Dakota Brown Interview - Death Comes For The Toymaker

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:10] Have you ever been to a martial arts tournament like this?

[00:00:13] When I was a kid, there was a used bookstore in town. I begged my mom to drop me off all the time. They had a loose stack of comics that I used to thumb through searching for secret gold.

[00:00:21] One day, I came across Daredevil 189. That's that Frank Miller cover that's iconic with DD flying through the air and a hail of arrows.

[00:00:28] The book was a complete snobber knocker throwdown with the hand and Sticks sacrifices himself to save Matt at the end.

[00:00:35] Ever since that moment, I have loved martial arts comic books.

[00:00:38] So when fellow Yeti Alex Green reached out about his Kickstarter project From Within, I was excited to find out more about it.

[00:00:44] It's a 240 page martial arts revenge graphic novel about a slave fighting his way through a deadly tournament where the rules shift according to the whims of, you guessed it, a tyrannical emperor.

[00:00:55] Full of high impact fight sequences, it's sure to delight any fan of action focused fiction.

[00:01:00] Artist Renzo Podesta kills the genre. See what I did there? And the whole project is already complete.

[00:01:06] So the hardest part, the one that makes you wait, is already done.

[00:01:09] Bounce on over to Kickstarter and search for From Within.

[00:01:12] That's it. I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. Make sure to check it out.

[00:01:19] Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again.

[00:01:22] Ben, I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media.

[00:01:29] My bad.

[00:01:30] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know, and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing.

[00:01:37] Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess?

[00:01:45] It was then that I discovered Arkham Forge. If you don't know who Arkham Forge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive.

[00:01:54] Allowing you to build, play and export animated maps, including in-person Fog of War capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture.

[00:02:07] Now I'm set to easily build high res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign.

[00:02:14] That's a win every day in my book.

[00:02:16] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off.

[00:02:22] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you.

[00:02:24] And big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show.

[00:02:27] I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:02:32] Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode of the cryptic creator corner.

[00:02:36] I'm Byron O'Neill, your host for today's comics creator chat.

[00:02:39] I'm joined by a returning guest and a comics writer, Dakota Brown.

[00:02:42] Last time we were talking about Grandma Tilly's Hell Tech Mech,

[00:02:46] and I've gotten fingers and toes crossed this time that death comes for the toy maker.

[00:02:51] We'll finally see the full light of publication glory after first undergoing some growing pains,

[00:02:57] first on Kickstarter and then with Scout.

[00:03:00] There's some perseverance tied to this one, but that's frankly nothing new in the world of any comics these days.

[00:03:05] And I have loved this book ever since I got a peek at it in late 2021.

[00:03:10] The collected trade is being released in early November, as far as I understand it,

[00:03:14] and features the artistic talents of Ryan Cody and lettering by the talented Micah Myers,

[00:03:19] who letters just an absolute ton of stuff.

[00:03:22] I don't know how it's time to do all that.

[00:03:23] Let's get into it. Dakota, how have you been? How are you doing?

[00:03:26] I've been well. It's fascinating to hear that.

[00:03:29] I think you were the first reviewer of Toymaker just in general,

[00:03:34] and it is wild to hear that that was in late 2021 because that actually gives me a full timeline of things.

[00:03:40] And most of my life is judged based on that timeline.

[00:03:45] And now I have the numbers in my head to judge it.

[00:03:48] But yeah, it seems like every time we talk, there's a new update on Death Comes for the Toymaker and its release schedule.

[00:03:57] From you first reading it to now, my wife and I had time to have a son who is now two years old.

[00:04:04] Yeah. So there's a lot of milestones related to that.

[00:04:08] It's fascinating to have the book tied to so much of my life just by it being, you know, more or less the same age as my child in a lot of ways.

[00:04:19] So hopefully by the time he's able to read, it is on shelves and ready to go.

[00:04:26] Fingers crossed.

[00:04:27] Yes. But I think there's only one place to start with this interview.

[00:04:29] And I know how big of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan you are.

[00:04:32] So how are you liking the new series thus far?

[00:04:35] I haven't gotten to it just yet.

[00:04:37] It's definitely on my radar, on my list.

[00:04:39] When I found out that Jason Aaron was going to be the one writing it, I was thrilled because I think a lot of his run at Marvel has been my absolute favorite.

[00:04:53] His Avengers run was fascinating.

[00:04:58] His Thor run is obviously incredible, but he got on my radar with Original Sin, the crossover murder mystery, essentially, that, you know, I've heard different reviews back and forth, but it's one of my favorites of recent years just because it's so just into the Marvel universe.

[00:05:21] Not cinematic, obviously.

[00:05:24] And just a lot of twists and turns.

[00:05:26] Every issue ends with a cliffhanger that you have to know the answer to.

[00:05:29] So I was thrilled to find out he was writing it, but I've got quite a bit of catching up to do.

[00:05:33] I've got up to volume 13 in the hardbacks of the original IDW run.

[00:05:40] And it's about time to restart and catch up.

[00:05:44] Obviously, Last Ronin was incredible in every subsequent miniseries and sequel to it.

[00:05:52] But I'm looking forward to going from beginning to end with the IDW running, catching up to where we are now.

[00:06:01] So I apologize.

[00:06:02] I don't have much to say about it other than I am wildly excited to hop into it.

[00:06:08] That is so ambitious to go back and read all the older IDW stuff.

[00:06:13] I don't have the patience to do it, honestly.

[00:06:17] That's a ton of material.

[00:06:18] But it is, but it's quality stuff.

[00:06:21] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[00:06:22] Sure. Yeah.

[00:06:23] I mean, I love the new iteration here.

[00:06:25] I'm kind of predisposed to like the new stuff because we started with RAF, right?

[00:06:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:31] But I feel like it's a really good jumping on point and shifting the art to kind of reintroduce the boys in their own standalone stories before they reconnect.

[00:06:40] I feel like it was a really, really good idea to give them kind of a new sense of identity.

[00:06:45] But yeah.

[00:06:46] Yeah.

[00:06:46] Well, when you get a chance, I want to hear about what you think.

[00:06:49] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:49] That'll probably be in the next month or so.

[00:06:51] So I'll hit you up on social medias and let you know.

[00:06:55] Cool. Sounds good.

[00:06:56] Well, I saw something else on social media a couple of days ago about a pitch being approved or something for you.

[00:07:02] I'm sure you can't go into detail right now, but congratulations.

[00:07:05] Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:07:07] Can you say if it's comics related?

[00:07:08] I know you're working at the medium.

[00:07:09] It is, yeah. It's a four-issue miniseries that will be in 2025.

[00:07:22] Okay.

[00:07:22] That's the extent of it.

[00:07:25] If you follow me on social media, there's a few pitches I've shared that up till then hasn't really seen the light of day outside of the pitch materials, but it's one of those.

[00:07:37] Okay.

[00:07:38] If anybody wants to go through my Twitter or X page, it's Twitter, my Twitter page, and look through pictures of old pitches and speculate, I'd be interested to hear which one you thought was picked up.

[00:07:53] Nice.

[00:07:54] Well, all right.

