Alex Paknadel Interview- Sentinels from Marvel Comics

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Your ears do not deceive you. You have just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_06]: You ever been to a martial arts tournament like this?

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_07]: When I was a kid there was a used bookstore in town. I begged my mom to drop me off all the time.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_07]: They had a loose stack of comics that I used to thumb through searching for secret gold. One day

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I came across Daredevil 189. That's that Frank Miller cover that's iconic with DD flying through the air in a hail of arrows.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_07]: The book was a complete snobber knocker throwdown with the hand and stick sacrifices himself to save Matt at the end.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Ever since that moment I have loved martial arts comic book.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_07]: So when fellow Yeti, Alex Green reached out about his Kickstarter project from within I was excited to find out more about it.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a 240 page martial arts revenge graphic novel about a slave fighting his way through a deadly tournament

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_07]: where the rules shift according to the whims of Eugestic, a tyrannical emperor

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_07]: full of high impact fight sequences assured to delight any fan of action focused fiction.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Artist Renzo Podesta kills the Zandra. See what I did there?

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And the whole project is already complete. So the hardest part, the one that makes you wait is already done.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Bounce on over to Kickstarter and search for from within. I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Make sure to check it out.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, the board's gone.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Y'all, Jimmy, the chaos goblin strikes again.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_07]: My bad.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_07]: He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in gear

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_07]: and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps?

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together. So I guess question mark

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It was then that I discovered Arkham Forge. If you don't know who Arkham Forge is,

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_07]: they have everything you need to make your TT RPG more fun and immersive.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Allowing you to build play and export animated maps including in-person fog of war capability

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_07]: but let your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you the DM get the full picture.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Now I'm set to easily build high res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a win every day in my book. Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code Yeti5

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_07]: to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, and welcome to comic book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one of your hosts Jimmy Gispero and I'm very excited today.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a returning guest. He hasn't been on the podcast in about two years and he's done a ton of stuff in that time.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But we're here to talk about in particular one of his new Marvel comics that he is coming out, The Sentinels,

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: which I believe is going to be out October 9th.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But he has done some of my favorite comics in the past few years and he's always a delight to chat with.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So please welcome to the podcast Alex Pachnadel. Alex, how you doing?

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks. Thanks for the thanks ever so much for having me. Jimmy, just to check. Sorry, some of some of your favorites, right?

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Not not like not like your favorites.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel bad when somebody else I feel bad if somebody else listens and they're like, oh,

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: he said Alex has written all of his favorites, but he's told me, you know, he's like,

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, the other person has written favorites too.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel bad just putting all the favorites.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, I mean, let's be honest between, you know, and I think I told you the first time you were on,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: like Arcadia, Frendo, I think was the first thing of yours that I ever went,

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: ever read Red Fork.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then in particular, you were on Last Time Right Before All Against All and all against all you and Casper Wingard.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that whole comic was just mind blowing.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I feel bad if anybody else listens to this.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But between us, all my favorites.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate it.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, that was great because like that was a bit, but it turned to like a really heartfelt and sincere thing.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_06]: So no, I mean, genuinely, thank you for that.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, like two years.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Like All Against All doesn't feel like two years ago, but I guess it was two years ago, which is nuts.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_06]: But you know, Casper's obviously gone to do The Power Fantasy with Kieran Gillen, which is tremendous.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_06]: You've read that, right?

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I have not. That's on my list, but I have not had a chance to read it yet.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've heard a ton of good things about it.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I mean Casper's like just again, tremendous, tremendous, you know, artists, the stuff he's done with.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think we joked last time that you were kind of stealing him from Dan Waters.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, Limbo, I think they did together, of course, Home Sick Pilots, which was fantastic,

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, All Against All, yeah, now The Power Fantasy with Kieran Gillen.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So very excited to check it out.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_06]: It feels like it's like a permission slip to do like Indie superheroes again.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's like this, you know, if they can pull it off and they have with a plomb,

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_06]: it's it's like I feel like it's kind of like they're holding the door open because like I love it.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Like Indie superhero, like who doesn't love Invincible?

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_06]: It just feels like a sort of real permission slip to do superheroes again.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I think we're all sort of looking at that going, oh, can we can we can we do stuff?

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think we can.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, it's going to be it's going to be a fun time.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it can be a pretty like, I guess, needle to thread in terms of doing something

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: with superheroes in the indie space and kind of bringing something like new to it.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But when writers and artists, when creators find the way to do that, and even if it's just

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: a little bit of something else that we haven't quite seen before, I just think it's really special.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, 100 percent, 100 percent.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk about some of the stuff that just for listeners who might not be

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: familiar with some of your work.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how that would be possible.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But since the last time you and I spoke, want to cover a couple of things,

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: going to hit some highlights and we'll talk about the sentinels.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But a few things that I wanted to bring up

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that I know that you've done, I think money, yeah, money.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's cool.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Clear the debt.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: They will care.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you have you've been playing around in both like the big two space

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: with stuff that you've done for Marvel and DC, in particular with Marvel.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you did Carnage and Red Goblin.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Now you have the sentinels DC.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I know you did some backup Cassandra Cain in Detective Comics, which that was fantastic.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a huge fan of that character and really like what you did with that.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that I think as we record this coming out this week,

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you have the absolute power task force seven, number five.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You're you're tackling a Barry Allen kind of flash story in that absolute,

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, power arc that they're doing.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, before that, I think you did some you part of the the night terrors

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and the the dark crisis.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You did a swamp thing story.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you've really done a lot of really cool things and still more to come.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're doing something for the 2000 AD, one of their annuals.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you have a story in the Scream 40th anniversary special.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That's another like 2000 AD rebellion thing that's coming out.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And then in particular, you you and Troy Little are which I read

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: called the Lamb number one this morning because I'm not familiar with the game.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But so I read issue one this morning.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was great not knowing really anything about it.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But that makes two of us that only press Kickstarter

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: for any listeners that don't know, they only press went on Kickstarter

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: for like the graphic novel with a goal of ten thousand dollars.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And it ended up at six hundred and eighty four thousand three hundred

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and eighty nine dollars at nine thousand four hundred and thirty nine backers,

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: which if anyone's not familiar with like comics on Kickstarter comics,

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: generally do very well on Kickstarter.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I think over 60 percent make their goal.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But still big numbers like that for a kickstarted indie comic, you know,

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_03]: even with only press in the backing of the folks that know the game is

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: in credible.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I like how on the Kickstarter page.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, they wrote that about you, Alex and Troy Little,

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that they battled both man and fate for the privilege of stewarding

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: the Lamb's first graphic chronicle.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It makes it sound very epic.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, like my recollection of it is

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_06]: like a really pleasant dinner at New York Comic Con.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_06]: But like, let's go with that.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it sounds much more exciting than a pleasant dinner.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I mean, were you were you surprised by that response at all?

