Christian Ward Interview: Two-Face

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:10] I love comic books.

[00:00:11] Hey children of the algorithm, I wanted to tell you about another great comics related podcast. Our friends Dan, Dwayne, and Sienna with Comics Over Time have a great show that you should definitely check out.

[00:00:21] Dan has been a Comic Book Yeti contributor since before I was around and the show delves deep into comics history, analyzing it from the wider cultural landscape at the time.

[00:00:30] I learned a lot just listening in and they are keeping it fresh too with Sienna reporting in about the current Marvel offerings.

[00:00:36] I love seeing the next generation excited about comics and it's cool to see a family participating in comics journalism together.

[00:00:42] This season they are focused on the history of everyone's favorite Hell's Kitchen vigilante daredevil.

[00:00:47] It's a fantastic show that you're going to want to add to your rotation. You can find them at Comics Over Time on your favorite podcasting platform or at their website, comicsovertime.podbean.com.

[00:01:00] I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[00:01:02] He's a daredevil, Ned!

[00:01:05] Y'all, Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again!

[00:01:08] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad.

[00:01:16] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing.

[00:01:23] Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps?

[00:01:26] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess, question mark?

[00:01:31] It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge. If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive.

[00:01:40] Allowing you to build, play and export animated maps including in-person Fog of War capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture.

[00:01:53] Now I'm set to easily build high-res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign.

[00:02:00] That's a win every day in my book.

[00:02:02] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off.

[00:02:08] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show.

[00:02:13] I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:02:17] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner.

[00:02:21] I'm one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparro, and I have a guest that I'm very excited to talk to today.

[00:02:28] It is a multi-Eisner winning artist and writer.

[00:02:34] You may know their work from Invisible Kingdom, Odyssey co-created with Matt Kine.

[00:02:40] I'm sorry, Invisible Kingdom co-created with G. Willow Wilson.

[00:02:43] They were the artist on Black Bolt, Bloodstained Teeth, Batman City of Madness, Aquaman Andromeda,

[00:02:50] and a series that people don't talk about enough that I really love with Sammy Cavella, Machine Gun Wizard.

[00:02:56] Oh!

[00:02:56] Which was, I loved it.

[00:02:58] But please, please welcome to the podcast, Christian Ward. Christian.

[00:03:03] Thank you.

[00:03:04] Jimmy, you've started this podcast off well.

[00:03:07] I'm now in a very good mood.

[00:03:09] Oh, great.

[00:03:10] You know what you're doing.

[00:03:13] Well, first off, I'm a big fan of your artwork.

[00:03:17] I thought, I didn't, I don't know if I, um, uh, or I, uh, with Batman City of Madness, that's what I was going to say.

[00:03:27] I felt like you were kind of the perfect person for that, to kind of not recreate, you know, like, like Arkham Asylum and those types of things.

[00:03:40] But you, you have a very distinct style.

[00:03:42] There are certain artists out there.

[00:03:44] You are one of them.

[00:03:45] When you see a cover, um, you know that it's your work.

[00:03:50] Like, you have a very distinct style and, and signature.

[00:03:54] Um, I was a big fan of, uh, the Casper Wingard and Dan Waters Homesick Pilot series.

[00:04:00] And I think you did a couple of covers from them.

[00:04:02] I had, I had issue two, uh, with your variant cover.

[00:04:06] I absolutely loved it.

[00:04:08] Um, you know, but in terms of you're not just an artist, you're also a writer and I'm a big fan of Sammy Cavella's work.

[00:04:15] A lot of the stuff he's done, the work he did with like Lonnie Nadler and Zach Thompson, um, in, uh, Undone in Blood.

[00:04:22] I think I got that right.

[00:04:24] Oh yeah.

[00:04:25] And, uh, Ryan K. Lindsay, Everfrost.

[00:04:27] He, he was the artist on that.

[00:04:29] I really liked.

[00:04:29] So, uh, and, and I thought Tommy gun wizards, it was a four issue series.

[00:04:35] You can correct me if I'm wrong from dark horse.

[00:04:37] It was kind of Elliot Ness and the untouchables basically, uh, you know, going after Al Capone.

[00:04:44] But in, instead of kind of typical mob stuff from the thirties, you know, racketeering, bootlegging, um, they were selling lick.

[00:04:54] If I remember correctly, which was kind of like, it gave you powers.

[00:04:59] And so it was this great mix of 1930, late twenties, early thirties, like mob stuff with this kind of like sorcery, uh, you know, wizard stuff to it.

[00:05:12] Uh, great title to machine gun wizards.

[00:05:15] I, and I, I just thought, man, four issues, but I just thought it was so fun.

[00:05:21] So inventive.

[00:05:22] I mean, we've seen gangster stuff.

[00:05:25] We've seen wizard stuff.

[00:05:26] I don't think I ever saw like quite in that.

[00:05:29] Like realm.

[00:05:31] And, um, I mean, Elliot Ness is such a fun character, you know, a person in character to kind of like play with and Al Capone.

[00:05:41] It was just, um, you know, I think it came out in like 2019 and I just, I, I, I loved it.

[00:05:50] It was one of those things that it just, I was just like, this is great.

[00:05:53] Uh, yeah.

[00:05:54] So, so that was, I think my first real exposure to, um, you know, your writing and, uh, yeah, I've, I've, I've, I've, you know, picked up things and read things and, and, and checked your stuff out, you know, since then the past few years.

[00:06:10] So, um, again, was, was super excited to see that you were doing Batman city of madness.

[00:06:14] Um, I paired with Rom V on Aquaman andromeda, which was a, I think a black label book.

[00:06:22] Uh, yeah.

[00:06:24] And so now all of this has led to, you are the writer for the first ever solo two face series.

[00:06:35] Issue one is coming out December 4th.

[00:06:38] I think like not that long from when we're recording this.

[00:06:41] So I don't know.

[00:06:42] That was like a listeners are probably sick of hearing from me.

[00:06:44] They want it.

[00:06:45] They want to hear from you.

[00:06:45] That was a long free.

[00:06:47] Keep going.

[00:06:48] Keep going.

[00:06:49] I'm loving it.

[00:06:50] Um, I guess I kind of want to start with, uh, your work for DC since that's kind of our focus for my, my DC in December.