[00:07:55] Death Comes for the Toymaker is finally getting the hands of readers and I'm personally excited about that.

[00:08:00] I don't think we get in all the whys of its publication journey, but how are you feeling about now that finding its home at Magma Comics where you can finally share the full story with the world?

[00:08:12] Yeah, it's bizarre.

[00:08:14] It's bizarre. There's a lot of imposter syndrome that is hard not to battle because the cast of creators at Magma that they've picked up and have releasing comics this year and next is wild.

[00:08:31] The incredible biographies on their team page and their, and mine's a little, little bitty biography.

[00:08:38] It has some like, maybe some theater stuff and some just life goings on.

[00:08:43] Um, but it was, it, it was all in the timing. Honestly, it's, it's, I'm, I was very excited to hear that they enjoyed, uh, the series.

[00:08:55] Um, and my understanding, it was a unanimous decision to bring it on, not as a series, but as a graphic novel, um, which they're presenting as a, um, a graphic novel.

[00:09:07] That's PG 13 ish for teens. So, um, already we've gotten it into once it's released, it's going to be in libraries, both public and school.

[00:09:16] And my understanding is, uh, prison libraries as well. So there's a lot of, um, new audiences that I would have never thought about. Um, and obviously, uh, the big push with getting, or one of the pluses with getting with a publisher is, uh, the connections that they might not, that they have that I might not have.

[00:09:36] Um, and this team being, you know, former IDW, uh, team, uh, has literal Rolodexes, physical Rolodexes. I've seen them on calls or actual index card Rolodexes, uh, of connections.

[00:09:51] They have both in creative fields, publication. Um, like I said, the libraries recently, they had me speak at a library conference about graphic novels, specifically about Toymaker, um, which was a blast.

[00:10:03] It's, um, it's, um, it's opening up a lot of avenues and thoughts that again, I never would have thought of.

[00:10:09] They've made a lot of connections already. Some that are happening in the near future that, um, would blow away the mind of, you know, six year old Dakota Brown based on, uh, what they're saying might, might happen in the future.

[00:10:29] Um, but yeah, more than anything, it's, uh, it's a wild blessing. And like I said, it's all timing because when, um, I received my rights back from Scout Comics, um, the writing was kind of on the wall there.

[00:10:41] I had, uh, uh, some draft emails ready to go. And, you know, once that termination agreement was signed both ways, it was clicks in, clicks in, clicks in.

[00:10:50] Um, and there were, there were a few interested parties, um, but Magma presented something.

[00:10:58] I couldn't, uh, not accept. It was, uh, thrilling. So yeah, it's being released as a graphic novel through them for, for teens and young adult readers.

[00:11:10] Um, but it's actually seen the light of day, uh, in, on November 6th in comic stores and November 19th, I believe in retailers.

[00:11:18] Um, so just the fact that I've seen the, uh, uh, digital proofs of it is, uh, uh, uh, thrilling beyond, uh, understanding.

[00:11:29] Oddly, I can actually see this being quite the hit in prison libraries. I, I, that is an avenue. I just, I have never considered.

[00:11:36] You said that and I was like, whoa, okay. All right.

[00:11:39] Yeah. It's, it's, I think it, it's a very introspective, uh, piece because I think we talked about it in the past.

[00:11:46] It's about, you know, uh, the time we have and how we spend it. Um, and just that level of introspection with, um, you know, somebody who might be a member of the prison population or a young adult, uh, or anyone really.

[00:11:59] It's, it's, it's, it's, I think those moments of introspection are, are incredible and, uh, uh, uh, just being reminded of how powerful they can be.

[00:12:08] Hopefully that's one of the benefits of the, the, the book is just taking, remembering to take that time to, you know, look inward and see how that's affecting your outward life.

[00:12:20] Um, so any, any kind of, um, new, uh, avenue or population or demographic that could benefit from that is very exciting.

[00:12:36] Yeah. Well, getting into the book itself, there aren't many better cover images to catch people's attention before the holidays than Santa throwing down with the grim reaper.

[00:12:45] Uh, but this isn't just your kind of normal dose of holiday candy. There's a classic Santa figure here.

[00:12:51] Who's actually Gilgamesh or Gil in the story from Mesopotamian mythology.

[00:12:55] And that mythological root is the backdrop from which the story expands to encompass various elements of kind of a lot of our American holiday traditions.

[00:13:04] So what was the germ of wanting to utilize those two things as your narrative tag team, if you will?

[00:13:11] Well, it was, um, it was kind of complete happenstance, honestly, because I wanted to, this was going to be my first comic.

[00:13:18] I wanted it to be something that, uh, people see on the shelves and, uh, want to pull off the shelf.

[00:13:24] So there's in comics, especially in any comics, there's a big, uh, um, community of creations that are, you know, public domain characters in like a new genre.

[00:13:37] So, you know, this, this classic princess character, the snow white battling this kind of monster or in space and things like that.

[00:13:46] So I wanted to be able to have recognizable characters because that's a big push automatically.

[00:13:52] Um, and was surprised to find out that there hadn't been a, a major story about Santa Claus and death.

[00:14:02] And I don't know why it, it seemed like a very inevitable, uh, story of, you know, this immortal character who gets his, uh, immortality from a deal with death.

[00:14:13] So he has to, um, as the, you know, gift giver for his universe, um, uh, he has this nice list, this naughty list and this death list.

[00:14:22] So, um, he was just doing the work of death and got tired of it.

[00:14:28] And that was, you know, that was the main thing, but I also wanted to, uh, throw as much spaghetti at the wall as I could.

[00:14:35] And I wanted to play with mythologies.

[00:14:38] Um, but eventually it became this melange of mythologies that was like, there was a lot of Native American lore, which I love.

[00:14:47] There was a lot of, um, you know, Pacific Asian, there was a lot of African lore because I'm fascinated by it, but it became this too much like, uh, you know, American gods or Nancy boys.

[00:15:00] It felt like it had existed in that sense.

[00:15:02] Um, and it was honestly just too much to handle, uh, myself.

[00:15:06] I don't have the mental capability to juggle that much.

[00:15:09] I don't think, um, but I'd fallen in love with the Mesopotamian mythos, uh, specifically the creation story.

[00:15:15] So I knew I wanted to have like this started with a Mesopotamian, uh, creation myth.

[00:15:21] Uh, but then just exploring that, I discovered a lot of similarities in the Santa Claus figure I wanted to explore and Gilgamesh from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[00:15:33] So it became a very, very easy, uh, path forward once realizing that these are the same character, uh, Santa Claus as he was, he was just originally named Nick.

[00:15:44] Um, but he eventually just became Gil the Toymaker.

[00:15:47] Um, and everything just started moving forward very quickly after that.

[00:15:51] Um, and then just toying with modern day and flashbacks.

[00:15:55] It, uh, uh, it became a pretty smooth ride, honestly.

[00:15:59] Okay.

[00:16:00] When we originally spoke back in 2021, I hadn't seen everything just, you know, part of the first issue.

[00:16:05] This didn't go actually at all where I anticipated it might more than anything else on my own read.

