Rafer Roberts & Joe Eisma Interview - Babylon Cove

[00:00:00] - [Speaker 0]
Your ears do not deceive you. You have just entered the cryptid creator corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:11] - [Speaker 1]
The future is calling. 2,000 AD is the galaxy's greatest comic with new issues published every single week. Every 32 page issue of 2,000 AD brings you the best in sci fi and horror featuring characters like judge dread, rogue trooper, and more. Get a print subscription in 2,000 AD, and it'll arrive to your mailbox every week. And your first issue is free.

[00:00:35] - [Speaker 1]
Or subscribe digitally, and you can download DRM free copies of each issue for only $9 a month. That's 128 pages of incredible comics every month for less than $10. Head to 2,000 AD and click on subscribe now or download the 2,000 AD app and start reading today. Hello, and welcome to Comic book yeti's cryptid creator corner podcast. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I have two guests with me tonight.

[00:01:03] - [Speaker 1]
And I'm very excited to talk to them about their new book coming out through Man Cave Studios, the final order cutoff. For those of you who wanna make sure that your local comic shop has a copy of it in your pull bin is gonna be April 27. Issue one is out May 20. It is called Babylon Cove. I've gotten to read issue one, which is really the best part about doing this podcast is getting to see things before they actually come out.

[00:01:29] - [Speaker 1]
Like, I feel like I have a little bit of special knowledge, which, honestly, I like. Yeah. It's kinda like a, I don't know, a bit of a a rom com meets, I don't know, Stephen King, HP Lovecraft, Eldritch horror, I guess, so far is what I'm thinking. Well, I won't get too much in the in the in the weeds of it, but, absolutely loved issue one. And, yeah, please welcome to the podcast, Rafer Roberts and Joe Isma.

[00:01:58] - [Speaker 1]
How are the two of you doing tonight?

[00:02:00] - [Speaker 2]
Doing well. I'm good. Past my bedtime.

[00:02:05] - [Speaker 1]
Well, thank you. I Yeah. I appreciate you, staying up late so we could so we could record this and and get this done. Rafer, I I this is the first time that you and I have have talked. I was mentioned before we started recording that I I did stop once when you were at at Baltimore one year to get some things signed because I've been a fan of your work for quite a while now, and so I'm I'm excited to to talk to you.

[00:02:31] - [Speaker 1]
Joe Joe knows, I think last time Joe was on, I just spent forty minutes telling him how much, like, I loved engine word and and other, and, the the new student government, I think, we were talking about at that time. So yeah. So the two of you have teamed up. Babylon Cove. I tried to describe a little bit about what it was, and I wanna talk about, you know, some of the specifics.

[00:02:55] - [Speaker 1]
But, Raper, why don't you start? Can you kinda just give listeners a little bit more of a rundown as to what they can expect and why they should pick up Babylon Cove?

[00:03:05] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. And you touched on it a little bit. The the tagline that we've been going with is if Stephen King could write one of those hallmark movies, then that would be Babylon Cove. Like, I grew up reading a lot of Stephen King. So it's it's got that Salem's Lot feel, but it's really but, also, I just love the dynamic and the structure of a traditional romantic comedy.

[00:03:29] - [Speaker 2]
It's like it's just like taking two different genres and mashing them together, and it really works well. It's just, you know, making the monster one of the other, you know, romantic interests in such a way. It just sort of plays off that. But the the rundown is that Heather Hutchins is this city girl now. She'd left Babylon Cove shortly after graduating high school and now is coming back into town, like, ten years later and and is running into all of the so called the demons that she left behind.

[00:04:07] - [Speaker 2]
Her ex boyfriend who they had a messy breakup, the cute boy who she never had time for but always had the crush on her. Maybe they'll get together. And then also Carthon, the flesh eating demon who is feasting on the entire town, behind the scenes, also wants Heather, for his own nefarious, goals.

[00:04:32] - [Speaker 3]
So Which one is right for her?

[00:04:33] - [Speaker 2]
Which one is right for her?

[00:04:37] - [Speaker 1]
There are a couple of things that I really like about the this in terms of the structure of the story. And I love the name Babylon Cove. It reminds me of, like, a soap opera or maybe, like, a star's hollow like Gilmore Girls. So it kinda has everybody in town knows each other type of feel to it. And I always think with something like this where you're doing a genre mashup, the balance is tough to, you know, makes make sure that you're not going too much for, like, rom com or, like, like, hallmark romcom.

[00:05:08] - [Speaker 1]
You're not doing too much of the horror. You gotta get the mix just right. And there are so many little things because I've watched not not during the year, but at Christmas time, I watch just because it's usually the default television station that my wife has on. So many of those Hallmark Christmas movies, and you have so many of those, like, tropes and touchstones right that they do. Like, you, you know, you you have your your miss Hutchins is, who is, having to return to town.

[00:05:43] - [Speaker 1]
And in the beginning, like, I did not find her, like, likable in the in the same way that I do not like many of the protagonists of Hallmark romantic comedies. It's like they start off with a character who, you know, is is clearly somebody who I think they they set up to be a character that, like, isn't particularly likable right right off the bat. So and I really like that about it and kind of seeing the town through her eyes coming back, knowing that she left, and then we we we find along the way in issue one that there was, like, some some terrible things, I guess, that she did before she you know, before the year

[00:06:27] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm.

[00:06:28] - [Speaker 1]
Before the year ended. So the the town is also not particularly fond of her. All of that I really liked, and the way you kind of slowly weaved in as the story developed more of the the horror elements of it, I thought was I thought was very smart. So, yeah, can you just tell me a little bit more about trying to maintain that that balance?

