David Andry Interview - Crush Depth

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview. Hey everyone, this is... Hi Byron. Who is this? I'm your fairy godmother. I have a fairy godmother? Of course you do. I'm 50 years old, why haven't you shown up before? I appear when I'm needed. And I didn't need you in all these years? Do you want my help or not? Um...

[00:00:30] Sure. Exactly. I was just about to pitch our Patreon. Why would I need help with that? Because you're an idiot sometimes. That's hurtful. What were you going to put on there? We do comic stuff? So something along those lines? And this is why I'm here. You do know what people put on Patreon most of the time, right? Honestly, no. People need something a little bit spicy to entice them to support you.

[00:00:59] Nobody wants to see me shirtless. I doubt that's true. You are in pretty good shape considering your age. Thank you. Let's see. A little spicy. I've been bugging Jimmy to figure out what he's going to do. I know lately he's been playing around with his **** all the time. He loves to take it out and show it off. There's even a specific TikTok channel now. How's that sound? Not a bad start. People like Jimmy. What else you got?

[00:01:24] I told a story recently about being in a strip club with some of the four horsemen when I was working for WCW back in the day. I picked up an infection on my- Woo! From the experience, I hate strip clubs. Is that better? Getting there. But maybe spicy shouldn't include infections you get in strip clubs. That's not sexy. We'll workshop it. Like I need more meating. At least tell them where to find it while we figure this out. Mother goddess helped this poor man.

[00:01:52] You can find us on Patreon at cryptidcreatorcornerpod. I'll put it in the show notes. Anything else you'd like to remind me that I'm bad at? How much time do you have? Why do you look like Rosario Dawson anyway? I appear the way you want me to look. Okay, that's disturbing. Wait, have you been showing up in my dreams? I'll never tell. And we're done here. Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again.

[00:02:20] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know, and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing. Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess? Question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge.

[00:02:45] If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive. Allowing you to build, play, and export animated maps, including in-person, fog-of-war capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture. Now I'm set to easily build high-res animated maps, saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign. That's a win every day in my book.

[00:03:14] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you. And big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I have a returning guest. I think it's his third time on the podcast. I think it's third time. Be crazy.

[00:03:41] Do I get a free sandwich or is my punch card full yet? Not yet. Okay. Got to get five. Yeah, you still got a little, you got to go to like the Five Timers Club. And I think Steve Fox is still the big winner at like seven appearances. Byron has interviewed seven times. I'm going to find Steve. I saw Steve at like New York Comic Con, so I'll take him out next time. Yeah. And then I will be the reigning champion. Yeah. But for five, we'll do something nice.

[00:04:08] But with three, yes, if you're ever in Delaware or if I'm ever in California, I'll get you a sandwich. Nice. But yes, please welcome to the podcast just one of my favorite writers. And I think every time I've spoken to him, one of the nicest guys in comics, he's written Resonant, Denizen, and recently for Mad Cave Morningstar, which I absolutely loved.

[00:04:33] And he's back now working with Tim Daniel on another Mad Cave series that's going to come out in March, Crush Depth. Please welcome to the podcast, David, DB, Andrew. Hey, hello everybody. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Uh, no, David, thanks. Thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. I mean, I, um, I always enjoy whenever I get a chance to talk to you and I really enjoyed having you and Tim and Marco Finnegan on when we talked about Morningstar. Yes.

[00:05:02] I, I really, I really loved Morningstar. I, I really loved how it kind of had that. I mean, I think it was, you guys talked about on the podcast, like a mix between you, some of your influences when you were younger, like Steven Spielberg and Steven King. And I, I, I just really thought it, it found a nice sweet spot for me. I thought it was from the very intriguing first issue.

[00:05:31] And as it went on, I, I, I did think it was going to be kind of like difficult as to how was everything going to get wrapped up. Right. I felt it was a, I thought it was a very satisfying ending without being something that like maybe not every, you know, maybe not everything was in a nice, neat little bow, but I, I really loved the conclusion of it. Um, like the catharsis of that last issue.

[00:05:58] And, and, you know, Marco Finnegan, Jason Wordy, I just thought was phenomenal. Just the best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That ending was something that, you know, me and Tim had a lot of back and forth with trying to figure out, you know, how much do we lay out? How much do we left leave like unsaid? Um, you know, we like to have a little mystery, a little bit of like trust in the reader to like, you know, kind of be an active participant in the story.

[00:06:25] Um, so, uh, yeah, that was, uh, I'm glad kind of the consensus from most people, although some of the reviews I've seen online is like, what the hell was that ending? Uh, that's fine. I'd rather have someone upset because at least that means they were emotionally invested along the way, uh, versus someone not care. So, um, I think the general consensus is people like, yeah, that was cool. And then, you know, you make a couple of people grumpy along the way. I think you're doing an okay job. Oh yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:06:55] Um, yeah, but like I said, I really enjoyed the ending. Um, do you know, do you still check, do you check out reviews? Have you always done that? Do you just look at it a little bit? Do you like, are you someone that obsesses over the reviews? I try not to. I, I, I try to, you know, realize that I'm a very picky reader myself, you know, and a lot of things that people love, I don't like. It doesn't mean they're not good. It just means it doesn't, you know, hit me the right way.