[00:06:58] Um, how did you first kind of like, you know, get approached?

[00:07:02] Had you done smaller things for them before?

[00:07:05] Like what kind of led up to city of madness?

[00:07:08] I mean, I think kind of like I've got quite, uh, um, I think one thing that gives me an advantage in regards to working with lots of different publishers and editors is, um, I'm quite well known as a cover artist.

[00:07:22] Um, so even though I, you know, I do series, um, I more than anything, I probably do covers.

[00:07:28] Um, so I've worked with pretty much every, you know, publisher there is in comics and I've done a cover for them.

[00:07:37] And, you know, and you, when you do covers for, for any editor, it's all about, you know, all the time you, you know, you might be getting them out of trouble or you might be kind of like, you know, you certainly, you're not getting them into trouble by getting a kind of like a comic, a comic cover in on time.

[00:07:52] Cause I've got to get solicits. So it's a really good way. Oh, it's been a really good way. Not that it's been conscious, but over the last sort of like 15 years, uh, getting kind of editors, good books.

[00:08:06] You know, I'm the guy that they can rely on and I can get a cover to them when they need it. Um, I can hit my deadlines. You know, if an editor emails me and they need a cover the next day or even the day, I'm the guy that can do that.

[00:08:20] So it kind of like puts you in, in, in a good relationship with editors. Uh, and it makes, it kind of makes it easier for them to go, Oh, Chris is the guy that he won't let us down. And, you know, he's a steady hand.

[00:08:35] Okay.

[00:08:35] So I think, I think that's one benefit. Uh, and then from that, um, it was James Tinian kind of, well, actually, no, it wasn't very first DC short story I did was for, uh, Rob Williams on a suicide squad.

[00:08:50] Back, back, back in the gym, the new 52. So I did an Enchantress short, uh, that was ages ago. That was, that was probably nine years, nine years ago. Um, I did that. That was, and then it went quite ages. Uh, and then James Tinian, me and James became friends and, um, I did a, a swamp thing short with him.

[00:09:13] And again, you know, you're showing that you can hit a deadline and, you know, it's all about, you know, you want to get on with people and, and have a rapport and, and be excited about what you're doing. You know, if you work with people and they're like, you know, you don't really, you don't want to get very far.

[00:09:31] Nobody, nobody wants that. Was that during, during Tinian's Justice League dark run?

[00:09:36] No, he, um, he was doing Batman at the time.

[00:09:39] Oh, okay.

[00:09:40] It was, it was, I believe it was some, it was a one shot, a swamp thing, one shot with lots of different artists in it.

[00:09:47] And, uh, I've always wanted to do swamp thing.

[00:09:50] And, uh, and, and I, uh, like to this day, it still makes me laugh because he wrote me a brilliant story.

[00:09:57] James, uh, but swamp thing does not appear.

[00:10:00] So I'm like reading the script going, Oh, Oh, it's really good.

[00:10:03] James.

[00:10:04] Where's, uh, where's swamp thing?

[00:10:07] He's on it.

[00:10:08] Uh, but still, it was really good.

[00:10:10] Um, and, uh, yes, that, uh, that was the first.

[00:10:13] And then, and then I did, um, uh, and then I think the next thing I did is I pitched a short story that appeared.

[00:10:23] I forget where it was.

[00:10:25] It was a five page short story.

[00:10:28] Um, urban legends.

[00:10:31] That was it.

[00:10:31] I did Batman urban legends and it was a five page short story that I wrote and drew.

[00:10:35] So that was the first thing that I wrote and drew for DC.

[00:10:38] Um, apart from a vertigo, I did a vertigo short back in the day.

[00:10:42] Um, but that was the first kind of like DC superhero type stuff that I wrote and drew.

[00:10:49] And, uh, yeah, then, um, I got an email about, uh, partnering with, with Ram.

[00:10:54] Uh, and I've known Ram for years.

[00:10:57] Um, like before Ram was even in the industry, like I met Ram at a comic convention in London

[00:11:01] back when I used to live in London.

[00:11:03] So I knew Ram and obviously his rise was spectacular and, uh, incredible writer.

[00:11:10] And he had a really interesting take on Aquaman, um, a character who I admit I had no real interest

[00:11:17] in.

[00:11:18] Um, but I did have an interest in working with Ram and I had an interest in, in, in his

[00:11:23] take on the character.

[00:11:24] And so that was, you know, that really was kind of like my first foot in the door of doing

[00:11:28] like a long form story there.

[00:11:30] Um, and then I got on so well with Matt Levine and Chris Conroy, who were the editors of

[00:11:37] Black Label.

[00:11:38] And when we finished, we'd all enjoyed working together so much that Chris Conroy was, you

[00:11:44] know, what's next.

[00:11:45] And he'd seen me posting the, uh, I posted a kind of like an image of, uh, Cthulhu, like

[00:11:50] Batman, who was Batman below.

[00:11:53] Um, yeah, I'm, I'm very familiar.

[00:11:55] I remember when you posted that.

[00:11:57] And it blew up.

[00:11:59] Uh, and, uh, and Chris was, was very, he used to go, look, is there a story?

[00:12:05] And because I'm obsessive, there was, um, and I was able to sort of pitch him within the

[00:12:10] hour with the full breakdown of what the story was.

[00:12:14] Um, and you know, and it just happened.

[00:12:18] Um, wow.

[00:12:19] And, and then, you know, lifelong dream.

[00:12:23] I'm, I mean, it's just incredible, incredible.

[00:12:26] Always wanted to do Batman.

[00:12:27] As you can see, I am surrounded by him, you know, little there and there.

[00:12:32] And, you know, he's, um, you know, Gotham is the best.

[00:12:36] I mean, I wouldn't want to live there, but it's the best.

[00:12:39] Uh, and in terms of your love of, you know, Batman, you said lifelong dream to get to do

[00:12:45] that, that character.

[00:12:46] Um, and especially for something like city of madness.

[00:12:49] Cause you know, um, you know, there's a lot of talk of in continuity or out, which I,

[00:12:55] that's not something that I'm overly concerned myself with.

[00:12:58] Like I want a good story.

[00:13:00] If you, you, you put something outside of continuity, I don't, I mean, I read things out

[00:13:03] of order.

[00:13:04] I just want, you know, whatever.

