David Hazan talks Kosher Mafia

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview. Hey Comics Fam!

[00:00:14] There's a realm-trodding dystopian fantasy adventure that cleverly explores Norse mythology sound up your alley? It sure does mine, so I was excited to see one of my favorite comic creators Eisner and Harvey award-winning Michael Avon Oming is launching a new Kickstarter project collecting issues

[00:00:30] one through five of his creator-owned series After the Realm in July. I just got a chance to get an early peek and it's fantastic with over 300 pages of material including 22 new pages of story. It follows a young rebellious ranger named Una Lightfoot

[00:00:45] trying to find her best friend. As the tale of friendship and destiny unfolds, the nine realms are torn asunder with Loki up to his usual trouble-making self, of course. It should come as no surprise at this point that the cast of unusual characters Michael

[00:00:58] created in the book includes some anthropomorphic animals. But I can't say I've ever seen them riding roughshod across the land in many tanks a la Mad Max Fury Road before, so I'm so here for it.

[00:01:10] Perky, slightly beautifully unhinged and completely engrossing, the immediate analogs to me were the Legend of Zelda meets the mighty Thor with Norse underpinnings for perspective. Michael is handling both the riding and the artwork duties with Takisoma on colors

[00:01:23] and Sean Lee lettering the project. Head on over to Kickstarter and make sure you back this cuz it's epic. Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again! I should have known better

[00:01:41] than to mention that I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in

[00:01:52] gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing. Another friend chimes in, are you gonna make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together

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[00:02:33] book. Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code Yeti5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show.

[00:02:45] I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a Goblin Warlock just to get even. Hello, welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner podcast. I'm one of your hosts Jimmy Gispero and I have, I'm very excited that I have a returning guest. I love when people

[00:03:01] have such a fun time that they're willing to come back or maybe their publisher is just strong arming them to get out and promote their book. I don't know what you did. I'm gonna say

[00:03:11] it's the former rather than the latter but I am such a fan of the work of this writer and comic creator had such a fun interesting talk when they were on the program last and we have a

[00:03:26] ton of great stuff to talk about. Please welcome back to the podcast David Hazon. David, how having me back. I'm doing great. How are you? I'm fantastic. I'm a little, I'm a little tired.

[00:03:44] It's, you know, nine o'clock at night where I am on the east coast in the US. I imagine you're somewhere in Australia wherever you hunker down to write. Yeah, I'm on the east coast of Australia

[00:04:00] and it's currently 11 a.m. here so I'm bright and peppy today, you know? Good, good. All right, well, since you were last on the podcast we have plenty to talk about. Currently right now

[00:04:17] as we record this I think the third volume of Nottingham is coming out. I think issue 12 just came out last week. Issue 12 just dropped last week, yeah. Okay and so we have issues 13, 14 and

[00:04:31] 15 which will wrap up that Nottingham, which is wild. Yeah, I mean it's been like sort of the endeavor of the last five years of my life which is a little wild but here we are at the end.

[00:04:50] Yeah, you were kind enough to send me over a little, you know, that I could take a peek at Nottingham and I keep saying Nottingham and then Nottingham, like I keep dropping the age so

[00:05:04] I'm going to keep doing that everybody. I'm sorry it's late, I'm trying my best but you know what comic I'm talking about listeners. Man, just you and Shane Connery-Volk, the work that the

[00:05:19] two of you and the rest of the team have done on that. I mean it, I don't even know, I mean I don't want to like spoil anything but for folks who are listening this who have been following along or who

[00:05:34] you know someone else who has read comics who told them oh you have to read this and it's one you're you know to be read pile get on it get volumes one and two because this is just some

[00:05:47] phenomenal phenomenal writing and artwork that goes into these last couple of issues. I mean it is intense and I don't know, I really like I didn't get to like fully engross myself in it I kind

[00:06:06] of went through things like fairly quickly just to get a sense of what was happening but I feel like it is a comic book that is as close to a cinematic experience

[00:06:19] that that I have come across and I not to compare comic books and movies but I just mean that in the way where you know sometimes when you're in a movie theater the lights are down

[00:06:31] you got that big screen in front of you and you can you just feel totally like wrapped up and lost in that vision and I feel like Nottingham does that in such a beautiful beautiful intense