[00:06:54] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. It was a little tricky, you know, because you didn't wanna go too far in one direction or or lean too heavily on, like, the cliche tropes, but they definitely had to be there. It's like in writing a piece of music, like, you have if you were gonna write a ska song, you have to have a backbeat. If you're gonna it's like, there's certain rules to these sort of things, like and and certain beats that you have to have to hit in order for it to actually be a rom com or certain beats you have to hit for it to be a horror. And, honestly, finding those beats and having them work together was one of the easier bits.

[00:07:34] - [Speaker 2]
It was just, you know, making like, to maybe not let the horror come in too early or not let the rom com drown the horror in in in such a way. But, as later issues come, I I think as it goes switches back and forth between genres, it becomes more of like an ice cream blizzard where it's all all mixed together. And as the different, aspects come to the forefront, it becomes kind of funnier in a way, like when the rom com comes out in the in the craziest horror scene or when the horror intrudes on, like, the most romantic scene of the book. It's like there's a scene later on in, Joe Drew beautifully when, Heather I think it's issue two. Heather goes to visit Charlie, to try to explain to him that there's something really weird going on in town, and she needs his help.

[00:08:27] - [Speaker 2]
And all he wants to do is, like, pour his heart out to her, She just keeps telling him to shut up, man. There's like a deep down. But it's just, like, so well and humanically drawn

[00:08:38] - [Speaker 1]
Wow.

[00:08:38] - [Speaker 2]
By Joe. And colors by Marissa Louise too help set the scene, but it's just like the characterizations really help. Just that's really the start of it. You have to make these characters real. And once you get the reader believing that these are real characters in their own way, then you can really do anything you want with them.

[00:09:02] - [Speaker 2]
Like, they'll be they'll you can as long as you keep them true to the character, the reader will follow you.

[00:09:09] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. You know? And I think I think one thing that really doesn't get a lot of play is that horror and comedy are so closely tied. So, like like, you can build up so much tension with horror, and then, like, you can literally, like, snap that on you know, with with humor just because, like, they're so close. The tension is there.

[00:09:29] - [Speaker 3]
And Rayford gave me so much setup to do that because, like, you know, one thing that I I feel like is in my wheelhouse is humor. And this isn't a humor book by any means, but Rayford did give me lots of opportunity to kind of send up some, you know, horror tropes and romantic tropes, just by setting up that tension and letting me, like, come in there with, here we go for a laugh because we're gonna, like, sneak that in there. So

[00:09:58] - [Speaker 1]
Well, I will say, though, you know, I've only read issue one so far. But in terms of, it's Heather. Right?

[00:10:04] - [Speaker 2]
Mhmm. Yes.

[00:10:05] - [Speaker 1]
The main character? Yeah. Okay. So in I keep saying miss Hutchins. I I because I I couldn't remember if it was Heather or Holly.

[00:10:11] - [Speaker 1]
That's the the the joys of getting older.

[00:10:14] - [Speaker 3]
But

[00:10:15] - [Speaker 1]
one of the things I I did think, like, when Heather first gets back into town and she's, you know, kind of talking about some of the things in town, you know, through the the narration, like, it is funny. Like, her, like, reminiscences about her past as well as what she's seeing now, in particular when she sees Charlie. In particular, the scene when she's first confronted with, like, mister Pritchard. The fun there's, like, a funeral scene. It is, like, objectively funny.

[00:10:50] - [Speaker 1]
Like, it's and, like, because we kinda, you know, see it through her, all of that stuff, I think, really works on a, you know, comedic level. And Mhmm. I mean, Joe, you're very good in terms of your you know, because a lot of the beginning of this book, the the horror stuff that you can do, you know, you don't get to shine yet because you are waiting to show it. But your your facial acting, the posturing of your characters, all of that really works really well to sell those, like, funnier, you know, funnier moments.

[00:11:25] - [Speaker 3]
So Thank you.

[00:11:26] - [Speaker 1]
I think all of that, you know, really works. And then don't don't worry listeners. If you're looking for horror, there's a payoff at the, you know, end of issue one. Spoiler alert. You're gonna love it.

[00:11:41] - [Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it really it really is good. So, Ray Yeah.

[00:11:47] - [Speaker 2]
We're broke, on this series, I think. Yeah.

[00:11:51] - [Speaker 1]
Well, yeah, it's it's also I mean, the stuff that I don't wanna get too much into it, but, like, the the the the end scene is really on the opposite end of the spectrum from everything we've seen so far. Because although, like I said, there were some funny elements, there are some some things creeping into the horror realm that happened. But, you know, you have the Babylon Cove. It's an idyllic New England town. Like, Joe's drawing these, like, this beautiful scene of, like, Heather rolling into town and, like, her convertible and, you know, seeing all the people on the streets.

[00:12:25] - [Speaker 1]
Like, it all, you know, does look like somebody riding into Stars Hollow. It all looks very quaint. And, yeah, the payoff at the end is tremendous, by the way.

[00:12:37] - [Speaker 3]
I will say that, like, some of the stuff that Ray Firth put in this book, like, lot of gore. I was like, this is probably the most amount of gore I've drawn in a book. And, like, I've drawn lots of gore over my career, various books, and I was kinda shocked that they let us get away with some of this stuff, honestly. But yeah.

[00:12:58] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. I know. I I think it all I I think it all really worked. Like, that payoff at the end is is tremendous. But, yeah.

