Christopher Cantwell Interview: Challengers of the Unknown

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You have just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:10] Hey everyone, this is...

[00:00:13] Hi Byron.

[00:00:14] Who is this?

[00:00:15] I'm your fairy godmother.

[00:00:17] I have a fairy godmother?

[00:00:18] Of course you do.

[00:00:20] I'm 50 years old, why haven't you shown up before?

[00:00:22] I appear when I'm needed.

[00:00:24] And I didn't need you in all these years?

[00:00:27] Do you want my help or not?

[00:00:29] Um...

[00:00:30] Sure.

[00:00:31] Exactly.

[00:00:32] I was just about to pitch our Patreon.

[00:00:34] Why would I need help with that?

[00:00:36] Because you're an idiot sometimes.

[00:00:38] That's hurtful.

[00:00:40] What were you going to put on there?

[00:00:42] We do comic stuff, so something along those lines?

[00:00:45] And this is why I'm here.

[00:00:48] You do know what people put on Patreon most of the time, right?

[00:00:52] Honestly, no.

[00:00:54] People need something a little bit spicy to entice them to support you.

[00:00:59] Nobody wants to see me shirtless.

[00:01:01] I doubt that's true.

[00:01:03] You are in pretty good shape considering your age.

[00:01:06] Thank you.

[00:01:06] Let's see.

[00:01:07] A little spicy.

[00:01:08] I've been bugging Jimmy to figure out what he's going to do.

[00:01:12] I know lately he's been playing around with his all the time.

[00:01:16] He loves to take it out and show it off.

[00:01:18] There's even a specific TikTok channel now.

[00:01:20] How's that sound?

[00:01:21] Not a bad start.

[00:01:22] People like Jimmy.

[00:01:23] What else you got?

[00:01:24] I told a story recently about being in a strip club with some of the four horsemen when I

[00:01:28] was working for WCW back in the day.

[00:01:30] I picked up an infection on my eye.

[00:01:32] Woo!

[00:01:33] From the experience, I hate strip clubs.

[00:01:36] Is that better?

[00:01:37] Getting there.

[00:01:38] But maybe spicy shouldn't include infections you get in strip clubs.

[00:01:42] That's not sexy.

[00:01:44] We'll workshop it.

[00:01:46] Like I need more meating.

[00:01:47] At least tell them where to find it while we figure this out.

[00:01:50] Mother goddess, help this poor man.

[00:01:53] You can find us on Patreon at Cryptid Creator Corner Pod.

[00:01:57] I'll put it in the show notes.

[00:01:58] Anything else you'd like to remind me that I'm bad at?

[00:02:01] How much time do you have?

[00:02:03] Why do you look like Rosario Dawson anyway?

[00:02:05] I appear the way you want me to look.

[00:02:07] Okay, that's disturbing.

[00:02:09] Wait, have you been showing up in my dreams?

[00:02:12] I'll never tell.

[00:02:14] And we're done here.

[00:02:16] Y'all, Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again.

[00:02:20] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media.

[00:02:27] My bad.

[00:02:28] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know.

[00:02:30] And now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing.

[00:02:35] Another friend chimes in.

[00:02:36] Are you going to make maps?

[00:02:38] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess?

[00:02:42] Question mark?

[00:02:43] It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge.

[00:02:45] If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive.

[00:02:52] Allowing you to build, play, and export animated maps including in-person Fog of War capability that lets

[00:02:59] your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture.

[00:03:04] Now I'm set to easily build high-res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign.

[00:03:12] That's a win every day in my book.

[00:03:14] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off.

[00:03:20] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you.

[00:03:22] And big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show.

[00:03:25] I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:03:29] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner.

[00:03:32] I'm one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I'm very excited about this episode and this creator that I'm going to be talking with today.

[00:03:40] They are one of the creators and writers of the television show Halt and Catch Fire.

[00:03:45] You might have been familiar with that, but their comic book career.

[00:03:48] They have written one of my favorites that came out through Vault Comics, The Blue Flame.

[00:03:53] She Could Fly Everything.

[00:03:55] Their Doctor Doom series was nominated for an Eisner Award in 2020 for Best New Series.

[00:04:01] They've also written The Mask, Iron Man, Captain America, Star Wars, Obi-Wan, Briar, regarding the matter of Oswald's body.

[00:04:07] And a couple of the series that we're going to talk about today, like Plastic Man No More, which is to just come out recently.

[00:04:13] But please, welcome to the podcast, Christopher Cantwell.

[00:04:16] Chris, how are you doing today?

[00:04:18] Good.

[00:04:19] Thanks for having me, Jimmy.

[00:04:20] This is great.

[00:04:21] No, I really appreciate it.

[00:04:23] It's, you know, it's why I do this.

[00:04:25] It's always nice to talk to folks who make stuff that I, you know, enjoy reading and talking about.

[00:04:31] But yeah, like I said, I was a big fan of The Blue Flame when that series first came out.

[00:04:36] Really liked your work on it.

[00:04:38] I think Adam Gorham was the artist.

[00:04:39] Yeah.

[00:04:40] And he's doing, what's he doing right now?

[00:04:43] That's like something incredible.

[00:04:44] Is it called Hell Riders?

[00:04:46] Or I can't remember.

[00:04:47] It's like the World War II team.

[00:04:49] And it's like Ghost Rider, Wolverine.

[00:04:51] Yeah.

[00:04:52] It's amazing.

[00:04:53] He's been drawing Darth Vader for a while.

[00:04:54] It's been so good.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:56] Yeah.

[00:04:57] I really like that.

[00:04:59] It caught my attention right away because my dad is in HVAC mechanics.

[00:05:03] What I heard of him.

[00:05:07] Superhero who's an HVAC mechanic?

[00:05:09] Like you.

[00:05:10] I'll check out and see what Sam's up to and what a ride that series was.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:17] I love that one.

[00:05:18] Yes.

[00:05:18] Thank you so much.

[00:05:19] That one really was born out of, I feel like that's one of the darker books I've written.

[00:05:22] I feel like that really came out of, that really, that book came out of the idea of,

[00:05:28] I just felt, I don't know, it was just a disillusioning time when I came out with that

[00:05:34] or when I came up with that and pitched it to Adrian at vault.

[00:05:37] But it was just things that were going on in the world that made me, you know, wonder

[00:05:42] what good superheroes actually would be and what, you know, what were things that superheroes

[00:05:48] would not be able to affect or help with.

[00:05:52] And what does it mean to make that choice?

[00:05:54] And yeah, do you help or hurt more?

[00:05:57] You know?

[00:05:58] And so I, it was, it was good to explore those themes in that book.

[00:06:01] But yeah, it's a heavy book, but it was, it was good.

[00:06:04] Oh yeah.

[00:06:06] It, it, it definitely is.

[00:06:07] I mean, I feel, I thought it worked best though in those, in those moments for any listeners

[00:06:12] who aren't familiar with it.

[00:06:13] The main character, Sam, he's a vigilante type superhero.

[00:06:18] He's in a group called night brigade.

[00:06:21] And essentially the book opens up with like a, a mass shooting where the night brigade is

[00:06:28] located.

[00:06:28] And then Sam kind of goes through a journey in terms of his recovery from that.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:36] Yeah.