[00:13:05] But, um, so when you, uh, was it more, was there any like artists that you look to before

[00:13:14] in terms of like, there's been so many like quintessential Batman artists?

[00:13:18] Like, is it difficult when you're tackling something like that, that put your stamp on

[00:13:23] it?

[00:13:24] Are you trying to separate yourself from what others have done before?

[00:13:27] Or are you just focusing on like, this is how I draw and this is how I'm doing it.

[00:13:32] I mean, it's interesting.

[00:13:33] I mean, it's a little bit of both because city of madness was very much a tribute and

[00:13:39] a love letter to Batman.

[00:13:40] And actually, if you go through it, there's, there's, there's, there's a few conscious,

[00:13:46] um, moments in it where I am kind of like referencing other artists.

[00:13:50] Now there's the obvious one is Dave McKean.

[00:13:53] You know, when, when, when Batman goes into Arkham Asylum and he's referencing the night

[00:13:59] I got stuck in Arkham.

[00:14:00] And I, I, I use the motifs that are very Dave McKean like, and I twist, I change the

[00:14:07] art to become a little bit more like Dave McKean.

[00:14:10] There's a page where, and again, in issue one, where Batman's kind of like swinging for

[00:14:16] the night and the light is shining up and casting a kind of the, the, the kind of a bad

[00:14:22] symbol of sorts behind him.

[00:14:24] But that's a reference to Jock's One Dark Knight, a more recent Batman, because, you know,

[00:14:29] Jock is such a seminal artist in Batman.

[00:14:31] So that's a, I, I, I know that I had to him.

[00:14:34] You know, there's a scene where, um, Batman's kind of breaking fingers of, uh, always breaking

[00:14:42] the wrist of one of, uh, two faces, man, man.

[00:14:45] And he's kind of huddled over.

[00:14:47] That's a reference to Frank Miller from Dark Knight Returns.

[00:14:50] You know, there's lots of little bits in it where I was just like, okay, this is, these

[00:14:54] are my favorite Batman artists.

[00:14:56] And this is me aping them, you know, a reference to them.

[00:14:59] And there's this, you know, the scene at the end where he's kind of, um, in the, again,

[00:15:03] the end of the first issue when Batman's kind of sort of leaping for the night and he's almost

[00:15:08] a silhouette.

[00:15:09] That's a reference to one of the first Batman images that's often used in his kind of like

[00:15:15] iconography.

[00:15:16] Um, so it's, there were conscious decisions to kind of like ape artists in City of Badness,

[00:15:24] but also when I'm just doing my thing to be an artist and to kind of like have any

[00:15:31] sorts of success, you have to sort of step out on a ledge and just do your own thing.

[00:15:37] You know, it's really a case of just being patient and waiting for the world, hopefully

[00:15:43] to catch up with you and decide that what you do is something that they like.

[00:15:47] Um, and you have to just have confidence that what you're doing is right.

[00:15:52] And, you know, and I've been fortunate now, I've, I've been doing this now for 15 years

[00:15:56] or just over 15 years, about 18 now.

[00:15:59] Um, and I've accrued fans and editors won't work with me and my books review well.

[00:16:05] And so that tells me that people like my work.

[00:16:08] And so that gives me confidence to go, I just, I'll just be me.

[00:16:12] I'll just do me.

[00:16:13] Um, because, you know, I'm not Jim Lee, you know, I can't draw like Jim Lee and do the

[00:16:19] typical superhero Batman stuff.

[00:16:22] Um, you know, I do me.

[00:16:25] And I think that's, what's really exciting about a character like Batman, that he is so

[00:16:32] flexible that you can have, you know, an artist like Jim Lee who, you know, and Dan

[00:16:38] Morton Mauler who does like the best superhero stuff.

[00:16:42] Dan's work is pretty, pretty impeccable.

[00:16:44] He's just like, in my mind, the best superhero artist working today, but also, you know, Chris

[00:16:52] Samney, uh, Frank Quietly, you know, you can have these very disparate artists.

[00:16:57] Um, and then, and then you can have people like me who are a little bit more experimental,

[00:17:03] a little bit more painting, a little bit more abstract, you know, you know, Dave McKean

[00:17:08] and Bill Sinkovich.

[00:17:09] Um, and that's really cool to have a character who's that, you know, you can do fluid that

[00:17:16] you can do that many different things with him.

[00:17:18] You know, you only need to look at like other media, you know, I mean, you've got Lego Batman

[00:17:22] sitting alongside the Batman.

[00:17:25] I mean, they couldn't be more different.

[00:17:27] But both of them are equally Batman.

[00:17:30] I mean, I can't think of another character who's as flexible as that.

[00:17:34] And it's one of the reasons why I love him so much, because if I'm in the mood for like

[00:17:38] a noir-y kind of like pulpy thing, I can have it.

[00:17:42] If I'm in the mood for a serial killer thriller, I can have it.

[00:17:45] If I'm in the mood for something with tentacles, I can have it, you know, and who else can, what

[00:17:51] other character can give you that?

[00:17:53] Yeah.

[00:17:53] And even not just throughout the history of Batman.

[00:17:56] I mean, that's an interesting point.

[00:17:57] I was just while you're saying that, I thought about, you know, just going to your local comic

[00:18:02] shop and seeing what's on the shelves, you know, with your city of madness.

[00:18:06] And just in the past few years, you've gotten to see not just the typical superhero take on

[00:18:13] Batman, but also things like Raphael Grandpa's, you know, take on Batman and, you know, with your take on Batman.

[00:18:22] And, you know, Liam Sharp did, you know, I think, what was it with Garth?

[00:18:27] That is the title.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:29] Did his take on Batman.

[00:18:30] Batman.

[00:18:31] There's such different styles, but you're right.

[00:18:34] It's all Batman.

[00:18:36] And it all sits on that shelf together.

[00:18:38] That's a good point.

[00:18:40] Yeah.

[00:18:42] I mean, like, you know, even like kind of like, you know, even like the animated series, you know, you can, it's, it's, I just, I've always loved him.

[00:18:53] And he's a buffet and you can go to him and you can like really cherry pick different flavors and it's still him.

[00:19:04] And it's wonderful.

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:06] And then the other, the other thing I've, I've always liked about the character, no matter what media is in, but especially in comics is that you can push it, whether or not as a writer or an artist push in one direction and get a totally different story.