[00:06:46] way. It's what it's no it's what I love to hear is like as a creator you know and the the thing about Nottingham I rarely feel like at the end when I turn in a script that like okay

[00:07:03] I've nailed this one and that's just you know a factor of being a creator usually means your hyper self-critical but that last issue I feel like I feel like I stuck the landing

[00:07:21] and I think I'm really excited for people to read it and to hear their thoughts on it because it's hard to do this in a vacuum so yeah oh I'm sure yeah I don't know what to say

[00:07:41] you know without kind of like diving into it too much because there's still three issues to come out but it's the work between you and Shane I mean it it it is just it works so well

[00:08:03] together I mean the rest of the creative team as well because the lettering in it is absolutely incredible um yeah I mean like working with Shane, Luca, Justin, Brian and Chaz it's just been like

[00:08:22] it's just easy and it's like you know I've had other creative collaborations which have felt easy but nothing like this it's just like uh it feels seamless at this point it feels like

[00:08:37] you know I feel like we're definitely putting the reps that's for sure not to use any sort of sports or exercise metaphor but um it's definitely like a practiced confidence right but it's also you know just a delightful experience every single time every single

[00:09:00] time I you know turn in a script and get notes or um see art come back or get little messages from Luca going you bastard when he reads the next script it's great I just have a blast doing it

[00:09:16] you know and it's very sad uh that uh you know we're hitting the end of it but uh also feel very proud of the last you know five years worth of stories including including our free comic book

[00:09:30] day stuff and the tales from Nottingham and tales from the cave um and uh really excited to see what people think of the finale well I think you should be I mean incredibly proud I mean this is

[00:09:45] something for listeners who didn't listen to the last episode or aren't familiar um I mean this you went from the man cave talent search to not just I mean I this is what I think sometimes

[00:10:01] folks might not appreciate not not just from you turning in a script and being that talent search winner um but some creators have you know when they first started doing it you know

[00:10:13] got to like pitch a series but I don't think anybody really has gotten to the point with 15 issues plus other writers other young indie writers like up and coming writers have come in

[00:10:26] to do the tales from Nottingham which every one of them was great and has had some great writers and artists working on those stories as well what I think is so interesting about it one I think

[00:10:41] it's I always am impressed because I think it's incredibly hard to do period stuff really well I mean I just that's my own thing I don't know if that's true because I'm not an artist or from

[00:10:51] an artist or a writer's perspective but you know I feel that that can be its own challenge in and of itself like an added layer on top of it but I just feel like where every time you have to

[00:11:06] make a choice as a writer I don't know how you feel about your own work but I feel that when you could go a certain way that would still serve the story I feel like you consistently make

[00:11:17] the unsafe choice and I feel like it has always worked Shane's artwork complements it so well because there is such a brutality to this already like brutal world and I feel like there is not

[00:11:36] a shot from an arrow or a slice of the sword that is like a throw away you feel like every single one every single one there is like an absolute impact to it like just

[00:11:52] a visceral impact that comes across in the motion that's depicted the facial acting and just and those two elements with the two of you it is just it has just created something that yes you

[00:12:06] and the entire team should just be incredibly proud of that those 15 issues and that and the Tales from Nottingham series will be out there and I bet as your career goes on it's going to

[00:12:19] be one of those things that people keep you know discovering like somebody will have missed it and a year two years from now they'll find something they'll read something of yours that they like and they'll like oh what else is David done and they're going to discover Nottingham

[00:12:35] and what what a joy that will be for them yeah I often like have that fantasy of like the things that you know pieces of media that I love that you know you wish you could almost

[00:12:50] enjoy from scratch again sure and you could just wipe it out of your brain so you could enjoy the you know the journey yeah so I get that and I think that you commented about making unsafe

[00:13:03] choices I think that's the only way to go when you're you know on the most well trod of of ground in terms of the source material right I mean there's not you know like the only other thing

[00:13:22] that has probably come close in terms of you know at least the breadth of and length of storytelling at least in you know modern western mythos right is King Arthur so between King Arthur

[00:13:35] and Robin Hood like how you know you always think well how many stories are there left to tell and the answer is if you take hard left turns and you make unsafe choices and you take risks