[00:06:36] All the other members of his, and they're like kind of low rent in real life and it's

[00:06:40] in Milwaukee and they're all, all of the members are killed.

[00:06:43] So everyone, so he ends up in recovery, living, living with his estranged sister and her husband.

[00:06:52] And, uh, and she's pregnant and they have not spoken in a long time and he's in a really

[00:06:57] bad, dark place.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:07:00] I'm very dark.

[00:07:02] Yeah.

[00:07:02] But I mean, when we talk about the different things, and maybe this will be interesting as

[00:07:07] we talk about like plastic man no more and, and the upcoming challenges of the unknown.

[00:07:11] But when we talk about the different swings, comic books have gone through, you know, from

[00:07:16] the bronze age to the, to the silver age and the, I guess, you know, the dark or the sometimes

[00:07:23] grittiness of the nineties into the early two thousands.

[00:07:27] But what I liked about the blue flame is sometimes when folks say, oh, this story was grounded, it

[00:07:32] could, it was gritty.

[00:07:34] It could really happen, but there's still some like superhero fantastic elements to it.

[00:07:40] Yeah, there are things happening in the book that are like cosmic in nature and like, cause

[00:07:43] there are different iterations of him where he's, there's kind of the real life, low rent

[00:07:49] Milwaukee version of the team.

[00:07:51] And then there's, there's this version that he sees himself as that is much more of the

[00:07:57] polished cosmic superhero on an actual kind of, uh, intergalactic adventure.

[00:08:05] And there's a real crossover in the book in terms of what's real, what's not what's in

[00:08:10] Sam's head, what's not.

[00:08:12] Um, and yeah, it was, it was fun to be able to do both those battles.

[00:08:17] Yeah.

[00:08:17] I mean, I feel when, um, you know, when you talk about grounded, I mean, that was a story

[00:08:23] where like Sam, when he, he is, when he struggles, he, he really struggles.

[00:08:27] I mean, in terms of his everyday life, living with his sister, um, his, you know, narcotic

[00:08:34] use, his alcohol use.

[00:08:36] I mean, he's abusing painkillers, barely walk.

[00:08:40] Uh, yeah, he's in a support group.

[00:08:42] It's a, it's a, he's a total mess.

[00:08:45] Uh, his, his, uh, and this was the idea of the book, which is, you know, things that superheroes

[00:08:50] are less equipped to deal with where I get, it starts with the mass shooting.

[00:08:53] And then there's the problems that he has with his sister in terms of they've been fighting

[00:08:59] over their parents' house for years.

[00:09:00] Their parents died in a, in a car accident because, uh, you know, one of them was an

[00:09:05] alcoholic and they got into a wreck.

[00:09:07] Uh, sister is pregnant, her husband, or maybe even boyfriend, and I don't think they're married

[00:09:13] yet.

[00:09:13] That's right.

[00:09:14] Um, Mateo is, uh, um, undocumented.

[00:09:17] And so at one point he gets picked up by ice because of stuff that Sam's done and, uh, he's

[00:09:26] in detention and they, you know, Sam is, he calls himself the blue flame, but he can't

[00:09:30] really help anybody at a certain point.

[00:09:33] Uh, but then on the, on the other side of the cosmic coin, you know, he's, he is the

[00:09:38] representative, um, in like an, an, an, an, an alien court trying to make the argument

[00:09:44] for why human beings should continue and not be annihilated as a threat to the rest of

[00:09:50] the universe.

[00:09:50] So he's sometimes, uh, hard pressed to make a good argument.

[00:09:55] Uh, but he really does try in certain ways and he has to like dig deep into himself and

[00:09:59] stuff.

[00:10:00] And yeah, it's a very introspective book, but, um, one I'm really proud of with the, uh, and

[00:10:05] especially getting to do it with Adam.

[00:10:07] That was such a, such a joy to work with him.

[00:10:09] He's such a great guy.

[00:10:10] Yeah.

[00:10:11] His, his artwork is like, it's just gorgeous in it.

[00:10:15] Both the, the Milwaukee stuff as well as the cosmic stuff and Kurt Michael Russell, I think

[00:10:21] colored it is, is fantastic.

[00:10:22] Yes.

[00:10:23] Kurt did some, some beautiful stuff.

[00:10:25] And, and I think what I love about Adam's work is this spatial acting of the people in

[00:10:32] his books, regardless of who they are or what kind of scope they're experiencing are.

[00:10:37] It's always so, uh, evocative and emotional to see the acting he's able to bring out in,

[00:10:44] in the characters expressions.

[00:10:47] No, absolutely.

[00:10:48] And there's, there's a lot of motion, emotion, uh, in, in this book.

[00:10:52] Um, uh, as you know, some of the things you've mentioned that Sam and his D and Mateo is,

[00:10:59] is, I guess, uh, sort pseudo brother-in-law kind of have to go through.

[00:11:04] True.

[00:11:04] That's right.

[00:11:04] Cause they also have like an ad hoc wedding at one point in the book.

[00:11:07] We try to solve his immigration problem.

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:10] That's happening.

[00:11:11] Yeah.

[00:11:13] There's a lot in it, but it, it's well worth the time.

[00:11:16] It's a vault has it collected in all 10 issues and nice trade.

[00:11:19] So, so listeners, if you're not familiar with the blue flame, um, go out, go out there and

[00:11:24] get that.

[00:11:24] I really love it.

[00:11:25] Um, but yeah, I wanted to talk to you about some of the stuff you have coming out and in

[00:11:31] terms of right now, I think there's three issues out of, of plastic man.

[00:11:35] No more three of four.

[00:11:36] So plastic man, no more.

[00:11:37] It's a DC black label book.

[00:11:39] So it's that kind of more adult audience, you know, book.

[00:11:42] And it's something that I pitched Chris Conroy, uh, at DC.

[00:11:48] Oh gosh, maybe more than a year ago.

[00:11:50] And, and said, I want to do a plastic man body horror book.

[00:11:54] And he was like, I'm listening.

[00:11:56] And, uh, so we put that thing together, but I actually think there's, there's some really

[00:12:01] interesting parallels with that book in the blue flame and that we're dealing with, uh,

[00:12:06] Patrick O'Brien, um, Eel O'Brien.

[00:12:09] Right.

[00:12:10] And he is plastic man and he finds out, um, that he is depolymerizing, like basically

[00:12:17] his, he's molecularly coming apart and it's been accelerated by something that happens

[00:12:22] to him, but also it might just be the natural end result of his original chemical accident.

[00:12:27] So here's this guy who's, you know, silly and glib and he's in the justice league and

[00:12:34] the justice league doesn't take him very seriously.

[00:12:36] And he's got a lot of one liners and, and, uh, he's kind of a goofball.

[00:12:40] But what's interesting also about the character is that he has a criminal past, you know, that,

[00:12:46] that Patrick is someone who started as a crook, um, and then became a hero.

[00:12:54] And, and he's also had a not great family life, which is similar to what some of the

[00:12:59] stuff that's in the blue flame where, and this is canon.

[00:13:01] I mean, this has been in DC over the years, but you know, he's has, you know, an ex-wife,

[00:13:06] ex-girlfriend.

[00:13:07] Sometimes it depends on, on who's writing it, how the story is defined, but, um, Angel

[00:13:12] O'Brien, um, they had a kid.