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like what in terms of the Kickstarter?

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, did you have any expectation where they came to you and say,

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: hey, a lot of folks like this game, it's very well, we're going to do,

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, a graphic novel story of it.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have any, you know, expectation as to to what the response might be?

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I didn't.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think what's what's interesting about it is, you know, Hunter Goranson,

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_06]: who's running the ship over at only at the moment,

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_06]: like he knew he knew what it was going to do and was telling us what it was going to do.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And we were kind of highly skeptical because that's obviously just such an absurd amount of money.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_06]: But I mean, I really hadn't been, I hadn't been exposed to the game at all.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I'm not really like I'm not a gamer.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Again, that's not a kind of it's not I'm not I'm not a snob.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just old.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_06]: So I hadn't really been kind of exposed to it.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_06]: But when Hunter pitched me the concept,

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_06]: it was a weird it was weirdly sort of serendipitous because like I just

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_06]: been for my own research purposes, right?

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I've been reading a lot of like a sort of French anthropologist called

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_06]: René Girard who kind of talks about basically sacrifice,

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, the sort of the the the the sort of secret meaning of sacrifice, right?

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And the origins of sacrifice and sort of what it what in terms of sort

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_06]: of how it like vents social pressure and stuff.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And leads to sort of like mass catharsis amidst the sort of mass

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_06]: hysteria and all this sort of stuff.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_06]: And he pitched me the game and just said, well, it's about, you know,

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_06]: it's about a lamb that gets kind of sacrificed and then is brought back

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_06]: to life and is basically charged with sort of starting a cult

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_06]: as revenge for being sacrificed.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. And it was just it was just weird because it kind of

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_06]: initially, you know, I was I was ready to just kind of go,

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_06]: no, you know, thanks very much.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm you know, I'm I'm going to I'm going to focus on personal projects

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_06]: for a while and but it just played right in my wheelhouse.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_06]: It was really weird.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_06]: It was just OK, no, this actually kind of intersects with my interests

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_06]: in with like my current interests in a really kind of interesting way.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And then like I went away and kind of played the game,

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_06]: like absolutely loved it.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And I didn't really know what the come what I do.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Devolver, you know, who made the game, I didn't know what they wanted.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_06]: So like the first draft of the script I sent in because it was this

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of it's got these kind of it's got this like cute seasthetic.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's all very kind of cute, farmyard animals, you know,

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_06]: brandishing these sort of big big axes.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So I thought they were going to want something.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought they were going to want something goofy, right?

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_06]: So I thought, OK, well, I'll do my stuff and then I'll do something goofy.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And then the note I got back from them was basically, oh, no, no,

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_06]: like we want you to take this seriously, like, you know, do do whatever you want.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the visuals basically will

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_06]: carry the kind of goofiness if you like, not the goofiness,

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_06]: but the cuteness that the visuals will carry that.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Troy Little is perfect for this.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Man, like honestly, like that.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_06]: The thing is right, like and I say this in like hope,

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope in like all humility, all humility, like I'm not.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_06]: There are things I think I'm good at, like, you know,

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I'm good at sort of drama.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I'm pretty good at getting better at character.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_06]: But choreography and composition, you know, I'm still,

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like I'm kind of playing catch up.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And Troy, man, like just as a trust exercise,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_06]: just as a trust fall, it's just been absolutely incredible.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I can, you know, like what?

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll describe things in like the vaguest terms.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And Troy will just come back with something that just looks

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_06]: like a balletic in its choreography.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_06]: He's just incredible.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there were I mean, I've only read issue one so far.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But it is kind of remarkable because it does have, you know,

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: that type of cute woodland creature aesthetic.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: There are elements of it that are so brutal

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and you kind of forget that like, oh, it's like a cute,

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, little lamb and he's saving some other forest creatures.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's also a great

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: there's also kind of a great like humor to it

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that I don't know if I was like expecting.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you see the cover of it and you see the art

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and having like not no familiarity with the game

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_03]: or having played the game.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I didn't know where it would walk the fine line

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: between, you know, being the lamb is sacrificed in a cult

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and that kind of darkness to it juxtaposed against the artwork.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But there was also like a really fun humor to it.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like the very opening scene, like right before lamb is brought back.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: There's like just two of the other, like at the executioner

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: or two of the other like minions of the four bishops.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're just like chatting about like, you know,

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: are we going to get paid for this?

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think I can finally go buy a boat.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like they're having these casual conversations.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was I it's very easy to get kind of sucked into the

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: to the world of it all because of little moments like that.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that that stuff was all I mean, you know,

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_06]: I wear my influences on my sleeve, I think, but like that was pure

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_06]: like life of Brian, you know what I mean?

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Just like, you know, crucifixion, you know, first on the left, one cross each.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, freedom actually.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, well, you know, I was trying to kind of capture that vibe

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_06]: of just sort of, you know, catching this sort of momentous thing.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just kind of that kind of thing of, you know, catching people

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_06]: when the camera stopped rolling and, you know, the kind of

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_06]: the big sort of execution scenes happened.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, it's like you know, you're going to get takeout tonight.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, like I love that stuff.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. Like that.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Monty Python was great with that, especially the life of Brian.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Those big moments and then just the kind of like the mundanity

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_03]: in the background being brought to the forefront and mining comedy from that, you know?

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Also, like, you know, I mean, I mean, look, I'm

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not comparing what I do in any way to life of Brian.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But in terms of an aspiration, right?

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I think like that's a good that's a good poll star, right?

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Like that's a good thing to kind of aim at.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_06]: But I mean, another thing I think as well is like just as

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_06]: using those moments as like a delivery system for quite like a serious kind of,

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, like it's a serious point, right?

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I mean, what sacrifice?

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that was that was part and parcel of what I was kind of really getting into,

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I think with the sort of sacrificial stuff is like

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_06]: the, you know, this this endless kind of historical loop that we find ourselves in

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_06]: that, you know, basically, I mean, that was the thing that really interested me about it was.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, every 60 70 years, you know, culture kind of, you know, has a nervous breakdown

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and we scapegoat people and it seems to be it's it feels like a sort of it's

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_06]: for our species, it's like a law of gravity.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's obviously the most destructive and stupid thing we could possibly do

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_06]: because it never works.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_06]: It never actually solves the problem, but we keep doing it.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And like I think the game addresses that to an extent.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And I just sort of said to I mean, certainly, you know, best Polaris,

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_06]: the editor that I was doing, I said sort of upfront, like, that's what I want to do.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that's that that's the theme that I want to explore.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_06]: And best just went, yeah, run with it.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't go and, you know, so far it seems to be, you know, people seem to be enjoying it.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_06]: It's weird, man, because also I think it's I mean, again, that sort of stupid kind of,

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, astronomical kind of kickstart a figure.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_06]: A buddy of mine, you know, who has like zero interesting comics, but, you know,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_06]: like works in it, like I just bumped into him in town the other day.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_06]: And his daughter just went, oh, like I'm really enjoying the book.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_06]: What? Like are you like are you in the comics?