[00:16:10] This is a story about friendship and our relationships stand the test of time or, or in some cases don't.

[00:16:16] So how did you settle on Gil and Enkidu as frenemies as kind of your main through line for this time spanning tale?

[00:16:25] Well, a lot of that comes from the source material.

[00:16:27] Um, because Enkidu, um, Enkidu was created by the gods to become this challenger for Gilgamesh.

[00:16:35] Um, so he, he was his equal in every way and they battled and then instead of, you know, destroying each other or humbling each other or, or what have you, uh, ended up finding this camaraderie in each other.

[00:16:49] And you can see in the epic before Enkidu's death, um, that, uh, there's this kind of shift in their, uh, characters where Gilgamesh goes from this, um, yeah, he's a prideful king, but he's, he's got a little bit of class.

[00:17:03] He's got a little bit of, um, a little bit of honor to him maybe, um, but very prideful, very hubris filled.

[00:17:11] Uh, and Enkidu is this literal beast man, uh, you know, described various ways and different versions of the myth.

[00:17:18] Um, we depict him with horns and hooves and goat legs.

[00:17:24] Um, but you see this shift between them after that battle where Enkidu is introduced to society by Gilgamesh, uh, both to, um, you know, Gilgamesh's concubines and, you know, dinners and just society in general as Gilgamesh saw it.

[00:17:43] Um, and then hanging out with him more Gilgamesh kind of becomes more, uh, id driven almost.

[00:17:51] He becomes the beast that Enkidu was created to be for Gilgamesh.

[00:17:56] So there's this very real shift.

[00:18:00] Um, so it, I found it interesting.

[00:18:02] I thought it would be really fun to explore the fact that maybe that shift becomes so extreme that, um, you know, Enkidu is this just polite friend.

[00:18:13] Uh, even in death when he becomes, uh, I guess spoiler here.

[00:18:17] I haven't mentioned it.

[00:18:18] Enkidu becomes death, uh, the embodiment of death himself, the grim reaper.

[00:18:22] Um, so even in this new role, you know, hunting souls and having this deal with Gil, he's still very much, uh, a polite friend who wants to hang out and have a good time.

[00:18:32] But Gil is this, um, pride, pride driven, uh, monster of immortality who just wants, uh, nothing to do with his friend anymore.

[00:18:42] Um, but it's kind of an exploration of, um, obviously that friendship, but the shifts that we see, um, over time in our lives with our friends and how you, one might not see that relationship anymore like the other one does.

[00:19:00] Um, and hopefully that it took six issues to it to get to that point, but hopefully that, uh, that comes across.

[00:19:08] Yeah.

[00:19:09] One of the interesting aspects about Gil is his overall dissatisfaction with life as an immortal, which runs counter to the Santa jolly old soul laughing all the time image that we're familiar with.

[00:19:20] Is that just an instance of wanting to take genre and flip it around?

[00:19:24] Or is that something you were personally dealing with now that you are actually a Highlander, just the opportunity to explore the gilded prison of sorts that many Americans find their themselves in their lives.

[00:19:35] Currently that by human history standards and current world standards, which should be the envy of all, but so many people just seem to be unhappy.

[00:19:45] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] I think it's not a new story in that sense of, you know, a character finding immortality and then being cursed with, um, the same feelings that they had as immortal and not being able to, um, reach that point that they were looking for in their mortality through immortality.

[00:20:07] Um, it, it, it really is being, instead of, you know, processing your moment, um, having, it's just stretching out more of that moment and, uh, it's unprocessed and it's, uh, elongated.

[00:20:23] So for Gil, it's this dissatisfaction with his life that he found, um, you know, back in the days of, um, being the king of Uruk, uh, in ancient Samaria.

[00:20:37] Um, so it's been, you know, 4,000, 5,000 years since then in our story.

[00:20:43] Um, but he still has that same feeling, this immortality that he did gain eventually, um, not in the original source material, not in the Epic of Gilgamesh, but in the version we tell.

[00:20:53] Um, despite having that, um, he's still living that same moment over and over again.

[00:21:01] Um, and what transpires is this, you know, I'm going to use the phrase hero's journey because you can't when it's, you can't not when it's the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[00:21:13] I know it's a contrived idea, but he was the original hero's journey.

[00:21:17] So this new version of the hero's journey that, um, you know, continues right after the end of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[00:21:24] Um, he goes out and he's, you know, fighting awful, terrifying creatures and, uh, making deals he didn't want to make and, um, confronting, uh, friends and foes alike in ways that are very, uh, that have new shifts, uh, in those relationships.

[00:21:45] Um, but at the end of the day, it might not have really been necessary.

[00:21:52] Um, because he's, he's, he's living in this moment.

[00:21:55] He's been living for literally thousands of years.

[00:21:58] Um, maybe there was an easier path forward.

[00:22:01] Um, maybe it would have been a little anticlimactic to a story.

[00:22:06] Um, but being able to see the climax as a reader, hopefully the goal is for a reader to see this climax and yeah, kind of see it as, you know, action packed and exciting.

[00:22:20] And bloody and, you know, a battlefield of gods and demons.

[00:22:25] Um, but at the end kind of, yeah, kind of anticlimactic because maybe all of this could have been done with a conversation thousands of years ago or, you know, just, uh, it's a, it's a much less interesting story.

[00:22:38] But, um, at the end of the day, it does to me kind of feel like an extension of, you know, Gil's hubris, of Gilgamesh's hubris once he becomes Gil.

[00:22:49] Uh, and how so much of, you know, a traditional hero's story, hero's journey.

[00:22:55] Cause we're always, you know, hero's journey is you go out, you leave your cave, you refuse it at first, you go, but you, you get this potion, you bring it back, you lose the potion, whatever.

[00:23:02] And you find out that the, uh, uh, the real potion was at home all along.

[00:23:06] That's the, you know, the big, um, big story there.

[00:23:09] And I, I think that's the case for Gilgamesh originally and, uh, Gil, when he becomes Gil the toy maker, it's, uh, maybe a little introspection would have saved a lot of trouble.

[00:23:24] And a lot of hurt with other people too.

[00:23:26] Yeah.

[00:23:27] All right, let's take a quick break.

[00:23:37] After a string of unexplained disappearances in the Southern parts of the United States, retired detective Clint searches for his white trash brother.

[00:23:45] While searching for him, he ends up being abducted by aliens.

[00:23:49] He is now in the arena for big guns, stupid rednecks, an intergalactic cable's newest hit show, which puts him and other humans in laser gun gladiatorial combat.

[00:23:59] And his brother is the reigning champion with 27 kills.

[00:24:04] That's the premise for a new book from Banda Barnes, big guns, stupid rednecks.

[00:24:09] I got a chance to see an advanced preview of this book and being from the South, honestly, I was a bit skeptical going in, but they won me over and nothing is more powerful than an initially skeptic convert in my book.

[00:24:20] In Jimmy's words, big guns, stupid rednecks is many things, but it isn't subtle.

[00:24:25] It tells you exactly what it is up front, then it delivers with a great premise, fantastic art, and a whole mess of fun.