[00:07:22] Um, but I do kind of still skim the reviews. They don't impact me as much as they did when I got my first, like really bad review on resonant. And, uh, that one, like that one really hurt. Uh, cause it was like, I had a bunch of good reviews in a row and I was feeling really kind of, I guess, cocky and good. And like you get one, that's like a 2.3 out of 10. And I'm like, how can I get a 2.3 out of 10? Just the art alone should give you a five.

[00:07:52] All right. Don't worry about the story. Just look at the pretty pictures that that's halfway there. Uh, yeah. So yeah, I try, I don't bother me anymore. Um, I can look at them or not look at them. Um, you know, you want the, the crappy thing is like the algorithms want reviews. So, you know, I try to bug people to go on Amazon as much as, you know, I don't want to bow to the, the Amazon overlords. I mean, it is a big way that people get ahold of your stuff.

[00:08:19] And so, you know, you always want to get some verified reviews on there if you can. So it's the only thing that I care about reviews now is like helping get my book out in front of more people's eyeballs. Oh yeah. Yeah. But it, it is funny to like, you know, I'll go on comic book roundup, you know, or a site like that, that aggregates, aggregates, aggregates, aggregates reviews. I know how to speak. I say words good.

[00:08:48] Um, and every once in a while, it's, I, I love like, especially when it's something I, I will usually go on. There when I read a, when I have read an issue and I'm not quite sure how I feel about it, you know, like I'm still trying to think through it. And I miss a little bit of like, you know, English class in school where you could kind of, you know, you talk it through my friends. Yeah.

[00:09:13] If my friends aren't reading the same things or, you know, I mean, social media is, is, is good for that sometimes, but I like to go on and see somebody else's take on a thing. Um, to see if they're thinking some of the same thoughts I am. And it is wild when it's something I really like and you will go through and you'll be like 10, 10, 9.8, 9.5. And then like 3.7. Like, it's like, well, wait, where's this person coming from? Were you reading the same book?

[00:09:39] Uh, and the, the, the thing I do like, the two thing I think I like the reviews is to see if like themes are getting across. I think more than like, if people are seeing the, the subtext behind the text and if they're getting like these emotional connections and stuff that we're trying to, you know, weave into there to make it more impactful. If that stuff is getting across into the reviews, that's really cool.

[00:10:03] It's like, yes, it's not something that was said anywhere in the book, but they're totally picking up exactly what, you know, we were trying to get into the story, uh, in a, in a thematic way or a subtext way or. Or, or, you know, whatever. Um, it's really nice that people kind of, uh, I think readers are a lot. Savvier than a lot of writers give them credit for and feel like they have to explain everything out. Um, and, and I think most readers get it.

[00:10:31] And so, um, that's why we try to, you know, Tim and I try to hold some stuff back and not be so like blatant in like, this is the lesson of this book or this is the theme of this book where, you know, people get it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I appreciate that. It's like when I, I, uh, I'll, I pointed out sometimes with like a television show where they'll show you something in the first 20 minutes and like 45 minutes in something else happens.

[00:11:01] And then they do a flashback to the scene. And it's like, it's only been 20 minutes. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. It's like five minutes ago. Yeah, I know. I, I was here the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. That's always great. It's like, yeah, let's not trust our, our viewers or readers at all. Let's immediately remind them of the thing that we just showed them. Yeah. It's great. Um, but yeah.

[00:11:25] So, you know, I, I really liked Morningstar and, um, uh, excited that you're working, uh, with, with Tim again. So, Crush Depp, you and Tim Daniel again. Yes. Alex Sanchez is doing the artwork. And now, um, Kurt Michael, uh, Kurt, Mike, Michael, hmm. Kurt Michael Russell. Yep. Right. And, uh, Justin Birch. Yeah. Is lettering.

[00:11:48] Uh, Justin Birch, no stranger to, to lettering underwater, um, uh, a horror type of books. I think he was the letterer on Sea of Sorrows. Yeah. Yeah. He's got it. Uh, Rich Dueck and Alex Cormac. And that was fantastic. So. And I had Justin, you know, he's, we worked with him before. He's great. Um, so, you know, um, as much as I kind of like to work with new people, it's really cool to

[00:12:12] get like, you know, we're cut Kurt on end after end and, you know, Justin, uh, before too. So it's like, okay, this is cool. You know, we know these guys are going to do their part. Um, and then Alex was, I, I was not. I think I followed Alex on Instagram, but he has his, his like name is like iron head or something like that on there. So I didn't know it was him.

[00:12:39] Um, and, and we had gone through, you know, another artist that we had initially pitched with and they got busy and we're doing other things. Um, and so we, Alex came on board. I'm like, Oh, this guy's awesome. Where, why do I not know who this guy is? And then realized later, Oh, I do know who this guy is. I've been following him on Instagram for years. And yeah. So yeah, he's amazing. Great. You know, he's done some Godzilla stuff in the past. So he's great. Like monster designer.

[00:13:07] And like when we get into some of the star Wars. Yeah. And so we get into some of the later issues where things really go off the rails. Um, he really is kind of going nuts with like the monster designs and stuff. All right. I can't wait to see it. Um, so you were kind enough to send, uh, you know, like a preview of the first issue of crush step. Um, I thought it was great. Um, again, something that reminded me of, of some things I was familiar with, but enough

[00:13:36] twists and, and turns that, uh, and surprises that I, I cannot wait to see where it goes. Um, just for, for, for listeners and I'll, you know, it's about science. It starts out really about science officer, Liana Pearson, uh, who is aboard a submarine. It is apparently you find out early on the world has kind of been toxic ravaged by due to climate change.

