Anthony Cleveland and Alex Cormack Interview - Buried Long, Long Ago

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[00:01:29] Head to 2000AD.com and click on subscribe now or download the 2000AD app and why wait, start reading today. I'll put links in the show notes for you. Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm one of your hosts Jimmy Gasparro and I have two guests on the show, two returning guests who I guess had so much fun the last time or maybe no one else would have them. That's probably not it because they're both wonderful individuals.

[00:01:56] I love all the comic books that they've worked on and they've combined forces for a new Mad Cave title buried long, long ago, which issue one is already out as we record this. I got a peek at issue two and damn, it is so good. So like creepy in a way that I think a lot of horror comics aren't.

[00:02:21] And we're going to talk about it. And we're going to talk about it. But please welcome to the podcast, Anthony Cleveland and Alex Cormack. Anthony, Alex, how are you doing tonight? Great. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Doing great. Good to see you again, man. Yeah. Good. Good seeing you as well. So buried long, long ago.

[00:02:39] I think the thing that struck me the most about this is and I I think I posted this on like a blue sky or somewhere is that like the the overarching thing I think about it is is menacing. And just in a way, because they're like your three main cast members are kind of children.

[00:03:01] It's it's you know how Jesse and is it Rylan and Hattie kind of see the events in their life. You're kind of seeing it through their eyes.

[00:03:12] And I it's so like atmospheric and their mother, you know, is such a such a presence and this kind of like malevolent force that I never know, like how worried I need to be about the children while it's taking place. Um, there's a incredible pacing to it. Alex, you're like the you know, some of the stuff that you've done before.

[00:03:40] And, you know, I you know, I'm I'm a big fan, but I mean, you're facial acting. The expressions on those kids faces, I mean, is it legitimately terrifying, like especially in the second issue, which, you know, if you're listening to this podcast as it comes out, you're going to be able to go, you know, and get the second issue like shortly. It's going to be out like I think tomorrow. This comes out on the Tuesday.

[00:04:10] This will be out on issue Tuesday, June 4th. But yeah, there's there's a scene, you know, because the family, you know, when this takes place, it has an outhouse and one of the kids has to use the outhouse. And like it is that, you know, can my sibling come with me to the bathroom because I'm afraid of the dark, like dialed up to like 20, not 11. In any event, I have I know I have a tendency to talk like way too much. And you guys are the guests on the podcast.

[00:04:38] But I just wanted to kind of get that out of the way first that I thought this this was this. These first two issues are tremendous in like an unbelievable way. So I don't know, Anthony, why don't can you kind of like start in terms of why did you want to tackle this kind of topic and give it this like, I mean, grim. And I mean that in the fairy tale sense and the darkness sense, it kind of give this story this like dark fairy tale treatment.

[00:05:08] Yeah, I grew up in the area. So I went to a museum exhibit and saw the Bell Gunness story there, maybe middle school. And it's a story that doesn't have any answers in the end. So there's a lot of room for imagination to fill in the gaps and what you think everyone that hears a story as an idea of what they think happened to Bell. Real quick, Bell was a serial killer in LaPorte County.

[00:05:34] She put ads in a Chicago newspaper for wealthy men or just men with money to come to her farm. When they showed up, she killed them and buried them in the hog pit. Her house burned down. They found a body in the basement, but they're not sure if it was Bell's or not. So that's kind of, you know, where the imagination takes over for everybody to hear is it. Did she get away? Is she still out? I mean, at the time, was she still out there? And I guess what happened? Yeah.

[00:06:01] And so when the imagination's there and the story's like 125 years old now, I knew about it for 25 years. That's how long I've kind of held on to it. And I think those 25 years I held on to it, it kept changing. But I also, I kept noticing there are like fairy tale parallels that jump into the story. Like the early reporters caught that. They called her Lady Bluebeard. And then I kind of thought about the story from what her kids might experience.

[00:06:28] You know, they were locked in at night while she did whatever she did with the men. And I'm sure, you know, they heard things. They know things. And I thought that would be a good way to approach the story. But for respect to them, not to include them. Explore the idea, but let's dig and make it firmly in fantasy and fairy tale. So that's what Very Long Ago does in like the first issue or the first pages of the issue. It's, you know, telling a fairy tale, which echoes the Bell Gunness story.