[00:24:31] I had a great time reading big guns, stupid rednecks, and what I thought was going to be an indictment of redneck culture quickly showed it was actually a love letter.

[00:24:39] A family mystery, brother pitted against brother, aliens, fighting for profit in a big arena.

[00:24:45] This truly has it all. Issue one is out already, but you can still pick up a copy on the Band of Bards website and current issues are available via your previews or lunar order form or just ask your LCS.

[00:24:56] Don't miss it.

[00:24:57] Let's get back to the show.

[00:24:58] Well, lots of world building is in effect already there, which leaves the characters themselves as the writer's primary toy in the sandbox.

[00:25:06] I'm curious how you went about coming up with some of their looks, the Pantheon's looks there.

[00:25:11] Particularly Ishtar is fascinating. She's the goddess of love and sexuality and also the goddess of war.

[00:25:17] Classically, she's depicted as fairly buxom, and that expectation might be seen something akin to Wonder Woman or similar.

[00:25:26] But she's very androgynous and not particularly curvy. So why take it in that direction?

[00:25:32] Yeah, Ishtar is probably the hardest character I've ever written.

[00:25:35] Okay.

[00:25:36] Because the goddess of love and war and just her from the source materials, she can kind of come off narratively as questionable motivations throughout.

[00:25:49] You never quite know what she's going for. In my view, it was hard to say, okay, this is Ishtar.

[00:25:56] This is what I know what she's doing right now. I know what she'll want here in the future because of just how what the character is.

[00:26:02] But she's the goddess of love and the war. And obviously, there's a Venn diagram there.

[00:26:06] But it kind of complicates things.

[00:26:08] But design-wise, all of that got really consolidated and into a great form factor because of Ryan Cody.

[00:26:21] Ryan's designs of the gods specifically.

[00:26:23] There are a few notes I would give him about the gods specifically because each of them had their focus.

[00:26:35] Ishtar is the goddess of love and war.

[00:26:38] Ea or Inki to the Akkadian people was the god of the sea.

[00:26:45] He was a trickster god.

[00:26:46] He was a god of crafts.

[00:26:47] So that's why it's his day.

[00:26:49] It's Ea's day instead of Christmas.

[00:26:51] He's the god of crafts.

[00:26:52] So all these gifts are a reference to that.

[00:26:56] But each of them kind of have an animal representation in a lot of ways.

[00:27:05] Ea is depicted as a goat and a mermaid a lot of times.

[00:27:10] So he's the basis of Capricorn in a lot of beliefs.

[00:27:16] A reskigol had...

[00:27:20] I believe it was like a feral wolf was her representation.

[00:27:24] So in her depiction as the goddess of the underworld, you see this collar that's kind of frayed and kind of comes down like a feral dog's ears.

[00:27:33] It's very, very subtle references that Ryan and I were able to put together.

[00:27:37] But with Ishtar, she's often seen depicted as...

[00:27:41] Or at least among lions.

[00:27:44] There's a very classic image of Ishtar standing atop lions.

[00:27:49] It's kind of...

[00:27:50] It goes back and forth whether it's Ishtar or Lilith based on the fact that she's standing on lions and she kind of has owl features.

[00:27:59] But these gods went through so many transformations throughout the years that it's up in the air.

[00:28:05] So she's got that collar.

[00:28:08] Clothing-wise, she has that collar that turns her...

[00:28:11] It looks like a mane.

[00:28:12] It looks like a lion's mane.

[00:28:14] But on the basis of her sexuality and her strength as a goddess, I didn't want her to be traditionally sexy in the Western sense.

[00:28:32] Okay.

[00:28:33] The modern Western sense.

[00:28:36] Because she's the goddess of war and because she has such a hold on the king of Uruk, they have this relationship.

[00:28:42] She and Koukamesh that's purely sexual, but it's also...

[00:28:47] It's like a sexual battle upon one another.

[00:28:50] So I wanted to depict her with strength and I wanted to depict her with androgyny, definitely.

[00:28:58] Because what is sexy to...

[00:29:02] One person might not be sexy to another.

[00:29:04] So if you have that David Bowie level of androgyny, that's something I wanted to play with.

[00:29:09] But I also really...

[00:29:11] I was drawn to just the image of Rosie the Riveter.

[00:29:16] Because that's...

[00:29:17] Okay.

[00:29:17] You know, there's this strong woman that in her confidence is, you know, also very sexy.

[00:29:24] You know, out doing a job, sandwich in hand.

[00:29:27] I don't know.

[00:29:28] There's something very sexy about it to me.

[00:29:30] Okay.

[00:29:30] So just the fact that she's the goddess of war, goddess of love, I think they're related at that attraction to strength.

[00:29:43] Both, you know, in ideas of power and in ideas of sexuality.

[00:29:49] So it was kind of a blend of that.

[00:29:51] And it might not be everybody's cup of tea.

[00:29:55] But I think...

[00:29:58] Personally, I think it's a very sexy character just in that sense.

[00:30:02] Yeah.

[00:30:02] I really enjoyed the interpretation of it.

[00:30:05] And I was going to ask, but I think I already know the answer, that your love of Rosie the Riveter probably became before the child recently entered your life.

[00:30:13] Oh, yeah.

[00:30:14] Yeah.

[00:30:16] It was interesting with Ishtar to not have wings.

[00:30:19] And it felt like, classically, in what I was looking at in terms of sculpture specifically, wings are usually there.

[00:30:29] But that kind of got used for Tiamat.

[00:30:32] And I'll never personally be able to separate my own vision of what Tiamat should look like, which is the version from Dungeons & Dragons Saturday Morning Cartoon.

[00:30:39] That chromatic hydra kind of look.

[00:30:42] So it's interesting how you and Ryan ended up playing with all those, for sure.

[00:30:47] Yeah.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:50] Neglecting the wings was kind of a real-time decision.

[00:30:58] And it's mainly because they walk among humans and they have these human morals, human problems.

[00:31:03] So much of...

[00:31:05] Because Gilgamesh was a real king.

[00:31:06] He was a real figure in history.

[00:31:09] His name is amongst the scrolls of kings.

[00:31:11] And it's on cuneiform tablets that list his lineage.

[00:31:15] He had a son.

[00:31:15] He had a father.

[00:31:17] But in the stories we know about him, he was half-gah, half-man.

[00:31:21] He was kind of this original Hercules in a lot of senses.

[00:31:27] But so much of his story that we know is just myth.

[00:31:31] So clearly he was just this king who might have done great things, might have done bad things.

[00:31:37] Who knows?

[00:31:37] What we know is he fought these mythic beasts.

[00:31:39] And what we know is he told people to write very good things about him and make him this big hero.

[00:31:45] So just the fact that history is kind of skewed in that sense, it kind of felt like a person's ideas of these gods might be deifying them more than they even are.

[00:31:59] Yes, they're gods, but they're very human in a lot of senses.

[00:32:02] And I think that after the Battle of Tiamat, all the gods of the New World kind of wanted a little bit of separation from that style of god.

[00:32:13] Because there's a very big shift after Marduk kills Tiamat.

