David Marquez Interview - The UnChosen

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[00:01:29] Head to 2000AD.com and click on subscribe now or download the 2000AD app and why wait? Start reading today. I'll put links in the show notes for you. Hello everybody and welcome to the Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm Byron O'Neill, your host for today's Comics Creator Chat. As anyone who knows who's been around the comics industry for a while, sometimes the journey isn't always linear getting an indie project off the ground, even when it's attached to one of the biggest names of the industry. And I'm personally excited to get to see this one come to full fruition.

[00:01:58] As it's a good one. So it is my pleasure to introduce New York Times bestselling and Eiser nominated comic book creator, who also happens to be working on a little book you may have heard of called The Uncanny X-Men. David Marquez on with me today to talk about his series, The Unchosen dropping on shelves this July from Image Comics. David, first time on the show. Very happy to have you join us. That's for having me, man.

[00:02:21] Absolutely. Well, let's jump right into The Unchosen. Let me give people the quick elevator pitch who are unfamiliar with it. So this is a 13-year-old Aida who wakes up in a city that's laid waste by a massive explosion. See the devastation that she caused. Pursued by rival forces wielding incredible powers, she must discover who truly wants to help her, who wants to control her, and the truth behind her own mysterious path.

[00:02:47] This started as a project on the digital platform Zestworld a couple years ago. I don't want to focus too much on the challenges of navigating all the various places that you have to go in the industry, but briefly catch us up on the journey from there to Image. Yeah, so I had worked mainstream comics, Marvel and DC for about a decade, and had been very fortunate to work on a lot of awesome projects.

[00:03:14] And I had been coming to the end of my contract at DC, and this opportunity popped up where a lot of really big names were starting to do Substack comics. And there had been this interest within the, it's kind of like Web 3.0 adjacent space of doing comics online.

[00:03:37] People saw an opportunity doing that, and a lot of people were doing it through Zestworld, and then, sorry, through Substack, and then Zestworld was this other organization kind of trying to do the same kind of deal. And so myself and Phil Jimenez and a bunch of other folks, Eric Canetti, all signed on with Zestworld to kind of do our own projects there.

[00:04:00] And, I mean, no long story short is a lot of the market that the people behind the company were hoping would be there for digital comics weren't really there. You know, the social media following we all may have is not the same thing as the Wednesday Warriors will come out and buy our comics in the shops. Sure. And that mismatch was maybe a little predictable, but it was cool to, you know, to try it out.

[00:04:26] And also, more importantly, it was a good opportunity for me to work on a personal project that had been kind of gestating for close to a decade probably at that point. The entire time I was working on the mainstream comics as an artist, I had also been kind of developing, in a loose way anyway, the story. And I'd been talking to myself and, like, you know, anybody who's close to me would hear how I want to write and draw. I have ideas for stories. And there was one in particular that I wanted to tell.

[00:04:56] And so when this kind of popped in my lap as a chance to do it, I'm like, well, when else will I have the opportunity? So I took a couple years off doing Marvel and DC stuff for interior. I still did some covers while I worked on this. And, I mean, it was a challenging experience in the sense of the writing and the drawing, that stuff I feel very comfortable with.

[00:05:18] The project management that comes along with doing an independent project is much more challenging as anybody who, well, being a self-employed creative type of any kind, the creative side of it is only ever part of what you spend your time doing. There's a lot of other stuff. I mean, as boring as just doing taxes and then all the other kind of, like, executive function requirements around, like, just planning is difficult.

[00:05:48] So that stuff sucked. And I did not enjoy that. And I also, I don't enjoy, like, I don't know, social media posts to promote, you know, like, the salesmanship of it. I don't love that side of it. I don't love talking about it, though. So this is a good way to do it. Yeah. I mean, my experience having worked with bands, having supported artists for, I don't know, longer than I would care to admit, is that creatives are generally speaking not the best marketers.

[00:06:17] And the ones that are don't even, and this is no disrespect, I'm not speaking of anybody in particular and saying they're bad writers or artists or anything like that. But the ones who are really good marketers tend to also have very, very successful books, whether, whether the book is necessarily great or not. It just tends to be the way of things, for sure. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, you know, there's a lot of conversation, mainly in the political sphere, but it definitely relates to creative as well, of the idea of, like, the attention economy. Yeah.

[00:06:48] And people who have found a way of grabbing attention, you know, it's the squeaky wheel, the loudest voice in the room, however you want to couch it. It works, you know. In some cases, it's backed up by talent, and that's great. In other cases, you know, it's the carnival barker is, you know, the negative version of that. Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:16] Well, I know initially this was designed as a vertical scroll, and Bleeding Cool has this really neat comparison of how the prologue originally appeared in Zest World. Have there been any challenges adapting it to more of a standard comics formatting now? So, I had from the outset planned to do this both as the vertical scroll and then as the print. Okay.

[00:07:39] So, in other words, the original working files from day one were built so that the pieces could be assembled in both ways, and I had it plotted out in both ways. Talking about the project management and the challenges of that, I abandoned that about a third of the way through, and I just started producing everything like a comic page. Okay. It was just way too much logistical headache to try to, just at times suck, you know, to do all that kind of stuff. So, was it a challenge? Absolutely.

[00:08:09] But it was a challenge that I, like, I dove into the deep end right away and then realized I should not be doing it this way. But, yes, arguably it produces, like, sometimes, no matter how happy you may be with the end result, the process is, and that's kind of where I was. I was happy with the vertical scroll, happy with the way that it worked on the page. I was very unhappy with how much time and effort it took to get there. So. Makes a lot of sense, yeah. I'm just old school, so I, you know, I like a, you know, regular old comics page anyway.