[00:19:22] That is still Batman, whether or not you're going to play up the world's greatest detective, whether or not you're going to play up the pathos of the, the orphan whose parents were murdered, whether or not you're going to, you're going to play up the lone vigilante.

[00:19:35] Uh, training and acquiring all these skills, you know, whether you're going to play up the, the wacky rogues gallery, you know, you can tweak that slightly.

[00:19:45] And there's just been some amazing, you know, Batman stories.

[00:19:49] Um, is it more so the character that drew you to it?

[00:19:53] Or you said like, you love Gotham, although you wouldn't want to live there.

[00:19:56] Is there something in particular about the setting of Gotham that you're really wanted to play in that sandbox and continue to play with the new two-faced series?

[00:20:05] Yeah. I mean, I think Gotham's just, um, you know, everybody knows Gotham, you know, you can go to a non-comicbook reader and they know what Gotham is, you know, and it's, and Gotham can be kind of a Tim Burton fairy tale Gothic city, or it can be a more gritty kind of crime ridden place like, like the Nolan films.

[00:20:27] Um, for those people that don't read comics, but in the comics, it's, it's, it's a wild place.

[00:20:33] Like I read Dan Waters and, uh, Hayden Sherman's, um, Hayden Sherman's new book, um, Dark Patterns.

[00:20:42] Um, which is an idea.

[00:20:44] And the Gotham in that is just so surprising.

[00:20:48] It's so dangerous.

[00:20:49] It's so exciting.

[00:20:50] And it's great to kind of like, you know, to kind of contribute that, to contribute to Gotham as a place and how does it, you know, and how it feels, you know, and I'm always really fascinated.

[00:21:02] Like, why do people live there?

[00:21:04] People do, you know, it's like people, it's not just some people, it's a huge ecosystem of people that live there.

[00:21:11] I mean, there must be, you know, there must be something that keeps everyday people there, you know, that, you know, did they just become blind to all the jokers?

[00:21:20] Poison the water again.

[00:21:22] I'll get your bottle of water out of the fridge.

[00:21:23] Um, you know, I find that really like, you know, I mean, it's kind of goes back to kind of, you know, Grant Morrison's very kind of infamous thing where he says, well, who changes, uh, you know, who changes the wheels on the Batmobile?

[00:21:36] And it's nobody to comic, you know, I think you always have to kind of keep a little bit of that in your mind.

[00:21:42] And it's, you know, you don't, you never want to weigh it down with too much reality, but just thinking about Gotham and just.

[00:21:48] The, the dangerous elements of it, the kind of like the dreamlike elements of it, the excitement of it.

[00:21:54] Um, you know, it's a place where anything can happen.

[00:21:57] And as a writer, you know, that's very tantalizing.

[00:22:00] You know, I could kind of write anything will happen here.

[00:22:03] And I can't think of many fictional places where that's, that's the case.

[00:22:09] All right, let's take a quick break.

[00:22:19] After a string of unexplained disappearances in the southern parts of the United States, retired Detective Clint searches for his white trash brother.

[00:22:26] While searching for him, he ends up being abducted by aliens.

[00:22:30] He is now in the arena for Big Guns, Stupid Rednecks, an intergalactic cable's newest hit show, which puts him and other humans in laser gun gladiatorial combat.

[00:22:42] And his brother is the reigning champion with 27 kills.

[00:22:46] That's the premise for a new book from Banda Barnes, Big Guns, Stupid Rednecks.

[00:22:51] I got a chance to see an advanced preview of this book and being from the south, honestly, I was a bit skeptical going in.

[00:22:57] But they won me over and nothing is more powerful than an initially skeptic convert in my book.

[00:23:02] In Jimmy's words, Big Guns, Stupid Rednecks is many things, but it isn't subtle.

[00:23:07] It tells you exactly what it is up front.

[00:23:09] Then it delivers with a great premise, fantastic art, and a whole mess of fun.

[00:23:13] I had a great time reading Big Guns, Stupid Rednecks.

[00:23:16] And what I thought was going to be an indictment of redneck culture quickly showed it was actually a love letter.

[00:23:21] A family mystery, brother pitted against brother, aliens, fighting for profit in a big arena.

[00:23:26] This truly has it all.

[00:23:28] Issue one is out already, but you can still pick up a copy on the Band of Bards website.

[00:23:32] And current issues are available via your previews or lunar order form.

[00:23:36] Or just ask your LCS.

[00:23:37] Don't miss it.

[00:23:38] Let's get back to the show.

[00:23:40] In terms of Batman's rogues gallery, I mean, is Two-Face up there?

[00:23:46] Is it for you?

[00:23:46] Or is there somebody else?

[00:23:49] I think for Two-Face is number one.

[00:23:52] Number one.

[00:23:53] Okay.

[00:23:54] Number one.

[00:23:54] I wouldn't be writing his book if he was my favorite.

[00:23:57] Okay.

[00:23:59] Not even the Joker close for me.

[00:24:01] I mean, Joker's cool and he's fine and whatever.

[00:24:06] But, like, Two-Face is 100% number one.

[00:24:10] For me, Two-Face is...

[00:24:13] I mean, the Joker is so different from Batman.

[00:24:17] And I think that's kind of why he is, you know, Batman's arch nemesis.

[00:24:21] Because he's completely different.

[00:24:23] They are chalk and cheese.

[00:24:24] And that creates a tension between them.

[00:24:28] But Harvey, he's a kind of dark mirror of Batman.

[00:24:32] You know, he's still...

[00:24:33] In the same way that you've got Bruce and Batman, you know, you've got good Harvey and bad Harvey.

[00:24:38] They're two sides to the same person.

[00:24:42] And one of the things that I'm trying to do with this series is kind of remind people that as much as Harvey's a bad guy, he used to be a good guy.

[00:24:53] And that good guy is still there.

[00:24:55] And he's been led into a world, or he has been led into a world of criminality by his bad half.

[00:25:03] But that doesn't necessarily mean that that good side is still...

[00:25:07] It doesn't necessarily mean that that good side is gone.

[00:25:10] You know, it's still there.

[00:25:12] And what I find fascinating and tantalising about this is what happens when you're a good person surrounded by bad people and criminality.

[00:25:23] And you want to kind of get back up to the surface.

[00:25:27] You want to get back up to the, you know, civilised society.

