John Lees Interview - Orla

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview. I don't know about you, but I've never considered a biting tarantula familiar a good thing? Then again, when it comes to necromancy, there's always a price for power, especially when raising the dead.

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[00:01:38] so you don't miss the comic that's redefining life on the bright side of death. Hello, and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I'm excited to have a returning guest. He's been on the podcast before and for some reason wanted to come back.

[00:02:02] But you might remember, and a podcast guest, I apologize, but if you're seeing this on YouTube, I have my copy of The Trade of the Nasty, which was what we were talking about the last time this guest was on. But he has a new comic with some of my favorite creators, including artist Sally Cantorino. This is through Mad Cave. It's called Orla. It's out August 6th. Please welcome back to the podcast, John Lees. John, how you doing?

[00:02:31] Oh, I feel even better now that I see you've got your own copy of The Nasty on hand. Yeah, I love that. I got a copy of The Trade of it sitting right here. Just maybe we'll talk about a little bit a little later on, but I want to jump right into your new comic with Mad Cave. It's Sally Cantorino's doing the artwork. It's colored by Zadir Blachelli.

[00:02:59] And then Lucas Gattoni. Gattoni getting the letters. Yeah, is lettering. So fantastic creative team. I'm a huge fan of Sally's work and some of the other stuff that she's done. Like I Walk With Monsters was one I really enjoyed. Yeah, I've been a fan of Sally since I Walk With Monsters. Like I think I read that book and I've wanted to work with her ever since then. So getting to work with her on this is a dream. Yeah.

[00:03:29] I mean, she did another series with Peter Milligan. Peter Milligan wrote. She did the art for. Oh, Human Remains. Human Remains. Yeah, yeah. Human Remains. That's right. Thank you. So yeah, this is. So very excited by the creative team. I was a big fan of your work on The Nasty and some of the other comics that you've written. Thank you. So yeah, I was. I didn't know what to expect by Orla. I didn't read. I like to not to read too much about things.

[00:03:59] If I'm going to interview somebody before, like just read the comic. Let's talk about it. But no preconceived notions of what I'm going to be. You're like the actual ideal test case that I want to talk to. Because like as part of like the whole like writing a like synopsis or a blurb for like the solicitors or whatever, we kind of have to give some of the game away. Like just in terms of pitching the book. But you're going into it completely blind. Like, you know, maybe you're like the ideal like game of person to talk to. But anyway, what's that? Well, here's what I will say.

[00:04:28] And it's funny because some of the things that I think the book is kind of getting at you know, my wife and I talk about. Oh, because we have two daughters. Right. And so my kids are they're young. They're 12 and eight. But, you know, my my wife talks about like. And I've mentioned this before on different, different comics and talking to different creators. Like one of the things we've talked about is like sometimes she'll be like, I want to go for a run.

[00:04:57] And I'm like, let's go for a run at this park. She's why I don't want I don't want to go for a run by myself at that park. Yeah. Talk about how there are things that women think about that men don't ever think about. And in terms of dating with your your opening to it, there are things that I know as a man, I don't like ever consider. And like you really get a little and I bring that up because you kind of get a snapshot

[00:05:24] with with Orla in the very beginning when you introduce the character. She is just on a bunch of dates with like the worst. Just like like just this hair. I mean, the one guy has like a men's rights T-shirt on. And even the guy that seems kind of like, OK, there are, you know. So red flag is, you know, like like like clearly.

[00:05:54] And like so the first thing that struck me not knowing too much about it and like what Orla was about is that, wow, like there is just a ton of bad out there in like the modern dating scene that I am like 20 years removed from. But I just can't I can't imagine one being in it as a man even. But I really just have no concept of a woman going into like the modern like dating pool.

[00:06:24] And then as you get into the comic, there's like a particular reason for Orla as to why she seems to court these very undesirable like individuals. I mean, not to give too much away. And I know that some writers or some creators have an issue with my comic or my story or my movie or whatever is is like like this meets this, you know, but it but it is a bit of like.

[00:06:52] Yeah, I can't think of a equivalent of just like single woman out there on the dating market. Like I'm going to use like an old reference, like Caroline in the city, like Leah Thompson's like Caroline in the city or something. But yeah, Dexter with with with with an even and even like bigger twist than than that, which you kind of get into in the comic pretty quickly. Yeah, like it's not too much my spoiler to say that.

[00:07:20] They've been the premise of all is like everyone who hasn't heard of it is like kind of rom com creature feature mashup about this woman all aboard who is navigating Seattle singles dating scene while dealing with loneliness, anxiety and the fact that she comes into a giant monster and eats men. Supposed to kind of like navigates towards kind of like trying to get the scummiest men out of the dating pool to help other women. Yeah. I mean, talk about taking like the subtext and clearly making it text in terms of the comic.

[00:07:51] But I want to focus on the beginning. So the premise out of the way, because those like that first page, your first introduction is all from Orla's perspective of these like six guys that she is on date. And like in particular, Sally does a really good job because they're like every guy has like kind of a different diverse look and they are each terrible for their own reason.

[00:08:19] And one of the things that I think really struck me reading through it is that it's to me reading it. They're all all six of them are awful. And. What I the next thought I had after I realized that they're all awful is I really don't think you delved too much into caricature or hyperbole to make them awful. Yeah. Which is that really upset me.

[00:08:47] I mean, let's say probably like most of those interpretations were probably like sanitized from what you'd read in an average, like, you know, like Reddit dating page of people's bad day stories or like. Yeah. Yeah. Because you often see this, but it's like, like, I remember one point on Twitter I used to follow, it was like, you know, like a kind of like a Twitter page that kind of had like the best kind of highlights of like, you know, like dating advice, Reddit.