[00:13:47] plenty there's always plenty you know and then this is what I say about superhero fatigue right it's the same thing which is that you just got to be bold and and try something new I don't think superhero fatigue actually exists to me I think it's a myth uh

[00:14:08] I and I feel like it's just about you know making different storytelling choices I mean we've had you know at this point we're bordering on between 80 and 100 years of superhero comics and I'm like

[00:14:24] well there are still stories to tell in terms of translating them into other media so it is the same it's true for our you know world trod fairy tales and other people are doing it you can see you know fantastic work in you know uh uh

[00:14:43] once in future for example everybody's yeah it's just you know working with source material that people love and trying to find new ways and new things to draw out of it it's it's

[00:14:57] really fun yeah I know I I mean I uh I will say I think there is a bit of truth to the the idea of superhero fatigue but only in the sense of like we'll kind of piggyback off of what you said

[00:15:15] I think it's only in the sense of of not making like bold choices like when you just see kind of like the same pattern of things um I think it just the story can come become a bit stale and I think

[00:15:31] that's the issue when you have a like even a classic superhero and you have a like a new take on it or are willing to push it into a different and unsafe direction I think there's always going to be an

[00:15:45] audience around for something like that and I think folks do you know there is a certain comfort in those same things that we like whether it not it's from nostalgia or something that feels that does

[00:15:58] feel safe but I think more often than not folks really want to see something that they haven't seen quite before or something familiar but in a totally new direction and then just needs people

[00:16:10] to kind of push it to there and there's a place for that comfort food style storytelling don't get me wrong yeah but if you can mobilize that comfort food and then still manage to subvert

[00:16:25] expectations and surprise people you're on to a winning combination yeah so that's what that's what I always come back to you know there are a few guiding principles that I come back to

[00:16:33] whenever I sit down to write an audience story and those are the sorts of things that I think about and hopefully they resonate with people they seem to be but yeah I think they do but maybe

[00:16:46] we'll circle back to to nodding them in a bit but I know that I wanted to talk about your newest series which is coming out I think issue one is going to drop August 1st 7th I believe

[00:17:00] August 7th sorry I was looking I was thinking of number one and I said first but August 7th with mad cave this is uh kosher mafia and um you're working with sammy cavella I just love

[00:17:19] love sammy cavella's work um and I think um I believe it's being I mean you'll know better than me I have the thing here in front of me but uh it's being colored by ellie right ellie right uh

[00:17:33] and let us buy some embo and yeah yeah so fantastic creative team again love simons work love ellie writes coloring um phenomenal phenomenal colorist but sammy cavella I

[00:17:49] some of the stuff I'm just such a huge huge fan of um uh the name of the series just went out of my head but he did something with uh ryan k lindsay which I really like oh yeah dear editor

[00:18:03] yeah there was a series yeah there was another one um oh my god it just went right out of my head I'm gonna kick myself off to look it up uh but yeah and I think sammy also did the undone by blood

[00:18:18] with Zach tomson and lani nadler um yeah so but kosher mafia so we we go from what 11 90 the 11 80s 11 90s to it in england to 19 19 30s america um is anyone ever like david why why don't you write

[00:18:44] about australia I mean if if somebody wants to throw money at me to write about australia or write about australia um but no so now we this is kosher mafia this is 1936 we're dealing with

[00:19:07] um jewish mobsters organized crime in america um yeah so kind of how did this how did this series come about tell me about it um you know what uh it it's had you know it's been in my head for

[00:19:26] for a hot minute uh about three years um and uh I think I originally pitched it elsewhere and when mad cave opened up for creator owned um they were looking for something I already had this

[00:19:44] thing plotted out um and ready to go and I threw it their way and they like didn't just jump on board they leapt on board then and and uh pushed it all the way and I in terms of where the idea

[00:19:58] came from not quite sure um it started I think uh where I wanted to tell a story that was like when essentially a jewish story um and I I went from a jewish story to uh

[00:20:22] mid 30s late 30s cleveland ohio because that's where superman was created that's where our entire you know comic book industry came from uh and uh one thing led to another and eventually I had

[00:20:37] this like odd couple crime story did you have like uh like any I don't know like early like fascination with you know gangsters and mobsters that prohibition like us prohibition era was like you know