[00:14:06] And they have been underwater for like a decade or something along those lines. Yes. They think, yeah. And it's a, it looks like, I guess it's two brothers that are the ones, the captain and one is not. Um, and they get a, they get some type of call that they go to investigate and that kind of sets up the first issue. Yeah. So, um, they kind of seem like they haven't had a lot of, you know, human contact for a while and they get a call.

[00:14:33] And so they feel like they need to, um, to go out and investigate it. Um, that, uh, crew is kind of a little bit of a ragtag. Um, I think of like star Trek Voyager where it's like some people that, you know, were Navy and started on the ship and some people, maybe they picked up along the way. Um, and, uh, yeah. And then they get to this, uh, crash site of the sinking of another ship and then crazy

[00:15:02] stuff starts to happen in the subsequent issues. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first issue, I really like, I really liked the setup of it. I mean, you have a bit of, I won't spoil anything. I, not even the very, the opening of it because, um, it, it, it does something that I really like that kind of gives us a glimpse as to where we're headed and then gets right into, you know, we kind of see Pearson, the science officer, we kind of get a sense of some of the

[00:15:32] other crew members and then, and then it kind of quickly gets into this, uh, distress call. And you really, without a lot of exposition kind of learn the roles and some of the dynamics. I thought it's a really nice setup, um, in terms of getting to see who everybody is and what their roles are. But within that, you kind of get a sense of the interplay between the characters as

[00:16:00] well, which is kind of like a really nice way to do it without like, you know, blocks of, you know, you know, without blocks of dialogue. Yeah. It's not the old like image where you had a splash page with like six new heroes on it and it would have like, I'm shooty guy and I like, you know, he's the best, uh, sharpshooter in the world and like description stuff. So yeah, it's always, you know, first issues are always a challenge cause you want to get people invested in character.

[00:16:29] You want to get them familiar with the world enough that they can understand what's happening and everything that goes next makes sense. Um, yeah. And, and start to heighten some tension and, and, and build what's going to be the story. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a balancing act for having people talk naturally, but explain more than they probably would in real life.

[00:16:54] You know, you know, if you ever see someone say, I know we're brothers, but no one ever says that in real life, but in comic books, they say that all the time. They describe their relationship with each other, then keep on talking. Right. No, but I mean like, and look, I don't, I don't mind some of those, those issues where they, they have all the characters and they do a little block dialogue or a caption box as to what everything is.

[00:17:20] But I just really like how we got into this story and kind of set the stage for some of the, the weirdness that, that is to come. Cause at least in the preview that you sent me, that last page is, you know, I thought I had a sense of what, where we were going. I mean, then I, then there's that like last, the last like page and a half. And I was like, Oh, I got, I got no fucking clue. Yeah. That's the, that's the idea on that one.

[00:17:50] You know, cause we do, you know, like you kind of alluded to, we start with a little bit of a flash forward and then a flashback, you know, where we kind of get to like current time. And we're going to continue with that throughout the entire series that flash basically two timelines that will eventually meet up where, um, but yeah, that, uh, that really nice. I mean, Alex and, and Kurt just absolutely crushed those last kind of couple of pages of like, Oh wow.

[00:18:18] There's a lot of stuff going on here that, um, is going to be kind of surprising. Yeah. Uh, I was surprised. Um, one of the things I was thinking about reading it and I'm always interested in terms of like, in terms of, um, the research that goes into writing, not just comic books, but any, any type of writing. And you, you certainly, I've read plenty of things that seem like, like heavily researched.

[00:18:45] And, um, I always think when I'm like putting something together, like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta look up this and I want to get this right. And I want to get that right. But then I've read things where I'm like, I know this isn't correct. I know the writer did not go and check like that. All of these things are like accurate because it doesn't really matter to the overall plot of the comic. Right. And so I can see both schools of thought in terms of the amount of research and what's important and what isn't.

[00:19:13] Um, but I'm curious with something like this, which, you know, you're in like a future type of setting. Um, but you do have kind of a lot of like technical terms at times in terms of, you know, like the submarine and how fast it's going and like nautical terms. Like, so how much of that were you concerned about? Oh, I got to get this right. You know, between you and Tim. So me, not at all. Tim is the researcher.

[00:19:41] That's why I always said stuff in fantasy worlds or slightly in the future or in, you know, I don't have to do research. I hate research. Um, I did, I did look up some submarines facts, but you know, I've also watched a lot of submarine movies and I'm like, well, if they put it in a movie, yeah, I can put it in a comic book. Um, uh, the thing that, that like I read what I really like and I kind of brought a lot to this is the, the deep sea undersea life.

[00:20:08] I'm like obsessed with, um, sea creatures and weird sea animals. And like, if you've been following me on blue sky, I'll be, I've been, I've been, uh, like posting like a creepy creature and then, you know, put crush depths cover next to it and say, you know, um, nice. So I, I, I really, I had a lot of preexisting knowledge of that stuff and just kind of went a little deeper.