[00:09:14] And it was always inevitably like, you know, like the men and the thing were like, you know, like that, that's, you know, like my girlfriend of five years is putting a little bit of weight, like should I dump her? And then like, you know, and then like the women are like, you know, like this guy's perfect in every single way, apart from the fact that he kills dogs in the weekend. Like, you know, I'm overreacting. Just can just show you what I can have dynamics in a play. Absolutely.

[00:09:42] Like anyone who is like going through Reddit a little bit or even like, I can't remember. I apologize. I can't remember the name of the creator, but there's a guy on TikTok who I think is, they call him the green flag guy and he does like, or a red flag guy, but hold, hold, hold like stitch other TikTok videos with people saying like things have happened or complaining or whatever. And he'll, you know, he's running around in the background with a, with a red flag.

[00:10:10] And it's just like, um, yeah, like it's, it's unbelievable. Like the things that are sometimes excused in, in terms of, uh, behavior. Um, and I, I love that. And now there is like kind of like a shorthand for certain things. Like you, you just have one character that asks, like, is she into crypto? No, that's weirdly the most dated part of the book.

[00:10:37] Cause like I wrote this like back in 2023, like anybody, the bubble, so far away, bust by now that I got him. Maybe that same guy probably was in the end. Yeah. You know, like if I was doing the company. Yeah. Uh, yeah, absolutely. He's, he's probably like AI guy or what, but I still think like that just paints a picture of somebody like that shorthand now that it's like, Oh, I don't like, what is that guy, you know, doing?

[00:11:00] Um, but yeah, we, so we, well, she kind of been after, after, after page one and we just get this introduction from Orla's perspective of these, these six guys. And then she ends up, you know, one walks her home and, and we kind of really get into, you know, the heart of, uh, of, of the comic. And, um, he kind of like see a bit of more of like Orla's life and what her whole deal is.

[00:11:28] And then, um, but what I, I mean, I, the thing is though, like other than turning into a man eating monster, um, Orla seems great. I mean, she's nobody's the way Sally has drawn her, the way you guys have designed her. She, she's absolutely adorable. Um, she seems to have like a little crush maybe with somebody that, that owns a bookshop

[00:11:55] near, uh, you know, near her shop where she restores antique furniture. She brings them like, I don't know, a pastry or a croissant or something. An almond croissant. Yeah. An almond croissant. Quinn who runs the bookshop. Um, and, and so there's this really kind of sweetness to her.

[00:12:21] You know, when we see her interact with somebody who is not like a terrible, like man in the dating pool, but you've also infused her with this darkness, not, not just the monster part of it. Like there, there's a terrifying, I thought, or, or, and, and like deeply sad scene where she's trying to figure out a picture for her dating profile. And she is absolutely awful to herself.

[00:12:48] Like she is, I mean, mean does not begin to describe how the, the terrible thing she says like to herself in the mirror and it is, you go from like wondering like what, what her deal is that she does this. And, and is, is she not just a, you know, a liberal monster, but you know, is it, is it

[00:13:13] okay in terms of what she's doing to seeing how she has this kind of sweet, sensitive, awkward side? I felt unbelievably sad, like going through that, like there's, there's layers upon layers to like, or, or less mental health. And I am very concerned about moving forward. I mean, that page is talking about with like the sort of like montage of her taking, like

[00:13:40] looking through the pictures and like, you know, trying to find a nice selfie, like that for me, using the character kind of like got unlocked for me. Like I kind of felt like before that I had a kind of like concept or like, you know, an elevator pitch. I think that was the page where I figured out like who Orla is and like, you know, like what, how, you know, like, you know, like someone who's like, you know, like fundamentally like unhappy with themselves, like, you know, and like, you know, and it's, um, and obviously not to the same as the game, but I think like, you know, I've definitely had like, you

[00:14:07] know, like my share of like trying to look through, like, I could maybe like I've been invited to a convention or something to like, can you send us another picture? I've been trying to like look through like all my pictures, but I can't find one good picture of myself that I don't hate. Yeah. Right. And like, so it's not kind of like, so like somewhat, you know, like it's like, that's maybe something that's kind of like sort of universal or at least widely relatable. Um, and like, yeah, and I just wanted it to be that like, even aside from the whole like turning into a monster thing, like she's still like a very like human character.

[00:14:36] And I wanted people like, you know, to like Orla, even though like she's doing what that's killing. Um, and yeah, so like that was a big part of it kind of like, like the anxiety, like, you know, like the mental health struggles. And, um, I think that kind of like plays into like the whole like crux of the book, which is essentially this idea that like, obviously not to Orla's extent, but we all have like a

[00:15:04] monster inside of us in terms of like, you know, we all like, you know, curate a polished nice version of ourselves of public consumption, whether it be social media or when we go dating or when we're meeting a new friend or going for a job interview, we're all trying to present like the best version of ourselves. And then like, it becomes like, who do we want to allow to be close enough to like see us and all like our, like, you know, imperfection.

[00:15:29] Um, yeah, hopefully not like transforming into like a monster that keeps people in perfection, but the general like thesis is still there. Um, so yeah, I wanted to make sure that like outside of the monster side of things, we've seen like all this internal life and struggles and like she feels like a really nice character. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree with what you're saying because I, you know, understand like if you have, Oh, Hey, here's this, you know, we have this character.