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh no, like I'm just like I'm just like a cult of the lamb superfan.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's got that kind of weird cross it's got that weird crossover appeal

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_06]: where it's like people who aren't comic book fans are kind of picking it up.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Weird. It's a weird feeling to have something like that big, you know, going on.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_06]: And like I'm not deluding myself.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not good, you know, my name immaterial.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, hopefully I'm sort of servicing the thing that they love kind of adequately, you know?

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, everything I've heard from other folks talking about it is is positive.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like talks about really capturing.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I get really nice note from Matt Kin, who, you know, like I've only met the once

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_06]: but like do just like put up a thing on Instagram going like, yeah, like good job.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_06]: But I was like, well, that's, you know, like, you know,

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_06]: someone I kind of look up to tremendously, you know, that was that was that was a real nice moment.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So so turning from from a cult of the lamb to to the sentinels.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So you have a new sentinels.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It is coming out October 9th.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's I think you and Justin Mason

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: are doing it.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of and now I'm hopefully there won't be too many

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Marvel fans in the comments yelling at me if I get it wrong.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess this is the for Cohen era, if I'm saying that correctly,

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: is ending.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a new like from the ashes comic.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you are actually one of the writers of the from the ashes comic on,

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I think, I guess the digital one on the the the Marvel app, like the infinity comic.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So you've been doing those, which is I understand it kind of like bridges

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the gap between like some of the things that have been going on.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So while you're you're doing that, which I think is up to issue like 1415,

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: like in the teens by now,

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you're you two are doing this new sentinels,

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: which the original Sentinels program was kind of like to police the mutants.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But now this is a force that is kind of to keep the peace

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: between humans and mutants.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that like the I guess the overarching theme of this new Sentinels comic?

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the pretext, yeah, like, or, you know, like the in universe pretext, right?

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_06]: So so sentinels as we've known them and certainly, you know,

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_06]: anyone who's kind of come at this from sort of, you know, X-Men 97,

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, they're basically big scary murder bots, you know, who are

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_06]: programmed to kill mutants.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_06]: This new Sentinel program specifically, I mean, the first thing to bear in mind is

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_06]: so the Mark II sentinels way back in the 60s, right?

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Were they were designed by Lawrence Trask, the son of Bolivar Trask,

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_06]: who invented the first Sentinels, right?

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And he subsequently, you subsequently discovered that he was a mutant, right?

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_06]: So I just kind of I took that leap into what we what if he was resurrected on Krakowa?

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So Lawrence Trask, who invented the Mark II sentinels is resurrected on Krakowa.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_06]: He is a mutant.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, you know, his objective is not destroy all mutants,

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_06]: but he does have this like caddy cornered sense of what

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_06]: peace between humans and mutants looks like.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_06]: So what I,

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, and to be very clear, because I know, you know, that there has been some,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, some readers understandably have questions, right?

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, this is not my position like I'm T mutant, like 100 percent.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_06]: But Trask's position is that basically

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_06]: mutant kind is now at a very, very dangerous impasse

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_06]: in the sense that they're trying to reintegrate into human society,

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_06]: having had their own homeland, which has been, you know, stripped from them

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_06]: in like the cruelest possible way.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_06]: You're rather, you know, it has become untenable for them all to live there, right?

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_06]: So

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_06]: let them come back trying to, you know, diaspora community is trying to integrate

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_06]: and Larry Lawrence, sorry, has like basically come to conclusion that

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_06]: there needs to be like a firebreak between humans and mutants,

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_06]: because otherwise they're going to kill each other, right?

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_06]: So like there needs to be a best way to do that is to,

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and I say this in inverted commerce, because again, not my view,

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_06]: but like his thing is we have to take the bad mutants off the streets

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_06]: because bad mutants will create flashpoints that will make a war

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_06]: between humankind and mutant kind inevitable.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_06]: So he's partnered with if you read Gail Gail and David's

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_06]: on Cani X men, the old Xavier mansion is now Gray Malkin prison.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like it's a prison for it's a prison for mutants.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And the way we sort of the way, you know, the way kind of Gail

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_06]: and I kind of structured it is that, you know, the sentinels are

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of running out of Gray Malkin prison, but they're like US marshals.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_06]: So what they're doing is the prison runs as the prison and it has its own guards.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_06]: They're the sentries and they're kind of fanatics.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_06]: They're like anti mutant fanatics, but the sentinels who are a group

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_06]: of they're no longer like stompy murder bots.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_06]: They're human beings who've been augmented by nanotech.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_06]: We've had a version of that before with the prime sentinels,

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_06]: but these guys are slightly different.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_06]: OK. And they they basically go out and apprehend

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_06]: mutants that Lawrence Trask thinks are going to cause a problem.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And then they're kind of incarcerated in this kind of terrible,

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_06]: oppressive mutant prison.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_06]: But he's obviously at odds with the management of the prison because

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_06]: that you know, the management of the prison is like explicitly like anti

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_06]: mutant, whereas he's like, no, you know, I'm going to do this job.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to bring you these people because if I bring you these people,

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_06]: these bad dudes like Sebastian Shaw or omega red,

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_06]: it makes a conflict between humans and mutants less likely.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: OK. So with that in mind, one of the things I wanted to ask and

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, you kind of brought up because you said you said twice

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: when you were going through that, that it's like Lawrence,

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: the characters view, Lawrence Trask's view, not your own.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Like when you're writing something like this, how much does that

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: concern you that readers will, you know, kind of take

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: the characters viewpoint in your work and attribute them to you?

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And do you find that happens more with something like when you're

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: working with DC or Marvel or when you're doing creator owned or is

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: it something that you actively think about and are concerned about?

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm concerned about it to the extent that I think nobody wants to be misunderstood,

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_06]: like nobody wants to be misunderstood.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. You know, just and it's, I think, particularly like in an era of social

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_06]: media, I think it's increasingly easy to be misunderstood and people will kind of

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_06]: ascribe motivations to you that maybe you don't have.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, again, like I'm not winging like I have the best job in the world.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_06]: It's fine. But.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it I think we are kind of an interesting point where.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_06]: If a super villain articulates their position well,

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_06]: which in my view is just good writing, right?