[00:20:55] where things like the god were you a fan of like the godfather or alcapone or once upon a time in america which is essentially like a jewish honestly I never really saw myself as a crime

[00:21:07] writer and then nodding him happened I was like oh yes this makes sense like it's like oh I am a lawyer like I all right yeah I just didn't know like I mean there's certain a period in my life um and a lot

[00:21:27] of my my friends like where we went through the a period where we were kind of a little bit fascinated with stories like the godfather scarface goodfellas uh you know when the sopranos

[00:21:42] first hit um so I just didn't know if that was like just something you liked like media you like to enjoy or if it was more about telling a kind of a jewish story and and then finding the

[00:21:54] setting later yeah I think it was the latter um I I don't think I was super engrossed in those things but I wasn't you know before I found comics I wasn't super engrossed in

[00:22:07] in I think I was sort of engrossed in comics related media but and I think it kind of bore out in the research where I was like oh Cleveland Ohio might be a good idea the next thing I found this like

[00:22:20] couple hundred page paper on uh like the rise of uh American domestic Nazism in Cleveland Ohio and it just like there was a richness to it and I was like oh I have to I have to do it this way yeah it's just about like finding the

[00:22:39] it I mean I take the same approach to I take the same approach to any sort of historical fiction these days uh it's an approach I learned from Nottingham where you find the ideas in the

[00:22:50] history and so you find the sort of raindrops that you want to dance in between in the history um and last I just had so much fun doing it and I like I'm happy to like you know

[00:23:05] we've got this one story uh set in sort of Cleveland in the 30s I want to I'm kind of on the on the train of trying to anthologize this in the sense that I just love to do

[00:23:19] a different time period a different place at you know a different set of Jewish mobsters and just keep doing it so please buy this book is what I'm saying because I got so many ideas

[00:23:33] all right let's take a quick break hey comics fan itty comic book publisher Banda bars just got a level up and announced it is now a cooperative this heralds a new era for them including a partnership with dollah stories and they added several new members to the

[00:23:50] ownership group marcus himenez is now chief operating officer Brent Fisher takes on the role of chief diversity officer and joey galvez is introduced as head of kickstarter ops and social media manager which is sure to increase their capabilities overall as a publisher

[00:24:06] and it further promotes their mission statement of advancing representation inclusion and diversity in the media they also established a new board of directors to help chart the new path of their journey with new projects in the works like Alaska by dropping in

[00:24:20] june unbroken soon launching on kickstarter and pond coming up with thoughtless stay tuned to this space for more exciting news from the growing bards family let's get back to the show well in

[00:24:35] terms of the the original the initial setup I mean we're we're introduced to it's mr gold kind of initially going to you know he says someone who he works with their house and the

[00:24:50] wife answers the door and he has beaten mr was it berkowitz whom and it the kind of the the we have a little bit of a flashback about who mr gold is which seems like he's certainly

[00:25:05] some type of enforcer for the the the jewish mob in cleveland and once mr berkowitz shows up there's a very interesting conversation that takes place between the two of them so you know it kind of

[00:25:26] unravels why mr gold is there to begin with and and what led to this series of events so it's disjointed in terms of the telling of it and deliciously so um i mean i

[00:25:42] loved it was ready for for issue two um i mean because i i think there are very i mean i can't think of many stories about like the the jewish mob that was active in the 30s but there were

[00:25:55] there are certainly i mean i essentially think i think murder ink was a really a uh a jewish organized crime unit and like i said once upon a time in america with robert in the arrow and

[00:26:09] james woods is essentially about jewish mobsters and things like boardwalk empire you know dealt a little bit with with uh with arnold rothstein who was pretty big he was like a mentor to like

[00:26:19] lucky luciano and bugsy seagull and some of those characters so um you know it's a fascinating period in time but then you also not just a crime story you connect it with the rise of

[00:26:33] nazism in germany in 1936 and um yeah i i cannot wait to see where it goes after the ending of issue one um yeah i just i thought it was fascinating and like i said sammies work on it

[00:26:53] and the rest of the creative team you know ellie and simon but it it that there is such a tension when the two of them are at that table yeah i like this is the this is i i think this whole