[00:08:38] But although I will say that accentuation of that initial spread with the crater moment, as I'll call it, that spread where she sprawled out and was like, fuck. That really worked really well in a vertical. Thank you. Yeah. No, it's, there is a traditional comic book page, physical Etern, has its own dynamics with pacing. Going vertical scroll, you play with time in a very different way.

[00:09:04] And so from a creative standpoint, from a storytelling standpoint, narrative, even just from a visual artistic standpoint, there are lots of cool things you can do with that. And that was an interesting challenge to play with. But part of the time suck was trying to tell the narrative in a way that optimized or that took as much advantage of both of those storytelling styles while not detracting from each other.

[00:09:27] You're, you're, you're serving two different masters and if you're willing to work hard to spend enough time on it, yeah, you can make it work, work really well in both ways. But usually it, you're instead having to sacrifice one for the other or else redraw it twice or, you know, um, as a case in point, I was saying how, you know, I, uh, the, the elements. We're designed to be used in either format. A lot of times it's because like I drew a much larger image and only part of it was used in this part and part of it was used for that page.

[00:09:55] So there's a lot of unused art essentially, um, doing it that way. Uh, which again, it's like wasted effort and end of the day, like I still have day-to-day expenses to take care of food. You know, gotta get food on the table for the family, et cetera. So you gotta, you gotta draw, you have to draw the line somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the book and help you make some money then. All right. Appreciate it. Well, I read the, the advanced review copy you sent over. It's simply a gorgeous book and the title tells you kind of everything you need to know. The unchosen.

[00:10:26] You're playing off the trope of someone being the chosen one. What do you love hate about that trope that made you want to build everything around it? Um, so arguably the best version of the pitch of the story is a little bit spoilery. Um, and I'm, I'm okay. Got kind of going into that. Um, the chosen one narrative is a fun one because it works. It's familiar. It's compelling. It also, I think begs to be torn apart a little bit.

[00:10:54] And there's plenty of stories that do that. I'm not, I'm not sure. I'm not the first one ever to think of like, let's deconstruct the idea of the chosen one narrative. Right. It's a very common thing to do. Um, but the way I think it's a very common thing to do. I wanted to kind of approach the story was playing with the idea of, well, I guess this is going to get a little bit, uh, personal. I suppose a lot of the story is kind of an allegory for my own experience going, being

[00:11:19] raised in like a very conservative religious context, not like anything. Um, and, and having a deconstruction that I went through and being angry for a very long time. And now being more in a much more broadly accepting, curious, not curious necessarily about religion, but like here's the individual people's experiences being more open to, to the value that different people derive from different aspects of, of their life and experience

[00:11:49] everything like that. Right. A religion for a lot of people can be a very powerful and very positive experience. And I, and I see that at work. It's, that was just not my personal experience of it. Um, in a lot of ways, this story is kind of exploration of that thematically. Okay. And so Aida is brought into this, this group as the chosen one. So she's told and from the very beginning, and then what really drives them there through a lot of the story and really comes to the four issue too.

[00:12:16] This is where the, it's a little bit spoilery, but also hopefully readers will see, oh, this is interesting. You know, I want to see where that goes. Um, things are clearly not everything that she's being told. And there are other people who had been told the same thing that she had been told and turns out they were being lied to. And it is that betrayal that really drives the narrative for the rest of the story. The four issue mini series is being published right now is volume one of what will be eventually a much longer, longer story.

[00:12:47] Um, so, uh, I tend to ramble. So, you know, get me back on the rails if we need to, but that is kind of like the, that's the way that me playing with the chosen one narrative relates to the kind of this broader theme that I'm really exploring. Um, I'm not undermining it just to be another person saying it's all bullshit. Well, no, there's, there's more, there's more, more, uh, substance here that I wanted to kind of delve into.

[00:13:14] Um, it's also a fun way to play with, um, a lot of like mystical magical kind of stuff. The chosen one narrative lends itself, I think very well that kind of, of, uh, supernatural meets science fiction-y kind of, kind of, uh, high concept stuff, which is a big part of the story as well. That world building. Yeah. Yeah. I, I went back and did a little diving just about how many of the chosen one. And I was kind of blown away at how many I just didn't initially sort of realize would fall into that categorically.

[00:13:44] And it's, it's one hell of a lot. You know, I was thinking back to the ones that made an impact on me aside from, okay, obvious like star Wars, but the, one of the ones that hits really hard for me was the golden child. And for people who might be listening, who are younger, that was a 1986 Eddie Murphy movie when he was at the top of the game and it had Charles dance who, okay. That's Tywin Lannister for people who don't have that association point. And it was a demon who was trying to kill the young boy, the golden child, savior of all

[00:14:14] mankind, all that. Um, dance had the coolest fucking name of a character ever with, with Sardo num spa. That was the fucking best. That's great. And yeah. And so the golden child there was probably one of the first examples to me in terms of exposure when I was a kid of a flawed mentor. And that's what makes Eddie's character so memorable. And to some extent that seems like what you're sort of exploring with the handlers for lack

[00:14:43] of a better term in the book. Is that right? Certainly. I mean, yeah, there, there's, um, a lot of the archetypes in the story are familiar ones because it's, it's an easy framework for a story. And once those pieces are in place, the way you play with them is where hopefully a story becomes unique and interesting and compelling. Right. And so Aida is, is that golden child chosen one character. Right. And then there is an Obi-Wan style ish character and there is well, or Dumbledore or whatever you want to say.

[00:15:10] Like, um, if you look at Harry Potter, you look at the matrix, you look at star Wars, the archetypes are all there for a reason, right? It's, it's an easy way to get in a compelling way to get certain like chess pieces on the board. But then what you do with them is interesting stuff. Um, so, you know, one of the ways I've pitched the story is it's a little bit like Harry Potter meets the matrix, but imagine the Dumbledore or, um, uh, uh, what's Lawrence Fishburne's character's name?