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. You know, like I mean, again, I'm not comparing myself in any way.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, just in terms of sort of, you know, like, you know, setting the standard, right?

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_06]: What is it? You know, William Blake said of John Milton, you know,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_06]: that he was of the devil's party and didn't realize it.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_06]: He wasn't. He just wrote Lucifer really, really well

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and had Lucifer kind of articulate his position so well

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_06]: that you could be you could be forgiven for thinking that it's like an

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_06]: apologia for like for Satan, right?

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not. It's just, you know, Milton knew how to write characters really, really well.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying I do, but certainly I think.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a danger there of kind of, you know, if you read, you know,

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_06]: it's our job as writers, I think, to give even bad people a defensible rhetorical

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_06]: position because otherwise they're just cardboard cutouts, right?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Like they need to believe what they're saying.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_06]: And in order for them to believe what they're saying, it needs to be at the very

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_06]: least internally consistent.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't worry about it to the extent that I let it kind of change how I write

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_06]: because I think that way kind of madness lies, you know,

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_06]: because otherwise I'd second guess myself constantly, like I wouldn't get anything

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_06]: done, like I have to do it and I'm certainly not going to.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm certainly not going to put out a knowingly inferior product.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Because, but again, like that's not like

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_06]: it's a very fine line, right?

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Because like I don't want to I don't write things to offend people either.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Or at the very least I do, you know, if I am going to offend people like I

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_06]: want it to be like awful people, I'm happy to offend awful people.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm happy to offend.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm happy to offend fascists.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_06]: That's fine.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_06]: If they're upset, that's OK.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if they're upset like I've done my job, that's great.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_06]: But I but yeah, I mean, I can't kind of second guess myself constantly

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_06]: because like there are only so many hours in the day, right?

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_06]: But with something like this, I think it's and again, I mean,

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I will either pass or fail and, you know, the market will tell me

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_06]: if I've passed or fail.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think a lot of it is to do with

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_06]: just remaining kind of mindful and ever cognizant of the fact that

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_06]: whichever character you're dealing with, I mean, and this is particularly true

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_06]: of X, I think, and you have to respect it and you have to factor it in.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_06]: It doesn't matter who you're dealing with, right?

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Like they could be kind of a marginal character

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_06]: who's been seen in, you know, a one shot in like 1993.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Like that will be at least three people's favorite character

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and that will be like Twitter, AVI and they will kind of have established

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_06]: their whole identity and sense of self on that character, no matter how minor.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_06]: And that carries with it a.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Responsibility.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, which I think it doesn't extend to

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_06]: and this I think is the difference, right?

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't it doesn't extend to being nice to them, right?

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Because and I've had this conversation with many, many

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_06]: writers and like it's not our job to be nice to characters.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_06]: It really isn't. In fact, that is antithetical to drama, right?

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Stephen King says, you know, the job of the writer is to establish

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_06]: someone you care about, then put them up in a tree and throw rocks at them.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, that's that's all drama is, right?

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_06]: It's someone you care about in a perilous situation.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_06]: And that, you know, the degree of peril can change,

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_06]: but they're always in a tight spot because otherwise you don't have a story.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_06]: You have you have.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Ortega, right?

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, you know, it's it's only a story because there's conflict.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_06]: So you can't go that.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_06]: But what you can be and what I strive to be is respectful of them.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And I mean, there was a.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_06]: It was an interesting one recently, which was, you know, again,

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_06]: you mentioned that I'm doing the kind of from the ashes thing.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. The X-Men digital comic where I did

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_06]: a story involving characters called Havoc and the Goblin Queen,

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Madeline Pryor and Alex Summers, Cyclops's Cyclops's brother.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, it was a relationship that a lot of people were heavily invested in.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And because one of those characters is no longer in that relationship

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_06]: in one of the other books, X Factor, it kind of fell to me

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_06]: to sort of effectively get them from that relationship to this like new place.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And there are a lot of people who liked what I did.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_06]: There are a lot of people who hated what I did.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But interestingly, Philip Seavy, who who who illustrated it,

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_06]: your friend of mine and, you know, he knows that I'm kind of horrendously thin skinned.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_06]: So he was kind of he was effectively kind of taking like positive clippings

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_06]: from around the internet going, look, they don't hate you.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_06]: It's cool. Look at this.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_06]: But the ones that I've genuinely the ones that I found most gratifying.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I think that, you know, it's an it's like I feel like it's an index

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_06]: of craft more than personal taste.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_06]: The ones that I found really interesting were the ones that sort of fell between.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_06]: And what I mean by that is

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_06]: the ones where they disagreed with how it was handled,

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_06]: but they they appreciated how it was executed.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, OK, that's that's kind of what I'm after, right?

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Like because, you know, praise could just be coming from,

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, just just unalloyed praise.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, don't be wrong. I love it.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm a writer.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm vain and egotistical.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I love I love unconditional praise, but I also, you know, deep down

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_06]: like I know it's not kind of real.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_06]: But then something which is, you know, like this, you know, people kind of,

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, people who think that, you know, I should sort of, you know,

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_06]: sit in a corner and think about what I've done for three weeks.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that's necessarily kind of a realistic kind of

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_06]: or I don't think it's a neutral appraisal, right?

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_06]: But the ones where people kind of going like,

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't like how this was handled, but I thought it was handled well.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_06]: That I thought like that I found genuinely very gratifying because, you know,

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_06]: you're almost it's not like you're winning people over, you know,

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_06]: no one's like your biggest fan or anything, but it's just kind of,

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_06]: yes, there is a level of craft here that I can see, you know,

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_06]: that I found very gratifying.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know I think that makes a lot of sense.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That was nice that that Philip Seavy would send you those positive comments,

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_03]: search them one by one.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_06]: He just knows like I'm an easily startled woodland creature.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_06]: That's it.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: There you go, man. You're fine. You're fine. Don't worry.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that makes it even, you know, more interesting though to take on

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_03]: any type of big two work, you know, right?

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, anything for Marvel or DC that has such like a long time

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: following a loyal following fans that are more active, you know,

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: online to kind of play in that pool.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, certainly when you look at like sales numbers,

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_03]: they're going to be higher than than, you know, indie comics and creator

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_03]: own stuff. But, you know, that's the other side of it,

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that if you do pay attention to reviews or what folks say online

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that there can be, you know, a lot more of that,

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_03]: especially with like what you're saying, even if it's a minor character,

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're you're doing bad things to the to their favorite character,

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_03]: which, you know, that's that's you're right.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you need conflict.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You need drama and that's what, you know, you need to do.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, you've certainly taken on like some pretty,

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, interesting characters.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I thought like, like again, Red Goblin, I really my brother

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: is much more well versed in Marvel

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and he really wanted to collect Red Goblin.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_03]: He reads quite a few Marvel comics that I shout out my brother, Bobby,

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_03]: every episode. So here's here's my shout out to Bobby,

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: the Cryptic Creator Corners number one most dedicated fan.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He listens to all my episodes.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so Bobby wanted to collect it and added it to the pull list.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I read it, you know, because I would I pick up our pull list

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm like, oh, well, Alex is I'm going to read, you know, Red Goblin.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And I found it easy to kind of get into.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt like the very, you know, I knew I knew I knew who all the characters were

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that I needed to know and, you know, didn't feel like I needed.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Months and months of an education or to sit there with like Wikipedia

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: or Marvel's website open to like Google who folks are.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just really enjoyed it.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was really.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that is also I mean, that that is kind of the

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_06]: that's the objective, right?