[00:27:09] issue uh works because of that right like i even like not to relate this back to nottingham but i'm gonna do it again like all all we're trying to do is is is find the tension and then like

[00:27:25] twang on the string a little bit you know yeah yeah that's that's what writing is like at its core we're just trying to find the tension between two people and like yeah on the string a little

[00:27:35] bit and so uh setting up this the tension where you don't know necessarily the beginning what the stakes are or why but you know this guy is pointing a gun uh at this sort of helpless hapless figure

[00:27:51] in his own home while his wife and children are upstairs it kind of really sets the tone but everything that's going to happen afterwards um uh i just i can't say how much uh fun it was the it's definitely the hardest thing i've ever written especially

[00:28:11] that first issue uh just like four or five drafts that i went to before i figured out how to get all the pieces where i needed them to be and still maintain that

[00:28:24] tension um yeah but um i feel like the characters are also just like so delicious in that like every time you put uh uh f from gold on the screen on the on the panel he's just gonna inhale the all the

[00:28:42] scenery uh in the same way that you know marion inhales the scenery whenever she's on the on the screen like it's the same and i it's writing those characters and setting them against characters

[00:28:56] who are like exactly the opposite of that is it's always fun it's and the devil's in the dialogue with that as well and it's uh it's it's great there's a couple of things i want to point out

[00:29:09] for you know listeners when you eventually pick this up on august 7th and you read it you'll if you remember this you'll know what i'm talking about but a couple of things i really liked

[00:29:19] um when uh when mr berkowitz gets i just can't remember the character's first name but when he gets how powered howard yeah when howard gets home and there's uh uh it could have been you know

[00:29:35] it's one of those things comics can be done a lot of different ways um you know to show you know to to deal with like the pacing and him getting in the door but there's just like two or

[00:29:48] three panels of him arriving right before he realizes you know gold is in his house and i just feel like like it's just the right amount to like slowly build like that moment i think there's

[00:30:03] like he walks up to the door i think there's like a focus on maybe his hat or something there's just a couple of panels and i really liked how that was done to kind of build up to that moment

[00:30:13] the other panel that i think is my favorite panel in all of issue one is when his wife howards wife goes to say something when howard first gets home and it's just like a panel of

[00:30:27] gold putting his finger up like telling him to be quiet and that that one that panel that shot of gold's face it is so good like that is fantastic that's my favorite every it's so every

[00:30:41] page that sammy like sammy turned in where where uh uh gold is on the page all i keep thinking is this man should be drawing 007 forever like yeah yeah yeah um it always surprises me i'm like why

[00:31:03] when sammy's like not you know having not done a lot of license work i'm like this seems like a slam dunk publishes what are you doing um yeah i agree i think you know what i think um i just i just

[00:31:19] it just popped into my head i knew it would later on but uh i think the the the series um no that's not the name of it darn it i thought i've had the name of the series that i was

[00:31:31] thinking of that he did with um ryan k lindsay that wasn't dear editor um but in any event it will eventually come to me yeah i i just really enjoyed it what what what what was you talked about research

[00:31:45] and i know like what was your research process like for this um a whole lot of internet research that's kind of how i usually i just start googling and you're going down as many

[00:31:58] wikipedia rabbit holes as i can find until the story sort of unfolds uh it's there's not a like a specific process it's definitely with these things sort of a trial and error and i'll

[00:32:14] jot down a bunch of ideas as i go and if that doesn't work then i'll like scrap it and move to the next one um but yeah i uh i just kind of start googling and see what happens um and whatever threads

[00:32:30] sort of jump out to me that i think are really compelling uh end up in the book and the rest don't were you initially oh sorry go ahead david oh yeah um because like the thing about historical

[00:32:43] fiction is that slavish accuracy is not what you're after you're after the sort of various the military to have like setting your story in that historical context but beyond that you get

[00:32:58] to play sort of as much as you want uh and uh the only thing you have to sort of worry about is if you deviate too far you have the opposite effect which people tend to sort of like

[00:33:11] if they bounce off uh something that feels out of place then you've got a problem but otherwise you sort of the world's your oyster or the past is your oyster as it were yeah

[00:33:24] was there anything i don't know what's kind of like the most surprising thing you uncovered about like your research you know i i just didn't know like your familiarity with like you know