[00:15:56] She, uh, she, she dates men who are, are terrible. And, um, you know, she has this monster inside of her, but she literally turns into a monster. And it's like, you know, so we, we, we explore, we explore modern dating. We, we explore like, you know, uh, you know, modern men in terms of the, the dating pool and, and how women, you know, the stuff they have to deal with and like very, like a very

[00:16:22] female kind of like centric, uh, uh, position, like obviously, but then yeah, that page when you, you realize like, Oh, there's like, there's a, there's a lot going on here. Like, like Orla has like issues with, you know, her self image that she is, I mean, struggling with a capital S, you know, with, um, and, and that is we've, we've, I think everybody

[00:16:51] listening to this podcast, you know, uh, has probably gone through that. I would say most people, like, I know I certainly do when you are trying to find a photo where you're unhappy with your, your image or the way you look or like whatever it might be. And like, I mean, or, or, or, is self, I don't know if it's self loathing or like it, it is intense. Like, and, and you and Sally, and then tie it, that tired the rest of the team, you know,

[00:17:21] and especially the colors as well. Like in Sally, the lettering when she threw that, it's rough. Yeah. All right. Go ahead. I was just going to say, just like jumping on what you were saying there about Sally is like Sally actually had like a really good insight, like connected to her. It wasn't me. It was hard to come up with this when we were doing an interview just, um, last week. And she was talking about like her approach to the Ek, who's like, um, Orla's monstrous alter ego. And she was saying like her take on, um, Orla is that she's someone who's like constantly

[00:17:51] trying to take up like less space. She's always trying to contract herself. She's always trying to kind of like look more presentable. She's always like, you know, worried about her image and how she looks and how she like interacts with other people. Um, and like the Ek is just like something that entirely just is all about consuming and like, you know, taking up as much space as it wants. Like it takes up a whole room, like, you know, and it eats and that's all it does, you know.

[00:18:18] And it's less, it's like all of the things that Orla kind of like buttons down and represses and kind of like, you know, as like, there's like that part of her that's like fully free. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, when, when the, when the, the Ek, which is great, you know, cause that word is as kind of like entered the lexical. I mean, it's been around for a while, but Ek as like an online term is like somebody does something and you get like that feeling of it, you know, it gave me the Ek or that person

[00:18:47] gave me the Ek when they did this and like to have the monster be named that. But yeah, when, when, when Orla's, when the Ek is first revealed, like we kind of, it's like two, I think it's only, it's like two panels that are kind of like in set where we kind of see it. And then the rest of that page, you see the Ek takes up most of the space in the room with the first man that, you know, she's in the room with. And it's an amazing design by Sally.

[00:19:15] Sally puts so much thought into that. The mind of like, I saw her mood board when she was developing that. She had like pictures of like goat, like a weird type of goat and like anglerfish. And she was drawn a lot of stuff from nature. Which I like, you know, I think it really comes across like an animal that's like really been thought out. Yeah. And it's interesting because what I like looking at the Ek, because the Ek, you know, has horns, claws, who still kind of maintains Orla's blonde hair, which I think is a wonderful touch. That was a surprise to me. Like Apple's not expensive now.

[00:19:45] But thinking of monster design from like Monsters, Inc., right? Yeah. As an example, Monsters, Inc., you know, has some phenomenal monster design where you see how they can be terrifying. But then you also see something like, you know, Sully, who kind of looks like cuddly at times. And like, I don't know, there's something about Orla where you think, man, if you change

[00:20:09] just like the, like had her smile, had the Ek smile or like one or two things, like the Ek could kind of be like, like totally different. Like it could be an imaginary best friend type of monster. Yeah. I think like, you know, like Sally's done such a good job of that. Like made her huggable, like, you know, her huggable, you know. So Sally like drilled down on like some of those details with the mouth and the teeth and the eyes. You're like, oh, oh no.

[00:20:37] But it's an interesting point. Like, you know, that like, and I guess like that's something that I hadn't really consciously thought about with the design, but it was probably in there like somewhere, which is like if so much of the book is about body image or like our image of ourselves, like, you know, the idea of like maybe like the Ek looks scary because it's tied so closely to like Niggab emotions or like, you know, fear of this, like in that little bit of tweak, like, you know, could make it into something totally different. And that's an interesting kind of idea to think about.

[00:21:07] Yeah. Yeah. I put the great first issue. I'm like a couple other things I want to point out just because I like I like when writers and artists I like when they put little little tiny things that if you're really paying attention, you will catch. So listeners just skip the next like minute or two. I don't want to be spoiled by a couple little touches, but I really want to spell it out because these are things that I just absolutely love.

[00:21:36] And it's born and I've said it on the podcast before. It's born from the fact that I'm a very fast reader and reading comics and especially to talk to people about comics. It has really focused me on try to slow down reading because it's a visual medium to spend time with visual stuff on the page. So at one point we see. The look is from behind Gwyn who has the bookshop looking at Orla and we see some little notes,

[00:22:05] some little like post-its on on that Gwyn has clearly posted up on the bookshop. I mean, you don't need these. Right. It just I don't know if this was you in the script or these are. Well, that little dad and some of them jokes are mine, but that specific one was Sally's. But there's there's one note like taped up and there's like three of them. But the first one says, note to self, dogs can't read. Stay about that as it says, notice, of course, can't read.

[00:22:34] There's another one after this, like birds question mark. And then like later on, when she goes back to the bookshop, there's a sign up for him saying teach your bird to read. Yeah, I know. Kudos to Sally. Sally, I I thought that was. Like, great, like what? What? Like we know we know nothing about Gwyn other than runs the bookshop, seems a little bit clumsy in terms of how Gwyn's introduced. Sally kind of clearly has a little bit of a thing for Gwyn.

[00:23:04] Gwyn seems like an actual decent person so far. Yeah. Who knows where it'll go from here? But at least Gwyn seems like like a nice person. But what what a fun little detail to think about. Like, what is going on in Gwyn's head that they needed that note? I just I thought that like what? Oh, I think it's just an important thing. We should all keep in mind. Yeah. Just put on life lessons. Do something. Yeah.