[00:32:20] But yeah, it was a definite decision, but one that I kind of...

[00:32:29] I want him to have winks eventually.

[00:32:30] Maybe in a sequel, we'll have one a bit more deified than they are.

[00:32:36] Well, I want to give props to Ryan's work as an artist while we're talking about characters.

[00:32:41] And I think there might be a correlation here, but he can draw the absolute best beards.

[00:32:46] And I know there's some historical accuracy to this, but all y'all on the creative team are bearded folk.

[00:32:53] So it's well done.

[00:32:55] Yeah.

[00:32:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:56] And those are some square beards with some fancy beading and pleading and very fancy.

[00:33:05] I think ours is all out of general...

[00:33:10] Well, for myself, I would say just general laziness.

[00:33:15] But yeah, there's some impressive facial hair throughout.

[00:33:21] And all very different kinds, too.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:24] Well, I love Enkidu as a character.

[00:33:26] The origins of his or the Reaper Sith in this story is quite clever.

[00:33:30] It doesn't quite jive with the Greek connection to Kronos and being a mother...

[00:33:35] Other things, the god of the harvest.

[00:33:36] So when did you have that aha moment with tying those pieces together with the Sith and kind of how that was put together?

[00:33:46] It's...

[00:33:47] It's...

[00:33:47] I...

[00:33:48] I love the moment.

[00:33:49] I think it's the crowning achievement of the series, honestly.

[00:33:54] It's a moment...

[00:33:55] It's really clever.

[00:33:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:56] I appreciate that.

[00:33:57] I hope it concretes the...

[00:33:59] You know, this combination of the classic story.

[00:34:02] Because it's like the one moment in the flashback where you're like, okay, I see where it's going.

[00:34:07] Hopefully.

[00:34:10] But it's...

[00:34:11] I'll give it away right now because I love it so much.

[00:34:13] It's a...

[00:34:15] Gilgamesh and Enkidu meet, they have a battle and it's impressive.

[00:34:24] Gilgamesh has his sword and shield.

[00:34:26] And Enkidu has a staff from, you know, the Cyprus forests of the gods.

[00:34:34] Or Cedar Forest of the gods, rather.

[00:34:36] So they're both enchanted items.

[00:34:38] When it's just a bow staff, essentially.

[00:34:39] One, Gilgamesh's sword.

[00:34:44] I wrote in that it was one of the teeth of the fallen Tiamond.

[00:34:48] So it's this enchanted item.

[00:34:49] It's a very D&D item that Gilgamesh has.

[00:34:52] And kind of might help explain why, you know, he's as powerful as he is.

[00:34:56] Yes, he's a demigod.

[00:34:57] But he also has this literal, you know, historic weapon that, because it was built of the gods, is enough to kill a god.

[00:35:08] And the same thing with the staff itself, even though it's not really explored too much.

[00:35:12] It's, you know, from the home of the gods, the Cedar Forests.

[00:35:16] And, you know, could do some damage to a god, I'm sure.

[00:35:19] But during the battle, the two get wedged together.

[00:35:23] Because it's a tooth, it's this curved tooth.

[00:35:25] And, you know, Enkidu ends up holding this, you know, newly made weapon that's a staff with a mystical sword sticking out of it.

[00:35:33] And it very, very much looks like a scythe.

[00:35:37] And it's, like I said, hopefully a moment for the reader to say, okay, this isn't just some random flashback.

[00:35:43] These moments connect.

[00:35:45] And it's a probably far too obvious foreshadowing of the things to come with Enkidu.

[00:35:52] But being able to find those moments and connect them and ground this as one story, I think was the best luck I had in telling the story.

[00:36:08] Because otherwise it would just feel like two type of stories.

[00:36:11] It would seem like these random flashbacks with this, you know, quote unquote sequel story to the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[00:36:18] But having these moments, which this one is my favorite, I think kind of grounds them together and kind of staples them together as one tale.

[00:36:29] And again, hopefully that comes off.

[00:36:31] But I think it's at least a cool item for D&D if anybody wants to write it into the campaign.

[00:36:38] It is a very cool item for sure.

[00:36:40] I like it.

[00:36:40] Was there an influence on how you wanted to portray the fight scenes in the book?

[00:36:44] Because it feels very WWE squared off with Gil and Enkidu ready to run in and lock arms with each other.

[00:36:51] Is that a feature of you or Ryan?

[00:36:55] A bit more.

[00:36:58] Just knowing Ryan and being a fan of his work.

[00:37:01] He will tell you that if a writer says, you know, Gil punches Enkidu.

[00:37:08] And if he feels that that punch isn't necessarily specific, he'll do a kick or a tackle.

[00:37:14] If it isn't something that lends to the story specifically.

[00:37:20] And I obviously loving his work gave him free reign to do anything he wanted with the fight scenes.

[00:37:27] He would kind of reinterpret it.

[00:37:29] But there are a few moments that kind of needed to be very specific was the symmetry.

[00:37:35] Because in the first issue we see side by sides of modern day and the flashback scenes where the fight mirrors itself on a single page.

[00:37:44] There's eight panels.

[00:37:46] One panel is flashback.

[00:37:47] One panel is modern day.

[00:37:48] And they go back and forth.

[00:37:50] And again, just a small moment to show you that we're looking at the same characters over the course of time.

[00:37:54] But yeah, a lot of it was very specific to the script.

[00:38:00] Especially with the battles with the beasts and the monsters.

[00:38:05] But even in the moments that were script specific or the moments that were reinterpreted by Ryan for more clean panel to panel storytelling.

[00:38:16] Which I love and appreciate.

[00:38:20] He gave it a weight that felt real and passionate from both fighters.

[00:38:27] So it always felt like this real battle.

[00:38:30] And it has that comic book-y dynamic punches that look like they're going up in the air and somebody's getting launched.

[00:38:36] But it always felt like it was grounded both physically and in the story.

[00:38:41] So, you know, listen to any writer.

[00:38:46] Trust your artist because they're going to give you a better product than you have in your mind.

[00:38:51] 99 out of 100 times.

[00:38:54] And Ryan's fight scenes are just fun.

[00:38:57] And I think they read well.

[00:38:58] It's a fast read in general, honestly.

[00:39:02] But hopefully these moments that are so, you know, driven and passionate with these fight scenes specifically make you want to, like, once you turn the page.

[00:39:13] Kind of want to go back and read it immediately because it's so, again, just so dynamic.

[00:39:18] And you want to see what the next panel is.

[00:39:21] But you kind of want to go back and see what that last panel was because it was a lot of fun.

[00:39:24] And that's all Ryan.

[00:39:26] Okay.

[00:39:26] Yeah, I recently read the Kickstarter project, Old Man Thunder Punch.

[00:39:31] And you get that feels just like his I really need to get this out of my head the way I want to construct a fight scene with a dude with a beard.

[00:39:40] So, yeah, clearly Death Comes for a Toymaker was not enough and he needed to do yet more.

[00:39:46] Oh, yeah.

[00:39:46] That actually came years before Death Comes for a Toymaker when I was looking at his work because he was going to be the colorist on this project.