[00:06:56] And one of the kids says, that's not how I want to tell it. Let's tell it differently or something along those lines. Right. So it sets it off. The limit, because I did not realize, I was telling you guys before we started recording, like I didn't realize that this was even a little bit based off of a true story. I was not familiar with Bell Gunness. I kind of went in cold to the issue and just thought, oh, this is great. And then doing research for the interview, I, you know, then I kind of dig in and I've

[00:07:24] already read two issues and I want to see like what else might be out there. And then I think it was on the Mad Cave site. They talk about it like based on true events. And I was like, really? And I look up Bell Gunness and this and the anything you read about it is like each detail is like crazier than the last detail. I mean, they just were after the house burned down, they were they were digging up like gunny sacks filled with body parts.

[00:07:52] They pronounced Bell Gunness dead, even though I think the woman, the headless woman's body they found in the burned out house was five inches shorter than her. Right. So I mean, there's just like crazy, crazy details. But there is this element of it. You know, I can see how you made the connection because there is almost this fairy tale urban legend idea of these men answering this ad.

[00:08:21] I mean, there had to be an element, you know, possibly of. Like if like it seem even if they weren't trying to like that, they were you know, if there was a defense of like, oh, I'm doing this to take take take advantage of this mother and her three kids on the farmhouse. And like that was definitely not the scenario.

[00:08:48] Like there's many, many ways that the story, you know, could go in like the fairy tale element of it because nobody knows what her real motivations were other than murder and money. If there was something else to it or something else, you know, behind it. But yeah, it just unreal. Alex, when when you came on board, were you familiar with this this story at all?

[00:09:17] No, no, no, I never heard of it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, my knowledge on true crime is like is is very limited. Like I never like looked up any of the podcasts or like doing research. What I knew was like anybody else from just what you heard around growing up. So I never you know, I'm up in New England. So I never heard of Bill Guinness. And but the way Anthony, you know, he reached out to me, asked if I'd be interested in this book.

[00:09:44] But but I mean, the way he was talking about it, way he was pitching it, that this is a hometown story for him. This is like like he just said, he's been rolling around your head for the last 25 years. And I mean, that's what really got me going on. It was just how I like Anthony wanted to do this. And that was a passion project. And I was like, you know, this is something you care this much about. And you're asking me to jump in. Like, how am I supposed to say no here? This sounds this sounds amazing.

[00:10:13] So let's let's let's do this. And but it's funny. So that senior just started about earlier, the outhouse. Oh, yeah. And issue two. Yeah. So that was the first thing that we tried doing was because we've been kicking this around for the last like five years. And like right. It was like during COVID, Anthony, or I was like right before COVID. Right. Right. Right at the time when it was getting bad. Yeah. Yeah. So. So we had this.

[00:10:40] So Anthony had the scene pretty much the way it is in the book of, you know, the the sisters. One has to go to the bathroom and like that whole dinner scenes before that. Oh, you can get to the bathroom. Um, but, um, and that was and that was great how it was, but how Anthony has it for everybody is about to pick up number two. Um, I mean, there's such a like one, two, three punch at the end of this issue is I was so proud to do it.

[00:11:10] Uh, but it was just like, uh, it really was, it was just like, uh, left, right, left down. So, uh, yeah, get ready for that folks. It's, it's, uh, it's, it's great. Like, yeah, I mean, I'm really impressed, you know, with issue one in particular it because there's, I think horror can be very tough to do. I think there can be like tropes or crutches that artists and writers and like everybody

[00:11:40] relies on, but man, there's just such, such a sense of dread in that first issue. You start with that kind of cold open fairy tale that turns into the kids on the train. You realize like they're reading the book, but from the moment they, they meet their mom, you know, they're there, they arrive on the train and, and mama's waiting for them.

[00:12:06] I mean, there is just such an oppressive mood to the whole thing. I mean, you, you don't ever rush to get to any, like anything gruesome or any type of action. It is like slowly rolled out and it just, it just continues like the intensity I feel like continues, um, to build. And it's just, it really feels like, you know, the two of you and I think, um, Justin Birch lettered right for this.

[00:12:35] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just one of those things, everybody kind of like working together. Uh, you know, Anthony with a story like this, that's about a serial killer that like the real life has all of these wild details about dismembered body parts and finding body parts afterwards. Um, you know, you're doing this fairy tale setting, but was there ever a, um, did, did you like have to deliberately slow everything down?