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think it's, you know, like I mean, at the moment,

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of working under.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Tom Breivall, who is.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Like an extraordinary guy.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, he he very, you know, he has this like laser focus

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_06]: on stuff being new reader friendly, right?

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, even down to kind of like characters

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_06]: referring to each other by their code names, like at least once per issue.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_06]: So like everything's,

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, like nothing feels kind of impenetrable.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Nothing feels as you say, you know, nothing feels like you need

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_06]: like an advanced like if you need a Marvel handbook,

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_06]: like by your side when you're reading.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, like that's that's no good, right?

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Like it's got to be instantly engaging, you know,

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_06]: that all that process of onboarding has to be like frictionless.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been an education.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_06]: It really has, you know.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. I mean, because you have to let a new reader know

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: who everybody is, but nobody wants like a huge exposition dump

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_03]: in order for you to feel like you can enjoy, you know, the issue.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And like very quickly within a few panels, I got who,

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, Normie was the story, you know, what was going on with Norman

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and Harry and Dylan Brock.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, great, OK, I got it.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so just like, yeah.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was really fun, really good, really enjoyed it.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, that's I read.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my to be read pile is like huge.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I try to get through like what I can, but I do tend to read more indie stuff.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But I will venture into DC and Marvel when there's a writer

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that I know that is doing stuff over there.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, really enjoyed that.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's take a quick break.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_07]: After a string of unexplained

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_07]: disappearances in the southern parts of the United States,

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_07]: retired detective Clint searches for his white trash brother.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_07]: While searching for him, he ends up being abducted by aliens.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_07]: He is now in the arena for big guns, stupid rednecks,

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_07]: an intergalactic cable's newest hit show, which puts him

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and other humans in laser gun gladiatorial combat.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And his brother is the reigning champion with 27 kills.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the premise for a new book from Banda Barnes, big guns,

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Stupid Rednecks.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I got a chance to see an advanced preview of this book and being from the south.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Honestly, I was a bit skeptical going in, but they won me over

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_07]: and nothing is more powerful than an initially skeptic convert in my book.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_07]: In Jimmy's words, big guns, stupid rednecks is many things,

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_07]: but it isn't subtle.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_07]: It tells you exactly what it is up front.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Then it delivers with a great premise, fantastic art and a whole mess of fun.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I had a great time reading Big Guns, Stupid Rednecks

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_07]: and what I thought was going to be an indictment of redneck culture

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_07]: quickly showed it was actually a love letter.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_07]: A family mystery, brother pitted against brother, aliens,

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_07]: fighting for profit and a big arena.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_07]: This truly has it all.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Issue one is out already, but you can still pick up a copy

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_07]: on the Banda Barnes website and current issues are available

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_07]: via your previews or lunar order form or just ask your LCS.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't miss it.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's get back to the show.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of that with that kind of, you know,

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: collaborative effort that is maybe needed a little bit more so

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: when you're working on something for Marvel, like all against all,

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you have your, you know, you and Casper, the rest of the creative team,

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: your editor, you know, but like you said with.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: What Marvel is doing right now and from the ashes, you have the digital one.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You have the main storyline that Gail's involved in.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Jed McKay's writing one as well and the other artists.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So how does that process like really differ?

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, is it is it a lot more time consuming just to kind of coordinate that?

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I imagine if Tom Brevoort is overseeing all of it,

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: is, you know, do you guys get like a Bible in terms of what the whole plan is?

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Or how does that work compared to when you're just sitting there

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_03]: doing something creator owned and kind of, you know,

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_03]: what are the differences really, like practically?

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, weirdly, I mean, kind of, I mean, for me,

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_06]: it was less of a culture shock, I think.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm not suggesting that it was for anybody else necessarily

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_06]: because I know that like writers rooms have become more normalized,

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_06]: particularly actually since, you know, Hickman convened like the first one

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_06]: for kind of Krakowa, you know, that was it was a discord

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_06]: and it was like a zoom, you know, it was like an ongoing kind of zoom thing

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and a slack and all that kind of stuff.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So they're perpetually in dialogue

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_06]: and I mean, you know, like, you know, Tom has a Bible

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_06]: and Tom has an approach, but, you know, he's certainly kind of encouraging us to

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_06]: liaise with each other.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, we do have, you know, there are sort of groups where it's, you know, myself,

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, Jason Lowe, you know, Gail Simone,

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Erica Schultz, you know, Jed, as you say,

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_06]: and, you know, we'll kind of, you know, we sort of tempeg out what we're doing

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_06]: and sort of see maybe sort of are there sort of shared interests here,

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, are there sort of vectors of intersection?

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_06]: But also I think, you know, I mean, Tom's very keen for those books to kind of

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_06]: to not get too deep into the weeds kind of cross over wise, like straight off the bat,

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_06]: like he wants them to kind of forge their own identities first, which I think is really smart.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_06]: But I mean, I think

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_06]: but I mean, weirdly,

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I kind of have that.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, even with my indie stuff, you know, because I'm part of a writer's group

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_06]: with Rhino Sullivan, Ramvi and Dan Waters.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we just show, we just, we basically kind of,

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_06]: we could just give notes on each other's stuff anyway.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's like it wasn't too much of a kind of tire screech for me.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Certainly. I mean, I don't know whether it was for anyone else, but it was like, OK,

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah, I know this, it's like a different group, but it's just what we do anyway.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, you know, you just there's the script and it gets, you know,

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_06]: it gets kind of it has to kind of run a gauntlet before it ever kind of makes it to an editor.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's kind of what's happening here as well.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's not that unfamiliar to me. It's quite comfortable, you know?

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_06]: OK. I mean, there's always a danger of like too many cooks, I guess.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_06]: But I also, you know, it's I've never been steered wrong yet, you know, by those guys.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah. Well, that's good.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Good. And I was always just curious as to how those kind of big,

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, projects, you know, work from a practical standpoint.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I guess different writers kind of would have,

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, might have a different approach or. Oh, yeah.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's because like, like, like there is a Bible, right?