[00:39:55] In my mind, I was hoping to bring him on as a colorist.

[00:39:57] But then I found his actual line art, which had that, especially in the first issue, had that, like, Nyola style, that playing with darkness and letting the darkness be, you know, like a character in the story itself.

[00:40:11] But amongst his art, like his work on Family Tree was there, his work on the Phantom was there.

[00:40:17] But he had this character, Old Man Thunder Punch, which I didn't realize until looking back recently that the character he made, this Old Man Thunder Punch, was years and years before Death Comes for the Toymaker.

[00:40:34] So, hopefully, you know, him working on Toymaker really reignited that passion for just an old man punching things because it's fun.

[00:40:44] It's a fun read.

[00:40:45] A lot of old man punching.

[00:40:50] Yeah, it is.

[00:40:51] But it's more than that, right?

[00:40:52] There's an exploration of cross-pollination of cultures and cultural assimilation, right?

[00:40:58] Christian religion and culture supplanted that of Mesopotamia.

[00:41:02] So, for example, you have the—I don't even know if I'm going to pronounce this correctly—but the Enuma Elish, you know, the Acadian poem that predates the Bible and details the creation myth where Marduk battles Timot.

[00:41:13] And the Prime Goddess also referred to as the Primal Sea, to create the world forming order out of chaos.

[00:41:19] Parallel there, translations of the Bible, God battles the deep or the sea.

[00:41:24] You know, creation takes place over seven days versus in seven tablets.

[00:41:29] You dig a little, there's a fair number of creation myth analogs there for Christianity.

[00:41:33] And Christianity is known historically for its syncretism across the years, especially during Christmas, where it incorporates, you know, pagan practices like Saturnalia.

[00:41:42] So how deep are you wanting the rabbit hole to go for people there?

[00:41:46] I'm always looking for deeper meaning and finding something sometimes that never was actually intended.

[00:41:55] In this world, there are Easter trees.

[00:41:59] There are stockings.

[00:42:00] There are these traditions that might be related to, you know, our Christmas now that don't necessarily come for Christmas.

[00:42:09] So one of the big goals with creating Ia's day was to kind of keep the more, what we see now is like the pagan side of things.

[00:42:18] On top of the tree, there isn't an angel, there's a boat for, to represent, you know, Ia saving people from the flood, saving Unapishtim and his wife.

[00:42:34] And so we, I, I hoped to make it feel like, you know, celebrating with a tree with presents underneath it is kind of inevitable in a lot of senses.

[00:42:46] Okay.

[00:42:51] But this is a world where the only gods that exist are the gods of Mesopotamia.

[00:42:58] So there's never going to be a sequel series where it's, you know, Gil versus Hercules or whatever, unless it's like some transdimensional something.

[00:43:06] Um, so in this world, Christianity didn't exist, you know, at all.

[00:43:11] You know, uh, there's no, um, uh, Hebrew tradition.

[00:43:18] So, uh, like Cyrus the Great never came and freed, um, the Jewish people from Mesopotamia, from Babylon.

[00:43:29] It's always been just Mesopotamia.

[00:43:31] And then that spread out.

[00:43:33] There's been a few, like, there's one reference to another religion that I wanted to throw in just as another feeling of, like, the inevitable.

[00:43:42] Um, and it's Boroastrianism, um, which for the uninitiated is the first religion that had the, the dual gods, the god of good, quote unquote, and the god of evil.

[00:43:55] You know, this, this god and devil archetype.

[00:43:59] Um, because that, again, felt pretty inevitable.

[00:44:02] That there would be a religion, something that came across, despite the fact that the gods walk the earth in this, uh, this world.

[00:44:09] There's going to be some doubters.

[00:44:11] There's going to be some people that are like, well, maybe they're just, you know, it's all smoke and mirrors, what have you.

[00:44:15] So I wanted to throw in this real world religion that's still practiced today.

[00:44:19] It's one of the smallest religions, unfortunately.

[00:44:21] It's a very fascinating, uh, group of people.

[00:44:23] Um, Freddie Mercury was one, um, purportedly, who knows?

[00:44:28] Uh, but again, it's just this, this idea that something would come to counter the gods.

[00:44:34] And it's only touched on lightly in a, in a diner scene.

[00:44:36] There's, it's all in retrospect.

[00:44:37] It's all just in dialogue.

[00:44:40] Um, but it's, uh, yeah, there was a lot of work with, uh, making sure that, uh, it felt like a world where only the gods of Babylon existed.

[00:44:51] Uh, again, there were a few things here and there, but, um, uh, that was the goal at least.

[00:44:57] Okay.

[00:44:57] Okay.

[00:44:58] Well, I know way back, you mentioned a possible sequel potentially centering around Ishtar and Easter.

[00:45:03] Is that still something you're considering?

[00:45:06] Yeah.

[00:45:07] Yeah.

[00:45:07] So, uh, it started out with a very different story with, um, uh, a young girl who shows up in the first issue, sees her father, you know, killed by the Santa Claus figure.

[00:45:19] And then herself going on this hunt to kill him.

[00:45:24] Um, that story kind of went away for a very long time.

[00:45:27] Um, and it became what it is now.

[00:45:30] Um, but I'd like to tell that again, cause somebody is probably going to hold a grudge against Gil.

[00:45:35] Uh, even if by the end, maybe he's, who knows, he's dead.

[00:45:39] He's, uh, reformed, whatever happens at the end of the graphic novel.

[00:45:43] Um, but I'd like to, I'd be interested in seeing that played out because there are some unanswered questions at the end of the, the first volume.

[00:45:53] Like, oh, I don't want to give out, uh, like, you know, who is, is the job of death the same now?

[00:46:03] Um, like who's doing it?

[00:46:05] How's it done?

[00:46:06] Um, and then there was a very specific, uh, reason why I chose to go with the, um, Sumerian pantheon, specifically that of the city of Uruk.

[00:46:19] That's where Gilgamesh is.

[00:46:21] Um, but the Akkadian, um, name for the gods, the Akkadian people were simultaneous, uh, to the, uh, Sumerian people, one was north, one was south.

[00:46:33] Kind of like the Greeks and Romans had the same pantheon, uh, different names for the gods, some differences here and there, but they inspired each other.

[00:46:39] Eventually the Akkadians, um, lived much longer than the Sumerians.

[00:46:44] Um, but the reason that I went with, uh, the Akkadian pantheon is twofold because, um, otherwise I would have a character named Inky-Doo and Inky.

[00:46:53] Uh, whereas with the Akkadian, I have Inky-Doo and Ea.

[00:46:56] So it's, it's easier on the readers, easier on me, um, in that sense.

[00:47:00] And also, goddess of war and love goes from being Anana to being Ishtar, which has ties to our Easter.

[00:47:08] So there is that possibility in the future for a, uh, Easter story.

[00:47:11] And it's, it's plotted out.

[00:47:13] Um, but it all depends on, you know, how this is received and if anybody wants to see more of the world.

[00:47:19] Okay.

[00:47:20] Well, I'm curious about how you feel like you're finding your footing as a comics writer.