[00:15:39] Um, oh, in the matrix. In the matrix. Yeah. Uh, Morpheus. Morpheus. Thank you. Yeah. Um, imagine that it turns out they are actually bad guy. Okay. Okay. And that's somewhat the framework that, uh, I'm going for. And so, yeah, emotionally and thematically, I'm certainly exploring the idea of like, you know, religious indoctrination and deconstruction, forgiveness, um, anger, you know, all religious trauma, all that kind of stuff. Um, I'm also looking at, uh, more like high concept stuff.

[00:16:08] Like there's a lot of kind of, um, old Testament style mythology thing I'm playing very loosely with. Um, like this is not a story about angels. It's not, not a story about angels. Um, I'm playing with ideas around like, you know, um, higher dimensional spaces and like, you know, 40 geometry and all this kind of stuff, how that can overlap with it.

[00:16:36] Um, the explorations of, you know, the divine cannot be described because it is beyond our everyday experience. I'm playing with that idea. So like there's a lot of high concept stuff there also overlaps. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Now I may misquote the beginning, but it was in the beginning, there was the word, which felt very biblical. So I was going to ask about that. Yeah. Language language is one of the, is probably the biggest theme is motif, I guess is it, uh,

[00:17:03] in the story, um, within the world of the unchosen language is magical. Um, and, uh, here I'm kind of going very much into the kind of like Alan Moore, Grant Morrison kind of territory of what does language, what is magic? Matt, uh, magic is intent. Magic is like the hack, you know, the, the cheat codes to reality, this kind of stuff.

[00:17:28] And the way that that kind of, uh, manifests in the story is playing with the idea of language and like an or language, an original core language that all other languages ultimately kind of derive from. Um, and that's a, that is a big high concept thing that is explored throughout. Um, and you know, who, Oh, what is this language? Where does it come from? How does it work? How does it relate? Is there only one? Um, so there's kind of like a magical system a little bit here.

[00:17:57] It's a little bit soft magic-y, but, um, that is a big theme. And so throughout it opens up in the beginning, there was the word, the word itself is the word itself and language plays a very huge literal role in, in the story. And throughout there's also a lot of like little, like we call them Easter eggs, but there's constantly stuff around the language that different characters choose to use and their reaction to language and like puns.

[00:18:26] Also, they're kind of sprinkled throughout around the use of language when language is good, when language is bad, that plays a really huge role as well for people who are like really, you know, want to get into the details. Sure. So have you have found you that you can avoid the cliches? Cause we are going a little bit. It looks like Harry Potter in there. You have a school atmosphere kind of as the anchor, at least in the first issue. Yeah.

[00:18:50] So, um, a lot of this is about leaning on certain tropes to get people quickly into the story. Okay. Gotcha. So, you know, for instance, like the, the, the characters, the young characters are all in school uniforms, right? It is an easy rule of thumb for people to understand like, okay, this is a learning environment. Um, and it's a little bit formal, which is appropriate for like a kind of like old school-y magic-y kind of thing. It's, it's vibes. Very quickly, we move away from that.

[00:19:17] So a lot of the archetypes, a lot of the familiar tropes that I 100% am leaning on consciously is all stuff that gets undermined pretty quickly. Um, as kind of like the real narrative arc takes off. Um, I also, I like, I like drawing that kind of stuff. And so it's like, well, a big part of this is me kind of exploring ideas and concepts

[00:19:46] that I have, you know, moving around in my head all the time, or at least as I'm trying to develop the story. And also just shit I want to draw, which is the joy of greater own book. It's like, this is, this is the kind of story that I really enjoy. One that deals with science fiction and fantasy and high concepts and stuff that also relates to kind of like real world shit that people kind of think about and deal with all the time.

[00:20:11] Um, I like stuff that is, that tries to deconstruct, you know, common storytelling narratives. I like that kind of stuff. So it's the kind of story I would want to read. Also, it's the stuff I would both want to look at in a, in a comic book and I want to draw as well. So, um, Brian Bendis, who's a good friend of mine as well as a longtime collaborator, will talk a lot about, you know, when, when giving advice to people who want to make comics or other kinds of art, it's like make stuff that is personal to you and make the kind of shit

[00:20:40] that you want in the world. And that is, that is exactly what the book is. All right, everybody, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Let's face it. The comics landscape is a mess right now. I'm the editor-in-chief of a comics journalism outlet, and I can't even keep track of it all. If you are as passionate as I am about indie comics and its creators, you should check out the Lantern Guide. Created on the premise of creating light in the dark, it's going to be the go-to resource to keep you up to date on the projects and the creators that you love. Don't take my word for it.

[00:21:10] I reached out to my friend Brian Lovell, Poison Ivy artist and indie comics creator, to get his take. Brian, what does The Lantern Project fix? I'm a dude who loves indie comics. And I know personally, like, I get very frustrated when something shows up in my social media timeline or something like that, and I feel like I can't keep track of everything. So really, The Lantern Project was born out of that. It was an opportunity for me as a reader to kind of, like, have a place to want to consolidate

[00:21:40] all the stuff that I wanted to read. All the cool projects from cool creators that seemed interesting and kind of unique to, like, something that I would like, which is really not super represented everywhere else, but it's all over the indies. Having a spot to go to that felt like it consolidated a lot of those audiences and a lot of those places where I couldn't just get drowned out in the feed of social media seemed really valuable to me. What's the ultimate goal?