[00:20:34] I went actually to, um, I went to the Monterey Bay aquarium and they have a deep sea exhibit there and, you know, looked at some of the creepy animals and stuff. And so we will definitely see some elements of things like that in the book. Nice. Yeah. Well, I, I do just want to let you know that one of my favorite deep sea creatures is the Yeti crab. Yes. So. The big fuzzy crab. Well, yes, yes. They're awesome.

[00:21:03] I know exactly what you're talking about. They have these giant like spider crabs at the Monterey Bay aquarium and they're as big as me. And I'm looking at this thing like face to face across this glass and I'm like, this is the most literally horrifying thing I've ever seen in my life is this. If this was not in water in glass behind me, I would, I would pass out in fear right now. Uh, so this, I mean, just naturally, I think kind of like, you know, being in space makes

[00:21:33] things scary cause you're in space and there's no place to go. So I think being underwater in a sub makes things a little bit more heightenly scary, but also there's things in that water that want to eat and kill you. So I think it adds that layer of like fear. And I've always been a little bit afraid of the water and afraid of not, not water itself, but anything that could possibly live in the water. Um, so I've always had this like, oh my God, I don't want to get into this lake or river

[00:22:03] or hot tub because something's going to get in there and bite me. Um, so yeah, that was a big motivator for me for this series was like, Hey, let me get some of these fears that I have out and put them into this, this book. Yeah. Um, I've, um, I've, I mean, I don't like things in the water. Uh, I mean, I don't mind them. I will get in the water. Uh, by I've been, I mean, I've been like, you know, I've been stung by a stingray before

[00:22:33] I've been stung by a jellyfish. No, I would. Things in the water definitely don't like me. I would never go back. I don't, I don't know if I've ever told the story on the podcast before, but one of the worst pain I have ever felt in my life was getting stung by a stingray. Um, my, uh, uh, you know, just in, just cause we're talking about underwater things. Yeah. Um, was 19 is a picture it Florida, 1998. Yeah. I sound like my own little version of Sophia, Sophia Petrillo.

[00:23:03] Um, yeah. So my, my grandfather had, uh, recently passed away and my grandmother was packing up their house in Florida to move everything up to where we were in, my parents were in Pennsylvania. So my friend John flew down with me and we were going to back, pack up her stuff and drive it up in a U-Haul. And we had a couple of days in Florida. We went to the Gulf of Mexico. Uh, I think we were at Madeira beach or Reddington beach.

[00:23:32] And there was a sign about stingrays. And, um, I was like, Oh, maybe we'll see a stingray. That'll be neat. Not knowing that like they just sometimes sit like right under the sand. And I, um, you know, barefoot. Ugh. And I stepped on the sand was squishy. Yeah. And my buddy, my buddy cast was like, uh, maybe 20 feet ahead of me. And I was like, cast this, the sand's squishy here. Is that weird?

[00:23:57] And then I felt like something cut the back of my ankle. And that hurt a little bit. Um, I didn't never saw the stingray, but I, I yelled and I was like, you know, I got out of the water and I looked and there was like a clean cut. It wasn't bleeding too much just across the back of my ankle. And I'm like, something got me. And he, you know, cast was like, cause it was like maybe glass or I'm like, no, I think that I think something, you know, got me a crab. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it was a stingray.

[00:24:27] And I didn't realize like stingrays barbs have poison. Um, by within, I'd say we started to walk back to the car and I would say within five minutes, uh, because the poison travels the lymphatic system. It felt like somebody was trying to shove a, it's not as fast. Yeah. Yeah. So it felt like somebody was trying to shove a softball in my groin and it was, it, it, it hurt bad, like bad.

[00:24:56] Like how I went to the emergency room and they're like, they're like, Oh, stingray, stingray got you. And yeah. Do they give you anything or just say good luck? No, they, they, uh, they said soak it in hot water and they gave me a, like a prescription for an antibiotic. And that was, that was it. And I had to ride it out for like, I don't know, two or three hours until the pain went away. So yeah, but I don't like things. I don't like things in the water.

[00:25:23] I'm more so I have the loss of phobia, which is like a deep and intense fear of like deep water, like just the water itself. I don't even like my kids will put something on where they're underwater filming whales and just seeing that underwater, like fill up the whole TV screen. Just that infinite depth. Yeah. Freaky. So yeah. I mean, crush depth. I'm, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's triggering a lot of my fears, the claustrophobia of the

[00:25:52] submarine, the, the deep water. Well, and that's kind of, you know, the, our main character Liana is, is you can tell in the first issue, she's a little bit ruled by fear, you know? And so, um, that's what we're kind of exploring in this series is like, you know, how do you overcome fears, you know? And usually to overcome fears, you have to face them and go through them. You know, you can't keep avoiding them your whole life or they'll stay, you know, they'll stay a fear.

[00:26:21] Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's cool that we're talking about fears because that is a lot of this book is, is based on like, okay, how, how scared do you have to be before you turn around and start facing it instead of running away? Yeah. That's, I mean, that's, that's a tough question to answer. Right. But you're on a sub, you can't run very far. So no, no, no, not at all.

[00:26:48] No, I mean, but, and you've really loaded this up because, you know, you also are dealing with, they don't know what the surface is. Right. They, they, they've been down there so long. They just know that it, they believe it's toxic. It still could be. And also that idea of isolation. I mean, that's one of the things that made like invasion of the, the body snatchers, the seventies one, so terrifying.