[00:23:35] Yeah. So I I really enjoyed like. Those kind of like, you know, little nods like that little touch I thought was like I always think it's fun. Um, the world building details. Right. Yeah. And that was something that we had a lot of fun with similar stuff in the nasty back in the day. We had all the fake video shop titles and all that. It's just like if you can have like a lot of things to kind of make our world feel more lived in rather than entirely functional. I think it always made the world feel more massive. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:03] Just looking back through the nasty this morning, like in preparation for this. And it struck me again, like all those fun little, you know, video posters on the wall of what is it? The monster dome. Oh, yeah. Monster dome video. Yeah. Yeah. But all the all the different posters on the wall for like the fake movie posters, again, really brings a lot of. It really helps kind of create that world. And then it's something, you know, fun to, you know, to look at.

[00:24:35] So one of the other things with Orla is we see the reason she goes to Gwynn is like she likes these kind of like steamy, maybe trashy romance type of novels. And like there's a scene later on where we see her like reading it and like the lettering is great. The lettering is like. Oh my God.

[00:24:56] The whole thing is wonderful, where we kind of see in Orla's imagination as she is picturing what she is reading. And we have great like boxes in terms of the actual wording from the book she's reading and then compared to what the characters are saying. So like the whole look of it, the whole design, the whole layout and especially the lettering in that section is really great.

[00:25:24] It's really fun in terms of like what's what's from the romance book. I was curious of reading it. So did you have, did you just go off of like, this is what I think, you know, a modern type of, you know, romance book that Orla would read is or did you do any research? Well, I kind of like for me, like I don't necessarily heavily read like modern like bodice rippers,

[00:25:50] you know, but I'm having a couple like smarty fantasy, romantic books, like they were quite fun. But mainly I was just like withdrawn, you know, like drawn from like some of my old favorites, like Jane Eyre and like the Bronte sisters books, right, which I did read a lot. I'm just going to be drawn from that and I'm putting it up. But that's actually been some of the most fun I've had in developing of this, which is like just trying to come up with this whole ecosystem of like, like fake trashy romance novels.

[00:26:19] Like one of the future cover concepts, I think it's like sort of an SQ3 cover, like requires like a shelf full of various like titles of like fake books. So we're like me and Sally, like in the editor Marla were just like having so much fun just like brainstorming like ideas of like different like crappy titles. I want to see if I can find some of the ones we come up with. Please. This is like a special preview for you. Okay. These are some of the runs I wrote down.

[00:26:48] The thighs of Fergus Foe, a tickle of taint, the rotting of mist cutting, the dowager's cleavage, his haunted trevice, the musk of Madame Melange and cuffing season. Wait, I think the dowager's cleavage? Yeah, the dowager's cleavage. I like that. I like the dowager's cleavage.

[00:27:17] I would read most of those books. Yeah. Although I think like Sally maybe like won the competition because she came up with one which was just twin cheeks. Well, that's great. But yeah, I just thought that was like such a nice touch kind of seeing what Orla is imagining. And like it also really breaks up the comic well because, you know, we I mean, you know, not

[00:27:45] we have kind of traditional more or less, but but interesting like panel layouts. But then, you know, here we really we don't have any for that section of the romance novel. We don't have any defined panel borders. We have this great kind of lush purpley blue background with kind of, you know, star shapes almost in it. So everything feels kind of imaginary dreamy, you know, I think everyone gets to share.

[00:28:14] Like you mentioned, it's a great showcase for Lucas. Like Lucas just in general throughout this issue, that's such a good job of sometimes like you see, like, you know, you get the art of a comic and it seems like the letter is going to be put on top. Like, you know, and sometimes it can be like good, clear, functional lettering, but it feels separate from like that. But Lucas really kind of like makes like the letters and like the word balloons and feel like part of the fabric of the page. It feels like it's part of the artwork and especially it really comes to the floor in that sequence.

[00:28:44] All feels part of the one tapestry. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's phenomenal. The other thing I wanted to mention where I want to Google this because I would be shocked if this wasn't a real place. If it isn't, it should be. But at one point, Orla just walks past, I'm assuming what is like a tea shop called Brutality. And I was like, you know what? I'd go there. I'd get my tea there every morning. Yeah.

[00:29:14] I have to say like that one was Sally's idea of Brutality. Awesome. Sally's crushing it. Yeah, no, Sally's doing amazing. Like, you know, like I have one in SU too, which is the Cronenberg Shrimp Coal. Nothing highly annoying. Yeah, we both had little turns of like putting little things in there, which is just, again, part of the fun of doing comics is just having all these little details. All right, everybody. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

[00:29:42] Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again. I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know. And now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing. Another friend chimes in. Are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together. So I guess? Question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge.

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[00:30:39] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you. And big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Do you love sci-fi? Are you a horror fan? Maybe you prefer action or fantasy. 2000 AD has it all and should be on your radar.

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[00:32:08] I feel, I don't know if this is, I don't know if this is the right way to phrase it. So my apologies. But this story, even though it has horror and a monster and things along those lines, like to me, this kind of felt, and maybe it was just because I so recently read The Nasty, which is set like in 1994. But this feels really like modern. Like this feels like right now.

[00:32:35] Like some of your other, like the other horror work you've done, you know, you could take kind of that story and it might not necessarily be in a particular like time period, even if it's set like right now. But this feels like really like modern. So when you're thinking about the stuff you want to do next and like comic ideas you have and like where you want to pitch, like was there any reason in particular you wanted to, you really wanted to focus on this next and have a comic that is kind of like of the moment,

[00:33:04] like right now? Was that in any way like the impetus to try and get this one going? It's interesting because like obviously like it feels quite like sadly topical enough is with the whole manosphere and the way that's all escalated. But when I was developing it, like I wasn't really thinking in terms of it all, I want to do something that's like topical and is like of the moment. Like I was thinking like, yeah, maybe the technology changes or whatever, but like this kind of stuff's always been going on essentially.

