um, but yeah, I was just thinking about that. Speaking of Resident, I wanted to tell you that I, when I was out in California, I was visiting my friend, uh, Keith and his wife, uh, Jill. And, uh, you know, Keith is in the entertainment industry.

[00:38:26] He was on TV and now he, he's still on TV and he directs television. And, and so I was asking him about that. And he was asking me about comics and I was like, have you read like any like recent comics? And he's like, no, not really. I said, oh, well let me send you some. Um, so I put together a, when we got back home, I put together a care package of comics that I thought Keith would like.

[00:38:47] Um, and, uh, I included the, the full series of Resident in, uh, in the, in the box. Uh, so, so hopefully I think Keith will enjoy that. But I, I was trying to think what the stuff that Keith, Keith would be into and put together, uh, I got some Resonance, some Philadelphia, first volume of Bitter Root. So, um, I think he'll, I think he'll be occupied for a little bit, but yeah, had to, had to include Resonance.

[00:39:17] I think he, I think he'd really like it. So just wanted to let you know that I was, I was thinking of you when I was, uh, him, his comic care package. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that seems to be one that kind of still has legs that still people kind of discover and kind of message me about like, man, I really liked that. I'm like, oh, cool. It's nice that, you know, my first thing is still a good thing. Yeah, it is. It is. It's nice. Your first thing is still a good thing. I like that. Um, well, you know, they always tell you like, oh, your first thing's going to suck.

[00:39:47] I'm like, okay, well that, that's terrible to hear. Well, here's my first thing. Uh, you know, you'll get better as you know, and hopefully I'm getting. Better. Uh, but, but I don't know. I, I, that, you know, your first thing, you have so much time to think about it. So much time, you know, it's like your first album as a musician, right? It's that, it's that second album that usually people go, oh, that's their worst. And then they start to slowly climb back up because you have so much time to mess around on that first thing.

[00:40:14] There's, you know, no deadlines and, you know, you're writing it for yourself. You're not writing it, um, in any idea that it's, you know, at that time that it was going to get made into anything. So, you know, there's a lot of like freedom and time you can spend on that first thing and you can really fidget with it and, you know, make it, make it, you know, as perfect as possible. And, you know, unfortunately you do sometimes your later stuff is under a deadline and you can't go back as many times as you want.

[00:40:43] And it comes out how it comes out and, you know, I try to make everything good, but yeah, it's nice that the first thing is still decent. Yeah. Well, I mean, I, you know, I've, you've been on the podcast that like we, you know, five times, so five times. So, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan. I mean, if I didn't like your stuff, it'd be exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. You got to talk to this guy. I told, I'd be like, I'd be like messaging Byron's like, ah, I told David I'd have him

[00:41:12] on again. Well, I keep trying to make everybody happy and keep trying to write books. I mean, that's really all you're trying to do the whole time is write something good. Yeah. And, and no, we're not trying to hit some invisible mark, you know, we're not trying to check some boxes, but, uh, Tim and I are just writing stuff that we love, you know, and, um, hopefully people like it, you know, um, we just, you know.

[00:41:39] I mean, I like, I like the three books you did at man cave, you know, that we, you were on talking about and, and they're there, as you said, they're all a little different. I just think, I think morning star is another one I tell people about because when like some folks are like, oh, they, they still make comics and what are they like morning morning star is one that I think has a little bit of that touch of nostalgia. And yeah, it's, it's just, it's, it's a weird book. It's a weird, good book that it's like, yeah, you, you have no idea what this is going to be, but it's a really good story.

[00:42:07] Uh, Marco's art is like next level. And, um, it's, it's just one that I really, uh, you know, really, really love. Yeah. If, you know, if people wonder like, oh, how much of this is Tim and how much is this is David? The weirder it is that the more it's Tim, the more normal and like straightforward it is, the more it's me. So it's a nice balance because he pulls me over from being just a straightforward, like linear storyteller, which is, you know, how I fall into storytelling.