[00:13:05] Like, I just feel like that you, that, that pacing of it that you got felt like it would have been hard to do. Like there would have been a, Oh, he went away. Oh, Anthony went away. Okay. I'll answer for you. The pacing was a piece of cake and I did it in my sleep. Okay. Oh, awesome. It's amazing. No sweat. My question was too long.

[00:13:29] And Anthony just like that scene in return to the Jedi, where Luke keeps asking questions and Yoda just rolls over like, I'm done. I'm done. I know what he just texted me saying the PC reset. So he'll be right back. All right. All right. Well, we'll get him back. And then I'll ask him my question about the pacing. Um, so Alex, let's you and I talk, you know, more.

[00:13:53] Like, um, I, you, you've drawn so many different like people, characters, you know, uh, but Belle feels like, like, like her own type of like thing. Like I, I, I, like her features are just so fierce. And I've seen a picture online looking up of what like she actually looked like, but you

[00:14:20] have a way of drawing her where she always doesn't quite come into focus. Maybe it's my prescription, but it just, it's, but there's something like very even alarming about how she looks. Was, did you try and model it all for the real person or did like, so yeah. Did you just come up with your own thing? Yeah. So what we did was, um, and with her is probably the closest to the real person that there was

[00:14:50] because, um, like I, because I mean, since these were real people, I, this was kind of a thing I was cautious about. I jumped it in because, you know, every other story I've done is though it'd be made up or it might've been like loosely based off something, but it wasn't right. Well, I was going to get a phone call from relative that this on the other hand was real people that I do were, these were real people. This really happened. Yeah. And, uh, so, uh, so what I did was just kind of separate a little as much as I could,

[00:15:18] um, for my own sake was like a lot of the, uh, most of the characters were kind of, um, Hey, Anthony back, you're back. Um, so a lot of the characters were, I just kind of like, cause Anthony sent me a packet with like newspaper clippings, real photos, the real people and all this. Um, so like the, like the daughters, I kind of just went off on their own, especially the oldest, uh, looks nothing like real, real person. Uh, the younger two a little bit, but it's, you know, different enough.

[00:15:48] Uh, bell. I remember I did a few different versions and, um, uh, the one that we stuck with is pretty her, at least her face, uh, is kind of close to the original person. But, um, as I've said before, the, the biggest difference is I gave her a different haircut and, uh, because the real bell just had it pulled back and I'm like a bun. Um, but, uh, the one we have in the comment, I actually gave her my fifth grade teacher's haircut, which I, I hated this lady.

[00:16:16] So I, as a kid, I was like, you know, one of these days I'll show her, uh, yeah. Go out for recess or whatever. Yep. I'm upset. Um, so yeah, so she had this big, like, you know, fro. And, uh, so I kind of gave, I was like, oh, well, I'll add this in there. And it kind of, with everything else kind of separates it a little bit from like the real tragedies that really haven't. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I think the hair lends itself to it. Like you do a lot.

[00:16:46] Part of that sense of like doom or the, the oppressive nature of it is like when there are just like talking head panels, like there are somewhere you feel like, you know, bell, uh, has this, like she takes up most of a panel and she's at this angle because she's talking to children. Like you feel like she's talking, you know, down at you as you're reading it. Yeah. That was, that was all. Yeah.

[00:17:11] I think if most of them, you're looking up at her and, um, like even there's a shot in their first issue where, um, uh, I won't give away what's going on, but, uh, Jesse walks to the room and bells crouched on the ground, but there's, it's still, I love, even though we're looking down at her, but it's still like, try not to give that, like looking down, try to make her look weak at all. There's like, she's always in control and in power and somebody to be reckoned with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Anthony. Welcome back.

[00:17:41] I said, my quick, my question was too long and you just like became one with the forest and went away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:17] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. firm firmly down. This was a time to try to make something scary. And for me, it's hard to make,

[00:18:42] you know, horror comics scary. You don't have a lot of the same tools as other mediums. But one of the best things we could probably do is make characters that people like. And that's what we try to do with this book is really take our time with them. So you got the scene on the train where they're, you know, joking and being kids pretty much. And then it kind of starts to shift from there when the mother comes. Domestic horror is probably my favorite, like subgenre of

[00:19:10] horror. Like the shining, hereditary things where you're trapped at home and people that are around you that should support you and love you aren't what they, you know, appear to be or what they should be. So that's a big part of this I took from it. Because those are also, you know, really successful scares taken to normal and turning into something terrifying.