[00:47:24] Grandma Tilly should be characterized as a comedy for sure.

[00:47:28] And there are a lot for me, unexpected comedic beats in Toymaker.

[00:47:33] Is comedy your comfortable wheelhouse?

[00:47:35] I'm not trying to pin you down in terms of genre.

[00:47:37] It's just, I'm, I'm thinking about other writers who are known for it.

[00:47:40] So Kyle Starks writes all kinds of stories, but they maintain that humorous undertone.

[00:47:44] That is kind of a through line of his work.

[00:47:47] And I've been talking about Kyle Starks a lot lately.

[00:47:49] I don't know why.

[00:47:50] Oh, cool.

[00:47:51] Oh no, I love the comparison.

[00:47:52] That's wonderful.

[00:47:53] Um, yeah, it's hard to say because, uh, I come from a theater background, writing plays

[00:47:58] that were very much, um, you know, three act sitcoms, essentially, uh, very much French

[00:48:05] comedy, very much in and out of doors, mistaken identities, what have you.

[00:48:08] Just the classic, uh, uh, you know, Moldier style French comedies.

[00:48:13] Um, but I worked in, I say worked in animation.

[00:48:17] I actively pitched to animation, uh, both, you know, digitally and in person and Burbank

[00:48:23] for several years.

[00:48:25] Um, still am here and there, but it's a, it's a very different beast these days.

[00:48:29] And despite, uh, you know, having those connections and being able to somewhat pitch at will, um,

[00:48:35] um, it is a beast that is hard to, um, tame.

[00:48:41] And also at the end of the day might rise up and bite against you.

[00:48:46] That's kind of the state of animation right now.

[00:48:47] I love it.

[00:48:48] I'm very passionate about it.

[00:48:49] Um, but it's in a very big transition, uh, period.

[00:48:53] And it's, I don't know where I would put into that right now.

[00:48:58] So a lot of my, uh, animated pieces became comics.

[00:49:02] Um, the only one of which has been published is, uh, Grandma Tilley's.

[00:49:07] Um, it was a, you know, a kid's cartoon that, um, you know, through being developed for comics

[00:49:12] became more of a hard PG-13 light R, sometimes hard R, I guess.

[00:49:17] Um, but it still has that very goofy animated comedy style.

[00:49:23] Whereas Death of the Toymaker is more in line with, you know, my theater days where, um,

[00:49:30] it's, it's very introspective.

[00:49:31] There's, yeah, a lot of dialogue, but hopefully dialogue that's not talking heads.

[00:49:35] It's moving the story forward, you know, keeping readers reading from panel to panel.

[00:49:39] And it feels like that's more Myrtle House now.

[00:49:41] It's, it's kind of this blend of theater writing and blend of animation writing, um,

[00:49:46] where, where it's the, um, the themes and the, you know, the heavy topics of, you know,

[00:49:51] 20th century theater piece, but with kind of the sometimes goofy, but always energetic

[00:49:59] forward momentum.

[00:50:00] Cause my goal is always to just have the reader reading the next panel, whether that's, you

[00:50:04] know, on the next page or on the next issue, um, whatever I can do to not make one page

[00:50:10] of panels look boring.

[00:50:12] And so, you know, everybody picks up a comic and, you know, sees a page that's just like

[00:50:17] one location over several panels with a lot of dialogue.

[00:50:20] And even if it's your favorite writer, or for me, at least, if it's my favorite writer,

[00:50:24] I'll go, okay, well, I'll get through this page and then the next one will be fine.

[00:50:28] But if it's like a series of several pages of the same thing, it's, it's, it can be difficult.

[00:50:32] Um, but my goal is always to try to not have a page that feels like work.

[00:50:38] And I think that comes from the animated, uh, world of just having forward momentum in some

[00:50:44] sense.

[00:50:46] I'm getting a little off topic, but it's the animated issue more AI and it's prominence

[00:50:54] coming into animation.

[00:50:55] I don't have a lot of familiarity with it.

[00:50:57] I'm just curious.

[00:50:59] Oh, no.

[00:50:59] Um, yeah.

[00:51:00] So AI is a big problem.

[00:51:01] Um, it's, it's more of a future problem definitely.

[00:51:04] Cause it's not, uh, uh, not really infiltrated the, you know, the, the product like it could

[00:51:11] in the future.

[00:51:11] All the strikes are very preventative.

[00:51:14] Um, the issue is a lot to do with streaming, a lot to do with, uh, how people, uh, watch

[00:51:22] animated series.

[00:51:24] Um, and all of these, you know, numbers and all of these, uh, um, uh, you know, studio

[00:51:32] executive explorations end up with a decision that, uh, well, let's not spend money on something

[00:51:38] we don't know will work.

[00:51:40] Let's spend money on something we have, uh, that's less money that we know has worked in

[00:51:45] the past.

[00:51:46] So there's a lot of legacy animations happening.

[00:51:49] Um, when they, when a studio or a network ends up doing a new series, um, it's only one season,

[00:51:58] uh, and then forgotten, um, with certain, there's been a big problem that Warner Brothers

[00:52:04] specifically with, uh, cartoon network and, um, adult swim and just Warner Brothers animation

[00:52:10] in general where something will be made and then immediately shelved, um, without ever

[00:52:17] being seen.

[00:52:18] Obviously that woman was one of them, uh, new Looney Tunes show, but a lot of animated series,

[00:52:24] uh, are just shelved and kind of, um, maybe written off for tax purposes.

[00:52:30] It's kind of the cynic in me saying that.

[00:52:33] Um, but it's hard not to, it's, it's hard to understand why something that is completed

[00:52:39] is not housed on a streaming surface where it can be enjoyed.

[00:52:44] I don't, of course, I don't know what it costs to put something on a streaming service, but

[00:52:48] if, when you've got thousands of options on your streaming service already, you might,

[00:52:52] one more might not bankrupt the company.

[00:52:54] So I don't know.

[00:52:55] It's, it really is a lot of that.

[00:52:56] It's a lot of, um, companies are naturally risk averse and rightfully so, but that risk

[00:53:03] adversity ends up, um, being creatively neutering because there's, it's hard to find new content.

[00:53:11] That's not just somebody went on YouTube and did.

[00:53:14] Okay.

[00:53:15] Well, I know this project has seen multiple failed launches and I don't want you to feel

[00:53:20] like I'm picking at a wound or anything, but I'm trying to see your, see your experience

[00:53:24] in a more positive light.

[00:53:25] So what advice do you have for creators before saying, signing that contract or what would

[00:53:30] you have done differently today?

[00:53:34] Um, you know, it's, it's always advisable to have a lawyer on your team, look at, um,

[00:53:40] your contract.

[00:53:42] Uh, obviously, um, you know, creative people might not be as, um, in tune with legal, legal

[00:53:48] issues as, you know, well, they, they shouldn't be as in tune with legal issues as a lawyer.

[00:53:53] They just naturally shouldn't be unless they themselves are a lawyer.