[00:25:31] What do you do?

[00:25:33] Can you change the bad world?

[00:25:37] Can you influence the bad world?

[00:25:39] With your good half?

[00:25:42] And is half a good side enough to make a difference?

[00:25:45] And that's, you know, that's a big part of the tension of the story.

[00:25:49] Can the good side of Harvey do enough good to outweigh the bad side?

[00:25:57] That dynamic is what I think instantly, when I read the solicit, what instantly piqued my interest about the series.

[00:26:07] One, I've always liked Harvey Dent.

[00:26:09] I don't know if he's my favourite, you know, Batman villain.

[00:26:13] I've always...

[00:26:13] See you.

[00:26:14] I've always...

[00:26:14] No, wait.

[00:26:15] Christian.

[00:26:15] Christian.

[00:26:16] Christian.

[00:26:28] I've always liked Clayface.

[00:26:30] But there's always been something about, you know, Harvey Dent and Two-Face.

[00:26:35] As a lawyer myself, I've always liked that aspect of it.

[00:26:41] And some of the tropes of Two-Face are some of the things that we typically see, you know, the coin and the suit and all those different types of things.

[00:26:52] I thought that sometimes when he shows up, though, it's always just the bad side.

[00:26:59] He's always a villain.

[00:27:01] And I'm always interested, though, you know, because we have...

[00:27:07] He's Two-Face.

[00:27:09] Like, I'm always like...

[00:27:10] I feel like...

[00:27:12] And maybe it's just the things that I've read or seen.

[00:27:14] I feel like that side of him that was the district attorney is not really played up a lot.

[00:27:21] And so when I read the solicit for your Two-Face, like, it sounds like, oh, these are kind of going to be, like, equal players in this.

[00:27:30] And we're really going to see the conflict of Two-Face.

[00:27:33] So, you know, we're not going to see Two-Face the villain against Batman, which is what we typically see a lot of the time.

[00:27:39] We're going to see, like, Two-Face against Two-Face in this setting.

[00:27:43] And I'm like, that's what I want.

[00:27:45] I want to see somebody who is trying to do good and was a district attorney, you know, as equal or at least fighting for control with the other half of himself that is horribly scarred.

[00:27:59] And so that really piqued my interest because that's what I've been wanting in a Two-Face story.

[00:28:06] And...

[00:28:07] That's exactly what you're going to get.

[00:28:09] Okay.

[00:28:10] All right.

[00:28:11] I'm back up.

[00:28:11] We're okay now?

[00:28:12] You're going to sit back down?

[00:28:13] All right, fine.

[00:28:15] You've brought me back over again.

[00:28:16] Oh, good.

[00:28:17] Oh, good.

[00:28:20] Yeah, especially if I looked like some of the preview pages, I haven't read it yet, because, you know, it's not out.

[00:28:25] But some of the preview pages look like we see Harvey, like, in a courtroom.

[00:28:30] And I was like, great.

[00:28:32] Yes, please.

[00:28:33] Let me see it.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] I mean, let's just tip our hat to Fabio Veres, who is the series artist.

[00:28:41] And he is...

[00:28:43] It's his first DC book.

[00:28:44] He's done, like...

[00:28:45] Like I did.

[00:28:46] He's done, like, little shorts.

[00:28:49] But he did a Doom Patrol short, and he's done a Harley Quinn short.

[00:28:53] And this is his first full book.

[00:28:55] And he's smashing it.

[00:28:57] I mean, I remember when I pitched it, I said, this should look a little bit Dick Tracy.

[00:29:01] That's what we're going to go for.

[00:29:02] We're going for, like, a Dick Tracy vibe, pulpy, and then just, like, a cast of weirdos, you know, with just every strange kind of, like...

[00:29:12] You know, I'm really going for, like, delict villains.

[00:29:15] You know, the real wacky ones.

[00:29:17] You know, and we're going to have a whole parade of these guys coming through his course.

[00:29:21] And as he tries to deal with the kind of...

[00:29:25] The man-biss that happens in Gotham and trying to kind of, you know, keep that under control.

[00:29:31] And Fabio is just, like, every time he sends pages, I'm just like...

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:37] And I think this guy's going to be, you know, a real fan favourite.

[00:29:41] People are going to fall in love with him as an artist.

[00:29:43] And then we've got Ivan on the colours.

[00:29:46] And I can't say too much about what Ivan's doing because it kind of gives away some of the story.

[00:29:52] But you will see how Ivan is an integral part.

[00:29:57] I mean, every colourist is an integral part of the storytelling.

[00:30:00] But even more so with what Ivan's doing, you know, there's something very key happening in this comic.

[00:30:07] And you'll get a sense of what that is when you get to the last page of issue one.

[00:30:11] Oh!

[00:30:12] I know!

[00:30:13] I know!

[00:30:15] And because I always...

[00:30:17] And I'm sure you were just about to say this, but I am such a fan of letterers.

[00:30:24] And I think it's being lettered by Hassan.

[00:30:27] The best.

[00:30:28] The best.

[00:30:29] Oh, Hassan is so good.

[00:30:31] I mean, just...

[00:30:32] He's incredible.

[00:30:33] Crazy talented.

[00:30:35] And yeah.

[00:30:36] So, like, what a creative team.

[00:30:37] But yeah, the preview pages that I've seen look fantastic.

[00:30:40] I mean, Fabio looks like he's been doing this for decades.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:45] Yeah.

[00:30:45] He's not going to let anyone down.

[00:30:49] Like, it's...

[00:30:50] You know, it's the...

[00:31:06] It's...

[00:31:06] I had a really, you know...

[00:31:08] What I thought was a really good idea.

[00:31:10] And, you know, they agreed.

[00:31:11] And I had a really clear idea of what it should look like.

[00:31:16] And it wasn't my art.

[00:31:17] You know, it needed to be kind of pulpy and...

[00:31:20] Kind of noir-y and a little bit crimey, but weird.

[00:31:24] And at the time, I was talking to Katie Hubert, who was kind of handling the Bat offices while they were looking for the new head of Batman, again, Rob Levine.

[00:31:35] And she was the...

[00:31:36] She just, like...

[00:31:38] When I told her what I kind of wanted, it was like, I've got just the guy.

[00:31:43] And she showed me his pages, and I was just like...

[00:31:47] And then we sent the email out to him.