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Like there's definitely like there's a thing that there's a shape to these books

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_06]: that, you know, the Marvel wants.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, it's not so kind of it's not it's not it's not in any way kind of

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_06]: ossified, right? Like we are we are free to iterate on that and to make

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_06]: suggestions and to make changes and to kind of go, well, what about this?

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's like all they've really established is like the platform for the storytelling.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, if we want to kind of go and like, you know, riff on that fine,

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, it's been it's very it's a very freewheeling kind of environment.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_06]: It's really nice. Oh, good.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Good. As you said earlier, that you kind of wear your influences on your sleeve.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So where can you talk?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there anywhere in particular in terms of this sentinels that you,

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, tapped into or that you, you know, can reference that you kind

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: of drew inspiration from for this type of, you know, this type of story?

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, man. I mean, comic wise, I'd say, you know, strike force moratury,

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_06]: which is, you know, if you haven't encountered it is like it's a great book, man.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a great book. It's it's

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_06]: just yeah, like a group of people kind of repelling an alien invasion with kind

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_06]: of superpowers that will definitely kill them.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_05]: OK, so, you know, and it's it's this

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_05]: it's

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_06]: very like it's quite low key.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, not the book isn't low key, but, you know, it's

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_06]: it's definitely kind of like a satire,

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_06]: but it kind of wears that quite lightly.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's action it's action forward.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I suppose the other influences, which won't surprise you, given what I've

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_06]: just said, are like like RoboCop, Starship Troopers,

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, that kind of thing.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's very kind of

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_06]: it's like it's simultaneously like like

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_06]: like RoboCop, I find very funny.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think I find but I also find RoboCop

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_06]: deeply, deeply moving and tragic, right?

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And like that's kind of what I'm aiming for, I suppose here is

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_06]: just it's because the characters themselves, you know, the people who've

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_06]: been given this kind of sentinel treatment, you know, they are

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, they're all like ex military

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_06]: and this is like a passport to like a new life.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, as with anything, you know, it's it's it's

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_06]: a monkey's paw, right?

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Like it's everything is not what it seems.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, I mean, I won't sort of expound on that too much.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_06]: But

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to kind of build like even though these are people who

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_06]: are doing something that is obviously deeply morally questionable,

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I want them I want it to be, you know, like their victims too

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_06]: in a way which will become evident.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: OK.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny you said I said what you just said about RoboCop

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think Starship Troopers, I just saw

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: just this past week, someone had a tweet that was what three

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_03]: films should be watched as an unofficial trilogy.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the answers I saw was RoboCop, Starship Troopers

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and Total Recall, you know, the original

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Schwartzinger one rather than the remake.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I I was like, yeah, I mean, if you're doing, you know, what is that?

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Early 90s films, that's not a bad that's not a bad way to go.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_06]: We all all amazing as well.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I think like Paul Verhoeven, I just have I don't know.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I have undying respect for that guy just in terms of kind of.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's really interesting that

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_06]: like when I first watched it as a kid, I had no idea it was a satire.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I just assumed it was I like by the way,

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_06]: like I have no problem with those movies at all.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I'm not saying they're lesser in any way, but like I just assumed

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_06]: it was kind of it was it was, you know, the same

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_06]: if you know it should be mentioned in the same breath as like Predator

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_06]: and Die Hard and obviously it hits all of those beats

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and does it beautifully.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_06]: But also, you know, it's got this kind of like undercurrent of like deep

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of longing and like

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_06]: it's it's it's weird.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Like it's a ferociously intelligent movie, but like under the hood.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Like it's not flashy about it.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_06]: But like the more you think about it, you kind of go, oh no,

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_06]: like there's so much in here about like late stage capitalism

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_06]: that like actually came true.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, this idea of like corporations owning police forces and stuff like that,

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_06]: which is like wildly dystopian and like absolutely where we are headed.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I know it's you know, I saw I mean, all three of those movies,

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Robocop, Starship Troopers and Total Recall, I saw probably shortly after

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: they came out, you know, when I was a kid.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But watching them years later and even with Starship Troopers,

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: there's something always pop up online where, you know, arguing about the satire of it all.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But watching those films years later, how that's possible, though, like I mean,

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_06]: someone pointed out to me a while ago because like the whole thing like

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_06]: but like he you know, when he when he like when Johnny Rico joins up,

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_06]: do you remember?

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_06]: And there's like the guy who's like mobile infantry made me the man I am today

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_06]: and just like pushes the chair out.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And like he's got no legs.

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_06]: And you're like, yeah, I think it might be a satire.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because it's all it's like that is just all played like straight,

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_03]: like like a propaganda film.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But you seeing it years later, not getting that as a kid.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh yeah, it's army people against bugs, space marines against bugs.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_03]: This is great. Hey, a doogie houses in it.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the one that got a buddy of mine pointed out as well.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Like again, I mean, I don't know if I haven't seen it in a while.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_06]: But a buddy of mine said to me a while ago, he said,

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_06]: like, do you notice that in the film, like it's very strongly,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_06]: strongly implied that we started it?

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, oh, and that was OK.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because like they yeah, there are moments that it's like very

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_03]: strongly implied that like we went to their planet and like wipe them out,

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, like type of an expansion type of situation, you know,

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and then they retaliate and I think they take out

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires. Right. Yeah.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just watching it years later.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so funny when you watch those and have such which

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_06]: is like suddenly like inexplicably become Beverly Hills.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Like yeah, it's like nobody explains why.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Like yeah, no, it's so good, man.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so. Yeah, really?

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Can we talk about cool movies for the rest of week?

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_03]: We can. If you want, I think it was you who I saw on, you know,

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I just Twitter, I mean, it's Twitter is like,

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, awful and the algorithms terrible and I don't like Elon Musk one

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_03]: little bit, but I still feel like it's the place I go just to like

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_03]: see what's going on in the world.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really like too many of the other social media sites.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it was you on Twitter.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to say who was talking about the fly recently, which is one of.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like I went on a tear about.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I love the fly.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just just absolutely love it as a movie.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So we could we could do the flycast where we just talk about the fly.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's see.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_06]: So let's let's see if I can.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, there's the wall of crap, but like there's my there's my poster.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And have I got it here?

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Like this never really leaves my side.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, OK.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that like a is that like the art of the fly or?

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, it's some it's like it's a it's a making of.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's like the only real kind of making of like that was ever

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_06]: like it's a deep dive into it.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, where what else?

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_06]: What else have I got here?