[00:13:05] - [Speaker 1]
So, Rafer, like, kinda what was the, I guess, your influences to to put this together? Like, other than, you know, you said you've you read a lot of Stephen King and and

[00:13:15] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. Like, he a told lot There's like there's lot of rom coms. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm fascinated by romantic comedies and, like, just like the romance genre, just structurally and and how they work.

[00:13:30] - [Speaker 2]
And and I don't I'm gonna go out and, I don't I don't care for it, a lot of them. This is a lot of them is just like, oh, these two people fall in love because the plot says that they should fall in love or or they end up together. And it just and it and it brings false to me on a lot of but the structure of these stories and when they do work well, like Casablanca is is one of my I'm a oh, controversial opinion. It's a great movie. Yeah.

[00:13:58] - [Speaker 2]
You know?

[00:13:59] - [Speaker 1]
Hot hot take coming in.

[00:14:01] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. But it's not a Hollywood ending in any way. It's it's so but it's so real that the romance between these characters and the relationship they have and there's Nazis that that are coming in and and breaking them apart. And and he has to go off and kill some Nazis at the end of it instead of being with the woman he loves. It's, you know, that's a good romance to to me.

[00:14:29] - [Speaker 2]
So it's it's sort of like that. I I I like when the characters naturally can get together. And, Joe, we drew, like, one page of, I mean, Archer and Armstrong of, like, Archer and Faith together. And that was a previous romantic story that I had to write, having no experience in writing romance stories at that point. And it was just like, how can I make these two characters get together in a way that feels real and not just because my editors are telling me they have to get

[00:15:03] - [Speaker 1]
together? Right.

[00:15:06] - [Speaker 2]
So, like, what do they talk about? How do they interact? And doing bringing that to Babylon Cove in this story where everybody has baggage and there's a monster on the loose. Mhmm. It it was just so much fun and knowing that Joe was gonna be able to draw that.

[00:15:26] - [Speaker 2]
And I think I talk about this in in the pitch material. Is it I like doing this with Joe because I knew that Joe had done a lot of kinda romantic comics in the past with, the Archie stuff. You know, it's like that. Will they won't they with Betty and Veronica, and there's all, like, going around like that. So I I really just wanted to play with that a little bit and try to, like, have people come in expecting one thing from Joe, but then force Joe to draw something completely disgusting at the same time.

[00:16:00] - [Speaker 3]
Pretty disgusting, honestly.

[00:16:02] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. So there's really a lot of it was just I wanted to work with Joe and and play around with some stuff. Yeah, like it's a lot of Stephen King, a lot of horror movies. You can even see horror movies have the certain beats too. We talk about when Heather comes into town and meets Pritchard.

[00:16:23] - [Speaker 2]
It's like the Harbinger. You know, if you watch cabin in the woods, they have all they lay out all the rules. Like, you have to get that one guy coming into town to warn you to get the hell out of town, and then you don't listen to him and now you're doomed. So it's but it just happened that she ran into him when she was also running into the boy who had a crush on her and who now had, like, the biggest glow up of any character in the in the story. So

[00:16:52] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I I do I do like all of Heather's well, that's, you know, one of the things with, you know, with Joe with your art. Like, I do like all of, like, Heather's reactions to everything. And the all those, like not whether or not it's an emotional beat or a comedic beat or even like a horror beat.

[00:17:09] - [Speaker 1]
You know? Yeah. I just it's it there because there there are there are a lot of scenes of, like, just people in rooms, you know, because you're with, like, her going back home and the funeral, and you're you're building up to all these things. So, it really does shine, you know, at the end. But still, along the way, I I, like, I I loved your depiction of, I think it's aunt Janice who is just will will not stop picking on Heather.

[00:17:39] - [Speaker 1]
Like, you have these things. Like, they're funny. Like, Heather just, like, walks away from her when she's, like, in the middle of talking. Like, there's all of these realistic elements that you draw so well. Oh.

[00:17:52] - [Speaker 1]
And that that really, you know, add to the feel of the add to the story, but add to, like, the feel of the town and what you're you're you're building with, with Babylon Cove. Thanks. There was also there was a yo. Go ahead, Joe.

[00:18:09] - [Speaker 3]
I'm gonna say, you know, for a for a book like this, especially, like, any kind of horror story, like, Rafer was so kind to give me so many, like, character moments, so many, like, scenes of Heather and her family or her, you know, suitors or whatever, like, talking and, like, really emoting because that really gives it a lot of depth. Because, I mean, we could have a lot of, you know, scares, and that's it. But, like, without the the characterization, I think that that that then it you know, that just it's just, you know, kind of a cookie cutter story. But the fact that Rafer wrote in so much, like, you know, so many chances for them to all emote and to converse with each other and really, you know, kinda digest, no pun intended, the story. But what's happening, like, I think it really like, you know, I'm not trying to, like, you know, toot our own horns here, but I think it kinda, you know, it elevates it.

[00:19:07] - [Speaker 3]
It it it doesn't make it like it's not a straight romance story. It's not a straight horror story. It's like it's both, but it's more. You know?

[00:19:14] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Oh, I I totally agree. Well, was this a series that was was difficult to pitch just in terms of the genre matchup and, you know, in terms of, well, there are gonna be these, like, romance elements of it, but it is also a horror book.

[00:19:32] - [Speaker 3]
You wanna talk about that, Rayfrey? We'll talk about our long journey.