[00:31:49] As, you know, I'm...

[00:31:50] You know, I'm in...

[00:31:51] I've been in the scene for, like, you know, 15 years, 15, 18 years, whatever it's been.

[00:31:56] But as a writer, you know, I've only been writing for the last five years.

[00:32:00] So I'm like, you know, ooh, he's going to be up for it.

[00:32:02] But he was really excited, and it's just been a dream.

[00:32:06] I like to ask, you know, writers slash artists or artists slash writers, whatever, which one we put first.

[00:32:14] Because I'm always curious, like, when you do...

[00:32:16] Especially when you're doing art first and then you switch into writing.

[00:32:20] Is it easy for you to kind of, like, turn that off in, like, your artist brain and be like, all right, we're collaborating.

[00:32:29] And the collaboration is different when I'm the writer.

[00:32:32] And I'm working with an artist.

[00:32:34] You know, to not, like, get in the way.

[00:32:36] Is that easy for you to do?

[00:32:37] Yeah.

[00:32:38] A hundred percent.

[00:32:38] Yeah, because, I mean, that's an ego thing.

[00:32:42] So it's...

[00:32:43] I think once I've decided that this story doesn't suit my art...

[00:32:47] And it was the same thing you referenced Machine Gun Wizards at the start of this.

[00:32:50] It's a similar thing, right?

[00:32:51] It's not kind of like pulpy, noir-y kind of like vibe.

[00:32:55] That's just not my art.

[00:32:56] And so really, what you want to do is you want to look at what is the best for the story.

[00:33:02] Not what's the best for me.

[00:33:04] What's the best for the story?

[00:33:05] And when it's, you know, once you've got to that choice, it's easier.

[00:33:11] And then, you know, you choose your artist and let them go, you know.

[00:33:16] And it was the same with Patrick Reynolds on Bloodstained Teeth.

[00:33:18] You know, I didn't...

[00:33:20] You know, he does what he does so beautifully.

[00:33:23] I don't have to say.

[00:33:24] Anything can do anything.

[00:33:25] He can go.

[00:33:26] I mean, I would like to think that being an artist makes certain elements of being a writer easier.

[00:33:35] Because, for one, even though I'm not kind of like necessarily telling my collaborators

[00:33:43] that the visualizations that I'm having in my head, the fact that I can visualize a script

[00:33:50] as drawings, as images, as I'm going, helps me.

[00:33:54] You know, I know the kind of the pragmatics of don't put too many people in the panel.

[00:34:01] If you've got nine panels on a page, that's really headshot, headshot, maybe a little detail,

[00:34:05] a little detail.

[00:34:06] Do you know what I mean?

[00:34:06] Like, I kind of know.

[00:34:08] I also, I'm very aware of kind of like, you know, artists working healthily and not burning

[00:34:15] out, not kind of, you know, not putting too much weight on their shoulders.

[00:34:19] So I'm very kind of conscious of like, okay, we're going to have lots of detail here, but

[00:34:23] I'm going to give you a break over here.

[00:34:27] You know, it's...

[00:34:29] I was on another podcast interview recently, and the interviewer compared it to actors

[00:34:34] who be directors.

[00:34:36] And I think that was actually quite, that was quite on point, you know, because I can

[00:34:41] keep in mind how I would feel as an artist and what do I want in a script.

[00:34:48] And hopefully that helps me provide scripts that are enjoyable to work with, and I can

[00:34:54] give artists freedom to do what they do without kind of looking over their shoulder.

[00:34:59] Yeah.

[00:34:59] But if, you know, if they do ask me for help, I'm very happy to do it.

[00:35:02] But, you know, all the people I've worked with have just been phenomenal artists.

[00:35:07] Phenomenal.

[00:35:08] Yeah.

[00:35:09] I mean, that makes a lot of sense in terms of bringing that skill or at least that mindset

[00:35:15] of what you would like as an artist.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:19] Because, you know, you don't want to load up too many panels.

[00:35:22] Like sometimes writers might be focused on, I'm telling the story, I'm telling the story.

[00:35:28] And, you know, you do when you start writing comics and you start working with an artist

[00:35:31] as a collaborator.

[00:35:32] It's like, hey, this is great.

[00:35:34] You've written a great story.

[00:35:35] But there's no way all of these people and all of these words are going to fit on page

[00:35:40] one, you know, panel four.

[00:35:43] You know?

[00:35:44] I mean, to be clear, I mean, like, you know, what the skills I'm kind of like talking about,

[00:35:48] it's not like there's plenty of amazing writer writers that can do it as well.

[00:35:53] So, you know, I don't want to come on here and say, because I'm an artist, that makes me

[00:35:58] a better writer.

[00:35:59] No, I don't think you come across that way.

[00:36:01] I think your point is well taken.

[00:36:03] Yeah.

[00:36:04] I mean, I think a lot of it is, it's almost more about the welfare of the artist as it

[00:36:11] is about kind of like the formality of the script.

[00:36:16] You know, I'm a big, you know, there's that whole thing about like kind of like,

[00:36:23] pros, like having to give up personal life and social lives and weekends and working all

[00:36:31] for the night.

[00:36:31] And, you know, that is part of comics.

[00:36:33] Yeah.

[00:36:33] There's sometimes when you have to crunch a deadline and you're up working late.

[00:36:39] But I think it's important as artists that we don't, we don't kind of like put that on

[00:36:45] the pedestal and say, that's the normal, it should be the normal or kind of, you know,

[00:36:49] where is the badge of honor?

[00:36:50] And I certainly think about that when I'm writing for a lot that I don't, you know, I don't

[00:36:56] put too much pressure on, on them to, you know, give them something that's really hard to

[00:37:02] achieve.

[00:37:02] Right.

[00:37:03] No, I think that makes a lot of sense.

[00:37:06] And so, well, let's talk a little bit more.

[00:37:09] I mean, I know you can't tease too much with Tooth Face.

[00:37:12] But I, I love talking about like obscure DC characters and especially Batman has so many

[00:37:20] of them and not just in the comics and like the cartoons and, you know, I still remember,

[00:37:28] I mean, I, I'm 45.

[00:37:29] So, you know, I, I grew up watching reruns of the, you know, Adam, Adam West, Burt Ward

[00:37:37] TV show because my dad loved it and he would put it on and, you know, I, I mean, King Tut

[00:37:44] and Vincent Price as Egghead.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:49] The original Mr. Freeze.