[00:27:15] Like the fact that there's less and less and less like humans, that feeling of like isolation and being alone. Like that's a whole other issue, not just the claustrophobia or the water or what's in it. The idea that like what's left of humanity is something I'm sure they're also struggling with. Yeah. And that's, it triggers a lot of things, David. You know, that's, you know, how, you know, half the crew, you know, are like, let's go check it out.

[00:27:44] You know, you're, you know, sick of being in the sub and you know, half is like, I don't know, this is our safe place. Let's stay here. So again, there's a lot of that, like risk versus reward sort of, uh, you know, conversations that they're having. Yeah. Um, what following up Morningstar was this, you know, was this something that you had, uh, like a story you wanted to tell or wanted to do, or was it a situation of, Hey, Tim and I really enjoyed, we really enjoyed working together.

[00:28:12] We want to pitch something else to Mad Cave. And like, this is just what Mad Cave was interested in. Well, you know, Tim and I have been working together pretty consistently for, you know, almost five years now. Um, and so we're just gonna work together. You know, we're just, you know, um, attached at the hip now. And we, this is just one of several things that we had developed. Um, when we pitched to Mad Cave, we pitched them several things at the same time.

[00:28:40] And, um, one of them was Morningstar and one of them was Crushed Depth. So we actually signed a multiple book deal. Uh, when we, um, when we started, uh, working with Mad Cave. Um, Morningstar was the most prepped and ready to go. So that one got green, like moved to the front of our queue. And then, you know, and the in development process, you know, Crushed Depth kind of moved along next.

[00:29:09] And then we'll see what comes after that. Um, Oh, good. Yeah. Tim and I just are constantly, you know, we've been kind of in production mode for a little while. Because, you know, we've had Morningstar going and a couple other series going. And, you know, we were working on, um, you know, together on End After End and Denizen over at Vault. Uh, we did Creepshow together. Uh, just a short Creepshow, but still we're working on that. And so we've been in kind of production mode for a while.

[00:29:39] And now these scripts are all out of our hands. And now we're switching back over to creation and pitch mode. So we're coming up with five or six new things to start, uh, to start pitching around together. So hopefully this is just, you know, the third or fourth thing and many, many other things you're going to see from Tim and I. Oh, fantastic. Well, I'm on board.

[00:30:03] Um, you know, uh, as you, you know, go along in your writing and career, um, are there things from the beginning of it? You know, like when you first started out having to pitch or having to do stuff like this, like podcasts and promote and sell yourself. Are there things that have gotten, you know, easier that you found more comfortable? Um, and are there things that have gotten like more tedious?

[00:30:33] Has that shifted at all? Or has it always kind of been the same for you? Um, I would, the nice thing about working with Tim is that I've offloaded all the stuff I don't like onto his plate. That's nice. Good for you. Yes. Since he's not joining us on the podcast today, I can say, no. But, but honestly, like he's really good at the stuff that I suck at. You know, he's a, he's a much more meticulous person. He's, he's much more detail oriented and thorough.

[00:31:00] He's really good at crafting pitches and. You know, he's just, you know, he's been in the industry forever. And he's seen, you know, he works at vault and he's seen pitch after pitch after pitch come in. He knows what a good pitch looks like. He knows what a bad pitch looks like. Um, he, he, he's a, you know, he's an artist as well. So he, you know, does all the logos and he usually will come up with key images for our series that really help guide our series.

[00:31:29] Um, when we're in development. Um, so he'll put together, you know, he's put pitch packages together for Netflix and, you know, for, for take stuff out that way too. So he's got a really good sense of what works and what doesn't work with that. And I absolutely suck at it. You know, I'm doing a word document, you know, trying to explain this stuff. And he puts a couple of images together with like a couple of, uh, a really cool, uh, like taglines and a little paragraph summary.

[00:31:58] And it's like, oh, that's so much better than anything I could ever come up with. So what's really nice about having a writer partner is we kind of both bolster each other in the things that we don't like to do. You know, um, I'm a really quick and kind of decisive writer. Like I'll just go and I'll just put stuff down and I'll, I'll be pretty happy with it and I'll move on. Um, and, and Tim likes to really noodle and kind of pick things apart and like, see if he can do connections and things like that.

[00:32:27] So it's really nice for me to, to get an idea for him or we discuss an idea together. We develop it together and then I'll, I'll get a first pass going and, and, and get some stuff down into the world and then he can start moving stuff around. Um, so I actually like all the parts now. Like I love coming on podcasts and talking about comics. I, I, I'll do interviews. I'll do, um, I'll write scripts like a madman. Um, and now that I don't have to do like the pitches and stuff.

[00:32:56] Um, I think the most tedious thing is probably social media and just try to get people to buy your fricking book, you know, cause you put so much work into it and you put so much of your heart into it. And there's so much noise out there in the comic space. You know, you got, you got DC doing absolute launches and X-Men doing reboots and, you know, really hard to get eyeballs on an indie book.

[00:33:22] Um, especially a lot of stores don't even carry, you know, indie titles that often, you know, because there's so many big two that they have to buy for the average customer.