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That's like the reference book that I keep at my desk kind of all

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_06]: the time.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's it's a bit of a thing.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, yeah, yeah.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That's another movie that I saw as a kid and

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, thought it was great, like what a great kind of horror flick.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, David Davis is awesome.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Jeff Goldblum's like wonderful.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, that's another film that like someone was talking about

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_03]: in a few years ago, I went and revisited it.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was just like, oh, wow.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it works on that level, sure.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But there are so many little things that I just did not just went right over

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: my my head as a kid that I went back and and watched just about.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, like humanity in general.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just and Goldblum and Gina Davis's performance are just fantastic.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's so many layers to it, I feel.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, 100 percent.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And the I think the really interesting thing about it is that.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_06]: The first half of that movie, like there are bits, you know, there's like,

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, the baboon turned inside out and all that kind of, you know,

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_06]: they're kind of there are horror.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_06]: There are horror moments, but like the really, like the really stomach churning

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_06]: stuff, like the stuff that really kind of keeps you awake is.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Basically, all in the it's all super compressed into the last 30 minutes.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_06]: It's like you it looms so large in the popular imagination,

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, it's that last 30 minutes is so extreme.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's so unpleasant.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_06]: But the first hour structurally is basically a rom-com.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_06]: And like a really good one, a really good one.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_06]: No, you totally buy that relationship and you yeah, you mourn it.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And you're like, what are you doing?

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, why are you being like, why are you being such a tool to this

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_06]: woman who's been like awesome to you?

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And oh, that's why you're being a tool.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_05]: It's and like.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_05]: It's also instructive.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_06]: It's always been so kind of instructive to me in the sense that

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_06]: like I kind of.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I kind of learned story structure from it in a weird way.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_06]: It's and it kind of went in quite kind of deeply

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_06]: just in terms of, oh, like that's how you kind of that's how you

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_06]: build dramatic tension.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, that's how you build kind of audience investment.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think it's been such an interesting.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_06]: It's been such an interesting.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_06]: It's one of those interesting films because as you say.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_06]: People who just like who love like splatter love it.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_06]: And then there are people who love drama love it.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. I remember talking to kind of Andrew Ellard, who's

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_06]: you know, one of.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_06]: A really kind of eminent kind of script, scriptwriter and

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_06]: script doctor here in the UK.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And like I was just kind of like we were just riffing about it.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, yes, best movie ever made.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And he went, yes, it is the best movie ever made.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a perfect film.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Just dramatically, it's just a perfectly crafted film.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what it does?

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_06]: The way it just kind of, you know, it the way it kind of.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Perfectly follows a kind of character arc is just that

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_06]: that kind of parabola.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just it's beautifully made.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's interesting because, you know, you.

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Like.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_06]: You get a lot of a lot of things where someone goes, oh, it's body horror.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_06]: And you go, OK, that's cool.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_06]: And you check it out.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And like there are exceptions, man.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I mean something like Titan.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Like Titan to me is yeah, that's that's body horror.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_06]: But like if it's if it's literally just like people melting.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not that's not body horror.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not because it's not horrific.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_06]: It's it's it's cool.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't get me wrong.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I love, you know, I love like I'm like I'm a big kind of

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_06]: grindhouse guy.

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_06]: OK, but it doesn't scare me like the fly scares me and it doesn't

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_06]: scare me because of what's happening on screen.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_06]: It scares me because of what it means.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, but like Robo Robocop as well for like almost the

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_06]: same reason like that there's a line in Robocop.

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Like it's weird.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, again, never happened when I was a kid, but just, you

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_06]: know, because like Robocop to me now, like as a horrible

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_06]: cruxity old man, like that's a movie about, you know, is

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_06]: it possible to retain one's humanity at a stage of like

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_06]: terminal capitalism?

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_06]: And ultimately, I think the film is saying yes.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_06]: But there's just this line at the end of it that just

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_06]: kills me every time now.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_06]: And like it never, you know, it went completely over my

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_06]: head as a kid.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_06]: But like right at the end when, you know, Lewis has been

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_06]: shot and everything.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, Peter Weller who's just giving like the

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_06]: performance of his life, dude.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And like, you know, again, you know, under so much like

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Goldblum in the fly, right?

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Doing it under like, you know, pounds and pounds and

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_06]: pounds and pounds of like prosthetics.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_06]: And Lewis just goes, you know, was, you know, Murphy.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a mess.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_06]: And he just says like, you know, like he's with that

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of great kind of, you know, that robotic voice

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_06]: and everything, even through that with this like

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_06]: bottomless sadness, man.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_06]: He just says, they'll fix you.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_06]: They fix everything.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_06]: And like the last couple of times I've watched it like

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_06]: genuinely hand to God, like I've cried.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_06]: It's so sad.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_06]: It's so sad.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_06]: They'll fix you.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_06]: They fix everything.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, come on.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_06]: And there's another one I think in the fly again that

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_06]: just gets me every time now again, the older I

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_06]: get, what is it?

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm an insect who dreamed he was a man

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and loved it.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_06]: But now the dream is over and the insect is awake

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and I will hurt you if you stay.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Beautiful.

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Beautiful.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, I did say, I did say we were going to go.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's fine.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll, you know, I don't get to watch.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't get a chance to make the time to watch

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: too many movies anymore or talk about that

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_03]: about movies, but man, yeah, I just there's something

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: about revisiting some of those like films that

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_03]: are considered classics for a reason and

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: just anything like just love that about it.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Horror movies that make you think are more horrific.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's a couple of a few movies that I

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, jump scares are one thing and I

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I love I never liked horror movies as a kid.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And then when I was maybe in seventh or eighth grade,

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I was in a program for like a couple of students.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03]: They had like a I don't know if they called it like

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: a gifted program or whatever it was.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But the real thing was we got to go to a gifted

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Jimmy World friend.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's what it was.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Pride.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We went to a talk that you could pick different

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: people's stories and they had different

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: the other talks to go to.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And they had ones on the environment and all

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, which is kind of what I was interested

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: in back then, but everybody else in the group

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: was going to this one about monsters.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, All right, I'll just, you know,

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_03]: go, I'll go with everybody else.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: My mom was like, are you sure you don't like

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_03]: scary movies?

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, everyone else's going, I'll go.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It was one of the best things I'd ever gone to.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was really kind of deconstructing

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: our movie monsters, you know, like at the time

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're popular in the late 80s into the 90s

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_03]: like Freddy Krueger, Jason, but it was just

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_03]: fascinating to delve into the connection

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: between almost like fairy tales and those

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_03]: types of stories to like the monster movies

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that we have today.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just loved it.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And I went on like a tear and just like went to

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the local blockbuster because it was still

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_03]: blockbusters were still around then and

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: just rented everything I could think of

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: to get caught up on it.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And but still even with that background,

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_03]: there was still a ton that went over my head.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So I still go back and try and revisit some

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_03]: of those.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And even in the early 80s,

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not just the story but also like the acting,

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_03]: the pacing of the fly, the way that, you know,

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Jeff Goldblum is there.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_03]: There's still that bit of scientist in him where he's

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_03]: like, out of logging all the things that happened to me.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_03]: That makes the body horror of it even like more

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_03]: upsetting that he's treating himself like as

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_03]: as the experiment and you know, he has what is

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: it in his medicine cabinet?