[00:22:06] It's really our hope with this project that creators feel like they're able to get in front of readers, and readers are able to get books that they actually want to read with a much easier time of keeping track of them. And accessing them. The catalog is scheduled for a quarterly release, so head over to thelanterncatalog.com to sign up now so you don't miss your next favorite thing. I'll put a link in the show notes for you. Y'all, Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again.

[00:22:35] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know, and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing. Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together, so I guess? Question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkenforge.

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[00:23:29] Check them out at Arkenforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you, and big thanks to Arkenforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. It's interesting to kind of jump into the fashion choices of it all. Like, Vasha is a character that immediately connected with me, and taking on more of a protector role sort of fits my personality.

[00:23:59] I don't know if this gives too much away about my own personality, but my favorite visual moment in the whole first book was getting the leather to fit right on her. And before thirsty people start raising their eyebrows, I come from a background working in the theater as a theatrical lighting designer. And it sounds weird, but I appreciate appropriate fabric folds. I don't know if you're an ACDC fan, but you definitely have some Angus Young, you know, boy, schoolboy shorts going on there.

[00:24:27] So is fashion something you pay a lot of attention to as an artist? Absolutely, yeah. So while my sartorial choices are not necessarily the most pronounced in real life, it's something that I certainly put a lot of thought into on the page. I tend to design a lot on the page as well, as opposed to some people will do their design work on the side, and then when it's time to draw the page, they'll have the thing to reference. I tend to do a lot of the designing, maybe because I'm lazy, I'm ADHD, whatever else.

[00:24:56] The idea of that much planning is difficult for me. But I spend a lot of time researching, arguably too much. At times it can feel like I'm doing the research, but I'm not actually designing. So that can be its own kind of catch. I've had a very fortunate career that I've gotten to do a lot of design. And of the designs that I've done, I say I like about 10 to 15% of them. Okay. And a few of the designs have stuck around.

[00:25:27] But what I mean is like, when the time I draw it, I'm fine with it. A little bit of time goes by and I can only feel critical about it. And there are about 10 to 15% were like, I nailed that one. But yeah, I enjoy doing the design work. I like trying to draw on interesting, inventive, against the grain work that's being done in design, whether that's in theater, in film.

[00:25:57] I have a hard drive full of, or not even a hard drive, Pinterest boards full of, you know, runway designs from like Fashion Week. And, you know, Alexander McQueen, a really famous designer who's passed. But his work is a huge inspiration for me. So yeah, I put a lot of effort and thought into it. I won't say I'm always successful in the final design, but I try.

[00:26:22] Well, I don't know if you've started it yet, but season two of Andor, I will say, I am absolutely sucked into the fashion of it. If they don't win awards for the costume design in that show, because it is unbelievable, just off the charts. Yeah, I haven't watched season two yet. Season one was some of the best TV I've ever watched. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm really looking forward to season two, and it's awesome to hear.

[00:26:48] I mean, I thought the production design as a whole in the first season was just off the walls amazing. So hearing that season two is great as well. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. After having worked on some of the most iconic characters in the medium and now having a chance to do your own thing, is there something in the character form language in The Unchosen that feels unique that you hadn't tried before? Well, that's a good question because you're pausing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:18] I think the interplay between the different elements is what's new for me. So. Okay. I mean, kind of like the way it's a hard question to answer. So a lot of like the chess piece is the way I'm kind of describing it. And I mean that in a vague metaphorical sense. And like the characters are archetypes to a certain degree. Right. And the lineup of like, you know, there's a group of like rebellious young people. That's an archetype, right? Or a trope. Yeah.

[00:27:46] It's, it's, there's a, it's, it's a diverse cast. That's a trope as well. Um, there's a mentor figure. There's a disappointing mentor figure. Uh, the mentor has a, has a boss. The bosses have, has questionable motives. This is all stuff that you see springing out through all the stories all over the place. And so it's not necessarily that I feel like I am. There's a bad version and a good version for pitching it. Story, right? Most stories are not going to be reinventing the wheel, but it is the way that the different

[00:28:13] parts interact where hopefully things that are meaningful or novel are found. And that's where I think I'm, I'm, I'm happy with the way things have kind of come together in the story and the way, especially by the time you get to the end of the first of the first volume. Um, it's been a while since I have read, not saying this one out there, a story that is both hopefully like visually really engaging. Like I like to think I'm a good artist and I think the art, I'm, I'm happy with the way the book came out. I think it's beautiful.

[00:28:41] Um, and a big part of that is because of the collaboration with Marissa Louise is doing all the colors. Um, but one that is hopefully both visually really engaging, but also hopefully makes people think a little bit. So lots of comics do that. Don't get me wrong. But this specific mix is something that I have not felt as if I've gotten to read a lot recently. And so I'm hoping that that is something that people find value in when they, when they read the book, it's like, Oh, it's really fun to look at, but also I walk away and have to think about some stuff as well. Or I want to.

[00:29:12] Yeah. I guess a couple of things that I noticed, I, I really enjoyed what I'm calling the zoom lens effect. And this comes from background as a photographer, maybe that that's my landing point, but you get these series of wide panels on a page. And as they descend, you get closer to it is facial expressions. And it's a neat trick to help develop this rapid sense of character empathy and connection with her. And you don't need all that extra exposition. You don't have to fill the page with a whole bunch of words or anything like that, talking about how she's

[00:29:41] feeling because you're just narrowing in on it. And I really enjoyed that. It just helped so much with connection in what you're trying to do with one single issue, which is kind of trying to pull everybody in with all these high concepts really fast, but make it engaging and, and still connect with people. Well, I, I certainly appreciate that. Um, one of the things that I enjoy the most in creating comics is the character work.