[00:13:14] His name was Luke.

[00:13:16] Luke is, um, has been in the Teen Titans and other, other places, but he's very estranged

[00:13:20] from his son who has his powers.

[00:13:22] And so the kickoff point for the book really is, is Patrick realizing that the same thing

[00:13:30] could happen to his son.

[00:13:32] And he has not spoken to his son in years.

[00:13:35] And then all of a sudden he decides he's going to try to save his son's life, even as he himself

[00:13:40] is in effect dying, um, and coming apart.

[00:13:45] And so, uh, the book is really a father son book.

[00:13:48] And, um, I think we got to do, I, you know, with great respects to all of the people who

[00:13:53] have written Luke O'Brien over the years and put him in the Titans and, and stuff.

[00:13:57] I think we've gotten to build a really kind of beautiful dimensionalized version of, of

[00:14:02] Luke.

[00:14:03] And, and I think Patrick, I think it's, uh, um, a good relationship between the two of

[00:14:08] them as well.

[00:14:09] And, and, um, and, and even bringing Angel in there, but, but it's another book where

[00:14:15] we're dealing with multiple styles, where, um, just as blue flame has a cosmic story going

[00:14:21] on in addition to this gritty Milwaukee story in plastic man, we have the very personal body

[00:14:26] horror family relationship stuff that Patrick is going through.

[00:14:31] And it's drawn by my longtime, uh, partner, a collaborator, Alex Linz.

[00:14:36] Um, he and I did a Hellcat book at Marvel together that I'm really proud of.

[00:14:40] He did the second arc of Briar, my original book at boom.

[00:14:43] He and I were nominated for an Eisner for a moon night story, which was the first thing we

[00:14:47] ever did together.

[00:14:48] And, uh, he just draws, he draws Patrick coming apart, uh, very well and, uh, very

[00:14:56] horrifically.

[00:14:56] Um, but also just brings the characters to life with such quirk and, um, idiosyncrasy

[00:15:03] and, and how they're all portrayed.

[00:15:05] And then we have Jacob Edgar who is drawing all of the justice league stuff, which is

[00:15:10] done, um, very much in the style of kind of Darwin cook and new frontier and a

[00:15:17] certain seventies, eighties cartoon DC tells me I legally can't mention.

[00:15:22] Now it's portrayed.

[00:15:23] Um, but that's how the, uh, the justice league sees plastic man is through that lens.

[00:15:30] And so that's very clean lines and colorful.

[00:15:32] If he's still telling him things like I'm dying and they, they, you know, but they,

[00:15:37] they still laugh and he, he makes his offhanded jokes and they laugh, but they just don't

[00:15:41] take him seriously.

[00:15:41] And so here's this guy who now finds himself suddenly at the end of his life perhaps.

[00:15:46] And he's wondering if he ever took himself seriously, if he ever took anything seriously,

[00:15:51] his family, his relationships, um, and if he's ever really amounted to much.

[00:15:56] And so it, it, it backs him into this desperate corner.

[00:15:59] And I think, um, he gets to be equally kind of emotionally heroic, but also make some really

[00:16:06] poor decisions, um, and make a bad situation worse for a lot of people in the story.

[00:16:12] Um, and it's got a great ensemble and supporting cast and stuff.

[00:16:16] And, um, I'm really, really, really proud of the book.

[00:16:19] It's my first DC book ever.

[00:16:21] And for that to be our first book, I'm just, I'm just, um, I'm so thrilled that that could

[00:16:25] be, um, that could be the first one out of the gate for me.

[00:16:29] I'm, I'm, and to do with Alex, it's been, it's been great.

[00:16:33] Yeah.

[00:16:33] I know Alex, um, that the, the story was a good morning, right.

[00:16:37] It was from moon night, black, white, and one.

[00:16:40] I'm mostly familiar with, you know, plastic man with, with, with Eel O'Brien, um, you know,

[00:16:46] probably from the, the, the justice league books from, uh, I mean, I guess the early part

[00:16:51] of the, the, the two thousands and he, he is, he definitely is, is written as, um, kind

[00:16:58] of comic relief.

[00:17:00] Uh, he has a very flirtatious to creepy relationship at times with, uh, with wonder woman and whatever

[00:17:08] other female justice leaguers are there.

[00:17:10] And like in that iteration, but one, one of the things I, I found, you know, right away,

[00:17:16] just how like heartbreaking it was for this character that acted a lot, like, you know,

[00:17:23] like, like the comic relief, like, uh, a bit silly, a bit, um, you know, just didn't

[00:17:29] take things as seriously at times.

[00:17:32] Um, when he's saying that, like, he thinks he's dying and they're still like, they're still

[00:17:37] the justice league and those parts are laughing.

[00:17:39] It is, you know, it's, it's heartbreaking.

[00:17:41] It almost reminded me of, um, Romeo and Juliet.

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:44] They did this better in the, the Baz Luhrmann movie when Mercrucio is dying and they're

[00:17:49] still, they're still like laughing at some of his, they think he's kind of joking that,

[00:17:55] that tragedy of it is, you know.

[00:17:58] Yeah.

[00:17:58] And this idea of like how other people have seen him his whole life, either as a screw

[00:18:02] up or somebody who's been selfish, um, like his, you know, his ex-wife and kid or, or

[00:18:11] as a goofball.

[00:18:13] And so he really has a whole thing of being seen.

[00:18:18] And I, I, you know, I was really happy to bring in the character of Woozie Winks, which

[00:18:24] is a Jack Cole creation from the original Plastic Man stories, like from the police, uh, the

[00:18:30] police comics, because Woozie is kind of the only guy who is more of a numbskull than Patrick.

[00:18:37] And Patrick gets to be the alpha in that relationship, but it is kind of this undying loyalty, um,

[00:18:46] where Woozie is, he's just, he's the, he, he's, uh, he's taken even less seriously than

[00:18:54] Patrick by the world.

[00:18:55] And I think, but yet he is the one that is there for him the most in our book because

[00:19:01] he's his friend and he's, he's, he knows all of Eel's story, you know, the good and

[00:19:08] the bad.

[00:19:09] And he's been there for most of it.

[00:19:11] So he just without question is immediately by his side.

[00:19:17] Um, when most, if not everybody else is not.

[00:19:23] And I think that's very meaningful in the, in the book and for the, for the relationship

[00:19:27] between the two of them.

[00:19:29] Uh, yeah.

[00:19:30] I mean, it's clear that, you know, when they're in their, um, crime days that, that, you know,

[00:19:37] Patrick was kind of like the leader, I guess, of the, the, the, the two of them.

[00:19:43] But there's, I might, I think it's, I don't know if it's issue two or three where Woozie

[00:19:48] is definitely becomes the voice of reason.

[00:19:50] It is, it is, it is somewhat disconcerting when that turn happens.

[00:19:56] And, um, yeah, you see kind of how driven, you know, Patrick is becoming about what it

[00:20:03] is he's trying to accomplish as he realizes that he's, uh, uh, de polymerizing.

[00:20:09] He just wants to be seen by the world a certain way.

[00:20:12] Right.

[00:20:12] At least he wants to be seen sincerely and for who he is.