[00:19:35] Oh, yeah. I mean, the shining, especially. I hadn't seen I haven't seen hereditary because the trailer looked too scary. So it's good. It's really good. Yeah. Well, and you know what you say that and it instantly made me think of in the first issue, the scene where Jesse kind of yells at, you know, her two siblings and has that moment. And it's it's it it it

[00:20:02] comes out great on the page. And like Alex, it looks awful in a good way. I mean, like she really looks like she she has done something because she is really trying to take care of her her siblings. But she doesn't know how else to get them to understand that it almost feels like there's a moment of it where she's kind of mimicking the things that her mom has told her. And it's terrifying. It's it's not in like, we're going to get you monster

[00:20:29] scary, but like the monsters here in me scary. Like it's a flash of a moment that I just felt worked so well. And as soon as you said that, Anthony, that made a lot of sense. I mean, it was really well done. Yeah. The close up that when she's screaming is something that I think about a lot in my head, just like the eyes even kind of change. It's a really great panel. Yeah. Yes, very, very. It is. It's very well done.

[00:20:57] All right, everybody, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Let's face it. The comics landscape is a mess right now. I'm the editor in chief of a comics journalism outlet, and I can't even keep track of it all. If you are as passionate as I am about indie comics and its creators, you should check out the Lantern Guide. Created on the premise of creating light in the dark, it's going to be the go to resource to keep you up to date on the projects and the creators that you love. Don't take my word for it. I reached out to my

[00:21:23] friend Brian Lovell, Poison Ivy artist and indie comics creator to get his take. Brian, what does The Lantern Project fix? I'm a dude who loves indie comics. And I know personally, like I get very frustrated when something shows up in my social media timeline or something like that. And I feel like I can't keep track of everything. So really, The Lantern Project was born out of that. It was an opportunity for me as a reader to kind of like have a place to want to consolidate all the

[00:21:53] stuff that I wanted to read. All the cool projects from cool creators that seemed interesting and kind of unique to like something that I would like, which is really not super represented everywhere else, but it's all over the indies. Having a spot to go to that felt like it consolidated a lot of those audiences and a lot of those places where I couldn't just get drowned out in the feed of social media seemed really valuable to me. What's the ultimate goal? It's really our hope with this

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[00:22:49] working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing. Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge. If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to

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[00:23:41] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get five dollars off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. What do you think that has draws you to like domestic horror? Like why out of all the

[00:24:05] different types of you know sub-genres of horror is that is it the idea of something familiar becoming terrifying or is there something else to it? Yeah it's relatable it's tangible it's um I mean think about a bad time you had at your house and then amplify that to however far you need to go. I mean it's uh uh I mean I think just the idea of taking what's safe and

[00:24:30] what's secure and then flipping that entirely away um is a good way to make some scares come out for sure. I mean just to explore that too you know take away what's safe um how would you react kind of thing. I think that's a dark part of our imagination we don't like to go. I think there's a lot of good ideas there. I mean there's there's cosmic horror and everything that's beyond but I think sometimes

[00:24:55] what's in front of us gets missed. Um there's just a lot of to mine there for ideas and horror. Yeah and especially with a story like this where you know you kind of set it up in the first issue where uh you know Jesse is the protector of her siblings um but also kind of has to mine them but but also is old enough that she definitely knows more you know in this story uh more of what is

[00:25:24] actually going on um and it like there's that added element you know which is why it's so terrifying when she yells at her siblings but like seeing that play out um and we kind of see more of it in terms of issue two with her standing up for her siblings or I really not standing up more so

[00:25:46] taking the blame. I don't think anybody's standing up to Belle but um but uh um yeah it's it's very I mean it's it's very well done. Um Alex with all the different things that that you've done and I know you're you know as you talked about a little bit earlier you're kind of mindful of you know the

[00:26:08] the angles and the paneling and making sure that Belle never looks weak and imposing um is it difficult to kind of get the characters like body language right whenever like Belle is in a scene especially because we see in issue one and issue two where there are these other men where we know what the fate of it is and we we have both have seen you know um I guess her husband in in issue one

[00:26:35] and then the man that comes in in issue two is definitely different personality wise seems like he has his own plan and agenda um you know when you get something like that in the script like how do you approach like kind of getting that nuance of Belle kind of playing a role but also having this ulterior motive and playing off against somebody else who might have the same