[00:30:08] And, um, I enjoy making my characters relatable. Uh, I like making, um, them emotionally, emote, making them emotional, hopefully in a way that is compelling and engaging for a reader. Um, if I often, if I'm drawing and I start feeling emotional as I'm drawing it, hopefully some part of that is coming through on the reader side as well. And then trying to also then balance that when I'm doing the writing and structuring the story

[00:30:36] from the outset so that, that both the writing and the art kind of push that forward. That's the goal. Another thing kind of, uh, Brian Bendis, who's a bit of a writing mentor for me, we'll talk a lot about is that all story begins with character. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. I hope that people feel connected to Aida. I hope that they feel engaged and curious about what's happening to her and what will happen to her.

[00:31:02] Um, and as she experiences the ups and downs of the story, I hope that they go along with a rollercoaster with her. You know, um, it's reassuring and gratifying to hear that at least in, in bits and pieces in the first issue that's already happened. Yeah. Well, working with Bendis, working with Gale, as your first outing is, is a writer artist combo. What have you learned from looking at other people's scripts that you wanted to inject into your own process?

[00:31:32] Not stuff that didn't work, but just, you know, you, you get exposure to these things and especially different people at the top of their game. And, you know, it informs you. It absolutely does. Um, there are like concrete little tricks that I've picked up, um, that get very into the weeds, like being very mindful of page turns and what's happening there. Right. Um, there are little like mechanical things you can do to drive a narrative forward.

[00:31:59] And it's, this is a very famous example of, um, JJ Abrams talking about his mystery box. Right. Yeah. If you're familiar with this or readers or listeners aren't, um, it's the idea of like having a box and there's a mystery of what's inside, but, but never actually opening. It is a very compelling narrative tool that a lot of people, most mystery novels use some version of it. It's the idea of like, there is a carrot ahead of you that you're trying to chase.

[00:32:29] It's the answer to whatever the question is. Now having a, uh, you storytellers can use that to drag someone along, drag someone's interests along. Oh, I have to turn the page. So I get the answer to this. Dan Brown writing his books, um, angels and demons, uh, Da Vinci code, all that stuff. He is very good at this as well. Ending a chapter on a question, things like that. So, uh, this all very kind of like in the weeds, you know, uh, inside baseball stuff.

[00:32:55] But like, it's something that I think about very concretely and something that I've observed in a lot of the good writers who I've worked with is they ask questions that later pages have to answer or the next panel has to answer. A very, the most basic rule of sequential storytelling is there has to be some connective tissue between panel one and panel two. And a question, best versions of that in order to answer what just happened at the end of this page. I got to turn the page, find what the answer is. So like, that's just one very simple mechanical example of it.

[00:33:25] Um, but then broadly, it's about, um, this is a joke with Brian, but apparently there's no such thing as too many words on a page. So I can always feel good about, about that. Um, again, Brian, I'm just, I'm just joking around. Um, but no, it's, it's, uh, finding characters' voices and giving them enough space to, how to phrase this, making sure your characters have their own unique voices. That's a really important thing.

[00:33:54] And then I don't mean just like literally the words they choose, but having an, a, a very strong distinctive view of the world and making sure that that is coming across, not just what they say, but what they do. Yeah. Um, that's really important. So, I mean, a lot of this is kind of like writing craft stuff that I've been very fortunate to have worked with a lot of people who are able to do this at a very high level. And then I have just always been trying to reverse engineer a lot of it.

[00:34:21] And also quite frankly, like learn from it as I'm trying to interpret that from written word into visual image. Artists are writers. It's just that we are not the ones putting the words in the character's mouth, but we have to find the ways of like telling the story in a way. And if someone is, has been drawing comics for 15 years and hasn't learned a few of the basics of storytelling that they should pay more attention, you know? Yeah.

[00:34:48] Artists who've been working for any period of time have learned those basics of storytelling. Yeah. It's definitely something that I noticed. Uh, the, the craft, your craft was, was on full display and we talk about sexy shit like page economy around here. So the, the, the visual kinesics in the book are really, really good. It's not just putting a Superman drop, but surrounding it with, with panels that frame the moment, move the story, but still give it enough breathing room that, that balance things out.

[00:35:16] Because you're used to cranking out a monthly book for the big two, which has space limitations. And that is on full display here. So well done. Well, appreciate it. It's, it is difficult. Um, and the first issue has, it's 28 story pages. And so I could have fit it in. Well, I could have truncated that 20 and it would have worked. It just works a whole lot better breathing a little bit with those extra, extra few pages.

[00:35:41] Um, every page is a struggle to like, how can I tell this in five panels and not eight or not nine, not 12? Um, or just making sure that you have each page include not just enough information, but the right information and same for the issue. Um, but there's also, there's a rhythm to comics. Uh, people are used to what 20 pages of story feels like.

[00:36:09] Um, in some cases, a lot can happen in 20 pages. In some cases, not a lot happens in 20 pages, but it's what you fill it with. It's the right stuff and find that right balance is important. There's a lot of learning happening for me as I'm producing this as well. And people will see it by issue four. Like, yeah, it feels a little bit different than issue number one, but hopefully throughout the entire process, people are still getting a really good story out of it. Well, I don't think you started out with an editor, but Lauren Sankovich is credited with as editorial assistants.

[00:36:37] So what made you think another set of eyes might be a good idea? So part of it was that when I was doing this at Zestworld initially, there's just such a, how do I know how to phrase it? Like I just needed to get the shit done. And so I just did it all myself. Um, I have less time to get all the shit done myself now. So Lauren is a longtime friend of mine. And she was my first editor at Marvel.