[00:20:16] The book was also really inspired by a movie from the seventies with Dustin Hoffman called

[00:20:22] straight time, which is a really wonderful movie.

[00:20:24] And it's kind of about the myth of rehabilitation and, and Dustin Hoffman, it starts with Dustin

[00:20:30] Hoffman getting out of prison and really trying to walk the straight narrow with his parole

[00:20:35] officer.

[00:20:35] Who's M.M.

[00:20:36] At Walsh.

[00:20:37] And he just can't take the demeaning humiliation of the system and life.

[00:20:45] And he, he's constantly kind of pushing himself and bucking against that system.

[00:20:52] And he knows it will catch up to him one day.

[00:20:55] And I think that that's just, that's what the same thing is happening to Patrick in this

[00:20:59] book.

[00:21:00] It just, he had this interlude where he got to be a hero and be in the justice league

[00:21:04] and do that for decades.

[00:21:06] But now all of a sudden, uh, there's a reckoning on, on who he really is.

[00:21:11] Yeah.

[00:21:12] Yeah.

[00:21:12] I'm not familiar with straight time.

[00:21:14] I'll have to check that out.

[00:21:14] Oh, it's a wonderful movie.

[00:21:15] And it's got a beautiful, one of those great like seventies endings where you're just like,

[00:21:19] uh, you know.

[00:21:21] Yeah.

[00:21:22] I was just looking it up here.

[00:21:24] So it's, oh, it's from 78.

[00:21:25] Okay.

[00:21:26] The biggest, the biggest lift from that movie in our book, I'll say it's no mind, but like

[00:21:32] there's a robbery planned in that there's a jewelry soul robbery in that movie and, uh,

[00:21:40] it's all planned.

[00:21:41] And, um, Dustin Hoffman refuses to leave.

[00:21:45] He just needs to steal more and more until time runs out until it's too late.

[00:21:52] And that is almost exactly how plastic man number one opens.

[00:21:56] There's more of a personal reason why Patrick is still in that jewelry store and won't leave.

[00:22:01] Um, that comes back around into our final issue.

[00:22:04] But, but yes, that, that kind of almost obsessive need to go against the grain,

[00:22:11] seeing that in the character from the very beginning before they're a hero.

[00:22:15] Uh, sets up what the decisions they make when they are technically a hero later on.

[00:22:20] Okay.

[00:22:21] Yeah.

[00:22:22] And I do want to say, I mean, I, I love, I think it's, uh, you said Jacob Edgar's work

[00:22:27] for the justice league stuff, but Alex's work is like absolutely incredible, especially

[00:22:33] as I mean, plastic man is kind of literally coming apart.

[00:22:37] Um, but there's, it, you know, it's, it's gotta be hard enough drawing, you know, persons and

[00:22:45] action scenes and fighting, but now you have somebody who can stretch, doesn't have the

[00:22:49] right proportions.

[00:22:50] It's kind of falling apart.

[00:22:51] And he really like, even in the panel work, find some really interesting ways to, you know,

[00:22:57] play with this story, which I thought were incredible.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] He's, I mean, Alex is, he's one of the best I've worked with.

[00:23:04] And I just, I, the way I described Alex, I described some, this to him, as I said, he's

[00:23:10] kind of like if, if Bill Watterson was like possessed by the devil, that's what it feels

[00:23:16] like.

[00:23:16] His art style is so human and so sweet and innocent and net, and yet so dark and so horrific at

[00:23:23] time.

[00:23:25] And like, he's this, there's some stuff in four, we're seeing finally, uh, Marcello's

[00:23:30] coloring for, and there are some splash pages of four of, of plastic man and what is happening

[00:23:39] to him that are just, I think like, I think iconic moments of the character that are so

[00:23:45] distorted and grotesque and yet so raw and human that you, I don't know.

[00:23:53] It's amazing how he's able to pull it off.

[00:23:55] It's really, it's really impressive.

[00:23:57] Well, I'm looking forward to that one.

[00:23:59] Cause I put the first, I read the first three, thought they were fantastic.

[00:24:03] So yeah, um, I'm excited to see where it goes, especially, I think in one section, there is

[00:24:08] a very interesting kind of panel and paneling in terms of how it's split up, but a conversation

[00:24:14] between, uh, Patrick and, and Luke that I just thought was tremendous.

[00:24:20] I think it was great.

[00:24:21] Yeah.

[00:24:22] All right, let's take a quick break.

[00:24:24] I love comic books.

[00:24:26] Hey, children of the algorithm.

[00:24:27] I wanted to tell you about another great comics related podcast.

[00:24:30] Our friends, Dan, Dwayne and Sienna with Comics Over Time have a great show that you should

[00:24:34] definitely check out.

[00:24:35] Dan has been a Comic Book Yeti contributor since before I was around and the show delves

[00:24:39] deep into comics history, analyzing it from the wider cultural landscape at the time.

[00:24:44] I learned a lot just listening in and they are keeping it fresh too with Sienna reporting in

[00:24:48] about the current Marvel offerings.

[00:24:50] I love seeing the next generation excited about comics and it's cool to see a family participating

[00:24:55] in comics journalism together.

[00:24:57] This season, they are focused on the history of everyone's favorite Hell's Kitchen vigilante

[00:25:01] daredevil.

[00:25:02] It's a fantastic show that you're going to want to add to your rotation.

[00:25:06] You can find them at Comics Over Time on your favorite podcasting platform or at their website,

[00:25:12] comicsovertime.podbean.com.

[00:25:14] I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[00:25:16] He's a daredevil, Ned.

[00:25:18] After a string of unexplained disappearances in the southern parts of the United States,

[00:25:31] retired Detective Clint searches for his white trash brother.

[00:25:34] While searching for him, he ends up being abducted by aliens.

[00:25:38] He is now in the arena for Big Gun's Stupid Rednecks, an intergalactic cable's newest hit

[00:25:44] show which puts him and other humans in laser gun gladiatorial combat.

[00:25:49] And his brother is the reigning champion with 27 kills.

[00:25:53] That's the premise for a new book from Banda Barnes, Big Gun's Stupid Rednecks.

[00:25:59] I got a chance to see an advanced preview of this book and being from the south, honestly,

[00:26:03] I was a bit skeptical going in.

[00:26:04] But they won me over and nothing is more powerful than an initially skeptic convert in my book.

[00:26:09] In Jimmy's words, Big Gun's Stupid Rednecks is many things, but it isn't subtle.

[00:26:14] It tells you exactly what it is up front, then it delivers with a great premise, fantastic art,

[00:26:19] and a whole mess of fun.

[00:26:20] I had a great time reading Big Gun's Stupid Rednecks,

[00:26:23] and what I thought was going to be an indictment of redneck culture quickly showed it was actually

[00:26:28] a love letter.

[00:26:29] A family mystery, brother pitted against brother, aliens, fighting for profit in a big arena,

[00:26:34] this truly has it all.

[00:26:36] Issue one is out already, but you can still pick up a copy on the Band of Bards website,

[00:26:40] and current issues are available via your previews or lunar order form,

[00:26:43] or just ask your LCS.

[00:26:45] Don't miss it.

[00:26:45] Let's get back to the show.

[00:26:47] The other thing I wanted to talk about is, it hasn't come out yet,

[00:26:51] I think the first issue is going to be December 18th for Challengers of the Unknown?