[00:33:34] Like, you know, it's kind of timeless in a way. Um, and like, so me, I was generally thinking like, you know, kind of like the core issues of like how people relate to each other, like, you know, how, um, the walls they build up, you know, between each other and like, you know, and then like the, just the terrible hellscape of like bad people that are out there as well. And like, so yeah, like sad, I wish it wasn't topical. Like I wish it was like a time capsule, a time long gone, but sadly, because we're going to keep on. Sure.

[00:34:02] But sadly, it feels like we're going to keep on recreating, um, these same traps for ourselves. I assume like I, this, this sad feeling in my gut tells me that you could probably release this like five years from now, but they'll be saying it feels like of the moment in a lot of ways. I hope not, but you're probably right. It's probably not going to get better, unfortunately, although I wish it would. I mean, like, I'd like to see like, you know, like the future is bright, but then you see like the way like the kids these days are having their minds rotted by like certain types of influencers.

[00:34:32] So it's all the same stuff, especially repackaged and, um, but hopefully they'll learn better than we did. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I, I, you know, I hope so. Um, and in turn, I, one of the other things I was curious about in terms of like the, the setting of this, because this is set, you know, in the U S and if listeners didn't listen to your other episode or don't know anything about you, um, they may be able to tell. Yeah. You may be surprised to learn I'm Scottish.

[00:35:00] Just, just, just a wee bit. I was not sure. I brought a invitation. I'm actually from New Jersey. This is like the prestige, you know, like this is the act. Yeah. That would be phenomenal. Do you do, do you do an American accent, John? Um, probably not very well. I'll use my credit card. Hey, man. I don't have health insurance.

[00:35:29] Um, but yeah, no, I remember like Joe Mulvey. Sadly, sadly, very, very American. Like Joe Mulvey, who's like, you know, the most, um, I'm a New York person I've ever met. Um, like he's like an artist that works on my other book, Grogan Shanks. We were long time friends. We all were just at a table together, like New York comic con. And I'll take a woman and whenever he wasn't at a table, he's like, give me his cap and say, just be me. You are like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm John Mulvey. How you doing? I scam. Fantastic book.

[00:36:00] Not going to lie to you. John, that's not bad. Yeah. I mean, cause you've come, I mean, you've come to the U S for shows and other things. So, you know, you, you, you've been here for that, that type of stuff. Um, how long have you been coming to the U S for like, Joe's into visit? Um, well the first time I came, well, I went to San Diego comic con as a fan in 2009, 2010. Okay. And then like,

[00:36:27] I went to New York comic con to exhibit every year from like 2011 through 2019. And then like in the latter half of the decade, I get invited out to like, as a guest shows like C2E2 and Chicago and, um, Emerald city in Seattle. And I've been to heroes con a couple of times. So I've been like about a bit, um, I'm afraid I probably won't be coming back to the U S for a little while. At least I'm going to like cancel my plans. Like, um, yeah. Um, but hopefully I will be back again eventually.

[00:36:58] Right. I, I, I hope so. I understand. I totally understand, uh, the current state of things. Um, but hopefully that'll change and, and, and you'll come back. Um, but I was curious, uh, and I don't think we got into this last time when we were talking about, uh, the nasty, uh, that comic, but I, something I was, was wondering with like thinking about it. Cause the comic set in the U S and just what, when you do come here, what do you think is like the,

[00:37:25] what is the biggest kind of like, uh, thing that you have to get used to, or the, maybe the surprising thing in terms of the culture from, you know, the U S and Scotland. Like, are there any like, like things that always you have to get used to when you come here, like even to visit or that surprise you? Um, it's interesting because like a lot of ways, like we're very, very similar. Like, you know, like, and like, you know, especially like not just generally, cause like we're both kind of like the same general cultural background,

[00:37:54] but also like, because of how like ubiquitous American culture is and how much is filled through to the UK. Like, you know, we're very similar in that sense as well, but sure. And then like, you know, like just a little things that are different, like maybe a little, even like cultural or like pop cultural things. Like whenever like you watch the telly, like, you know, like there's twice as many commercials in the US than this in the UK. Oh, you know how like, you know, all the, one of the things I think that are fascinating is the British person is watching all the adverts to telly and they have like, you know,

[00:38:23] it's like this thing is exclusive to the US. I've never seen anybody else, which is we'll have an advert, um, or a commercial, sorry, I should say. And then you'll have these little like montages of people like walking through the fields. It's just like voice says like side effects may cause exploding head, bleeding eyeballs, but demonic possession, you know, like, it was just like fascinating because we don't, we don't have that in America and the UK. Um, so wait, like, so medication commercials that, that do that. Like that's real.

[00:38:53] I didn't know that. That's something that I've watched very little television in foreign countries. Um, but I didn't know that. I think it's a combination of like in the UK, we have like a lot of like blink and you'll miss it. Kind of like written thing that comes along the bottom, like for side effects. But also I think it's because like Europe has like more rigorous grounds for like allowing medical treatments and like things over the counter. So like a lot of the stuff that like is available in the US, it's like wouldn't pass like the standards in Europe. Well,

[00:39:23] that's upsetting. Um, and yeah, like, you know, like trying to think of the nail surely. Um, no, I mean, to be honest, like, I think the UK and the US are very similar on it. Like, you know, both have like, you know, good people and assholes and like, you know, sure. Like, so then there's anything that's like exclusive, like to a certain type of, you know, place. Um, yeah, but yeah, I mean, maybe I just sometimes surprised me as about how big everything is, which really shocks me. Like, um,