[00:26:59] in terms of the her next victim? Well so much that I mean uh I gotta give Anthony credit because um I mean so much that so much that characterization is in the script how these guys are acting how they're like just like especially the second they got the second issue just seems like such a flea scumbag type of like yeah like just just just a punk um whereas I mean the first one the guy's you know he seems like a sweetheart he's probably a nice guy he's you know that type

[00:27:28] that would help you across uh elbow lady across the street you know and um but um you know I so I mean I can get the nitty gritty of it like what I'll do is um uh after doing like layouts and kind of just kind of you know putting it all together um uh what I'll do is I'll set up my wife's uh computer and with uh the photo booth uh hit record on like a video and then like I'll act out each page

[00:27:55] so I'll get up and I'll I'll act like the guy so I'll be like uh like yeah shame like whatever he's doing I don't know why he's I don't think he's doing that but that's issue five or whatever but but but I'll get up and I'll like act out the mannerisms of like how someone like all right if I was sewing this line this is how I would say this is how I would say trying to remember what I would be like as a kid talking to like an authority figure uh this is how I would talk if I was talking

[00:28:23] to one of my own kids like you know something like that and um it's just good old-fashioned just act it out then I'll go back I'll see what I've done I kind of see the poses that I've done and um along going along with the layouts and then I'll draw from that and uh um and yeah that's it's basically beyond the scenes of what I do every day and uh and no we like seeing how this is because most time I'm like in my pajamas or whatever they're just uh

[00:28:51] whatever like uh I just woke up and I'm wearing like a t-shirt and shorts and just like all right let's do this great there's I there's the panel one where's my coffee and like music playing in the background like all right let's try this out oh no I I love I love hearing how it's done you know I'm not an artist and I I you know but love comics and love seeing and hearing how they come together uh you know everyone has their kind of I guess uh a unique approach so yeah you know I'm not gonna

[00:29:21] hire any actors so I might as well do it myself right right right so we know if we know if you're hacked and all these videos then all these videos start appearing oh yeah yeah Alex is Alex in his pajamas and all these strange poses that he's that could be a fun game you could just release a video and we have to guess which comic it's from yeah right my hair looks like this then yeah

[00:29:48] and we know if you have like a worn big mop like a wig we'll know that's very very long maybe clown wig a big curly right right if you look like you're cold or like rhodobones uh oh sure yeah no I I got that hat in the other room yeah that's that's uh that has my it is one of my winter hats yeah but like uh I mean I'll have my uh all my son come in and be like all right dude you guys sit here and I'm gonna be this and and look at me and be like er and like okay

[00:30:15] great I know I know that thing or I'll have my wife come in and you know it tries them nuts but like I'm like honey no you gotta stand right here put your hand up not like that you gotta like and she's like I'm I'm in the middle of something I got my own life I'm like I'm sorry I'm just two seconds um Anthony you had said that you thought about this story for you know I think decades that you've been around a long time since you had first heard of this um you know this

[00:30:44] I guess somewhat prolific uh midwestern serial killer um had you ever like was it just the idea had you ever thought about trying this like previously like what was the from the I guess the the beginning of the idea that you had like oh this type of story could work to when you sit down and start scripting like what type of time period was that and like had the idea for the story changed

[00:31:10] in your head before you actually started to getting it out on paper yeah a lot of different ways um I mean the first time I heard the story I didn't really get all the details it was my dad was telling me it while I'm just staring at the bell gunness mannequin getting completely creeped out um so from then it was like a creepypasta I posted online just a bunch of bits and pieces of truth

[00:31:37] and like made up whatever just to creep other kids out and then from then it was like uh I think I tried to do a screenplay um to see where that went and just the reaction from people was very interesting it was like because it's it's very familiar story you know it's a black widow story it's uh widow killing for money taking the money and then I guess getting away in the end and think that was too familiar for a lot of readers um okay I had it passed around

[00:32:06] I'm like okay so you need a different angle or different way to tell the story you know uh to make it less obvious I think that's where the idea of like it needs to the perspective needs to change and I think the kids was the most obvious way to go for me on that but yeah I mean I've tried to tell it like straight I tried to do a documentary uh the screenplay which was kind of like a docu-series