[00:53:56] Um, but I will say that every contract I have signed has, uh, been pretty similar, uh, both

[00:54:03] in, you know, the scope of work and, um, the expectations of me as someone delivering the

[00:54:10] product and in, um, you know, the rates and it's all pretty cookie cutter, honestly.

[00:54:18] Um, but this is a, it's a creator driven business comics, especially indie comics.

[00:54:26] When you're not working on legacy characters, when you're working on your own properties,

[00:54:29] it is absolutely creator driven.

[00:54:31] Um, and I will say that every publisher I've worked with will send you a contract and say,

[00:54:42] look over this, let me know how it is.

[00:54:44] Um, but they'll also say, let us know if any changes are necessary.

[00:54:48] Um, so my advice would be if, uh, uh, if that contract for some reason doesn't say,

[00:54:56] you know, you retain complete creative, uh, control, um, for whatever reason, um, once

[00:55:05] that, you know, once that contract ends, make sure it does.

[00:55:08] Uh, if you expect to want to get out of that contract, um, look over how, um, you know,

[00:55:16] the ins and outs of that specific contract and how, um, you know, you would, if you decided

[00:55:22] to get out of your contract, what that would look like.

[00:55:23] But I will say that, uh, again, every publisher I've worked with has a very specific, um, clause

[00:55:30] for getting in and out of, you know, the, the contract.

[00:55:33] Sometimes it's a lot vaguer than others.

[00:55:36] Sometimes it's just the phrase, you know, mutual agreement, who knows what that means?

[00:55:40] Mutual agreement.

[00:55:41] Um, one person can just say no.

[00:55:44] Um, but how do a lawyer look over?

[00:55:47] Um, I've been lucky with my contract.

[00:55:49] Um, I received the, uh, the rights back to Toymaker, um, almost immediately.

[00:55:57] Um, I was very lucky in that sense.

[00:55:59] Um, but there was, you know, again, it's mutual agreement.

[00:56:04] It was mutually agreed that, uh, um, it would be better in its creator's hands.

[00:56:11] Um, but yeah, it's a very vague advice, but, uh, if you have the capability of having a

[00:56:17] lawyer look over it and there's a lot of, uh, entertainment lawyers, uh, some that work

[00:56:21] exclusively in comics, uh, have them look over it.

[00:56:24] Um, and I would say present that to the publisher as well, um, because a publisher might not have

[00:56:30] the verbiage that they want.

[00:56:33] Um, it's not to be, you know, the, the company, you know, suck up or whatever.

[00:56:40] Um, sometimes, uh, sometimes the publisher might not know what their, uh, what it looks like to a creator.

[00:56:50] Um, so if it's something that can be updated on your end and updated, you know, for any creator

[00:56:55] in the future, um, you know, it might, it might help out, uh, all parties involved, uh, future

[00:57:02] and current.

[00:57:03] Well, I have personally been waiting for Death Comes for the Toymaker to drop for a long time

[00:57:07] now.

[00:57:07] Dakota, I know you have too.

[00:57:09] It's found a good home at Magma Comics, who is doing some great stuff right now, by the

[00:57:12] way, really cool books there.

[00:57:15] And Lister's not seeing this in video formatting.

[00:57:17] There's a handful of signed books that are over my shoulders on the shelf and I'll scan

[00:57:22] to the right, right there.

[00:57:24] And this is, yeah, yeah.

[00:57:26] And this is one of them.

[00:57:27] So that should tell you how much I love I have for the project as a lover of mythology in

[00:57:31] general.

[00:57:32] It's very fun and clever read.

[00:57:33] And I'm always, always down to support a fellow native East Tennessean.

[00:57:37] I rarely get to say East Tennessean.

[00:57:39] So that's always cool.

[00:57:41] Um, Dakota, where can people find you online?

[00:57:44] Oh, well, I have a very confusing handle on my social media.

[00:57:48] So I've been telling everybody, uh, go to Magma Comics on social media, find them.

[00:57:53] If you scroll down, you'll see me, whether it's on Twitter slash X or Facebook or, um,

[00:58:01] blue sky and, uh, threads and Instagram.

[00:58:04] Uh, I'm connected to them on all of them and they've reposted me.

[00:58:08] So find them first, scroll down, find the other great creators at Magma.

[00:58:12] Um, but, uh, uh, if you want to type it out, it's, uh, on Twitter, it's D-U-H-C-O-A-T-U-H-W-R-I-T-E-S.

[00:58:22] It's Dakota rights.

[00:58:24] Just spelled very horribly.

[00:58:26] Uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult to find.

[00:58:29] So I, I suggest going through, uh, Magma, liking them first and then finding me through there.

[00:58:34] You homered it when you came up with the, the original, uh, tag there, right?

[00:58:39] Duh.

[00:58:40] Oh yeah.

[00:58:41] Oh yeah.

[00:58:41] That's my, uh, I think that's my, uh, uh, my PlayStation gamer tag.

[00:58:44] I just, uh, Dakota was taking it and feel like having anything clever.

[00:58:47] So I just wanted to, uh, uh, have my name, but spelled weird.

[00:58:51] And then it just stuck, but it's a terrible market.

[00:58:55] Terrible.

[00:58:55] Terrible.

[00:58:56] You can always change it.

[00:58:58] Oh yeah.

[00:58:59] Yeah.

[00:59:00] Well, make sure to put an order in for Death Comes for the Toymaker to round out

[00:59:03] your holiday book reads.

[00:59:05] You won't regret it.

[00:59:06] And Dakota, I feel like we need, do I need to get an age appropriateness level in case

[00:59:11] anyone might be considering buying it as a gift?

[00:59:13] You know, my take is it's totally fine for high schoolers, but how low would you go?

[00:59:18] Uh, so like I said, um, Magma is billing it as a young adult graphic novel.

[00:59:23] So that means different things to different people.

[00:59:25] Um, I try not to write anything that would be above PG-13 typically, but this one kind

[00:59:33] of skirts the line.

[00:59:34] I would say 15, 16 and up.

[00:59:37] Um, but if you're a parent who, uh, is ready to answer, you know, questions to a younger

[00:59:41] audience, uh, to your 13 year old, um, power to you, go for it.

[00:59:46] Um, there's a little bit of sexuality, uh, nothing shown explicitly.

[00:59:51] Um, but a lot of violence that is shown explicitly.

[00:59:54] Like, uh, you know, people's insides become outside.

[00:59:58] Uh, so depending on what you feel there, um, I would just say gauge it as, uh, as you

[01:00:04] would any, uh, film warning.

[01:00:07] Um, okay.

[01:00:09] All right.

[01:00:09] Well, Dakota, it's always a pleasure catching up with you.

[01:00:12] Thanks so much for coming back on the show and chatting with me.

[01:00:14] Absolutely.

[01:00:15] Thank you so much for having me.

[01:00:16] This was fun.

[01:00:17] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:18] Well, this is Byron O'Neill and on behalf of all of us at Comic Book Yeti, thanks for

[01:00:21] tuning in and we'll see you next time.

[01:00:23] Take care, everybody.

[01:00:24] Thanks so much.

[01:00:25] This is Byron O'Neill, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you

[01:00:29] by Comic Book Yeti.

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