[00:39:53] because like the UK, like I could travel from like, I could get in a car and travel from like, you know, the North of Scotland to, um, the South of England, probably if I was really pushing it like in a day, um, less than a day. And it's like, and like you could take like the whole of the UK, the country and put it in like one of like the American states, probably, you know? And like, like everything is in America. Um, so I see that's within, it's quite different. I think like that kind of then translates into like,

[00:40:22] how all the changes pan out because everything's so big and because population is so sparse spread, you forget that like, you know, America, like covers like a wide spectrum of people. Like, you know, like, so yeah, that's something that kind of like, yeah. Yeah. There's a, um, uh, every once in a while, like there's a whole genre of like, like TikTok videos, I feel like, or, you know, whatever social media platform you use that they make these things on

[00:40:52] where it's just like British folks, Scottish, you know, Irish, what a company who have come to the U S and live here now and have made videos about how, how big the U S is. Yeah. It's just like, easy. Like, you know, somewhere in like the Midwest or a big state, like Texas driving two hours to get to the local, but the nearest like Walmart or big box store is like not unheard of. Whereas if,

[00:41:20] if you live in like a suburb of London, like you're, you're not going like two hours is like a long, yeah. I understand. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And like, and that's like, like something like, like, it's really like walkable, like how, like so much of the UK, like I live in the suburbs. I don't even live in Glasgow. Like, you know, I live like in suburbs, like a little bit outside of Glasgow and another Glen, like, which is the center of the nasty. Um, but if I were to get all my shoes, I could go right.

[00:41:49] If I want to walk to the city center of Glasgow, like I could be there and like, you know, on foot and like, but maybe a little over an hour, um, like for those, the right routes, like, you know, and that just like, you know, like, so in places like, you know, so big in America, you have to have a car essentially to drive it to get anywhere. Yeah. I'm just like, you know about alien. Okay. Yeah, that that's true. Um, it's, you do need a car to get around like most places. Like it is wild when you go somewhere in the U S like a, that is like really walkable because there's just,

[00:42:18] there aren't a ton of places like that. Oh, that's funny. I have a commercial thing though. Like the, the, the prescription medication commercials though. I'm going to be thinking about that for a while because it just something we take for granted here because there are so, you know, ubiquitous, but yeah, we make, I mean, we make fun of them here, but just because it's like wild, some of the side effects they'll say, uh, at the, at the end of it. Um, but in any event to get, uh, to turn back to, to Orla for, for a bit.

[00:42:49] Um, so it's a, it's a five issues. Yeah. It's going to be a five issue miniseries. Um, like it's running from August through to what's five months after August? December. Yeah. August. Yeah. Yeah. So August through December. Yeah. September, October, January, Yeah. And then like the collection comes out. I had to name them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can't, I can't count either. I'm going to, yeah, I had, I had to name, I had to name all the months. Uh, and then the collect,

[00:43:19] the collection will be out shortly thereafter. Yeah. I believe March, 2026 is the current, okay. Yeah. I, um, but I'm, I'm excited. I can't see, I can't wait to see where it goes. Like I said, I love the creative team on it. I love, um, Sally's work. Uh, you know, so yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I can see I've been such a fan of Sarah for a long time. And like, she's kind of slumming her work for me. Like she's done like Peter Milligan, you know, Colin Bunn, like all these names, like, you know,

[00:43:48] as I feel like lucky to have her, but like, you know, she's just been great. She's brought a great game. And I kind of feel like Sally's built up a really good reputation for doing like lots of horror. Like she's like, she's a great horror artist. And I think you can see like some of the fun Sally's having by like getting to be funny, like and silly and do like different stuff here. Like I think it comes across hopefully. Um, and yeah, I think the team are all just having fun. Like I know I'm having fun. Um, and like, I like when I wrote this book, I thought like these, these scripts are good. I'm happy with the scripts,

[00:44:16] but seeing the actual pages come in, like is when I thought like, well, we have something really special here. Like everybody's like bringing like the AK and this is like a real fun book. Um, so yeah, I really hope that people will check it out because like I say, I'm really proud of it. And I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Um, yeah, I, I, I, I think so too. And, um, you know, it's tough to write like a protagonist who is doing bad things, eating people, um,

[00:44:44] and to make them like likable. I mean, if that's what you're going for, like, no, that was definitely kind of like tug of war we had, right? I had, I was writing it, but I had this thing of like, in my head, like the kind of main dramatic thrust is like rom-com type concerns. Like, you know, Oh, like, how is she going to keep this secret about herself? Like from when, what's going to happen if her friends find out about this? Like, you know, right. Or I be happy. Will she find happiness? Like, you know, or are things going to be ruined?

[00:45:14] And then periodically I'd have this thing in the back of my head saying, people are dying. Like, you know, like there's families, you know, right. and it's that kind of thing of like wrestling with like, you know, do I grapple with this? That try like, and think, Oh, you know, like what's the ramifications of this? And then I think I kind of ended up, I was backing and forth on this going, how much did I really kind of want to address the kind of like moral murkiness of what's going on here? And then I saw it was a film that came out last year called Lisa

[00:45:44] Frankenstein, which is quite similar. Like it was like, this is like a girl who like gets like a boyfriend who's a zombie who's came back from the dead and people start dying in that. And that kind of like is quite nonjudgmental, but it's like, um, it's solution to the problem is that if, you know, the main character is cool and likable, then it's fine. And that is, is it kind of like that babe, I've gone far for the most part. Well,

[00:46:14] I think it's tough to make a character like that. I mean, you can make a character like that, like empathetic or maybe sympathetic, depending, but likable can be tough, at least likable, like intentional, like intentionally likable, because we've certainly seen, and especially at least, at least one, one of your, your men's rights, uh, character in, in this book, uh, is probably someone along the lines who, you know,