[00:33:34] So I think, I think that's the kind of a little bit of the heartbreaking and a little bit of the, the discouraging part is that, you know, you really, I fully believe that a lot of people would like what we have put out if they would just give it a chance and read it. So it's almost like I want to walk around shoving my book into people's face. They just give it a chance, read it, read it. Um, you know, not everyone's going to like everything.

[00:34:03] So that's, you know, like I said before, that's, it's no big deal if someone doesn't like it, but I want people to be, be just know it's exists and like, okay, I want to try that and see if they like it. Um, so that's the only frustrating thing is like, you want people to actually read what you wrote. Cause that's why you wrote it. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I feel like, I feel like my, the local comic shop where I go, um, I mean, they have a pretty decent, selection, but it's not a ton of indie stuff.

[00:34:33] Um, actually recently, um, I've been seeing more and more of like mad cave stuff out, like on, like for new comic book day. And I'm going to take credit for it. I feel like I've been putting so much mad cave stuff on my pull list. Beating the drama every time you come in there. Yeah. I've been putting so much mad cave stuff on my pull list. I think they started just like, what is, does Jimmy know something? And I'm like, I do. So I'm going to take credit for it, even though I don't know if I'm going to. I think, I think, I think one person can do that.

[00:35:00] Honestly, I think if, if, I think if you love indie comics, like enough to watch, you know, this podcast or, you know, get to your comic shop and like, say like, Hey, I think you guys should carry more of this stuff. It's really good. And, you know, put it on your pull list to make sure you pick up your copies and stuff like that. Cause, um, comic book shops want to make money and they kind of know how much they're going to, you know, they can sell that Marvel DC stuff, but if they can sell a little extra stuff, they'll do that too.

[00:35:28] Um, so, and I think mad cave has been really smart with keeping their really truly creator owned unique indie voices and independent stories. At the same time, they're doing stuff like, you know, Dick Tracy. And, uh, and so, and so of course, Dick Tracy, people are going to turn their heads and go, what Dick Tracy? Everyone knows that name.

[00:35:56] So you're going to get a little attention to your, yourself as a publisher and then see what else is this publisher doing? Like, wow, they do all this other stuff. Um, so, you know, I think some publishers, when they start to do that licensed stuff, all the other kind of smaller indie stuff goes away. Um, and I think mad caves has really shown a good commitment to, I think, quality stories and independent creators, um, letting them tell their stories.

[00:36:22] So I think that's really cool how they've done that, how they maintain that balance of, you know, a licensed stuff, um, YA stuff, all ages stuff, and then true indie, indie stuff like Morningstar and Crush Depth. Yeah, and, and that's, that's what I love about, like, you know, I've covered a lot of mad cave stuff, you know, this past year. And, you know, as long as people come on, I'll continue to do so.

[00:36:47] But I really, you know, I don't know, I don't get a ton of time to watch movies or TV. I don't even get a ton of time to, like, read, but I still try and make a point. I, because I, I, I do love comics, and I just find that that's some of the most interesting storytelling, you know, that I get, you know, still get my hands on. Um, I just love, you know, I, I just, I just love the weird stuff.

[00:37:14] Like, the stuff that I, that's unexpected, and I don't know, you get a really good mix. Like, you'll get stuff that's, like, fun mashups, and that's, like, kind of familiar, but different. And, and I just, yeah, I think, I just really enjoy it. I think comics are still the one media source you could really explore, you know, and films have gotten kind of priced out and expensive. You know, even though people can shoot them on their iPhones now, I think we don't get as many, like, weird little films.

[00:37:40] We don't get as many weird little TV shows, but we still get a bunch of weird little comics. So, I think that's really fun. I, I like stuff like that. Like, I just read, uh, the first couple issues, issues of Spectrum, um, that's coming out through Mad Cave as well. And it's so weird. It's so different than anything I would possibly think of. I'm like, that's cool. I mean, I, I know how my brain works, but this is cool seeing how other people's brains work. Yeah, I really like that one. Um, that's Dave Chisholm and, uh, Rick Quinn, I think. Um, yeah.

[00:38:10] And it's just like, wow, this is so interesting and different. And, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm totally here for indie comics. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I, I feel the same way. I just, I just reread, uh, Jason Copeland's Full Tilt. Yeah, man. Like, I, I got the big hard cover. Yeah, did you get your, when you were your wrist braces when you, when you read it so you could hold that whole thing? I had one of my kids hold it and turn the pages for me. That's why you have children. Yes. That is.

[00:38:40] Yes. Yeah, man. I mean, he did spend how many years producing that thing and just like put it out himself. That's like total baller status. That, that thing's amazing. I mean, it's, it's just. But that's it. It is so good. Yeah. And one of the things I, like it, it did have familiar elements, you know, like some guy who's kind of gotten set up. He's got to get to a place and he's got to do this and there's the mob and there's all these.

[00:39:03] But it is one, some of the double, like, uh, double page splashes in it. Right. Are unreal. Yeah. But he has populated that with so many, like just weird little guys. Right. Like, like they're just like, it was, it was already, it was already long. It could have been way longer. It felt like he was going so fast in that, in that book.

[00:39:28] And I'm like, you could slow down this a little bit and fill it with more pages, but we would never, ever get that book. So yeah, I'm glad he stopped. You know, he stopped when he did. So we actually get it. But man, like there's a ton of stuff going on in that book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so with crush depth, uh, to kind of, to get back and talk a little bit more about, about crush depth.