[00:32:30] kind of thing okay um but yeah I think once I was like well if we change perspective you kind of change what you can show um you know a little bit at a time instead of being forward that she's you know killing for money and then from then it just kind of came together to this comic and they you know it came to the comic because it's a very experimental story it's true crime and fairy tale that's a tough

[00:32:57] combo to do and comics is just a very forgiving storytelling medium you can probably get away with more here than you can anywhere else um so that's why we kind of rolled with uh the comic format here oh yeah that that's that's interesting to think that like uh comics is a forgiving medium that you could to get away with stuff I I I was thinking it of thinking about it more along the lines that

[00:33:25] it you know you can because of the mix of new narrative and visual story storytelling or in terms of you know the the dialogue or captions and then having that picture go with it you have a little more you know control over how the reader experiences the story but but you know posing it as it's more forgiving I like I like that idea too in terms of the stuff that you can do

[00:33:52] I think people are just used to experimentation with comics especially indie comics um you know they've got a flaming carrot you've got I mean the first comic book the first comic book not the first comic book but like superman began with his underwear on the outside of his pants and that was totally fine it's very forgiving readers don't you know beat up details too often

[00:34:19] here I think because there's just it's it's really spurs your imagination you can get lost in it very easily uh with this medium and it's like very open like you're only limited by what your imagination is or you guys you're drawing at your skill at the time uh yeah yeah um I also wanted to I know I've mentioned Justin's name before because I I'm a big fan of uh Justin's lettering um but especially in

[00:34:43] the second issue and to talk we've talked about that outhouse scene but especially the the dialogue that happens and you know the the the sounds or if I come out of the the outhouse I mean it it it's it's so good like it's one of those things like everything just really comes together and it really

[00:35:07] you know Alex you you put it perfectly it is like a one two three punch oh yeah leading to the end of uh of that of that second issue um one of the things I I thought was uh interesting um you know because when you hear of a story like this and you know Anthony said you think the first idea like might have been a screenplay and it's like oh yeah this definitely seems like the type of story that somebody would turn into like a movie and I was on uh wikipedia looking at some of the the the ways that

[00:35:35] this story has been changed or adapted my favorite a a 2004 film called method about a film within a film the cast and crew are in Romania to make a film about serial killer uh bell gunness and uh the main character uh Elizabeth Hurley not my first choice for a movie about bell gunness uh I don't

[00:36:00] think they were going for um historical accuracy but you know it's Hollywood yeah it that's a very common thing with the retellings of this story is like the old pulp art is like she's always you know blind uh just showing it's just like okay yeah that's uh yeah not quite that quite didn't go that rude

[00:36:23] it was uh no yeah yeah no yeah I did I did look at the uh uh Hurley probably yeah um and so uh oh I I really like um Alex I really like your cover uh for issue one as well is is very good and I think that there's a variant cover that was done by uh Colleen Doran as well yeah

[00:36:52] she won that's awesome yeah so yeah we were uh we were super excited when uh when we first heard about that and all that that's she is great yeah yeah both look really good um and so how many issues is is this going to be overall uh it's five right yep five issues uh done in September I think I'm sure

[00:37:17] yeah yeah that I mean that's the thing right now like it's for our sake I think the comic's done it's it's everything's drawn uh everything's lettered it's it's ready to rock so but yes it's just now it's coming out so so you don't have to worry about the delays on our part you don't have to worry about me like you know spilling coffee on all the pages and I have to redo everything you know so uh but yeah no it's ready to rock yeah yeah I I'm just I'm I thought it was great first issue was awesome

[00:37:47] and I'm so excited I I one of the things I love about doing this when somebody's like hey do you want to see a sneak peek of this like you you know I'm like yeah yeah please and you know and that and that's the thing with the series too and um it's because the first issue is great second issue like it's got one of my favorite endings uh third issue I mean it's just every issue is my favorite issue

[00:38:13] yeah and like um because it's I'm like oh no like number three is my favorite then I did number four I'm like all right number four I really dig this and this part's really cool and all and then number five like oh it's how it ends so yeah it's one of those like each issue builds up and up and up so um yeah it's one of those there's no duds it's uh as is uh as what's their faces once I've said it's

[00:38:36] all killer no filler yeah I'm 41 yeah yeah every issue is something different too it's uh yeah whoo gets there oh I I I yeah the way don't you see the third one yeah I I yeah I know I I can't wait um so so Anthony was this when you kind of I guess did you pitch this and then like to Alex like had were you like wanting to work with him because was this the first time the two of you have ever worked