[00:37:00] And she's since been doing a lot of editorial work through with, um, like, uh, Matt Fraction and Kelly Sue Deconyx, uh, creator-owned stuff. Um, and, uh, she and I had connected and I was, I was helping her out with a, a cover for a, for a Kickstarter charity thing. Um, but then I realized like, oh shit, like I have too much on my plate right now. And I could really use a hand in step one, just keeping all the trains running on time, making sure this book actually gets out on time, which it's all drawn. It's all written.

[00:37:30] Um, it's all colored. It's all lettered. It's just, there's still stuff that needs to get done for the book to come out. Um, and I'm working on a monthly book. I won't say that I'm drawing at a monthly pace, but I'm working on a monthly book at Marvel. Every three weeks book at Marvel. I just have a lot, a lot of shit on my plate. So, um, part of it is that, but then also like she has 15 plus years of editorial storytelling experience, working with people at the highest level in the industry. I trust her opinion.

[00:38:00] Like we've been good friends for a long time. She has good taste. And, um, I know that even though I feel very confident in my storytelling abilities, this is still my first project as writer and artist. And I'm going to be making rookie mistakes and I'm aware of what a lot of them are, but we all, everybody runs into the air of assuming that you know more than you do or, or that you are more competent than you are. There are things you're not aware of that you're not aware of. Right. It's the unknown unknown. Yeah.

[00:38:26] To, to quote a, to quote Rumsfeld, um, getting the extra pair of eyes is always valuable for that. And she is somebody whose opinion I just implicitly trust. Uh, and she's already been very helpful in helping me be more. Find a better economy with some of the material is in the book. Um, especially later dues. I got, I got very well and she's been doing a very good job of helping me pair it down a little bit.

[00:38:52] Um, uh, just cause I have an idea doesn't mean I have to write it out in 20 sentences. So, um, yeah, she's helped a lot. There you go. Shoot my whole like bragging on you and in the foot here, you know, I'm talking about your good page economy. I mean, now you're saying I was, I was too wordy and maybe I got a little bit too much in the way of panels in here. So it's the nature of your own thing. To scratch my own back a little bit. Issue one, she didn't have that much.

[00:39:20] But nonetheless, uh, she has been a huge benefit to the project. Yeah. So a couple of other questions about influences. It seemed like there was a, a bit of a manga infusion into this that I'm not used to seeing in your normal character design. There was the big one for me was the, the, I hae gao or the exaggerated facial expression. It's subtle, but it feels like it's definitely got a manga influence.

[00:39:45] Working with younger characters, my, the way that I have found a better way of phrasing that the tool that helps me make young characters look younger is by leaning more into a cartoon style. Um, and for me, that is a very manga anime kind of influenced thing. Um, it ties maybe a little bit Disney-y, but I would say I lean more, more into the manga.

[00:40:07] I mean, like, uh, Kurosawa, not Kurosawa, um, film directing, um, uh, Otomo has been, was a huge influence on me, uh, creatively. And so, and same with, you know, um, uh, Masamuni Shiro as well, Ghost in the Shell and Akira, the two projects. They're some of the biggest manga ever. It's not as if I'm, I'm, I'm referencing like, you know, niche indie band stuff here, right? But, uh, they were, they were huge influences. Um, and also I, I happen to really like manga and anime aesthetic in general.

[00:40:36] Um, I think there's a lot of like just very, they, they, they draw cool shit. I think it looks cool. Um, but, uh, so that was one reason. Young characters keeping them looking young. Um, also it's just like, as I've, as I've been developing as an artist, like there are certain, I started off as a huge Traverse Ray fan. He has always been like gold standard for me for comic book art. The problem with that is that he would draw like a page a year. And that is, so if my influence is this person whose style is so incredibly technically intricate,

[00:41:06] but I'm trying to draw comics quickly. Like there's a mismatch there, obviously. And so as my, as my tastes broadened and as I was being more, I guess, deliberate in the influences I'm surrounding myself with, and that I'm leaning more heavily on artistically. A big one is like, well, what can I draw quickly?

[00:41:26] And turns out that a very slow technical style wasn't conducive, but mangaka are very famously known for producing quickly. And oftentimes it's because they have teams of artists working together and things like that. But nonetheless, you know, if you look at something like, uh, you know, Blade of the Immortal, another huge influence of mine. Like it's a very scratchy, um, loose, uh, impressionistic style in a lot of ways.

[00:41:51] And so as I tried to lean into that, one of the ways that it comes across to the art is, yeah, simpler lines, more evocative lines, um, and shapes, uh, exaggerating expression, you know, things like this. Uh, anyone who's read Scott McCloud's books on, on comics, um, two dots and a smiley face to a person will read as a human face as much as a photorealistic illustration. You don't need it to be realistic for, for it to work.

[00:42:19] And, um, I've been deliberately trying to lean more into that. And, uh, that some people are going to see that kind of work through in a lot of my more recent art that that is coming through more strongly. Additionally, there's another creator-owned project I've been working on for a long time that has not been announced yet. Um, and it's like hundreds of pages of stuff that hasn't been released. Um, and, uh, this is, I'm working with, with a writer on that and we have, we have a publishing deal, all this kind of stuff.

[00:42:47] Um, it leans much more heavily even than this book does into a cartoon year style. Um, and as, as a last point on it, like this is an evolution or at least an aspect of my, art that I've been cultivating kind of on the side for a long time. Um, I did have one creator-owned property that, or a project that I worked on called The Joiners in 3D that I did almost a decade ago now through Arkea, um, with a writer, RJ Ryan, who's another long-term good friend of mine.

[00:43:14] And that book has a very distinctly cartoony style to it. Um, so there, there's, uh, we all contain multitudes, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's different than my, my typical mainstream stuff. I found myself marrying more and more. This more kind of like cartoony, uh, animated-y kind of influence style with my, what had been my more Jim Lee, Travis Shray kind of, you know, influenced comic style. And I'm sure it'll continue to evolve.