[00:42:36] It's just like this happens and this happens and this happens, this happens. Tim's like, well, what if we did this and this flashback happened here and this out here? I'm like, what? Okay. And I'll trust you and just start writing. So, uh, yeah, Tim is, Tim is definitely pulling me to the, to the weird, uh, parts, which I really enjoy. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think it works, you know, the, your writing partnership definitely works. So, I mean, the, the books have been phenomenal and it is an interesting, like, you know, push

[00:43:06] and pull in terms of that dynamic. But, um, yeah, I can't wait to see, you know, where, where this goes. And I know it's kind of tough to tease anything with like a four issue mystery, but, um, the first issue was great. So, yeah. And that's a, that's a giant size first issue. So I think it's a 28 pages instead of 22 pages. So, uh, we get to spend a little bit more time with like setting things up.

[00:43:34] And like I said, first issues are hard because you want to give enough and not give away everything. You want people to come back for the second issue. Um, you don't want it to be a ton of just exposition and talking, but try to make the relationship interesting because that's, that's kind of the heart of the book and the mystery appealing to come back and kind of figure out what's going on. And like you said, that cold open, we will come back around to that cold open.

[00:44:01] I promise that's not just something to get you to, to pick up the book, but it's a very cool first three pages. I love the first three, three pages of this book. It definitely is. It definitely is. So that was, uh, that was very fun. That was kind of, uh, we knew exactly how this book was going to start from the beginning. Oh, awesome. Awesome. Well, uh, David, thank you for coming on the podcast again. We'll, we'll, we'll get your address. We'll send you the jacket or five timers. Okay.

[00:44:31] The five timers, whatever we're going to do, but I feel like we should definitely do something. Um, uh, because I, like I said, there's, there's only been a few that have had five or, or, or more appearances. And oddly enough, I think, I, I think three of them are David's, which is just really weird. Cause I think out of our, I think looking back, I think the person who's been on the most is probably Steve Fox. I know I'm coming to Steve Fox. I'm coming for it.

[00:44:59] By Byron's interviewed Steve. I haven't at all, but Byron's interviewed him like a number of times, like maybe seven or eight he's been on. And then I really think our next three people are like you, David Pepos and David Buerk. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're all California guys too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. They're both, they're both LA and yeah, we've, we've had jokes about how many Davids there are in comics. I was, I know you're at, at a Cape and Cal con in Oakland.

[00:45:29] There was four Davids within touching distance of each other in one row. It was me and David Baker and David Buerk and David brothers. And, and it's like, there's so many Davids here. So many Davids. That's why I have the DB in my name. So people can just, Oh, that's not a David. That's a DB. Let's yeah, you do. You do have that, but, um, well, uh, uh, listeners estuary only press final order.

[00:45:58] Cut off is March 16th. Let your shop know, but Hey, even if it's, you're listening to this and it's past final order cutoff, still let your shop know that you want it. Um, four issues, uh, issue one will be out April 8th. It's a really interesting, uh, mystery series. Uh, man houses, artwork is phenomenal. And, you know, especially if, uh, you were, you know, raised Catholic, uh, or, um, uh, and

[00:46:25] you like underwater archeology, mystery, ghost stories, like any, anything in along those lines, I think you're going to like, even if you like really, you know, kind of a character driven, uh, suspenseful. This is for you as well. It's a very interesting first issue that I really dug. So David, uh, thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming back on the podcast again. Yes. I'll be here for number six.

[00:46:52] Um, and there's three different, I think, orderable covers. So there's a, there's, uh, Tim has a cover. So, uh, the kind of the blue nun cover is Tim's. Uh, so I would really love for people to order a lot of Tim's cover because it's pretty cool that my co-writer, uh, gets to have a cover in our book. Uh, so look at the different covers that are available. Uh, there's a couple of like ratio incentive covers, but the ones that, um, I think a,

[00:47:21] B and C are all orderable directly from lunar. Uh, so get those orders in. All right. Couldn't have said it better myself. Go. Uh, thank, thank you listeners. Thank you for listening. Rate, review us, doing that stuff they tell you to do for podcasts. Uh, it really does help us a lot. Um, uh, you can find me on blue sky. Uh, let me know what you're reading, especially if you're reading any of David's books. I really, uh, would like to hear from you and yeah, thank you so much. And thanks for listening.

[00:47:51] Uh, I'll see you next time. Good night. Bye Bobby. This is Byron O’Neal. One of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics cave.

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