[00:39:05] together yeah I mean yeah kind of okay yeah for the first book we've had come out together yeah okay yeah that's that's the way to put it um yeah yeah but it's only I approached him on twitter uh asked if he was interested and said yes and we wouldn't you know we we tried we tried we tried for you know like I said five years the

[00:39:31] very close with four different publishers kicking around oh wow four pages yeah yeah three different publishers lots of maybes lots of ghosting yeah a lot of bringing us along and then uh something came up oh wow yeah well it's a real close call so you're like okay we got it let's go and yeah I mean I well I'm glad mad cave you know you found a home yeah absolutely yeah with mad cave um

[00:39:57] I mean I guess I could think even though the like true crime is it has been big for a number of years now especially in like the the podcast but I you know I guess the idea of like a historical true crime serial killer dark fairy tale and when you say it it's like oh what what is that like what is that going to be like is that kind of like a tough sell but like then you see the first issue and

[00:40:24] it's like I don't I can't think of something that I would compare this to and see for me as a reader of a lot of comics I like that you know I I like that's what I one of the things I like about comics there's something on the shelf for for anybody I can yeah five friends in who have never read any comics before and you know and say what do you like and and find something like I I can't think of oh you know when

[00:40:51] they do very long long ago is like this meets this like I can't even I can't really even come up with a a good one right now and that's what I like about it I can't think of anything to compare it to it feels like it's very much you know its own thing and um you know I feel like Alex is kind of like the perfect person for this with the other work that he's done Anthony you always do a really great job of like working well with the different artists that you've worked with whether or not

[00:41:19] you know it's the the circus shows end yeah you know whether or stargazer or you know charred remains and now this not not you know in terms of the artists you work with if you if you put issues side by side by side none of that stuff looks like anything you know like anything else um it's just it's really kind of just uh an incredible synthesis of the both of yours and Justin's you know talents yeah

[00:41:48] I don't know if there's a question there I'm just talking so we're just no I mean I'll take that I mean that's uh with all yeah with all of them it's like I I the script is generally pretty loose and I try not to make it too loose that anyone's gonna be lost but it's after I pass it off I'm I'm mostly done there's like very few things like I might jump in and suggest but typically it's like story continuity yeah um things like that you know we you know we need to draw this in because it's important later

[00:42:17] kind of thing mm-hmm but above that like I want to get the heck out of there I don't want to be in anybody's way oh yeah okay I think when you do that then I think you get the best stuff um from you know your artist yeah well I mean I I just think that I can't wait to see the rest of this and I uh because I just really feel like there's nothing else you know quite like this story being being told

[00:42:43] this way so you don't really see you know chill I mean children as main characters who are not just used for like fodder or something else or something like bad to happen in in horror right it feels like these kids kind of have some agency which I also like about it which also kind of makes it a little more terrifying because when you have characters like that that you've given agency to you start to care

[00:43:11] about it makes it even worse if something bad does you know happen to them right so uh yeah right well very well done so yeah I mean that was a the biggest goal off the gate was to make these girls likable um make us care about them and like that was what I struggled with the most trying to get the dang book going it was I didn't know what personalities to put into uh these three girls and then I kind of

[00:43:41] realized they're all the same ages as my kids so I'm like all right I'll just just put my kids in there and that's all three of them right there you know well it works yeah I mean that you know that personality dynamic works I mean you know I have I have two kids whether or not it's your own kids or whether or not it's like kids you remember growing up who there were more than like two or three siblings

[00:44:05] you kind of get a sense of how siblings work you know in terms of the the birth order and in terms of those different personalities so there there might be some variations but there I think there is some truth to that you know oldest child middle child youngest child thing and um you know that's probably one of the reasons that their relationship feels you know two issues in does feel you know authentic

[00:44:32] yeah yeah for sure and so um as we uh as you know after this like this is all done and it'll be coming out um is there anything else that you guys have in the works that you want to mention to listeners now nothing cool nothing cool everybody you're working with just went to like god

[00:45:08] how about you alex yeah i got uh there's the cool ones okay yeah so let's see i get a few projects coming out um um oh the ones i can talk about so i have a two-part uh two issue uh like mini series called six shots coming out with uh uh my buddies at uh bliss on tap which is a small publishing company and um