[00:43:43] Um, I get very bored easily as an artist. And so people will see, like, I'm always trying new shit. Issue three of anything I'm working on is going to look different than issue one. And that's because, like, I want to try something different. Otherwise I get bored and I don't pay attention to what I'm doing. I don't hit my deadlines. So. Yeah. With, with deadlines, do you find that the creator own work gives you that outlet? You know, is it, is it something?

[00:44:09] So I think for myself, so back when I was a professional photographer, I made very strong lines between, okay, this is my creative work. This is sacred. This is my commercial work. I really don't care after it to be crude after somebody buys it, if they wipe their ass with it. Right. Like I've made the money. I've cashed the check. It's not to say that it's bad. It's, it's not, you know, you're putting out still very good quality stuff, but I just, it, it was the safety net for me as an artist to be able to draw that line.

[00:44:38] And I see a lot of people who I guess struggle talk to people who struggle, who are on that grind of more of doing, you know, a monthly book at the big two and they get burnout. You know? So I, I enjoy, and I invest as much of myself in the work for hire stuff as in the creator own work. And a part of that is because like, I have been reading superhero comics and Marvel and DC stuff since I was a kid and I love it.

[00:45:08] And I love that I get to do it. Um, I have a lot of fun with it. Now all the, you know, some issues more than others will engage me, you know, uh, more, more intensely. Um, whereas with the creator own stuff, even the quote unquote boring pages, it's like, I know what I'm trying to do with this. And so I really want to sell it. Um, so I guess there is a slight, you know, a subtle difference there.

[00:45:33] Um, a quote unquote boring talking head page on something that I am writing and drawing and I, and I own it. Yeah. I will care more about that than a boring talking head page on a, you know, uh, on an issue of uncanny, you know? Um, but even, you know, the way, the way that I fight the burnout, um, well, one, it's like, I make sure to take a couple of weeks off a year where I'm like, I'm just not going to work at all this, you know, this week.

[00:46:03] So the part of it is just life management, which I am slowly getting better at, but none of us are great at it. Um, comic book people generally, we tend to put way too much time and effort and devote our lives way too much to, to, to the, to the work, um, in a way that is not healthy, quite frankly. Um, but, uh, the way that I, I fight the, the, the burnout is trying to find stuff on any given page that I really have fun drawing. And for me, I like drawing people and I'm fortunate that I'm draw, I'm not drawing robots, you know?

[00:46:32] I'm drawing people. So, uh, I like making people look pretty and, um, I, I will, I will usually find at least a face or two on a page where it's like, I just want to draw a pretty face. Let's draw a pretty face. Oh, that's not a bad way to spend a day. Also, I listen to a lot of podcasts and audio books. So that helps me as well. Okay. Okay. Well, I want to kind of come back and finish on the zest world thing, because I think it could be potentially really good for people. Uh, it's a weird one to me.

[00:47:02] It has a failed success story of sorts, right? I understand people kept their rights. They had the financial backing to the tune of, you know, $9 million or so. And it, it underlines just how challenging the business is for, for everybody that's in it. So what advice would you have for creators who are trying to navigate where they want to display their work and the challenges of all that in 2025? Yeah. Based on what you've been through. Yeah.

[00:47:31] There are no guarantees, you know? Um, so I, I, I can't speak about what was going on under the hood at the company. I wasn't privy to it. Um, but I made sure that I had an ironclad contract, you know? And, um, I made sure that I was thinking of my experience as like, I tried to do it right. It worked out pretty okay. This is something that hopefully is, is illustrative and, and, and, and, um, helpful, like have an ironclad contract and communicate.

[00:47:59] And if things feel weird, like you should ask questions and pay attention to that. Without going into the details, I don't know of people who had a terrible experience at Zest World, right? We were all set. Work out. I don't know. So no one came and talked to me about, I had this awful fucking experience and I felt like I got cheated.

[00:48:20] That is a really common story within creative careers and, and, and, and, uh, pursuits across the board for people to have really, really bad experiences with, with money drying up and then people getting left, you know, um, hung out to dry without, without getting paid. Um, Zest World was not one of those situations and I don't know anybody who got fucked by them. Um, that's a rare story and I think it's cool that even though it didn't work out, no one got fucked as far as I know.

[00:48:48] Um, if I find out differently, you know, the story could change. Um, but a big part of that is I think that there's a lot of, there's good communication and, um, when problems did pop up, like there's good communication about it both, both ways. It's when those things aren't happening that a lot of problems happen. Um, so always have a contract. Um, and make sure you're communicating and that you're trusting your gut and talking to each other is the other part of it.

[00:49:17] A lot of the people who are working there, we all talk to each other. And so everyone kind of knew what was going on at what stage and everyone made, I thought, good, sound, responsible adult decisions, having those good, sound adult conversations throughout. Um, so that everyone walked away with it. It didn't work out, but no one felt as if like they were being exploited through it. Yeah. I mean, thank you for your candor. I mean, it's not, you know, for me, it's not about zest world.

[00:49:46] It's just the, I don't know. I just, it breaks my heart to hear the common refrain for people who they have these things that is their creation. It is their baby. They're trying to get it out into the world. And it just seems like I've worked in a lot of mediums. I've worked in music, you know, I've been a professional artist and other stuff. And comics just, the refrain is comics will break your heart. And it, it does have that tendency to do so. So yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:14] I guess platforms will come and go, but comics abide. So we, we, we all shoulder on. Um, but usually I ask people what they're, they're working on, but everybody should know that you are regularly knocking out the uncanny X-Men right now, which is more than a full-time gig. I'd imagine. Um, I'd have to say it's an incredibly fun read. Krakoa was too serious for me. So I'm really enjoying a more lighthearted touch that you and Gail are putting out. And I'll spare you a bunch of questions on that front, but please draw more dragons.