[00:19:35] - [Speaker 2]
We're talking about the full history of pitching this thing. I'm not gonna name names of previous comic companies, but originally, it wasn't coming out from Mad Cave. Pitched it to another company. God. Just four, five years ago.

[00:19:53] - [Speaker 2]
They picked

[00:19:54] - [Speaker 1]
it up,

[00:19:55] - [Speaker 2]
went bankrupt. So we It's

[00:19:57] - [Speaker 3]
not it's not a hard sell. This book is not a hard sell. But anyway

[00:20:00] - [Speaker 2]
Not a hard sell. We sold it, like, sold it twice. Yeah. Is what I'm saying. Okay.

[00:20:08] - [Speaker 2]
It was just a matter of, like, going through the whole process twice. It takes a lot out of you. No matter who you are, how many how many how good the And, pitch honestly, doing it, I think, made the book ultimately better in a way because we I had chance at least to go through it and refine a lot of stuff about Heather's character. Joe got three years better at drawing, I guess. But, yeah, no, it wasn't that hard of a sell and even it's just just Stephen King writing a Hallmark movie.

[00:20:45] - [Speaker 2]
It's Yeah. It tells you everything you need to know. And so it's like, okay. I get it. So yeah.

[00:20:51] - [Speaker 2]
But some of it you talk about Heather being an unlikable character sometimes. Man, having her in my head for so long. Good god. She is she is a piece of work and having to do because the narration is basically her it's her inner voice. It's her intrusive thoughts in a way coming out.

[00:21:17] - [Speaker 2]
Like, they're not they're not always great. They don't make her look great, but they're always truthful. And that was that was truthful to her anyway. Yeah. And having that sort of character in your head for a while.

[00:21:35] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, man. It's

[00:21:36] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. She's a lot. But I think it it makes the story more interesting, makes the story more complex. One thing one thing I did wanna say out of you know, I like to go into these things not really knowing too much about the book. I just wanna just wanna read the comic and see, and then I'll go back and look and see how it what the solicit says and and all that stuff before we, you know, talk about it.

[00:22:01] - [Speaker 1]
One of the things I was not expecting, just because of, you know, I it this line there was a line of dialogue or actually part of the narration in it that I I thought was, it was, like, incredible. And not that I didn't expect, like, the things in a comic, you know, to be incredible. I mean, these are I I love, you know, a lot of your work. I love, I love, you know, comics. It it was so profound.

[00:22:31] - [Speaker 1]
I was like, I was I don't know why. It's but struck me. I'm gonna but I wanna tell the listeners, it's when Heather is talking about her, like, last year in school, and she says, I've explained to many well meaning therapists how nostalgia is merely a Trojan horse made from happy childhood memories and filled with trauma soldiers, but never mind that. I thought I mean, that that bit, I just I just stopped me in my tracks. I was like

[00:23:01] - [Speaker 3]
I should win Ray for the Eisner. Yeah.

[00:23:04] - [Speaker 2]
I think that's the best line I've ever written, to be honest.

[00:23:07] - [Speaker 1]
I I think it's incredible. And not like I said, not that I'm not expecting, like, incredible things, but, I mean, I haven't read a line, like, that that really, like, stopped me in my tracks for a while. I just thought that was, I don't know, profound. It it really affected me. And I was like, damn.

[00:23:26] - [Speaker 1]
That's that's a good line. Wanna get that tattooed somewhere.

[00:23:33] - [Speaker 2]
I'm glad you like that. I rewrote that line. I've refined that like, oh, man. It was so clunky at first too, so it flows now. Like, here's I think it was twice as long.

[00:23:45] - [Speaker 1]
But it's Thank you.

[00:23:46] - [Speaker 2]
I'm glad it works.

[00:23:47] - [Speaker 1]
No. No. It's great. I mean, is that something that, you know, in terms of I mean, also because, like, there's a lot of stuff that, you know, I I said I I found I didn't like about Heather's character, but I felt like that line was really, really, like, insightful. So it was one of those, like, things that's like, oh, well, yeah, her, like, intrusive thoughts or her inner voice, like, are kinda garbage sometimes, but, like, she she is insightful as well.

[00:24:16] - [Speaker 1]
So it made it I was like, there's a lot going on in that head of hers.

[00:24:23] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. There's a lot going on in that head of hers. That is true. Joe, did you like Heather? Do you like Heather?

[00:24:31] - [Speaker 3]
I did. And, like, I honestly I mean, I get what y'all are saying, like but I feel like she grows so much over the course of the series

[00:24:38] - [Speaker 1]
Mhmm.

[00:24:39] - [Speaker 3]
That, like, you know, while you while she may not make, like, you know, the best first impression on you, like, she comes into her own. She, like, grows so much as a person over the course of the series. Yeah. She grows as a character, and I think she's, like she really is she she owns the lead the heroine role of the book, you know, because Rafer just gave her so much depth.

[00:25:07] - [Speaker 4]
Jimmy is too humble to do this. So as his stalwart ride or die, I wanted to tell you about his new graphic novel, Penny and the Yeti with artist Amber Aiken. What started as a comic short with his daughter that I've known about for ages now and it's evolved and has become one of those annoying can't talk about it in comics things for too damn long. Yes. I'm predisposed to be supportive but after reading an advanced copy of it, I have to admit, it's way better than I anticipated.

[00:25:35] - [Speaker 4]
No shade, but it's really good, remarkably so. Does it have a yeti? Yeah. Is it cute and adorable? Yeah.