[00:26:57] Yeah, we're a little up against it in terms of the timeline on that one,

[00:27:00] but it was a fun five-issue miniseries, and unlike Black Label and unlike Classic Man,

[00:27:07] this is the NFL of DC mainline continuity, so I kind of went into the deep end.

[00:27:16] I've dabbled in little things here and there with DC over the last few years,

[00:27:21] and I've had such a fun time playing in the background where I did a Challengers of the Unknown

[00:27:27] story in World's Finest, which is kind of Mark Waid's whole realm of stories from the past

[00:27:34] that are unknown, and I got to redo their origin in a kind of 10-page story that was part

[00:27:40] of the World's Finest annual issue, and I did a Batman story with Javier Rodriguez,

[00:27:48] not a Batman story, a Superman story with Javier Rodriguez in Batman Brave and the Bold.

[00:27:55] that was just kind of out of time. It was in continuity and checked certain boxes,

[00:28:01] but yeah, this one there dropping me into the big all-hands-on-deck, all-in,

[00:28:09] post-absolute power stuff. There was a lot of homework cramming I had to do to understand how

[00:28:17] this would work and how it would affect the Challengers story. The Challengers book that I

[00:28:22] pitched was always kind of structured this way in that what I love about the Challengers is,

[00:28:31] well, one, it's, it's the, what I love about the Challengers is the same thing I love about Patsy

[00:28:34] Walker and Marvel, is that they're heroes that are heroes precisely because they just choose to be.

[00:28:42] They don't have any powers. I know Patsy kind of comes in and out with, you know, mental powers and

[00:28:49] things like this, but we, by and large, she just decides she wants to be a hero. And the Challengers

[00:28:54] are the same way where they all survive a plane crash and decide they're living on borrowed time.

[00:29:01] And so they decided to devote the rest of that time to good and this idea of challenging the unknown

[00:29:06] and pushing boundaries. And it's this proto Jack Kirby creation that predates the Fantastic Four.

[00:29:13] You know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, a group of four initially, and then it grew to five.

[00:29:20] And there's been other members that have come in and out, but that core group, there are similar

[00:29:24] parallels to the Fantastic Four, but they're also quite different. And it's been really fun to drill

[00:29:33] into their personalities, each one of them, because there is this idea that they are living on borrowed

[00:29:41] time. And it's something that's said in the very first Challengers story, um, is that they feel like

[00:29:48] there's a, there's a little bit of a darkness to it. Not a, not a grimness, but a, but a like we,

[00:29:53] but a thought of like, we should be dead. It's so big kind of wake up with that. And what's fun is

[00:29:59] psychologically, each of them is wrestling with that idea. And I think first and foremost is, you know,

[00:30:06] Kyle Morgan or Ace Morgan is the elite, elite kind of, uh, member of the team. He was the pilot

[00:30:13] that, you know, put the plane into the side of the mountain. And, um, in my Challengers world's

[00:30:19] finest story and in the main book, um, and this is something that is harkens back a little bit to

[00:30:25] continuity as well. Um, is he wears, he wears the watch that he was wearing when the plane hit

[00:30:31] and the watch is broken, uh, and stopped at the moment of impact. Um, and so he wears it as a

[00:30:38] reminder that every second is borrowed and a gift and, um, he should make the most out of it,

[00:30:46] you know? And so he's this. And what I also love about the Challengers is that in addition to that

[00:30:52] psychology of waking up every day and going, man, I'm alive. That's, I'm very grateful to be alive.

[00:30:59] What will I do with this life that I've been given this second chance? Um, there's also this great,

[00:31:04] like petty science fiction, DC 50s, 60s, 70s kind of vibe to it. So some of it gets quite

[00:31:14] twilight zone-y in terms of the stuff they encounter. And you can really push the boundaries of

[00:31:19] the comic medium because you want to deliver on the premise of challenging the unknown, right? And so,

[00:31:26] visually, you want to see what does that look like? You know? And so, um, and, and what's also good

[00:31:32] is they're ordinary people coming up against it, right? So there's, it's just four, it's just four

[00:31:36] people. It's, it's five. There's, um, there's Ace Morgan. There's Prof Haley, who is kind of the

[00:31:42] professorial intellect scientist. There's a Red Ryan, who is some, I love their bios because they're so,

[00:31:48] they're so vestigial of the past. Like Red Ryan is, uh, an acrobat and also an electrical engineer.

[00:31:57] Sure. But I love it because he's like, this lean into that stuff sincerely. And then there's,

[00:32:01] um, and then there's, uh, Rocky who is a strong man, you know, he's an Olympic, he's a, he's a,

[00:32:08] uh, uh, Olympic wrestler, um, similar in the vein to, uh, Ben Grimm a little bit, maybe, you know,

[00:32:15] like you could see where Jack was going with that, but there's a fifth member that really stuck

[00:32:18] early on. And her name is, uh, June Robbins and, um, June I've retconned it a little bit, but in,

[00:32:27] in the, in the, I think even in the second issue, second appearance of the challengers and

[00:32:31] DC showcase seven, she's a roboticist. Um, she was not in the plane. So there's an interesting

[00:32:40] dynamic where she kind of gets it, this idea of borrowed time, but she's also a little bit more

[00:32:46] of a voice of reason and groundedness over here, which her whole thing is that she's very much

[00:32:51] involved with, and, and in my, my version built this robot called Ultivac, which is one of the best

[00:32:58] Kirby drawings ever. And it's the cover of, of showcase seven and Ultivac ultimately are was,

[00:33:07] was originally built for good and was this really amazing thinking robot. Um, and then, uh,

[00:33:13] eventually became the primary adversary of the challenges of the unknown. Oh, okay.

[00:33:19] And so what my book is playing around with in part, cause there's a lot of other moving pieces going on

[00:33:25] is, is how did that happen? Why did that happen? How do the challengers feel about that? Um, and how

[00:33:31] does June feel about that? Because in my version, she built Ultivac. And so, um, Ultivac is always this

[00:33:38] kind of other piece and this other side of the coin of the challenger's psychology. In the world's

[00:33:43] finest story I did, I wrote it as Ultivac was a member of the team because with Mark's stories

[00:33:48] in world's finest, these are stories of the past. So we got to do a story where Ultivac was a good guy.

[00:33:54] He was just along for the ride in this book. It'll it's now. So that's now, that's no longer true.

[00:33:59] And we're going to kind of catch up to a lot, but in tandem to all of that is dark side vanishing and

[00:34:07] the, the, the, the, the new incarnation of the justice league and the watchtower in orbit above

[00:34:14] the earth and all of these things. And so, um, what I, what I was trying to do is, is wed all of that

[00:34:22] together. And so where our book starts is the challengers are brought aboard the watchtower and

[00:34:29] they oversee operations of the watchtower. Now that it doesn't sound a lot like challenging of any

[00:34:35] unknown, but the reason why they're brought there is because when dark side kind of went poof,

[00:34:41] uh, they're there to investigate and see if it affected anything on the watchtower. And then lo

[00:34:47] and behold, what we learn in the first issue of our book is that even if the watchtower itself was

[00:34:53] not affected, there were places all over the earth and galaxy and universe that are now anomalous or

[00:35:02] different or, or, or tinged with something, um, post that event. And so they are sent out to investigate

[00:35:11] these things one by one. And it's a kind of divide and conquer thing where I always wanted to structure

[00:35:16] each issue around a single challenger. And so there's a single challenger going off and looking at something

[00:35:22] kind of externally weird and science fictional and unknown and bizarre having to do with dark side.