[00:50:44] That's all I ask. I'm having fun with it. So it's, it's, uh, she, she keeps finding ways to bring Satorang back into the story. Um, and I think she has some, some long-term plans for Satorang. So it's, uh, that's, that stuff is fun. You know, I mean, uncanny, it's a really great gig. This is the book that got me into reading comics. So getting to draw it is a lifetime, you know, a dream come true. So, uh, I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. Um, I am working on some other stuff at Marvel. They'll be announced soon. So that's, but it doesn't take away from the uncanny stuff.

[00:51:12] So, uh, that'll be, that'll be fun whenever that's finally announced. Uh, yeah, I've left lots of plates in the air, but it's all good stuff. Yeah. I mean, you gotta have plates in the air. If you don't, I mean, gotta put food on the table. That's, that's the name of the game. Amen, brother. All right. Well, where can people find you online? So, um, I'm at David Marquez.com. I have a link tree on there, which has all my stuff. I'm on Instagram. I'm on, I'll call it Twitter till I die. Um, you know, uh, threads, blue sky.

[00:51:42] Um, but all of that through David Marquez.com, which is both my, uh, my online store. And also it's has all my content info on there. So, and then, yeah, I mean, uh, every month on candy comes out, you know, one and a half times a month. So, uh, I'm, I'm on a lot of those issues, but not all of them. And then yeah, unchosen comes out this summer, uh, on July 9th, I think is issue number one issue two has been solicited as well. That's August 13th. Um, so yeah, for people who are listening, please pre-order if you can at the comic shop.

[00:52:08] Um, it helps us, helps them and be out a ton just kind of helping, uh, us know that people are actually interested in reading the book. Yeah. I highly encourage everybody to get in the pre-orders. It's clearly a comic book, Eddie favorite, uh, Doug and Louise actually do a monthly spelunking the solicit section and they both had it at a, as a golden pick of the month, which I had no idea about until Louise reached out and said, Hey, I, you're, you're interviewing David. And that was our pick of the month.

[00:52:36] So it was not me pressuring, um, but the artists, the art is stunning. It's one of those great bite-sized chunks of a meal, like a good burger that when you bite into it, you're immediately satisfied. That is, that is my food illustration for it. Um, I always like to wrap up with a shout out. So this can be someone who did you a solid recently or something that inspired you. And I'll, I'll go first to give you a second to ponder. Mine goes out actually to the comics creators who are killing it right now over on Tik TOK.

[00:53:04] If you aren't following my Troy, Stephanie Phillips and Michael Avon. You are missing out because they have very, very different, unique voices. And they've, that they've managed to find a personal voice on the platform. That is definitely worth watching to get all these different flavors. You know, Stephanie's doing a little bit of fashion and definitely some sarcasm just about being a woman writing in the space and the nature of online criticism and how much you get hit with that stuff.

[00:53:32] Michael's being his Gandalf self and he's out there giving out sage wisdom that people absolutely should be paying attention to. And, and Mike's just a really candid perspective of somebody who's been in the industry for a long time. He had one the other day where it's like, yeah, I know I peaked 15 years ago, but I'm still here and this is still me. Um, and they're all very, very enjoyable. So I'll, I'll put links in the show notes so people can check that out. But what do you have? Yeah. So phrase the question again.

[00:54:02] So I make sure I'm, I'm framing. Yeah. It's just, it's just a shout out. Something, somebody that did a solid for you or something that inspired you recently. Yeah. Um, so I mean, this is gonna sound very hokey and does not really relate to anybody else in the world beyond outside of my, my small little circle. But, um, so my wife, we've been married for about 10 years. And, um, one thing that a lot of people will talk about who work in, in creative industries is that a lot of us would not be able to do what we do if not for the support of, of

[00:54:31] our families and often big partners specifically, whether it's financial, which it certainly was early on, especially. Um, but it also just kind of like emotional and everything else. And, you know, one of the things that, um, I have really grown to appreciate more and more as, you know, uh, my, my life, my career's moved forward is like the importance of having somebody kind of in your corner. Yeah. And, um, throughout when things are easy, when things are hard and, um, no, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's now super hokey and everything else.

[00:55:01] But yeah, like I've been very, I've been thinking a lot recently about how fortunate I am to have a partner that is as smart and intelligent and, um, will call me on my bullshit when I need it. Uh, so yeah, my, my wife is awesome. Uh, so Tara, I love you, but, uh, more broadly, just the thought of appreciate the people who are around you who have your back.

[00:55:27] You know, uh, I think a lot of us can get mired in our own tunnel vision of whatever's going on and not, and forget that like, you know, we, we are, whatever you have, that's good in your life. Chances are there's someone around you who has helped to make that happen. And it's worth being kind of finding space for gratitude. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I mean, that, that's perfect. Uh, it's something I try to do every day, every day before I go to sleep, I have, I guess

[00:55:56] it's my version of, of prayer, which is, you know, I give thanks. I have my, my gratitude and I try to remember the small things as, as somebody who struggles with an autoimmune condition, it's been very, very grounding to make gratitude a practice that I do every day. So I, I'm, I highly recommend it to anybody. That's cool. David, thanks for hanging out with me today. It's been a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Hey man, thanks for having me. It was a blast. Of course. This is Byron O'Neill on behalf of all of us at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:56:25] Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time. Take care, everybody. This is Byron O'Neill, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening. We'll war�, baby. Thanks for listening. We'll be right back.