[00:25:42] - [Speaker 4]
But it streak flies in effectively tapping into the all too familiar family dynamics that we all are facing in 2026 and approaching it in a way that doesn't insult the book's target audience, kids. They are way smarter and perceptive than we adults give them credit for. So I really appreciated Jimmy's narrative approach tapping into his own experiences as a dad and a spouse. I can hear his wife saying, get off your phone, Jimmy, through the pages. She's gonna kill me for saying that.

[00:26:10] - [Speaker 4]
It's hitting shelves on April 21, and I dropped the link in the show notes where you can preorder a copy today. Getty or not, here we come with Penny, Perry, Fenton, Maxine, and the magical, mythical, magnificent Yeti. On behalf of us both, we appreciate your support.

[00:26:28] - [Speaker 1]
YOLOLA. I mean, I agree. She did start to grow on me towards the end. I really I thought she was funny during the funeral scene towards the end, and I was I really started to get invested as to, you know, when she she meets the mayor of the town. I was I was I was I was in it by that point, so I had to have to have to know what's, what's going on.

[00:26:52] - [Speaker 1]
So, with, you know, where we kind of without getting too much into it, like, where we kind of see the story, you know, wrap or, you know, end in issue one. Is there anything you can that isn't too spoilery that you can kind of share with us that we, can expect from the rest of the series?

[00:27:16] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. So in issue one, it's basically Heather comes home. She meets Charlie coming into the town. She learns that her ex boyfriend is now the mayor of town, and they she runs into him at the funeral and arranges to go on a date. So issue two is that date with Dennis, ex boyfriend, ex high school quarterback, current mayor of Babylon Cove, as he talks about how much he's grown as a person and how much he has to apologize to her, but also she was a monster back in back in school too, and maybe she should apologize for some of the stuff that she did.

[00:28:01] - [Speaker 2]
And then, you know, Carthon makes a move on her, sends her a gift in a way that is truly horrifying, terrifies her, and sends her running back to Charlie for for some help because, you know, she can't choose between the the two boys, of her life. So just basically just complete reversion to her high school self. Meanwhile, a monster's on the loose.

[00:28:25] - [Speaker 1]
Wow. I can't wait to see what what Carthon gives her.

[00:28:29] - [Speaker 4]
That that guy.

[00:28:33] - [Speaker 1]
So let me how

[00:28:34] - [Speaker 2]
would he Rosenpower. He's trying to find, his lost love who he believes Heather has something to do with. Everybody's just trying to get in Heather's pants is really what it is. And she wants she really wants none of it. She just wants to go home.

[00:28:49] - [Speaker 2]
She just wants to leave.

[00:28:51] - [Speaker 1]
This came up recently in a in a conversation with friends of mine about looking back on high school. I mean, I'm out of high school now, I guess, almost, like, thirty years. But but I, you know, I didn't have a terrible in high school. Like, I I went to my twentieth year reunion, I think, was the only one I went to, and, you know, everyone you know, it was fine. But did either of you have experiences like like Heather where you, like, fled and never wanted to go back?

[00:29:23] - [Speaker 2]
I wasn't, the most popular kid in high school, but I was just a weirdo. So another one of my books I did, Rock Odds of Jackson, Tennessee, is probably closer to my high school experience than Babylon Cove. Now I go back to town and when I run into people I went to high school with, apparently, was more popular than I think. They're they're happy to see me, and I'm happy to see them. Like, it's just like, alright.

[00:29:52] - [Speaker 2]
Like, high school was so long ago. People grow up. They mature. I think that's Heather's problem. I don't think she matured since high school, but everybody else kinda did.

[00:30:02] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. That make I I see that. How about you, Joe? How was your how was your high school experience?

[00:30:07] - [Speaker 3]
I mean I mean, I went to my ten year, reunion, but I haven't gone to the other ones. And, my town was super small, small town Texas. I think we had just over a 100 people graduating in my high school class, so super small. And, I mean, I grew up with these people, and you go in and out of being friends with people, being cool, being not cool. And, you know, I I still I have I'm Facebook friends with a lot of them, and, you know, a lot of them are like, wow.

[00:30:40] - [Speaker 3]
It's so cool. You you did it. You became a comic artist, you said, in high school. I'm like, yeah. And, you know, all the girls that I thought were hot in school are not hot now.

[00:30:52] - [Speaker 3]
Said, sorry, that's mean. My wife will love that I said that, though.

[00:30:58] - [Speaker 1]
She she's like, that's the

[00:30:59] - [Speaker 3]
way you were into. Was like,

[00:31:00] - [Speaker 1]
she didn't look like that.

[00:31:02] - [Speaker 3]
But, anyway but yeah. No. I mean, I was the nerd too. So I mean but, I mean, pretty innocuous. I was I didn't I don't think I burned any bridges or really kinda showed my ass, kind of the way Heather does.

[00:31:20] - [Speaker 1]
Well, that's that's good. Yeah. That that's pretty good. So, Joe, when you had to draw, you know, some of the stuff that we see at the end and then some of the other stuff that I'm I'm assuming we're gonna get out of this, like, when more of the horror elements bleed in. So, I mean, you've done a bunch of different stuff, but, like, what do you go to to kind of, like, you know, if you need not not reference, but if you need, like, you know, some type of, like, inspiration or, like, to look at, like, things.

[00:31:48] - [Speaker 1]
Like, are you a Stephen King fan? Are there certain horror movies that you like to kinda check out to get a, you know, a feel for what you you think the panel should look like, or is there just some some dark entity that dwells inside you?