[00:35:28] Um, but then also having these kinds of moments of profound, um, introspection and self-doubt where

[00:35:37] they're really grappling with unknowns inside themselves at the same time. And so, uh, and then the last

[00:35:43] thing that DC had me do that got the pitch over is that in each issue, each challenger is paired with

[00:35:50] a more recognizable DC superhero. And it's cool. Cause we, you know, the, what they did was,

[00:35:59] you know, uh, Paul and Chris Rosa, uh, the editors, the way they got the pitch over the line was they

[00:36:05] had, they had Dan Mora draw Superman, Wonder Woman, and Bat, that man in challenges of the unknown

[00:36:13] uniforms, which is a very specific uniform. It's purple, yellow, and rich, very cool images. One of the

[00:36:19] variant covers of the first issue is Dan's original heart for that. And I think that alone, everyone was

[00:36:23] like, cool. Now, of course, like I had to figure out why, uh, cause they already have uniforms. They're

[00:36:31] already pretty cool. All right. There's this whole thing now where I was thematically able to dig into,

[00:36:40] okay, the challengers are now up on the watchtower, which is this giant space station that all the

[00:36:47] metahumans have put overseeing the earth. And there's a, there's a little bit of, uh,

[00:36:54] tension there of, you know, here are these living gods, um, in orbit above us in the sky,

[00:37:02] in the heavens. Right. And you know, and even the literal new gods are coming over and all these,

[00:37:07] and so like the challengers are just some folks. And so there's, there's this idea and there's,

[00:37:14] there's this, there's this, um, insecurity among the challengers, even just being on the watchtower

[00:37:21] where, you know, there goes Wally West and there's Hal Jordan who knows Kyle Morgan cause they're both

[00:37:26] pilots. And, uh, there's Mr. Terrific, the smartest person ever. And there's Wonder Woman,

[00:37:30] there's Batman who's Batman doesn't have any powers, but it's Batman. Like, yeah. And they're like,

[00:37:36] I'm a guy, you know, like Rocky. I mean, Rocky even is a little upset in the first issue because

[00:37:42] he's, he's working on the septic systems of the watchtower cause he doesn't have anything to do.

[00:37:47] But they literally have him cleaning the shitters. And it's like, he's like, well,

[00:37:52] I guess this is what, you know, and like Prof is, is involved in the Adam project, but like,

[00:37:56] they don't tell him anything like that. He's just like, I don't even know what it is. And so there's a lot

[00:38:01] of that, but then they're sent out to investigate these anomalies and they're paired with heroes.

[00:38:05] And then there's this constant, there's this constant, um, tension between the challenger

[00:38:11] and the hero because it's supposed to be a challengers of the unknown mission. And the reason

[00:38:16] why the heroes are wearing their suits is, is to protect against any potential residual omega energy.

[00:38:21] So they're especially outfitted, but the optics of it and choosing the colors of it

[00:38:26] is even discussed. Why did we do this? And it comes out that like, you know,

[00:38:31] Superman is like really aware of that. They don't want to be perceived as God's overseeing people.

[00:38:37] They want to be seen as working with people. And so this is a challenger's mission. You are human

[00:38:41] beings. We are in service of you. So I am wearing your colors on this mission, blah, blah, blah. Right.

[00:38:47] So we get to do all this fun stuff of unpacking this. And then, so it's the first issue is Ace and

[00:38:52] Superman. Second one is June and Batman and Aquaman, which is great. Um, the third one is Prof and the

[00:39:00] Adams. The fourth is Red and Hal Jordan. And then the fifth is Rocky and Wonder Woman.

[00:39:08] And it's also fun because people know this, that, you know, when they read my Marvel stuff

[00:39:13] or DC stuff, I love to pull random characters who haven't shown up in like 50 years into books. Like

[00:39:20] in Plastic Man No More, we have Dr. No Face and he's most notably showed up in like 1967.

[00:39:27] I like drew him exactly the same. It gave him the same flamethrower. And like, we use the first

[00:39:32] metal man, Uranium, who hasn't shown up in decades. But like, what I also try to do is in each

[00:39:38] challenger's issue is just because it, challengers are just like, so they're for people who love comic

[00:39:45] books. So I'm digging in and like, there are supporting characters from DC past. So, uh,

[00:39:51] I'm trying to think of, in one, uh, Martian Manhunters there in two, we get the sea devils,

[00:39:59] the scuba team. Um, we get, uh, in three, we get, uh, we get anthro, the caveman. Um,

[00:40:09] we also get, we get the new swamp thing. We get Levi for a second, you know, just to, we get,

[00:40:14] Richard Starr, Space Ranger and four, um, you know, it's just like little fun pops of. Oh yeah.

[00:40:22] That's a lot. You love to play with. If you're going to get to do it, do it. Right. So we just

[00:40:25] load it up, you know, that's the idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the channel, I mean, I, I'm not super

[00:40:31] familiar with the challengers. I mean, I know that that was reading up. Yes. What? That's most people.

[00:40:37] It's always funny when DC starts another challengers book and people are like, what is this?

[00:40:41] It's just like, usually somebody is crazy inside the organization and it's like, okay,

[00:40:46] let's do it. You know? Yeah. I mean, well, I know when the new, I guess it was the new 52

[00:40:50] came out and they did the DC, what was it? DC universe presents. And like the first, the

[00:40:57] first half was about dead man. And then the second half was about the challengers, but it was

[00:41:02] a very different origin. I think it was Dan, um, the Dio and, uh, Jerry Ordway. And they

[00:41:08] did like they were, yeah. So my buddies, my buddies Jackson Lansing and Colin Kelly just,

[00:41:16] just sell with those challengers in their, are they doing the authority? Is that the book?

[00:41:23] It's something like that they're doing something that is essentially that kind of quality of,

[00:41:27] um, yeah, they, they gave them some sort of gruesome end or something, but what's nice

[00:41:33] about, what's nice about, um, the all in event is that this thing has happened with dark side

[00:41:42] and it has affected things in a really strange way. And in ways people don't yet even fully

[00:41:48] realize. So, you know, my kids and I were laughing. I've got three kids and my, my two oldest,

[00:41:55] the oldest is a boy. We were, I was joking about how any kind of choice I make within reason,

[00:42:02] I could say, well, it's because dark side died and you can just say, you know, be like, well,

[00:42:07] wait, but what happened to other shows? Oh, well, there's the dark side died. You know,

[00:42:10] like, and so people don't even realize like, well, wait, weren't there different challenges

[00:42:13] now dark side? Oh, okay. Yeah. You know, it's like, and so you get, when you get something

[00:42:17] like that, it is a little bit of a gift as a storyteller to be like, oh, okay, I can reset

[00:42:21] blah, blah, blah. And listen, they're doing crazy stuff with all the other main hero books

[00:42:27] in the, in the main universe, you know, to say nothing of the absolute universe, which

[00:42:31] is a whole other thing and amazing. Right. But if all reasons, that they're very nicely.