[00:33:35] prohibition era america other than like maybe certain like movies or things you know i so i was just kind of curious was there anything that you were really surprised by in researching this the

[00:33:49] the period of the 30s in the us i think i was surprised by this sort of like depth of uh activity of all these uh nazi organizations from as early as the 20s i think it probably has a lot to do

[00:34:08] with uh sort of uh german immigration being like very strong especially in that area geographically but like you know you've got there's sort of like a bunch of different organizations and they just have this like really sorted history and i was like oh this is really juicy

[00:34:35] it's terrifying it's terrifying that like especially in our media we see nazism portrayed as an entirely european problem and yet you know organizations like uh the friends of new germany the silvershirt legion the german-american bond all of them were incredibly active across the

[00:34:59] united states but you know also specifically in middle america um and it's just like it's it's very resonant is what i was yeah like uh this is the the roots of organizations that we see

[00:35:19] today and uh you know that are out there carrying their tiki torches and it's terrifying yeah i mean i you mentioned the the german-american blood which i mean i'm you know familiar with uh in terms

[00:35:36] of history you think it was 1939 two years before the us you know enters world war two and there was a rally in the heart of new york madison square garden 22 000 members i mean that's wild to think

[00:35:52] about um and by that time people like maya lansky and such were actively organizing against uh uh things like that so yeah i wanted to kind of uh sort of predate that a little bit um and uh i think

[00:36:10] part of that was motivated by the sort of i needed the uh kosher nostra to kind of be uh not quite as active in defending their communities they ought to have been which

[00:36:25] i don't think would have surprised anyone but um you know uh it it sort of needed that that context before they started getting really actively involved right and you know later like not to

[00:36:39] spoil you know some plot threads that i wanted to tug on for for the future but you you sort of look at what unfolded later in the war things like um and this actually this is one thing that really

[00:36:53] surprised me that i didn't know until i started doing this research was uh uh some people will be familiar with what was called operation underworld uh which was an operation uh carried out by the

[00:37:06] us office of naval intelligence where they mobilized both the jewish and italian mobs uh to detect and um uh target german u-boats in us waters which is absolutely wild it's so wild

[00:37:24] but it is very cool well i mean you know leave it to the u.s government to to take uh an organ an organization a criminal enterprise that already had a good communications network

[00:37:40] and we're already adept at monitoring things smuggling those types of operations and tap into it when necessary or you know squeeze them for information whatever the case may be but yeah i mean that's that's that's fascinating stuff operation underworld i mean what a great name

[00:38:00] though i you know oh hell yeah hell yeah i've got ideas for years for this like there are just so many things that you like hadn't really thought about i want to talk about british organized

[00:38:14] like british jewish organized crime i just there's so many there's so much stuff and i mean piki blinders has kind of like delved into that a little bit but i want to go deeper um oh yeah

[00:38:27] yeah i was trying to think like because i watched piki blinders not that long ago but yeah those those things that we don't you know think about um you know because especially i think

[00:38:40] i think the kind of like the myth in america of the gangster was dominated so um so often by you know italian americans but you don't think about all the other uh cultural identities that were

[00:38:54] and you know were involved in organized crime um and and what the reasons for that would have been and then what the struggles would have been with you know with when those different like cultural identities or ethnicities kind of like clashed along with the police yeah it's all

[00:39:14] really fascinating so uh here's a little spoiler for you uh there is not a single policeman in kosher mafia not a one not one not one uh oh well there might there might be one that appears on panel none of them ever say a word

[00:39:40] okay uh but yeah as a character in the story yeah no police no police at least no i like that um we established issue one that the police don't want to get involved for reasons which

[00:39:56] we know the reasons um but yeah there's not a single uh even you know talking police person in the story i think that i mean i like that choice i like that very much so um yeah no i i just i

[00:40:18] really thought it was such a really great first issue um you know i didn't know what to expect i mean to be honest with you i didn't realize i didn't know what you had coming out next and um

[00:40:30] when you sent it to me i was just like kosher mafia i'm like okay like you know i so right away kosher mafia i think all right so we have like a jewish organized crime um but uh the cover is evocative