[00:37:51] Oh yeah.

[00:37:52] And False Face.

[00:37:53] Do you remember False Face?

[00:37:54] He was from, he was, cause there's a funny little thing actually, False Face in, in the

[00:38:01] show was because they couldn't use Two-Face.

[00:38:03] It was too, they, they, they, they put False Face in it.

[00:38:07] Really?

[00:38:08] Yeah.

[00:38:09] There's lots of little, I mean, I don't know why I would know that.

[00:38:13] I don't know why I'd be researching that.

[00:38:14] I mean, I'm not saying anything.

[00:38:17] Um, but, uh, um, but yeah, no, I mean, like I think, I mean, what's interesting is we just

[00:38:25] revealed that the issue three cover, uh, that our amazing, I should also point out, uh, our

[00:38:31] amazing cover artist, Alderney, uh, Rivers, uh, who's just, oh my God, he's so good.

[00:38:38] Like, oh my God, he's delicious.

[00:38:40] Uh, he's art.

[00:38:42] Not him.

[00:38:42] I'm not going to eat him.

[00:38:43] I'm sure he is as well, but he's art.

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:46] You, you've moved past bloodstained teeth.

[00:38:48] Yeah.

[00:38:50] Um, and, uh, yeah, so we've revealed issue three's cover and it's kind of, it's all

[00:39:01] Baby Doll, but from the TV series, the animated series.

[00:39:05] Uh, and I always loved the Baby Doll episode when the character is introduced.

[00:39:10] And what's really cool is even though she's had cameos in like, she was in, um, uh, uh,

[00:39:17] what Batman White Knight, you see her just in kind of like the foreground.

[00:39:21] She's never had a speaking role in the main DC continuity.

[00:39:28] So like we had to kind of get it all approved by the lawyers and everything, make sure it

[00:39:32] was okay.

[00:39:33] But like, and that's like, you know, to be able to kind of go, okay, we've got this month

[00:39:37] of the week format every week.

[00:39:39] We can have a different case for Harvey to sort of deal with.

[00:39:42] And I was like, who do I want to have?

[00:39:45] You know, who are my favorite characters in the Batman universe?

[00:39:48] Both from the, you know, the animated, maybe the, uh, the 60s show, you know, maybe from

[00:39:54] the films, uh, of course, from the comics and to be able to go, you know, you know,

[00:40:00] cherry pick, oh, that, that person would be great.

[00:40:03] That person would be great.

[00:40:04] And this person would be great, you know, and that's been, that's been one of the best

[00:40:08] things about writing it.

[00:40:09] Um, and then of course, kind of like sprinkling a few new characters as well.

[00:40:13] Oh, I love it.

[00:40:14] Um, I just, I wanted to, I thought I had seen the, I think you or some, I thought I saw

[00:40:20] posted the issue three cover, but I just wanted to look at it again and it is, it's great.

[00:40:25] I went and looked it up and, um, it came up on, uh, the website league of comic geeks.

[00:40:30] I don't know if you've ever gone.

[00:40:32] Yeah.

[00:40:32] I I'm on there all the time.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] I like, I, if you comment on that, I'm reading your comment.

[00:40:37] Oh, well, yeah.

[00:40:39] The first comment, the first comment by a, uh, a Kevin Suarez says, OMG.

[00:40:45] After so many years in all caps, baby doll will finally make her appearance in the canon.

[00:40:50] We are truly winning.

[00:40:52] We are winning.

[00:40:53] We are winning.

[00:40:55] Um, so Kevin's very happy.

[00:40:57] Good.

[00:40:57] I'm glad Karen's happy.

[00:40:59] You know, I've wanted to, I'm writing this for Kevin.

[00:41:02] Um, um, it's funny.

[00:41:04] There's like, there's going to be lots of things in this book that are going to make people

[00:41:08] happy.

[00:41:09] Uh, cause you know, do you know why I know?

[00:41:12] Cause it's making me happy.

[00:41:14] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:41:15] That's the thing.

[00:41:15] Cause I'm like such a big fan.

[00:41:16] I'm like, what do I, yeah, I want to see this character.

[00:41:18] I want to see that character.

[00:41:19] I want to see this character, you know?

[00:41:21] And I want to see, you know, I want to get to the nitty gritty of who Harvey is, you

[00:41:25] know, you know, this, this conflict between the good and the bad, but also like, why,

[00:41:31] you know, why is the bad side so bad?

[00:41:34] Let's get to the bottom of that, you know, and really kind of like look at, you know,

[00:41:39] I mean, I think kind of like going into city of madness, like, you know, city of madness,

[00:41:42] even though it was cosmic horror, it was grounded in, in, you know, psychology and, and I look

[00:41:49] at kind of trauma and what that does to a person.

[00:41:51] You know, obviously that's something that's really important to me as a writer.

[00:41:55] So there's definitely going to be some of that in, um, in Two-Face.

[00:41:59] Um, and I keep talking about it.

[00:42:00] I talked about it on this other interview I was on, but like issue four is the one that

[00:42:06] people are going to be like, what issue four is the one.

[00:42:10] Issue four?

[00:42:12] Stick with me to issue four.

[00:42:14] All right.

[00:42:14] That's the one.

[00:42:15] I mean, I just think, um, I mean, I'm just, I'm a, I'm such a fan of your work and I think

[00:42:22] that you've, you know, um, I'm trying to think of the right way to articulate this, but the

[00:42:29] comics you have made, and if anyone has given any of those a chance, you know, not your cover

[00:42:35] work is fantastic, but the, some of the ones that you have co-created like Odyssey and, and,

[00:42:40] uh, Invisible Kingdom.

[00:42:41] I, I also really loved or, or Machine Gun Wizards.

[00:42:44] I mean, I, even if someone hasn't, you know, who they're listening to this podcast because

[00:42:48] they love indie comics and that's what they read and they haven't really checked out, um,

[00:42:53] big two stuff or DC stuff in a while.

[00:42:56] I think you have earned, you know, um, enough in this industry from the good work that you

[00:43:03] have done for folks to want to take a chance on something like this to Facebook and especially

[00:43:10] to hear you talk about it, your, your passion for Batman, for Gotham, for Two-Face and the

[00:43:15] type of story you want to tell, you know, comes through in what you've put out on social media

[00:43:20] and, you know, in talking to you now.