[00:42:37] Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I can't wait to see it because one of the things I was excited

[00:42:40] about, you know, even though I'm not super familiar with the challengers, whenever they bring

[00:42:46] something that has a story history. And I, I mean, I think, you know, you mentioned

[00:42:50] Jack Kirby and I think showcase number six was their first appearance from back in 1957.

[00:42:54] But I like that. I, those comic books from that time period are, are interesting. Like when

[00:43:03] you compare them to today's comics, but I, I enjoy that really heavy, like sci-fi influence.

[00:43:09] Like I love that time period where like some of the techno babbled stuff is like kind of wild.

[00:43:14] Oh yeah. I'm all over that. I love that stuff. And especially because I, I, the, I was thinking

[00:43:20] when you were talking about it and some of the weird stuff you can do. Um, if, if listeners,

[00:43:26] if you aren't familiar, the book you did with INJ Colbert, everything. Oh yeah. That is,

[00:43:31] that is.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:38] The thing I tell people now about that book is I wrote a lot of that book when I was on

[00:43:41] mushrooms, which is incredible. And I think you can tell, you know, like it's, uh, I was really

[00:43:46] experimenting not with micro dosing, but with macro dosing. And it's like that book, but I will say

[00:43:51] that I think that book really holds up. And I think digging deep into some of that science fictional

[00:43:56] stuff is fun. And like, you know, I'm sure people, you know, give me knocks all the time for things like

[00:44:01] this, like, you know, uh, you know, this idea of deconstructing superheroes and, you know, that can

[00:44:07] be a tired trope in and of itself. These days, you were talking about the grittiness that goes all

[00:44:10] the way back to the nineties. Um, even though we love some of those stories and, um, I really do love

[00:44:17] all of these heroes that I've written. And I think, you know, Iron Man, especially and, and doom,

[00:44:22] but like, you know, you look at a book like plastic man or blue flame, and it really is taking a lens

[00:44:27] to the person and kind of dismantling them and seeing what remains challengers is not necessarily

[00:44:35] that, which is it's because it's in mainline continuity and, and they all, they all get to

[00:44:43] have a crisis of conscience. I can't not write that. I did. It's fun because also like that idea of

[00:44:48] challenging the unknown within yourself just was too alluring for me. So, but each episode,

[00:44:52] each episode, each issue, it feels like a twilight zone episode. That's the ideas that they're,

[00:44:58] they're going through, but they're also encountering things of like, you know, um,

[00:45:04] indestructible glass surfaces and mountain sides on Mars and like, um, sentient asteroids. And like,

[00:45:11] and because it's, because it's like the challengers and DC and main universe, like we invented me and,

[00:45:19] uh, and Sean is asking the artist, like we invented, uh, a justice league,

[00:45:24] a justice league jet that is augmented by the speed force. So it's like, you just get to do,

[00:45:30] yeah, you know, and on the name that and then name the jet. And I think we named the jet.

[00:45:34] Oh, what are we, I think it's the JL six 57 because it's referencing DC showcase six from 1950.

[00:45:43] So it's like, you know, we're just doing shit like that. It's like, right. We put a lot of thought

[00:45:48] and emotion into the drama and character, but it's like, we're also doing, you know, this kind of,

[00:45:54] but just, it's fun. Cause I think challengers is very akin to weird fantasy and weird science from

[00:46:02] EC comics, right? Like that it's up. It's, it was a few years later, but it's, it's very much of the

[00:46:07] same era. Some, even the same artists, you know, come over and, and are still drawn weirdo alien

[00:46:12] monsters and stuff. And here are normal dudes trying to deal with it. And that's, that's very evocative

[00:46:18] of that early EC period. So trying to bring something to do. Yeah. Yeah. And I was speaking

[00:46:23] of that real quick. You, um, I think it was a cruel universe number two. Uh, you had Raygun,

[00:46:29] right? You did a story in that. Was that also with Alex? Uh, no, that was, um, oh gosh,

[00:46:34] she's that. Oh man. Who is Reagan? The Reagan artist is, uh, sorry. He's, uh, he's so good too.

[00:46:41] Um, I, I'm gonna, I'm going to get his name right here. It's, it's, it's David. What's his name?

[00:46:47] I can't think of his last name. Um, it's, it's David Laugham. Um, he did so good. And, uh,

[00:46:56] yeah, that was a ring story. That's a story that had been kicking out of my head for probably the

[00:47:00] better part of seven years or so. Um, but about a cowboy who finds her, finds a Raygun in it,

[00:47:05] in it, you know, I, I, I went through a bunch of EC over the last two years and was just reading

[00:47:12] them cover to cover these collections that they put out. And, um, and then lo and behold,

[00:47:16] Hunter goes and brings it back in some amazing way. Um, but I really hope to use some more stories

[00:47:23] for them, stories that I actually have put forth that have been approved to just kind of waiting

[00:47:27] for them to slot in a schedule wise for them. And, um, I want to do something for the,

[00:47:32] is it cruel kingdom, which is a fantasy one. I have.

[00:47:35] I think that's the next one they're doing. Cause the burst bone was what tales,

[00:47:39] tales of the abyss. There's a epitaphs of the abyss and the universe. And then, uh,

[00:47:43] there's a special crime one that's coming in Christmas time. And I hope that one continues

[00:47:48] on because the crime ones are really fun, but yeah, they've been great. I had for listeners

[00:47:51] of the podcast, you might remember I had, I had Hunter, uh, Goranson on and,

[00:47:55] and, um, Chris Condon and Peter Krauss were on with the, by the three of them right

[00:48:00] before it came out. Oh man, it was fantastic. Getting to chat with them.

[00:48:04] All of his have been so good for it. He's just one of my favorite writers ever. He

[00:48:08] and I are good buds, but yeah, I love, I love what only does. I have to say like,

[00:48:13] they just really pay attention to the medium and really love the medium so well.

[00:48:18] I have a book that will be announced with them at the end of the month that's coming

[00:48:23] out in the spring. And I think it's, I it's, I think it's the best comic I've gotten to be a part

[00:48:29] of. Um, the artist on it, I don't want to spoil anything, but has been, um, hand painting it for,

[00:48:36] um, a year plus and it's, it's five issues and it's, it's very grounded, very different,

[00:48:43] um, very dramatic story. Um, it's not, there's no, um, there's no speed force augmented jets in it,

[00:48:50] but, uh, it's a very human story. Um, kind of inspired by historical events, inspired by, um,

[00:48:58] there's a John Steinbeck book of short stories called Pastures of Heaven that I've always loved.