[00:45:34] that'll be coming out um sometime soon still covering the second issue of that uh but uh and then some other stuff coming out but um uh still the works in that so i can't i can't tell you what that is but i can show you uh one thing that uh i i realized this is sitting on my desk that anthony sent me uh as a separation area where's the camera yeah so as a as a gift for when the series

[00:46:00] ended anthony sent me this which is like real life dirt from the bell guinness uh farm oh no yeah and um so i was like oh man and uh my wife saw this and she's like get that out of my house right now you might i'm like no i'm there you know i'm putting this right here look alex i don't i don't want to alarm you but as somebody who has watched all 15 seasons of supernatural that could be

[00:46:23] cursed i'm sure you know just i think you need a salt circle around you for ghosts i love it if once you said that the table breaks a chair falls over something um yeah yeah i'll put like a little uh hocus pocus uh yeah i guess who am i fooling on you know anthony i think that's no like all jokes

[00:46:48] aside i i really think that's that's pretty cool like to have something like that you know to kind of commemorate the ends of the series that's yeah i mean i've been to that property so the house burnt down the foundation's still there they built a new house on top of that foundation so when i was able to go to the property i asked the owners like can i go in the basement so i actually

[00:47:12] got to go into the basement where she probably dismembered and processed all those men that was something because those walls are still there yeah um wait they they is that where the you said at some point about a museum is that where the museum is or like there are people actually living there like that's their home a family lives there yeah yeah oh my gosh they're still finding things there they

[00:47:36] they found no thank you no thank you old hog bones or and uh the bricks from the house are still there they had them lined around the uh fireplace and then uh just odd things because a lot of people came when they found the bodies it became like a tourist spot so a lot of people came and trampled the grounds ruined the crime scene and i think a lot of them left a lot of weird stuff behind

[00:47:59] so there's stuff there um that they're just digging up they did a dirt track or a dirt bike track and so while they were doing that they uncovered a lot of stuff not like oh my god like remains or anything like that but like hog bones like yeah organized rubber teeth um odd things like that oh wow rubber teeth yeah yeah like uh i don't know someone must have dropped them when they were visiting some time ago

[00:48:26] yeah you know you know that you're just how you do i mean you definitely have to disclose that in like a seller's disclosure right like this this house yeah you hope all right oh and as a real killer i think you got to disclose that um well uh guys i thank you so much for for coming on the podcast and

[00:48:51] being able to to talk tonight and joke around a little bit uh i i think very long long ago is is awesome i it is so creepy and like really terrifying um in a way that i don't think the comic has been since i mean it it probably i don't think i felt the way reading a comic book since the first time i i read witches by scott snyder and jock i so i don't think i have read a comic that kind of made me as uneasy as

[00:49:19] witches did since i've read buried long long ago so um i you know i think it's fantastic listeners you definitely got to go and get issue one uh if you're listening to this when the episode comes out issue two will be out june 4th it's a five issue series for mad cave it's anthony cleveland alex cormack and uh justin birch and um i it's get it let's talk about it it's seriously it's

[00:49:46] some of the the most uh like terrifying and oppressive comic i i think i've read so um anthony and alex but thank you coming on the podcast talking to me about it i really appreciate it thanks so much so much that's amazing yeah thank you all right and listeners uh shout out to my brother bobby the cryptic creator corner's number one misdedicated fan bobby listens to all my episodes and i say this every episode because bobby does listen and he likes when i say his name so we do that for

[00:50:10] him um bobby and so uh hopefully i'll be i'll be back with more episodes um i i tomorrow i i have my first ever oral argument in the delaware supreme court so uh after you know uh if if you see me in future episodes and i'm really sad because it didn't go well um but we'll we'll see no it's a real it's a it's a fun issue it's a fun it's a fun thing it's uh it's nice that i still get to discover stuff

[00:50:39] after being an attorney for almost 20 years and i haven't argued before the delaware supreme court so as we record this that'll be uh that'll be tomorrow um so yeah that'll be fun too but listeners uh let me know what your list you're reading let's talk about some more comics uh thank you very much for listening byron wants me to remind you to rate and review and um yeah thanks a lot this is byron o'neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book yeti we hope you've

[00:51:06] enjoyed this episode of our podcast please rate review subscribe all that good stuff it lets us know how we're doing and more importantly how we can improve thanks for listening