[00:39:53] Um, and I'm always kind of interested in this and I probably, I might've asked you this before in terms of some of the stuff you've done, but as you add on to these series, like, um, you know, when you're generating ideas and you're pitching a couple different things, like, do you like go and think about whether or not there's any type of like link thematically with your work or. You know, something in particular you want to explore or is, is it just more of a sense of, I think this could make a good story.

[00:40:22] Um, I, I, I definitely, um, don't try to link my work, but I definitely try to find some kind of theme, you know, something that I want to explore like beer, like in, in Morningstar. It was that, you know, just kind of sense of like family separation, kind of like in resonant, you know, um, you're, I think themes are just the things that are going to be in you anyways. They're going to come out.

[00:40:50] And like, as long as you're aware of that stuff and you kind of lean into that stuff, like we have two brothers in this series, you know, um, we're working on something else right now. That will probably be the next thing that gets announced that has two brothers in it. It, it, it, you might find out that me and Tim have issues with our own brothers. So yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:14] If once you start being kind of introspective and knowing like, all right, this is the stuff that's going to be in there anyways, might as well just lean into it. Um, yeah. A lot of it is like, Hey, I want to explore this theme or this kind of this vibe or this situation or this feeling or whatever, you know? And, and, you know, Tim's a big horror fan. So I, you know, I like to support him and like what he, he wants to do. I'm a big sci-fi, you know, and like fantasy fans.

[00:41:43] So you can see that's what we've done so far. We've done fantasy and sci-fi and, and everything with the horror with a, with a little bit of a horror twist. Um, and so that's like, you know, we're big fans of, you know, like, like we talked about with Morningstar of all the Spielberg stuff, which has all those elements, right? Family and sci-fi and a little bit of scary stuff. Um, and, and so it, it's just kind of our wheelhouse, what we like to do.

[00:42:09] This is definitely pushing my boundaries into horror. Um, you know, cause this is going to lean into more body horror and like seeing the thing at a young age way before I should have like scarred me severely. And like the images of those dogs and things coming out of them, like I, I didn't get over that for a very, very long time.

[00:42:34] Um, and so like bringing some of that into this, into this comics is kind of my way to exercise that demons. I actually rewatched the thing a couple of months ago after watch, after writing most of Christ's death. I'm like, okay, I can handle this now. Yeah. I mean, that, that is, I mean, a wonderful film, but man, yes. I see in that at, at too young of an age would, would just, would just mess you up. Yeah. I think.

[00:43:05] That, cause there, that was, that was not, there are just so many, there, there are so many just terrible, terribly, terribly horrible things that happen in that. And I'm like, all right, let's make some terrible, terrible, horrible things happen in this book too. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think it's just kind of whatever you get, you know, a lot of people say I have this cool idea for a comic.

[00:43:30] Well, you know, I think everyone gets cool ideas for stuff all the time and maybe that's just how my brain works. It's the stuff that really sticks that you keep coming back to that. You can't get out of your head. That's like, man, I really want to do this fricking monster on a submarine story and you just can't let it go. And, and, and once it like keeps bouncing back, like I don't, a lot of people keep notepads around so they can take down ideas like when they have them. And I've tried to do that and I read it back later.

[00:44:00] I've like tied to a chair with a banana. I'm like, what does that even mean? And so that doesn't, that's a different list. That's a different list. That was, oh, that was my wish list. Nevermind. But like, I think the stuff that you can't forget about is the stuff that, that I want to write about that. Like I, I just, this idea has been like bounce around in my head for years and I just have to get it out. And, um, you know, and, and I think Tim's the same way.

[00:44:26] He has, he has just oodles and oodles of old, uh, pitches and ideas and stuff that have worked through various levels of development and like sit there. And, and then we decide which one we're going to pull out and play around with. And if it, if we both get excited about it, if we're both like, heck yeah, I want to work on that, then we work on it. And if we're not both excited about it, then we don't. And we find something else. Yeah. I mean, I, I think that makes a lot of sense.

[00:44:55] Um, well, I, I think so for the work that the two of you have done together, um, has just been tremendous in, in, in the indie comic space. Um, I mean, comics in, in general, I would put your guys stuff up against anybody, you know, working in comics today. Thank you. Um, I just, it's morning star and, uh, you know, I really love, but you know, particularly your work.

[00:45:21] I still tell everybody who mentions that they haven't read a comic in a while. I like, go get resonant. I'll buy you resonant. What is your address? I will send you resonant. Um, I mean, I just think I still, I still point a lot of folks in the, in that direction. But yeah, I, I love the first issue of Crush Depth. I can't wait to see where it goes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's five issue series. Um, I think.

[00:45:49] I, I really hope people pick this up and stick with it to the end. I think it's really fun and, um, totally gross. And if you like, if you like things like the abyss, like the thing, you know, if you're like alien or aliens, you know, that, um, those movies, not just the creatures from outer space. Uh, this is going to be totally your vibe and, um, is really, really, really fun to work on and, um, put a bunch of friends names in there so I could say, Hey, look, I killed you on this

[00:46:18] page. And, uh, everybody wants to get killed in a comic book, man. They're like, can I, can you put me in a comic book? I'm all hell. Yeah. You're in Crush Depth and you get killed. Yep. I, although I, I will say I made the mistake of I, my friend Grant, the way he did. He wrote SideQuest and, uh. Which is great. Which is great, by the way. I love SideQuest. Yeah. I, I love it. I loved it. And, um, I backed it at a level where I got to be drawn into it.