[00:32:04] - [Speaker 3]
Yeah. That's about it. No. I'm I'm a huge John Carpenter fan. So in the mouth of madness was kind of my touchstone for this, kind of like the vibe.

[00:32:16] - [Speaker 1]
I love that move. I love that movie. I love seeing Neil in that.

[00:32:20] - [Speaker 3]
Yes. So that's in the theater, and I just was I fell in love with that movie and the whole vibe. And I was like, when Rafer and I were talking about this, I was like,

[00:32:28] - [Speaker 1]
in my mind, I was

[00:32:29] - [Speaker 3]
like, okay. We're setting this in Hobbs End. End. But, yeah, I mean, like, in terms of gore, like, you know, I love stuff like Hellraiser, like, the the classic Hellraiser movies, not the direct to video sequels. The new one was pretty good in terms of just, like, visceral gore and stuff.

[00:32:51] - [Speaker 3]
I'm not really into, like, you know, kind of, like, saw and all that stuff, so

[00:32:55] - [Speaker 1]
I didn't really look at

[00:32:56] - [Speaker 3]
that stuff. But, like, there's a great film called The Void. I don't know if y'all heard of that one. It's very it's it's very HP Lovecraft coded and very and super scary, and, like, that was also a big inspiration. But one thing that I should add is, you know, obviously, as you know, Rafer is also an artist.

[00:33:18] - [Speaker 3]
And this is my first time working collaborating with another artist in this capacity. And Rafer, he designed so much of this. He designed, like, you know, the kind of, like, the main props of, like, the statues that have power and some of the creatures. And so it kinda helped me helped guide me into kinda like, okay. So this is where we're going stylistically with, like, the monsters and the gore.

[00:33:45] - [Speaker 3]
So, I mean, he was a he was a great asset for that. It was so that I didn't have to just, like, guess. You know? And it was really nice. I was it's a little nerve racking sometimes because artists can kinda go together sometimes like oil and, you know, vinegar.

[00:34:00] - [Speaker 3]
They don't really mix very well, but Rafer I mean, I've just known Rafer for so long, and I've always liked him. And, you know, I'm just so glad that we got to do this together and that it was something that we both kind of were passionate about.

[00:34:14] - [Speaker 1]
No. That's If

[00:34:16] - [Speaker 2]
you had gone a completely different direction on my drawings, I would have been alright too. I was just gonna say, you know, this is what I'm going for. You know? Kinda like this.

[00:34:23] - [Speaker 1]
Thought it

[00:34:23] - [Speaker 3]
was great. I mean, like because to me, like, whenever I start a project, sometimes, like, it can be nerve racking because, like, you know, writing the story is one thing, and that's not to to denigrate that. But, like, sometimes kinda conceptualizing and, like, Jimmy, we're talking about this, like, with engine war, like, talking conceptualizing an entire universe, an entire world, an entire setting can be daunting as an artist. So to have Rafer kinda, you know, pitch in and, you know, give me some ideas and and, like, hey. This is kind of what, you know, I was thinking for this.

[00:34:56] - [Speaker 3]
It's like, alright. That works. I like it. I appreciate that. So

[00:35:00] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. I try to make it my job as a writer is to make the artist's job easier. Like, the less you have to think about what you're doing and just being able to do it so you can get into that flow. Like I said, I try to write scripts that I would like to get as a writer. So Yeah.

[00:35:19] - [Speaker 2]
It's like the golden rule. Do unto do unto artists as you would have artists do unto you.

[00:35:25] - [Speaker 3]
That's the comic book golden rule.

[00:35:27] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yes. Yep.

[00:35:29] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. Well, so it's it's like if I can't draw it, how can I expect somebody else to? It's you know? It's I I made you draw so many crowd scenes in issue one. I figured I'd do some some lifting.

[00:35:41] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[00:35:43] - [Speaker 2]
Oh, they're

[00:35:44] - [Speaker 1]
a lie. The well, well, I mean, like, yeah, I guess I guess there were a few. Like, the the the Like,

[00:35:51] - [Speaker 3]
five funerals.

[00:35:52] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. The five the five funerals, however many there there are. I also when we start to meet some of one of another, like, nice touch thing that I thought was when when Heather starts to meet some of her old high school classmates, and, like, a lot of them have nicknames that aren't, like, fully explained. Crowboy could've gone anywhere, which I'm glad I'm I'm glad that that was explained in the way it was. I thought that was another part of it that I thought was funny.

[00:36:30] - [Speaker 1]
But then, she mentions, like, I guess, her old romantic rival who, Dennis left her for and calls her, what, like, something like, utter head.

[00:36:42] - [Speaker 3]
Or head.

[00:36:43] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. So I I wasn't I wasn't sure what that was about. I was, going back through. I'm like, did I miss something? I wonder if that's gonna get explained.

[00:36:53] - [Speaker 2]
I think we actually do explain the etymology of that in, like, issue three. Like

[00:36:58] - [Speaker 1]
Okay. Good.

[00:36:59] - [Speaker 2]
Because it's her best friend is also named Heather. So she called they called her other Heather, and that got shortened to utter head. Like, the derogatory, but nobody calls her other Heather now that Heather Hutchins has left town. She's just Heather. She's Heather This

[00:37:22] - [Speaker 1]
this this book is funny. So there are there are there are plenty of, comedic We just can't. Well, you definitely hit the the the calm part of the rom com. I mean, you hit the romantic part of it too. Yeah.