[00:46:41] watches something like the Sopranos or Breaking Bad and sees a character like Tony Soprano or Walter White and thinks that like, there to be like emulated. Yeah. Now they're interesting protagonists, but I don't, I don't think they were, I don't think Vince Gilligan or, who did Sopranos? Was it David Simon? well, David Simon did The Wire, David Chase, or something Chase. Maybe, okay. Yeah. My apologies for not knowing,

[00:47:11] but I don't know if they were, they were, I know. He does. I'm sure he does. Listens every week. Very upsetting. Uh, uh, but I don't know if they wrote those characters, you know, to be like emulated, you know? Um, so I think it's like, I think like, you know, watch something like Breaking Bad. Like, I think like the writers like really wanted Walter White to be seen as like a monster, but then folk were like, you know,

[00:47:41] because he, when he's lying to himself and other people says, I'm just providing for my family. And some folk who have no sense of like, you know, like context or subtext, like, Oh, he's just trying to provide for his family. That's what you said. Leave the lie. Like, you know, I'm sorry. I sometimes think it's more like shallow, like than that. Like he says, uh, he says something that sounds really great. Like, you know, I am the one who knocked. And the folks are like, yeah,

[00:48:10] that's the guy I want to be. It's like, I, are we watching the same show? But, you know, maybe, maybe I'm wrong. But my point being though, I think it's tough to write a character who's doing what, what some folks might argue like, or is morally like a terrible, but to make them intentionally, you know, likable. There's like a, like you see Orla interact with Gwynn and there is such like an awkward

[00:48:39] sweetness to her, uh, which I feel is like just such a great juxtaposition between that and, and, and the ick because they're, they're, it, you know, unlike some monster stories, like, uh, like a traditional werewolf type of story where somebody has the, this monster inside of them and it comes out and they can't control it. There definitely seems to be some control or intentionality with, between Orla and the ick.

[00:49:09] And that I think is fascinating. And that, that just makes, you know, that I think is super interesting in, in terms of, uh, the story. So. I mean, for me, I was thinking like, like for me and I, the, I was thinking like, um, a lot of times I can monster stories or horror stories. It's this thing of like, you know, Oh, I really fear for like the other character. Cause I don't want them to get like, you know, eaten by a monster, like, you know, and it become, that's where the tension comes from. And maybe like, you know, going forward, like, and where,

[00:49:39] where the first issue leaves off, so I won't get too far into it, but like going forward, like for example, like you might like Gwen and you might think like, Oh, I hope that he doesn't get eaten by a monster. Maybe you're feeling some tension by that. But also I hope people are thinking like, I'll feel so bad for Orla. If she turns into a monster, like he eats like, you know, Gwen, like, you know, like, so I was almost thinking you're feeling bad for her because it's like, you know, she's someone who believes in true love and you don't want her to be let down. You know, you don't want her to kind of like, you know, lose that again. Like, you know,

[00:50:09] so hopefully it's like human investment and that's part of the tension as well. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, absolutely. Um, but, and there are some, I don't want to give everything away. There are some other things at play that are kind of hinted at or glimpse that a little bit in the first issue that I'm, I'm curious as to how they develop. But, um, I, I mean, it's, you know, I had a lot of fun like reading it and I, um,

[00:50:39] you know, I just, there's just something about Orla and I kind of love, I think there needs to be more, uh, romance or rom-com comic, like generally. Like, and I know this is not like quite that, but like, yep, like play up those truths, you know, she, she, she's a girl who is hiding, a secret and wants to know if anybody can love her. Like, yeah, let's, let's go. I'll, I'll strap in. I'm going for a ride. Let's, you know?

[00:51:09] Yeah, no, I, I, I love playing with the romance dynamics. And I'm like, I like, although yes, it's getting built as a horror comic, like horror, horror, horror comedy. And there are horror elements and there's goal and intention and that stuff. For me, like, I think of this principally as like a rom-com or a romance comic. And I would love to see like more romance comics coming to the floor because I feel like, you know, back in the day, like there was a flourishing romance, like, you know, market, but so many of the comics were just like these terrible, like, you know, too fat to love,

[00:51:38] too short to love. Like, you know, like, you know, right. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

[00:52:08] That's interesting. And from a writer's perspective, you know that, yes, I'm writing a monster horror story. But the reason I think it came out as well as it did, not just the creative team and you and Sally, which are both supremely talented, but just from like a writer's perspective, thinking that primarily what I'm writing is a romcom.

[00:52:30] And if I just stay true to this character and what she wants and what is going on and treating the ick as something she's trying to hide from people like you would see in any type of almost romantic comedy, the horror is going to come out naturally from that. But to kind of keep that romcom perspective, I think is very interesting to hear.

[00:52:58] And yeah, that's like, yeah, no, definitely. I think it makes the writing is like a romcom obstacle. It's like, you know, I don't know, like the email divide of why you've got mail or how you know, it's like that. That's the kind of divide. Right. Yeah. So I very excited. August 6th, Mad Cave. Orla, make sure you listeners, make sure you tell your local shop that you want it in your your pull box.

[00:53:26] And Mad Cave is also doing a bunch of great stuff. If you go to the I'll have a link in the show notes, you go to the Mad Cave website. I know they're doing something, I think, with a lot of their comics now where you can get it digitally and then you'll get the trade when that's out. So, you know, you'll get the trade on. They've got like they can buy them. Pre-order the single issues of comics direct from the website or you can get them digitally or you can get, like you say, a full set of the bundle. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Then or you can even pre-order like the Collector Edition now as well.

[00:53:56] So they could do all that stuff. And I think there's the market guests increasingly fractured. It's good to know, like, you know, that anyone who's interested can go direct to their website and get their stuff from them. Yeah. Yeah. So you can go to them or if you have a local shop, let your local shop know. They'll be able to it'll be it'll be right there on August 6th. If you're a Wednesday warrior, as they're called, or if you're not able to make it to the weekend like me sometimes, you'll be able to go pick up the stuff.