[00:43:23] Um, and I, I just think it, it just sounds like a very exciting series for me personally,

[00:43:29] like I said, as an old man and an attorney, um, it just sounds like-

[00:43:33] I'm older than you, by the way.

[00:43:35] I'll point that out.

[00:43:36] You say, you say you're 45?

[00:43:37] Well, spiritual, 45.

[00:43:38] Spiritually, I'm very old.

[00:43:40] Oh, I don't believe it.

[00:43:41] I've got three years on you.

[00:43:42] I don't, I don't believe it.

[00:43:44] Um, yeah, I, it just sounds like exactly what I am looking for in, in this, you know, type

[00:43:51] of series and, um, I'm very excited for it and yeah, I, the preview pages look fantastic

[00:43:57] and, uh, yeah, I can't wait for folks to, to check it out and, and start reading it, Christian.

[00:44:03] Oh, I, I, I'm so excited.

[00:44:05] I mean, I'm like, I've already scheduled for December to be, not have any work on because

[00:44:11] I know what I'll be like, I'm just going to be checking like kind of like comic book

[00:44:14] roundup and the full mentioned league of comic book geeks and like social blue sky and Instagram

[00:44:21] and, and, but a little bit, uh, and just like, you know, having a look at what people

[00:44:26] think, you know, I'm, I'm desperate when people get to the last page or better off.

[00:44:33] All better off.

[00:44:35] Well, um, I, I encourage listeners to check it out.

[00:44:38] Um, it's out December 4th.

[00:44:42] It's the new two face series, uh, Christian Ward, uh, Fabio Varis.

[00:44:48] Uh, yeah.

[00:44:49] Ivan Placencia, uh, um, Hassan, Otsman Elhau.

[00:44:52] And, uh, yeah.

[00:44:53] Also listeners because we love indie comics here.

[00:44:56] I would be remiss.

[00:44:57] I talked about it in the beginning.

[00:44:59] Uh, dark horses, Tommy gun wizards.

[00:45:02] It's like a four issue series.

[00:45:04] You, you can get it, get it.

[00:45:05] It's great.

[00:45:06] Yeah.

[00:45:06] Great.

[00:45:07] If you like gangster stuff, wizard stuff.

[00:45:09] Machine gun wizards.

[00:45:10] We have to change the title.

[00:45:12] Oh, machine gun wizards.

[00:45:14] That's right.

[00:45:14] Machine gun wizards.

[00:45:15] And we started.

[00:45:15] Did I just say Tommy gun wizards?

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:18] Oh, okay.

[00:45:19] Tommy gun.

[00:45:19] And then we had to change the, uh, we changed the title.

[00:45:23] We won't say anything about that.

[00:45:24] Uh, yeah.

[00:45:25] Machine gun wizards.

[00:45:26] Yeah.

[00:45:27] 1930s prohibition, but it's not alcohol that's been outlawed.

[00:45:31] It's magic.

[00:45:31] Um, Elliot Ness and the untouchables have to take down a magic powered mob led by Al

[00:45:38] Owen.

[00:45:39] I love it.

[00:45:40] It's so good.

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:42] Do you know what we wanted them?

[00:45:44] It was going to be a much longer series.

[00:45:46] Um, and then the pandemic happened.

[00:45:48] Yeah.

[00:45:49] Um, and, uh, yeah, it got out, but there was, we actually had the second.

[00:45:54] Ah, greenlit.

[00:45:55] Uh, really?

[00:45:56] Which was going to be really, you know, yeah, it was going to be really good.

[00:45:59] I was going to do something with a torso killer in the second arc.

[00:46:02] Um, cause that was Ness as well.

[00:46:05] Um, and, uh, it was going to be like, kind of like, you know, oh, it was so good.

[00:46:10] But you know, who knows?

[00:46:11] Who knows?

[00:46:12] One day.

[00:46:13] One day.

[00:46:13] I don't think, I don't think it's, I don't, I don't think this is the last you've heard

[00:46:18] of, uh, of Michigan and Wizards.

[00:46:20] Oh, okay.

[00:46:20] We're going to hear, we're going to hear about them again.

[00:46:23] I hope so.

[00:46:24] Um, Christian, this has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.

[00:46:28] I really appreciate you coming on, talking comics and DC with me.

[00:46:32] So listeners check it out.

[00:46:33] Also, I have to give a, every episode, I give a shout out to my brother, Bobby, the

[00:46:37] cryptic creator corners.

[00:46:38] Number one, most dedicated fan, Bob, my brother, Bobby listens to all my episodes.

[00:46:43] And, um, uh, yeah, I think, but Bobby's also a, a, a Batman fan.

[00:46:49] And I think he's probably going to like, Bobby sounds like a smart, he sounds like a smart

[00:46:53] guy.

[00:46:53] He's very smart.

[00:46:54] He is.

[00:46:54] Well, I mean, he's my little brother, but yeah, well, okay.

[00:46:57] Well, he's smart.

[00:46:58] He's smart.

[00:46:59] Um, so Christian, thanks again.

[00:47:02] Listeners to face December 4th, 2024.

[00:47:06] Um, let me know if you get it, find me on blue sky.

[00:47:09] Um, I, I, I might, I'll probably make a tick tock of it.

[00:47:13] Cause I've been trying to talk about comics more on tick tock.

[00:47:16] Um, and, uh, yeah, let me know what it is.

[00:47:19] You're reading.

[00:47:20] Let us know if you like the podcast and let us know what you think about it.

[00:47:23] Let us know.

[00:47:24] We're doing a good job.

[00:47:25] Uh, thank you so much for listening.

[00:47:27] Uh, have a good night and I'll see you next time.

[00:47:29] This is Byron O'Neill.

[00:47:31] One of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book

[00:47:35] Yeti.

[00:47:35] We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast.

[00:47:39] Please rate review, subscribe all that good stuff.

[00:47:43] It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve.

[00:47:47] Thanks for listening.

[00:47:49] If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner,

[00:47:53] maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics.

[00:47:56] Kate, listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[00:47:59] thanks for listening to the clущ purple podcast.

[00:48:00] Thanks for listening.

[00:48:00] Bye.