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He has all the little things that have fallen off of him,

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that he's saved and cataloged.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but there's a couple of including the big one.

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, there's a couple of films though

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_03]: that I went when I went through that that I still will

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_03]: rewatch and think about like the remake of

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That ending devastates me every time with

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_06]: which remakes by the way because like that

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_06]: like, I think all but all but one of all but

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_06]: one of like there have been three remakes

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_06]: and like two of them were awesome.

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_06]: The Donald Sutherland one, you know, is awesome.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Is it, oh God, is it Toby Hoopa did one or

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_06]: or no, it's not Toby, but the 90s one's really good as well.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh really? I don't know if I've got that.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's real good. It's real good.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The ending of that just devastated is devastating.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Just nothing terrifies me like when

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Donald Sutherland shows up at the end and

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_03]: the one character thinks like, oh, I have a buddy.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name of the actress just went right out of my head.

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But like that the her scream.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, her scream at the end of that,

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: like the possibility that she's the only person,

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: the only human like left left alive.

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_03]: A film like Event Horizon is another one that

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought was kind of fun schlocky horror.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But like I don't know that type of cosmic horror

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and Sam Neill's performance in Event Horizon always gets me

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_03]: as another one that I think is the standout for me.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting though, isn't it?

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I think like, I mean to really get kind of

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_06]: get into the weeds, your society's monsters kind of tells you

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_06]: almost everything you need to know,

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I think about that society, right?

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_06]: So like invasion of the body snatchers,

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_06]: night of the living dead, you know,

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_06]: it's like American culture and I suppose western culture

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_06]: to an extent, I mean largely driven I suppose by kind

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_06]: of consumerism but also like at the time like fear of communism.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Like there's an absolute like abject like terror

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_06]: of conformity, right?

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Of like group think and you know the kind of the horror

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_06]: of being identical, of doubles, you know,

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_06]: and that's kind of played out like but like you can see it

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of you know, snapshots of any kind of given period

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_06]: you know the monsters will tell you kind of what's going on

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_06]: almost more than CNN ever could, you know.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well we'll have to, we're closing in

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: on an hour here.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I told you it'd be about 45 minutes.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel bad.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Please, it's great.

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: No, yeah, this has been wonderful but yeah,

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: this episode will always great talking to you man.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: This episode is going to come out before the release

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: of The Sentinels number one on October 9th, Alex,

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Justin Mason doing the artwork but I'm going to add it

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: to the poll list.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be getting it.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm you know, really just a huge fan of your work

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and if anyone please if anyone listening to this

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: if you didn't catch the first episode of you're a new listener

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: to the Cryptid creator corner.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Please, please, please get the trade of all against all

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and get Red Fork.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Red Fork is absolutely phenomenal.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Another story that just could be a great horror graphic

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: novel and body horror elements to it.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And you'll have a wonderful time just reading it on that level

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_03]: but if you go in with the tiniest of shovels

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and dig a little deeper, you will have an even more

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: rewarding experience with Red Fork.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you look at some of the other stuff Alex has done,

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: he's always worked with phenomenal collaborators.

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_03]: If you like big robots, there's Giga or Giga.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure how it's pronounced but yeah, Giga.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And the first thing I ever read, I think it was a vault comics

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: was Frendo and Frendo is another...

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_05]: It's having a bad day.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Frendo really just throws you right in some pretty deep water

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_03]: with some of the concepts in Frendo.

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, well worth the time and effort.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you haven't, check out Cold of the Lamb.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never played the video game before.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know if I've heard of it just because I'm old

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and I don't play video games anymore.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish I did something against video games.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I read issue number one and I'm going to read the rest of it.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That was great.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Troy Little's art is phenomenal.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So all right, well now I feel like I'm bad

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm keeping Alex here while he probably has stuff

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: to do with his family and I'm having an Alex

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Pachnodale commercial.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, get the Sentinels October 9th.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll take as many of them as I go in.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Honestly, it's like you and my mom basically at this point.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's real quick.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of your mom, how's the Turkish detective?

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like the pretty...

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like dude, yeah.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Alex is for listeners that don't know, Alex's mom

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: is a writer and more recently, I think the character

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or some of the story in her books has now become

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_03]: a television show, The Turkish Detective.

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_06]: So like she's been writing these,

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_06]: the detective Ikmen novels set in Istanbul

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_06]: since I was like 19, 20 and I'm now significantly older

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_06]: than that.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So she's got like, she's written like 26 of them,

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I think and like 15 others.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_06]: She's like Stephen King prolific.

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And it recently just got turned into like a Paramount

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Plus TV show.

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it's been shown in the States yet,

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_06]: but like Paramount Global made it.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And it was shown in the UK recently.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_06]: And we didn't know what it was going to do.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And like yeah, like it did just like insane

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_06]: viewing figures, just like, I mean, you know,

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean we're a small country in it.

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_06]: It was doing like 4 million, which was just nuts.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_06]: And then like all of a sudden I was just,

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, the first night it was broadcast.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I was kind of joking with kind of friends.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I was just going like at like at nine o'clock this evening,

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_06]: like I become like a nepo baby, like officially at this,

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_06]: like as the clock strikes 9 p.m.,

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_06]: like when this TV show gets broadcast,

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_06]: like I have to go, yeah, I'm a nepo.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, like I think I'm,

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I'm a nepo baby.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I'm a nepo grandpa, like I don't know.

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: What are those?

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's awesome.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: That's fantastic.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, she's great man.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_06]: She's much smarter than me.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's not difficult, but yeah, she's great.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, more continued success for both of you.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That's very exciting, but yeah.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I want a pony, you know.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you got to get something out of it.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I want to be a nepo baby.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_06]: I want some free shit.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got to get a couple of things, you know,

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a set visit, a set visit, you know, something.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, I got nothing.

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I got nothing.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even get like a crew cap.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, one of those cool chairs, you know,

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: like one of those cool director chairs that they,

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they let guest stars sit in something like,

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that says the Turkish detective, you know,

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_06]: like instead, instead of royalties.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you listeners for listening.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you to my guest, Alex Pagnadel, please, the Sentinel.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks Jimmy.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I appreciate you having me.

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: October 9th.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, thanks for listening again.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see you next time.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for listening.