[00:54:21] And also, like, check out my, like, on my socials, like, on Blue Sky, I've got this ongoing thread of, like, comic shops in the U.S., the U.K., Europe, all over that, like, all that I've found are offering all that online. So even if you don't have, like, a local comic shop and, like, you know, easy, reachable distance, there are places that will ship nationwide as well if you want to get to the comic shop.

[00:54:45] Nice. Yeah, I'll make sure to link, you know, your Blue Sky so folks who are on that can follow you on there. And also, just because I really enjoyed it, another plug for The Nasty that was out through Vault Comic. Thank you. And I think it was you, Adam Cahoon. I was on the issue series. George Camberdays did the first two issues. That's right. The first three issues was him and Adam Cahoon, and then Adam Cahoon took over, like, for a lot of years from S.E. 3 onwards. Right.

[00:55:15] And the colors were by Kurt Michael Russell, and the letters were by Jim Campbell. And the Jim Campbell lettered. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, Kurt Michael Russell, phenomenal, phenomenal letterer. But if you haven't checked out, I think I said letterer, but Kurt Michael Russell's a colorist. Oh, yeah. Colorist and Jim Campbell. I didn't want anything to, like, you know, create you there, but. No, no, please. I said the wrong thing. It happens. Look. Yeah. It's still early. Well, it's the afternoon for you, John.

[00:55:44] It's like, I'm only one pot of coffee deep. I'm like the two-pot guy. So, you know. But, yes. Thank you for correcting me. Yeah, but check out The Nasty through Vol Comics. I absolutely loved it. And check out all of John's work. I just feel like you're somebody who's, I really love the comics that you make. And I'm so happy that you're coming back on the podcast. And so excited for Orla, August 6th. So, thank you very much, John.

[00:56:12] Oh, so, while we're talking about other stuff, I should mention as well, very quickly, that I have a fantasy. Yeah, please. I have a Kickstarter right now. It's kind of like a fantasy crime procedural mashup called Brawl, Gorin, Shanks. It's on Kickstarter right now. The kind of truncated address you can get it through is comicstribe.com forward slash GS. That's comicstribe.com forward slash G-S. And this is kind of like, it's like I say, it's kind of like Lord of the Rings meets Knife South.

[00:56:41] A dwarf and a orc who travel from town to town solving crimes. It's all episodic, like self-contained adventures and mysteries. So, a lot of fun doing that with Joe Mulvey. And check that out, too. Awesome. Yeah, Comics Tribe does a lot of cool stuff in terms of the comics that they kind of usher through Kickstarter. But Grogor and Shanks. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Yeah. I love that. I love Lord of the Rings meets Knife South. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:11] Or Dwarf Columbo solves crime. Yeah, that's great. All right. Well, we'll have a link to that. And when this comes out, we'll see if... The Kickstarter is still ongoing. But if not, are folks going to be able to get that after the Kickstarter? Yeah. The plan is, we're doing a couple of Kickstarters. We're doing a Kickstarter. It's like, if you follow the same Kickstarters, where we did Kickstarter exclusive dox editions,

[00:57:38] which were double issues, like collecting no issues at a time. We'll be doing the same thing for the Role Lord and Shanks. We'll have the first Kickstarter, which is collecting issues one and two. Then we're going to have one at the end of the year, collecting issues three and four. And if you miss the campaign, you'll be able to like... I think Kickstarter does late pledges now. We can still like back and get the... Oh, they do. Yeah. Yeah. If you select... If the campaign selects it, you can do late pledges. Yeah. And I'm sure the Amazon Comics Tribe did it for the last one. Or you can get it from the Comics Tribe website or from my website.

[00:58:06] And then like once the two Kickstarters are done, we'll then be going to the direct market. Because I mean, Diamond's still alive at that point. We'll be going to the direct market. And, you know, releasing like it's a four-issue miniseries. And then we'll be doing a collection early to 26. So, yeah. Nice. Get your hands on it. Oh, fantastic. All right. Yeah. I'll have links to everything in the show notes. So listeners, you can check it out. But... And shout out to my brother, Bobby. Bobby, of course, at Crypto Creator Corner's number one most dedicated fan.

[00:58:36] Bobby listens to all my episodes. So, Bob, I hope you're having a fun Sunday. And I've recovered from the triplets' 12th birthday party yesterday. Happy birthday to the triplets. Yeah. Yeah. My brother has four kids. But the triplets just turned 12. Wow. So Cass Coop and Kip turned 12. That's the night's bell beers of no sleeping. Oh, yeah. I mean, and they... Bobby and his wife, Lindsay, had them like close in time. So their older daughter is 13.

[00:59:06] And the triplets just turned 12. Wow. Yeah. It's a lot. Bobby hasn't slept in a number of years. But, John, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's always a pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for having me on. I really enjoyed it. I love the coming big A team in Crypto Creator Corner. Like, it's a great stuff. It's a great feature. So I was happy to be back on that again. Yeah. No, I appreciate you saying that. Listeners, thank you so much for listening.

[00:59:37] You know, rate and review us. Do all that stuff that they tell you to do for podcasts. Because it really does help. And you can follow us on Blue Sky. Or we have a TikTok as well. And sign up for the YouTube channel. Because a lot of these videos, if you don't do podcasts, we post the video on YouTube. So you can, you know, watch as well. And if we ever, like, hold anything up, like our copy of The Nasty, you're able to see it. Which you can't see if you're a podcast listener. Oh, there. There's the Grogor and Shags.

[01:00:07] And so, yeah. Thanks again, John. I really appreciate it. So, listeners, thanks for listening. And I'll see you next time. Thank you. Bye. This is Byron O'Neill, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner, brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing, and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.