[00:37:37] - [Speaker 1]
I I really liked it. I really enjoyed it. I

[00:37:40] - [Speaker 3]
Well, thank you.

[00:37:41] - [Speaker 1]
I just, yeah, I just thought it has such a, like, a nice balance. I thought the end was just utterly disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. I know that.

[00:37:53] - [Speaker 1]
I don't wanna I don't wanna give too much away, but there's one thing in part I don't wanna say it on the podcast. I'll tell you when we stop recording, but there's there's one particular thing that happens whether or not it's in a comic or a movie or or a TV that, like, really creeps me out. And you had it in here. So Yay. Guys.

[00:38:11] - [Speaker 1]
There there's it's the

[00:38:12] - [Speaker 3]
same scene. I'm like when I'm drawing it, I'm like, I don't feel comfortable drawing this, but I'm gonna draw it anyway. But yeah.

[00:38:21] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. They're just lines on paper.

[00:38:24] - [Speaker 1]
You're you're right. That's that's it. But they still they you know, when there are lines on paper that are done well and colored well, they really get under my skin. And so yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:39] - [Speaker 1]
I can't wait to see where this goes. I mean, I love a lot of the stuff that Mancave I mean, I noticed the stuff that Mancave's been putting out. And, yeah, I thought this was a really fun first issue, and I can't wait to see where it goes. I really think you nailed the balance of it. I think it looks great when it needs to look great.

[00:38:53] - [Speaker 1]
Looks absolutely horrific. Marissa Louise is a fantastic colorist. I think Crank lettered it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:59] - [Speaker 1]
The the lettering's awesome as well. It's, like, just a fantastic

[00:39:04] - [Speaker 2]
We put Crank through his paces on this one. Just the nature of going back and forth from dialogue to the inner thoughts and making it all, like, flow. And Joe did a great job laying out the pages, thinking about the lettering ahead of time because good god if if this could have been like just a mess on a page. Like, the way I wrote it is, it's it's dense, but it doesn't feel dense.

[00:39:30] - [Speaker 3]
Ready for trying to be clear, man.

[00:39:32] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[00:39:34] - [Speaker 2]
Oh god. I bought a bunch of old classic X Men the other day. I'm reading through it like, holy god. It's a freaking novel. There's like like, ugh.

[00:39:43] - [Speaker 2]
This isn't this isn't good. Like, the his early stuff is way wordier than you remember it.

[00:39:49] - [Speaker 1]
Mhmm. I some of those old issues, like, where you'll have they'll, like, try and squeeze in a panel, and it the the speech bubble will be, like, this weird shape all down the side. Just get a little bit of the picture. I'm like, okay. Yeah.

[00:40:06] - [Speaker 1]
I guess there was no other way to do that.

[00:40:10] - [Speaker 2]
Cut some of the words. Could've

[00:40:12] - [Speaker 1]
done that. Have been it. Yeah. That would have been it.

[00:40:15] - [Speaker 2]
Trim.

[00:40:16] - [Speaker 1]
No. You're right. It it it never feels dense. It never feels wordy. It never feels like what what am I what am I doing here?

[00:40:23] - [Speaker 1]
So for any of the listeners who are like, you know, they they don't wanna read a novel. They wanna read a comic. Yeah. They're the the narration, it it flows really well. It really is nicely paced.

[00:40:36] - [Speaker 1]
So yeah. So you you all of that works works really, really well. And Crank did a it's a fantastic job lettering it because that can be difficult to switch back and forth, and it it never does feel, you know, too, like, exposition heavier. It never feels like Heather's inner thoughts, like, get in the way of the flow of the story. So I thought that was really well done.

[00:41:01] - [Speaker 1]
But, yeah, this was this was really great. Really great first issue. Thanks. I'm really excited to see where it goes. I never thought I'd want to see, you know, Stephen King write, you know, a rom com or a a very special episode of no more girls.

[00:41:17] - [Speaker 1]
But now I do. Now I wanna say it. It's a

[00:41:20] - [Speaker 3]
book you didn't know you needed.

[00:41:22] - [Speaker 1]
That's right. That's right. Is there anything else that either of you have coming out that you wanna mention to listeners before we wrap up?

[00:41:30] - [Speaker 3]
Well, I have a book called the other half from Ignition Press that's out now, March 2026. I think you and I are speaking about that one pretty soon, Jimmy.

[00:41:42] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. You're coming on as we record this, Joe will be back on next week. I got I got I got Joe yeah. Yeah. I got Joe two Thursdays in a row.

[00:41:51] - [Speaker 1]
We're spending our Thursdays together, Joe.

[00:41:53] - [Speaker 2]
Good

[00:41:53] - [Speaker 3]
times. And I have another Mad Cave book coming out. I don't know exactly when, but I don't know when they're gonna announce it. But the the last thing I'll say that I have is I'm I live in Texas, and they just announced Godzilla versus Texas. So I'm drawing writing and drawing I'm writing for the first time a 10 page story, writing and drawing Godzilla, and he's destroying Dallas, which is where I'm from.

[00:42:19] - [Speaker 3]
And it's very cathartic. It's very fun. And that should be out in May as well. So that's it

[00:42:26] - [Speaker 1]
for me. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that, Joe. Taking a shot at writing.

[00:42:31] - [Speaker 1]
That's fantastic.

[00:42:32] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. It's fun. Who do you think you are?

[00:42:37] - [Speaker 3]
It's basically And

[00:42:38] - [Speaker 1]
that's I think.

[00:42:39] - [Speaker 2]
You don't need me.