[00:46:48] And I said, look, if you're going to kill my character, I just hope it's not, like, he's not decapitated. Yeah, not the face. And, yeah, that's what happened to me. Oh, great. That's what happened to my character. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Damn it. The character who looks like me gets decapitated. So, you know. It was still, it was still Money Well Spent. Yeah. I very, I really enjoyed having my, uh, my likeness in a comic.

[00:47:13] Um, so it was, um, I will say one of the other things, just cause we talked about the Spielberg and Stephen King of it all with, with Morningstar. Yeah. Um, but like in the, I want to say, you know, late eighties, early nineties, when I was just starting to get into like horror movies there, it felt like there was a run of horror movies, um, that were all set with, you know, underwater. Oh yeah.

[00:47:40] Where it was either like an alien or a monster or, you know, the abyss was like the good, the best science fiction version of it. Deep Star Six. Yes. Deep. Yeah. And then there was Leviathan. I worked at a video store. I know all of these. Yeah. I mean, and I, I, they used to be on late at night and I would watch like everyone. Um, yeah, I don't know why there was, you know, Hollywood had a real hankering for putting

[00:48:08] Greg Evigan underwater in a monster movie. But yeah, I was a huge, I mean, I love, I still love the abyss. I'll still watch the abyss every couple of years and such a, like such a great movie with such a weird ending. Um, it's, it's, yeah, it's really cool. And it like really cemented my love of like underwater stories and stuff. And yeah, if you watch underwater with Kristen Stewart, that's pretty good too. That was not bad. I haven't seen that yet. Yeah.

[00:48:38] I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll put that up to the top of the list. Way better than I thought it was going to be. All right. Well, I'll have to check it out. Um, if I can, you know, I'll just have to hide my eyes if, if it too underwater. Um, but David, I, I so much appreciate you coming on the podcast again. Um, listeners crushed up the final order cutoff is going to be, I think February 24th. So when you're listening to this episode, um, if you're listening to it, when it comes

[00:49:07] out, you should have plenty of time to let your local comic book shop know that you want a copy of crushed up. It's the best way to guarantee that you're going to get the issue, but also, um, you know, it, your shop, if you want your shop to carry more indie comics, the best thing to do is to let them know that you want to read indie comics. So let them know that, you know, add crushed up to your pull list. Um, that's what I'm going to do. And, uh, the issue will be out in March.

[00:49:34] Um, so, uh, yeah, um, um, I can't wait. I just am very excited to see what you and Tim and Alex, uh, along with the rest of the creative team, Curt and Justin do with this one. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, man, it's, it's one of those that really, you know, Alex is great, uh, through the whole thing, but at the, these last couple of issues, like as these last couple of pages

[00:50:00] coming in, you're like, damn, you are flexing now. This is just like, just amazing, cruel, creepy, disgusting stuff. Um, like him and Curt are just absolutely destroying these, uh, the last couple of issues. I'm, I'm so excited. Like every time a page comes in, um, to like check it out, like I'm going to get to be a fan now because my job is done. I'm like, this is so awesome. Oh, well, I can't wait.

[00:50:30] Uh, I can't wait. Listeners. If you, uh, check out Crush Depth, please find me on blue sky or, or TikTok. Let me know, uh, what, what you, you know, that you got it, that you're reading it, what you think of it. Let me know what else it is that you're, you're checking out, especially if there's, you know, a creator that you want to hear on the, uh, talk about the comics on the podcast. Let me know. Um, a shout out to my brother, Bobby, the cryptic creator corners. Number one, most dedicated fan Bobby listens to all my episodes. Uh, Bobby wants to know, are we, are we going to get a dead blood too?

[00:50:59] He, he wanted me to ask Bobby, Bobby, I'm trying, man. Chris, Chris is working on it. Uh, he's got, I think 18, somewhere 16, 18 pages done. So we're getting, it getting close. It's that dang kid he's got is really slowing him down. Um, but yeah, we are hopefully going to get it done next year. Uh, we, we wanted to get it done this year, but it just did not work out.

[00:51:24] Um, but yeah, dead blood and I've already, I've already got dead blood three plotted out. I know what's going to happen in dead blood four. And then, uh, you know, we'll probably die of old age by then, but at least get out number two next year is, is really the goal. Um, uh, cause that's, that's, that's like my little, my little, my little passion project. That's a little, my little, just pure joy to work on.

[00:51:54] Uh, yeah. Speaking of, speaking of weird little guys, I mean, dead blood. Yeah. That's a weird little guy. That sure is a weird little guy. Yeah. What the ghost of your vestigial twin brother is, is strange. Who thought that that, I don't know. Yeah. Ugh. Uh, well, well, uh, we can't wait. We're going to check out crush depth. Um, David, thank you so much for coming on the podcast that listeners. Thank you for listening. Uh, I will see you next time.

[00:52:24] This is Byron O'Neill. One of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate review, subscribe all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Bye.

[00:52:54] Bye. Bye. Bye.