[00:40:43] kind of like at the time period but yeah i just thought it was great i always like to look at like a creator's like work and like kind of put you know kind of like lump it all together and think

[00:40:55] about you know how how it makes sense i mean so that's uh you know looking at noddingham and kosher mafia and um drag assassin and monomy there's certainly there's certainly a theme at

[00:41:11] least in three of the four of the four um yeah i think i think you know you could you could put them all up on the board and and get the red yarn and and string them all together yeah i mean

[00:41:25] i think you know uh to me the the connective tissue between all of it is they're all really stories about people finding agency in a world that does not want to let them have that

[00:41:43] that's well said yeah well i mean i think at least in in the ones yeah i mean i think that makes a lot of sense the ones i've read so far um i i find it interesting you know you put it in that

[00:41:58] that way characters finding agency in a world that doesn't want them to have it i also think there's like another added element in that your characters finding agency i i think you

[00:42:15] you have managed to do it in a way that i don't think i've quite seen play out before i mean i think we've seen that story of you know a character kind of like taking charge or

[00:42:30] you know asserting themselves or pushing back or fighting back but i i think you managed to write a more complete story at times like not right you really kind of dig into the characters and

[00:42:46] the world which reveals a lot about i think even more about the characters in the world than just a surface level story um i try which i really appreciate i mean i can't say that um you know i

[00:43:01] don't i don't i i can say that i don't the stories don't always go where i would expect or anticipate which i i like about them um but i think you do it in a way that i i don't i don't i don't

[00:43:15] think i see anybody else doing you know i and i think that just goes back to again to what i said earlier you make unsafe choices yeah and and uh you know there are people who inspire me who are

[00:43:29] making unsafe choices as well and i don't know i just like the more i see people taking risks in storytelling you look at something like say these savage shores which you know isn't uh an absolutely

[00:43:47] like banger horror epic but also feels deeply personal and i always at least try to put you know at least a little bit of myself in it and hopefully you know it resonates with people that's you know

[00:44:04] it's it's complicated to like try to describe where inspiration comes from but i think most of my inspiration comes from seeing people tell fantastic stories that engage and enthrall me and

[00:44:21] then going okay well how do i do that and how do i do that in a way that it's me and not them you know right yeah i always come back to this thing that alan more said which is that if you see

[00:44:36] also that's a big part whereas if you're only trying to emulate the stories that that you think are fantastic you're gonna end up becoming a copycat but and this is obviously me wildly

[00:44:53] paraphrasing uh but um also seeing the stories that you see the spark of something great in but it didn't quite reach you and uh you just want to see if you can do it in a way that is engaging

[00:45:10] that that's where inspiration comes from a lot of time and i think that's that's always helped me yeah um so yeah it's like finding the things that enthrall you and trying to do it in a way that

[00:45:25] you know is you rather than is the person who told that that story and making those unsafe choices you know like there are people like you're ronbie and tom king and people who whose stories

[00:45:41] i admire her i'm like all right i gotta be this bold for example i just i am like late to the party on uh something is killing the children and like i read through that tore through that first trade

[00:45:54] and i was like oh okay like what a bold bold statement for decompressed storytelling uh and uh it made me sort of think about my craft in a different way because if you read Nottingham

[00:46:12] there's not a more that you don't get a moment to rest and part of that is because the sheriff has to never get a moment to rest otherwise you kind of lose the threat of the character right but i don't know there's something really powerful about

[00:46:26] you know taking the time on silent pages and and uh things like you described in the first issue of kosher mafia that the page where how would like opens the door and walks into the house

[00:46:39] and you're spending time on each sort of step of that to build tension is just it pays off in in spades and also having somebody like sammy drawing it and ellie coloring it just helps immensely

[00:46:55] yeah i i i really like something is is killing the children and um it's something that i think about when i read like every issue because i mean there's a million different ways you can

[00:47:09] you know tell a story in a comic but when you see somebody doing something really interesting with you know the panels and like the gutters and like like just use it all the space and not just

[00:47:21] you know it just doesn't have to be four or five rectangles like it can be and it can be great but just seeing somebody and uh you know that creative team just put some stuff together

[00:47:35] that just uses like every square inch of that page and in in different ways um and the visual storytelling of it and then you know to use up two spaces sometimes just for the title something