[00:49:03] Uh, and it's about a family in the Central Valley in California through the generations and how they're

[00:49:09] kind of maybe curse and just these, these things, they can't escape fate. And so it's about faded

[00:49:16] people in bucolic kind of Steinbeck, California. And it's gory. Art is unbelievable. And, uh,

[00:49:25] it's the first time I've actually adapted myself in reverse, um, where it was a pilot I wrote five

[00:49:31] years ago and took around a couple of places and nothing happened with it. Um, and I, I brought it

[00:49:38] to best Polaris at ONI last comic-con in 2023 and we talked about it and, uh, and then, and it turned

[00:49:46] into this book and I, and I, I just think it, the book is better than any show I could have realized

[00:49:51] out of this thing. So I'm, I'm really excited for that one to be in there. Well, I'm look, I'm looking

[00:49:57] forward to it. I'll, I'll make sure there's links to, um, where folks can find you and, uh, you know,

[00:50:01] in the show notes. So we'll know when, when that comes out and, uh, real, real, real quick,

[00:50:06] cause you had mentioned Jackson, uh, Lansing and Colin Kelly. Did I see recently announced that

[00:50:11] you're also going to be part of IDW's lore war? Yeah, no, I mean, I'm so Star Trek is funny

[00:50:17] cause Star Trek is like, cause I have, I have these creator, uh, you know, uh, once in a while pop out

[00:50:23] and do some crazy thing for, you know, Marvel where I did Thanos or, or I'm doing classic manner

[00:50:28] challengers, but, uh, and now you've done the defiant book for, right? Yeah, I've been doing,

[00:50:33] so I've been doing Star Trek to find, I've been doing, I've been part of the interconnected

[00:50:36] Star Trek comics universe for almost two years now. And I think, um, you know, where

[00:50:45] with those, those, those, we already did one big crossover event last summer, which was great

[00:50:50] called day of blood. Um, and we really got to have a writer's room with that, which was Jackson

[00:50:54] Colin, the Heather Antos, the editor. Um, and then we did it again and it will build to this second

[00:51:01] big kind of apotheosis of a crossover event called lore war, which is, it's going to be great.

[00:51:08] And David Tinto is drawing it and it looks so good. Um, but yeah, on defiant, it's funny. Defiant

[00:51:15] will lead up into lower war and I'm still working with on hell on the weta on, um, defiant. And he

[00:51:21] I've been together since I think the last, the last arc of Iron Man, he was full time as the artist

[00:51:28] and he started, I think the first fill in issue he did of Iron Man was number eight of my run.

[00:51:34] Um, so I've been working with on hell longer than I've been working with any artist ever.

[00:51:37] And it's consistent and Star Trek comics are funny cause it's Star Trek comics are like how I

[00:51:44] thought comics would be, which is here's a two year commitment. And we're going to do

[00:51:50] 25 issues or more and annuals and this and crossover event one and crossover event two.

[00:51:56] And it's all interconnected. And, um, it's been a, uh, that the, the IDW space has been

[00:52:03] really wonderful. And, and I love working with Heather so much. And, um, you know, it was always

[00:52:09] my dream to write Trek. I'm a huge Star Trek fan. And the way Jackson puts it is you're,

[00:52:13] you're playing for a small room with Star Trek, but it's a room that's really paying attention.

[00:52:16] And so, uh, the fans have been very supportive of it and the readership has been, has been strong

[00:52:23] and consistent throughout. So, you know, I get to go off and do my, my little weird spirit walks of,

[00:52:29] um, creator own books, whether it's this only one or Briar, which is, uh, going to come back

[00:52:35] eventually next year. Or I got my vault book coming out at the end of this year that I did with

[00:52:39] Victor Santos, kid Maroon, you know, these things that percolate for years in the back of my head,

[00:52:44] but, but, but yeah, the, the, the Star Trek license work has been great just because it's been

[00:52:51] steady and you don't feel like your hair's on fire and everybody's cool. And, um, yeah. And

[00:53:01] Colin and Jackson and I all just happened to be in LA. And so we can just get together and jam on

[00:53:06] this stuff and make it interconnected and special. I don't want to put you on the spot, but, um,

[00:53:11] just cause I'm curious, my, my favorite Trek is next generation. Do you have a favorite episode?

[00:53:18] Oh yeah. No, I mean, listen, I, I can pull that stuff up for you right now. So I, I did a,

[00:53:23] I did a rewatch of the original series during the pandemic with my, uh, two oldest kids. Cause it

[00:53:28] was on, it was on six nights a week while they were getting ready for bed. So we watched all of that.

[00:53:33] Oh wow. And they were, they saw abs for next gen. They were like, well, what's that?

[00:53:37] And so we did a full watch of next gen, um, uh, on DVD with my, um, my two oldest. Um,

[00:53:47] we did all seven seasons. We did the movies. So yeah. So my favorite next gen episode is

[00:53:54] inner light, which doesn't work where that's mine. Is that yours? I see. I mean, it's the most perfect,

[00:54:00] we're talking about science fiction and stuff from like the fifties, right? I mean, it is,

[00:54:03] is the perfect science fiction parable. You know what I mean? It's, it's, he's these unconscious

[00:54:10] for 20 minutes and lives a 75 year life and it with a species that went extinct. And this is how

[00:54:15] they pass on the knowledge of who they were. And it's funny because that show wasn't very serialized.

[00:54:21] They would drop stuff and it would never come back. But there's a piece of that episode that is,

[00:54:26] that makes its way through all seven seasons, which is he knows how to play that flute.

[00:54:30] I have a boy work a while, find him playing that flute and it's so great.

[00:54:34] Yeah. One, one year at Baltimore comic-con I go to cause I'm in Delaware. So I go to Baltimore

[00:54:39] the past couple of years, but one year I got, um, Caitlin Yarsky was there and I love her work.

[00:54:45] And I have a print of Picard with the flute that Caitlin did.

[00:54:51] It walked past her table. I wanted to get her to sign. I think it was a copy of bliss,

[00:54:56] um, that she had done the art for. And, and, um, yeah, I saw it and I was like,

[00:55:01] is that from the inner light? Yeah. I'm like sold.

[00:55:04] That's great. I mean, what a great artist to draw that too. It's so good. It's, uh, it's great.

[00:55:10] Yeah. I think inner light birthright, the story about war of cart one and two are so good.

[00:55:16] Um, and then you go to the original series. It's like city on the edge of forever.

[00:55:20] The graphic novel adaptation of the original Harlow Ellison screenplay is so good.

[00:55:24] Balance of terror is like a perfect episode of TV. Just aside from Star Trek. I mean,

[00:55:28] it's just wonderful. It's wonderful stuff. So to play in that world is great.

[00:55:32] Yeah. Well, uh, looking forward to it and, uh, yeah, Chris, this has been a phenomenal.

[00:55:37] I thank you so much for, for being available, being able to do this. I'm excited, uh, to get the,

[00:55:42] the issue for plastic man, no more. Uh, I can't wait to see what you do with, um,

[00:55:48] challenges of the unknown and yeah, we'll, we'll look forward to this only book and listeners.

[00:55:52] If you haven't read, uh, the blue flame or everything, um, I would definitely check those

[00:55:58] out, but also Briar and, uh, she could fly are well worth, uh, your, your time. Uh, so.

[00:56:05] Thank you so much. Thank you. I think this has been fun. Thanks man. Yeah. My, no, my, my pleasure.

[00:56:12] All right. Uh, listeners, uh, let us know if you, uh, you know what you're reading. Um,

[00:56:17] tell us if we're doing a good job. I like to hear that. I am remember I'm Irish Italian and

[00:56:20] a half golden retriever. So I like to be told when I do a good job, uh, thank you very much

[00:56:25] for listening. I'll see you next time. This is Byron O'Neill. One of your hosts

[00:56:30] of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed

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[00:56:42] how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.

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