[00:42:41] - [Speaker 1]
And and as always, if you haven't read Engine Word, go get that. You can still find it. You can go get it. I love Engine Word.

[00:42:47] - [Speaker 3]
Continued Engine Word plugs. It's so good.

[00:42:51] - [Speaker 1]
Raper, what about you? What do you have? Anything else

[00:42:53] - [Speaker 2]
that you want to

[00:42:54] - [Speaker 1]
mention to the listeners?

[00:42:55] - [Speaker 2]
I've been working on this book called queen of hell with the heavy metal band, a sound of thunder. The first four issues of it have already come out. I'm working on the second arc right now. Juan Jose Rip is drawing the second arc. Oh.

[00:43:13] - [Speaker 2]
He's so much fun to write for. It's it's just it's just heavy metal nonsense. It's just like demons in hell and battling. It's like a heavy metal video, like writing a script for a a video. Mhmm.

[00:43:29] - [Speaker 2]
And he's another guy I worked with back at Valiant days for a little bit, but actually having direct interactions with him now. The editors at Valiant didn't like writers talking to artists. So I don't think I met Joe. I didn't even know Joe was drawing in it, like, stuff until after it was already out. And then I just say, go back and read my old stuff.

[00:43:55] - [Speaker 2]
Buy more of it. Stuff I earn royalties on, like Rock Gods. That's that was a good one that came out from Dark Horse a couple years ago. If you like mixed genres, that's basically like Stand By Me meets, From Dusk till Dawn. So if you like that that mixture, you'll definitely like rock gods.

[00:44:15] - [Speaker 2]
Well, it's alright. I wrote a I wrote a Rick and Morty. You I that pays royalties.

[00:44:19] - [Speaker 1]
Awesome.

[00:44:20] - [Speaker 2]
Buy my Rick and Mortys.

[00:44:22] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Listeners, if you if you're somebody that listens to, like, every episode of the podcast, Rafer was on, I think, with Mike Norton talking to Byron when they were promoting rock gods. And so, yeah, that's a great book. Pick that up. Also, I really loved, memory don't fail me now.

[00:44:40] - [Speaker 1]
Modern fantasy.

[00:44:41] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[00:44:42] - [Speaker 1]
I really love modern fantasy. That was a I thought that was a great comic.

[00:44:47] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. With, Kristen Gudsnook. Yeah. She's Yeah. She's got a new book out too.

[00:44:52] - [Speaker 2]
Go go get Kristen's new book. I cannot remember what the title is, but it's along the same lines a little bit like modern fantasy.

[00:45:01] - [Speaker 3]
Oh, okay.

[00:45:02] - [Speaker 2]
Sorry, Kristen. Go buy Kristen's book.

[00:45:05] - [Speaker 1]
Alright. Well, we'll, we'll figure that out. I know she there was one that Kristen did that I thought was really great, hench girl.

[00:45:13] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[00:45:15] - [Speaker 1]
That was really fun. But I'll find out what the I'll look up what the new book is, and I'll I'll I'll I'll send people, that way too. But, yeah, I really like modern fantasy. I'll put links in the show notes so you can follow Joe and Rafer on social media. You can check out what they have coming out.

[00:45:28] - [Speaker 1]
And, you can go you know, Mad Cave has something. You can buy the books right from Mad Cave. You if you can get the single issues digitally and then get a copy of the trade in print. But, you know, one of the best ways to to let publishers know that you like the books is to order it, you know, and from your local shop as well. So final order cutoff, is April 27.

[00:45:51] - [Speaker 1]
That's the date by which the local comic shop, your local shop has to get in their orders. So, so April 27, let them know, and that way you're guaranteed to get issue one of Babylon Cove, and

[00:46:03] - [Speaker 3]
it'll be out, on May 20. And we also we have a fantastic Eric Powell, variant cover

[00:46:11] - [Speaker 2]
as well. Just thinking about that.

[00:46:13] - [Speaker 3]
Oh, okay. Yeah.

[00:46:15] - [Speaker 2]
So Look at that.

[00:46:16] - [Speaker 3]
I know. Right?

[00:46:17] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. You can buy two copies. One with Joe's, one with Eric's.

[00:46:21] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Eric's cover is awesome.

[00:46:24] - [Speaker 2]
Yeah. He's so generous of his time for for doing that for us. So gnarly.

[00:46:32] - [Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah. I love it. Yeah. That looks great. So I'll that's what I usually do.

[00:46:37] - [Speaker 1]
I've I'll because, shout out to my brother Bobby, the cryptid creator corner's number one most dedicated fan. Bobby listens to all my episodes, and usually, I will get, like, one copy for me and a variant cover for Bobby, and then, we'll we'll fight it out to see who gets which. But, yeah, I really love Babylon Cove. I thought it was great. I can't wait to see where it goes.

[00:46:55] - [Speaker 1]
I can't wait to see who Heather picks. I I I hope it's the evil guy. But, Raefer, Joe, thank you so much for chatting with me on this Thursday night. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Listeners, thank you so much for listening.

[00:47:13] - [Speaker 1]
Please rate and review us. It really does help. And, you know, wherever you listen to the podcast, you can just to do that. And, yeah, thank you so much for listening. Good night, and I'll see you next time.

[00:47:27] - [Speaker 1]
Thanks.

[00:47:28] - [Speaker 4]
This is Byron O'Neil, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.

[00:47:48] - [Speaker 0]
If you enjoyed this episode of the Cryptid Creator Corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast, Into the Comics Cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.