[00:47:50] is killing the children i yeah they're i love that i love trying to dig into that and i love to think about those choices and and why this way and what is that telling me and yeah i just i

[00:48:04] love that about comics and it just you know fascinates me um yeah i i always i always try when i write can't write a you know sit down to write a new script to just uh it's like trying to tell

[00:48:22] people how much you love comics through writing the script because that love you know always shines through in the end especially you know especially if you put it in it'll it'll come out

[00:48:35] and it's got it you know if you're not enjoying what you're writing i don't know what you're doing like why are you doing it um and you know if you need to collect a paycheck fair but like

[00:48:45] find a way to and this is not a critique of any you know anyone in particular um i think being a comics creator is hard but yeah find the love in it uh and it's just like prime lesson of doing

[00:49:02] any sort of creative endeavors if you find the love in it it'll it'll it'll come through and that's what it's all about well i i think it it definitely shows through in your work

[00:49:15] david and the collaborators you work with um yeah kosher mafia august 7th i'm very excited for folks to read this i've been interviewing a lot of mad cave creators recently and like you know they're they're this 10th year anniversary celebration that that they're going through

[00:49:35] i mean there's just some phenomenal stuff um coming out that and it's like all over the place i'm like there's just so so many different things um i'm just i think last night i who'd i

[00:49:52] i'm trying to think who did i talk i think i talked to somebody else last night who had a mad cave book um jeremy adams and wilcon rat they're doing the flash gordon yeah hell yeah um you know uh

[00:50:07] i that was uh it was great to talk to them and you know see what they're doing with flash gordon and they had a free comic book day issue um yeah just the stuff that's coming out in june

[00:50:20] and then into july and now even into august um super excited for this is then there's so much more coming out like you know mad cave is dropping like one to two new titles each month and that's

[00:50:33] just on the mad cave imprint uh and it's very exciting um and all of that team is just super lovely and so much fun to work with so very excited very excited kosher mafia please buy

[00:50:48] issue one please uh yeah this this when this issue comes out this episode comes out you're gonna have plenty of time i think to add this to your pull list make sure your shop knows i've

[00:51:00] said it here a million times it's very important pre-orders absolutely help but make sure you let your local comic book shop know that you want that issue number one i really think you know

[00:51:11] i really think you're gonna love it if you like crime stories if you like stories about you know the the mobs of the 30s if you like world war two stuff i think you're you know if you

[00:51:20] like that there's period type of stories um really if you're just a big fan of sammy's art uh i think oh you're really really gonna love this one like i said and if you get it please let me know i

[00:51:35] love to talk about comics especially ones that i talk about here on the show um because i like to know that folks are listening and i like to i just like to talk about comics to be honest

[00:51:44] with you but august 7th uh kosher mafia and um yeah i'm i can't wait for folks to read it uh david we've already it's like been 48 minutes already that went fast absolutely i mean when you get to any number of people who love comics talking about comics in

[00:52:04] in a room whether virtual or physical it just seems to crime seems to dilate you know like yeah it went went fast um yeah oh uh before i forget shout out to my brother bobby

[00:52:17] cryptid creator corners number one most dedicated listener bobby listens to all my episodes and uh um bob i'll just i'll tell you right now i'm just gonna add this to your poll list you're gonna

[00:52:26] like it um but yeah david thank you so much for coming back i just thank you i'm such a huge fan i kind of love the comics journey that you're on uh not just because you're you know a fellow

[00:52:42] trained lawyer but also you know to go from the mad cave talent search and all the work that you have put in and the comics you've created i i just i'm inspired by it uh and i

[00:52:57] think you're such every the two times i've talked to you whenever i've seen you do like another interview or talk about comics you just seem like um such a decent fellow that i'm so glad

[00:53:08] is in this comics community and um you know happy to chat with you anytime you have something coming out or you know if you just have 45 minutes in your board just we'll set it up talking about comics i don't mind

[00:53:24] oh kosher maffi august 7 uh david is on samy kevella ellie right simon bowlin mad cave studios david thank you so much for coming on again listeners thank you for listening make sure

[00:53:36] you pick up the issue let me know once you've read it and um i'll see you next time goodnight everybody this is biron o'neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by

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