Jason Aaron Interview - Bug Wars

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[00:01:13] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo and wow is all I can say for the guest I have today. He's written a couple of comics you might have heard of like Southern Bastards, Scout. He's written Punisher, Max, The Avengers, Thor. He has been involved in the War of the Realms.

[00:01:39] We're going to talk about Bug Wars and there's Absolute Superman. There are too many to name quite frankly. We could just take up 40 minutes of the podcast, me listing all of his credits. Oh, Star Wars, which is one of my favorite Star Wars runs. But please welcome to the podcast, Jason Aaron. Jason, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing pretty good. How are you? I'm doing very good. I'm very excited to talk to you.

[00:02:09] So I've read, you know, I've read a handful of the things you've written over the years. But I'm a big fan of your work. I thought Bug Wars was so surprising, I think, to me. It seems like you and Mahmoud Asrar, who's the artist on it, and it's Matthew Wilson and Becca Cowrie, the rest of the creative team. Heather Antos is the editor. It was billed, I think, when I first heard about it.

[00:02:39] You know, I think this was in the issue somewhere that it's like, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids meets Game of Thrones. And I thought, oh, that's like a really fun kind of premise. And it seemed almost too good to be true. And it is so damn beautiful in the execution of it. I mean, it is like it has become my favorite series. I'm telling everybody about it. I just I've read the first volume.

[00:03:09] I read it again today, getting ready for this. And I just it's just it's so much fun. First off, Mahmoud's artwork is phenomenal. Phenomenal. Yeah, I it just seems not like it's it's wrong to say it seems like a strange choice, like at this point in in your career. But like, damn it, it's just so much fun. I I love it. Thanks. Yeah.

[00:03:39] I mean, it certainly feels that way for me and Mahmoud both. Um, I mean, the the, um, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids meets Game of Thrones was my tagline. I think that's the best way to to kind of sum this story up. It is on surface what would be a kid story. You know, the the oh, no, I'm shrunk kind of stories.

[00:04:03] The like, you know, kid kid finds some mystical relic and it shrinks him down to the size of a bug and he goes on an adventure in his backyard. That's usually going to be a, you know, something you're going to watch on Disney plus, right? Like that's a, that's a kid story. This is the decidedly not kid story version of that. Yeah. It is decidedly not for kids. Right. The, the, the kid is he, we don't, we don't say his exact age. I mean, he's, he's a teenager.

[00:04:33] He's got an older brother. Um, and, and the world he finds in his backyard is, is incredibly, uh, violent and brutal and deadly. And then there's kingdoms of tiny people called mites who live among the various kinds of insects. So there's the ant people and the beetle people and the, uh, maggot monks and the, um, wasp riders who are like, um, sort of like the wasp riding Vikings.

[00:05:00] Um, and his kids gets plopped into the middle of this world. And it comes to discover that his dad had some kind of, his dad who's died, who got horribly eaten to death by, by insects, um, knew about this and was a part of it. And so there's a, it's, it's sort of like a weird Southern family drama, which, you know, I've written a few of those. Um, Oh, sure. It's set in Alabama where I grew up. It's literally set.

[00:05:29] It's, you know, I've, I've said, strangely enough, this is like one of the most personal books I've ever done, which it's the, it's the most like true fantasy kind of story I've done, but it is deeply personal. And that, that house and that backyard were my backyard when I was, you know, 10, 12 years old, when I was the age, when I was, um, watching Thunder the Barbarian on Saturday, Saturday morning and discovering Robert E. Howard Conan stories and falling in love with comics.

[00:06:00] And, and spending most of my time when I was not inside reading, running around that yard and running through those woods, um, making up stories. You know, I think falling in love with storytelling and really to, to me, I think my origin story as a writer is that backyard. So this is the exact, this is the same yard. Like I drew the map and then Becca Carey cleaned it up and did a much prettier version of it.

[00:06:25] But, um, this, this feels like a story about me getting in touch with that kid version of myself, all the stuff that that kid was into. One of the first comics I fell in love with was sort of the atom, which was, you know, Ray Palmer, the atom going on a fantasy adventure. And the, the, the, this lost civilization of tiny, tiny people. So the roots of this kind of go all the way back to that.

[00:06:51] But this is really about me taking all that stuff I was into as a kid stuff that was really going to define, I think, who I was ultimately going to be as a comic book writer. And just, you know, me present day, uh, guy who's been doing this for, for 20 years now, uh, doing my take on all the stuff that kid was into. Um, and yeah, we, the, the trade first trade just came out, um, last month.

[00:07:20] That's the first six issues is pre beefy trade. Um, cause we did a bunch of back matter and, and every issue, um, kind of different documents detailing what, you know, what's the society of the ant people like, and how is that different than, than the spider witches? And, and we dive deep into that and all the back matter. So all that's in there. Uh, plus we had a couple of oversized issues. So it's a, it's a big hefty chunk.

[00:07:49] Uh, uh, six issues, really a kind of story with a beginning, middle and an end, but that's, that's just the beginning. And there's a lot more bug wars, uh, to come. Well, I, I, I, I'm excited. Uh, I love the back matter and yeah, the, um, you know, each kind of issue ends.

[00:08:08] You know, for listeners with, uh, some drawings, some sketches of the different sex of, of the mites and like more information about them and about their kind of their, their civilization. Um, cause there's so much like intense world building that is done, you know, in the, uh, like all throughout the comic, like there, there's, there's so much to look at in this. And yeah, um, it's interesting to hear you say it's like a deeply personal story.

[00:08:37] Like that is your backyard, uh, that, that you grew up in. Do you think this is a story you, you still could have written earlier in your career? Or is it something that you, now, as you've done so many different comics and told different stories that you've, you've come around to telling this one? I mean, it's, it's definitely an idea I've had for a long time. Like it's when I've been kicking around and I had it under different titles and kind of different forms.

[00:09:06] I had some of the, the family part of it sketched out different ideas for, for the different sex of mites, but, but it really took a long time to come together. I think I need, I think there was stuff I needed to do before I could do this. I think I needed to write a Thor, you know, world building was a big part of my Thor run and the war of the realms.

[00:09:27] The whole idea of that was really just, I want to explore the, the different realms of Norse mythology because they're kind of the main, a big part of, um, uh, Thor's landscape and what separates him from all the other heroes. Cause Spider-Man's not going to, you know, Niflheim or, or Svartlheim to fight, to fight crime. Thor is the only one doing that. And I didn't, I didn't, when I took over as Thor writer, I didn't, I couldn't name all those realms.

[00:09:55] I didn't know who lived there, how they were different. And so I wanted the book to go to each one. And, and I, I loved doing, uh, that stuff and using a war to kind of explore all those realms and who live there and dig a little bit into the culture of that. I've always been a big fantasy nerd kind of going back to when I first read Robert E. Howard's stuff and first read, um, Lord of the Rings.

[00:10:21] Uh, so I, I wanted to do an even deeper dive version of that. So, um, bug wars, you know, I mean, I, I love the idea that the power of that sort of metaphor of, you know, you can step outside your back door as a kid and any kind of kingdom you want to imagine is, is there waiting for you. In this kid's case, it's literally there in his backyard.

[00:10:45] So there's, you know, people hidden under that brush pile and, and, you know, kingdom in the, in the overgrown garden over there. And so I'd loved using that back matter to dive deep into, you know, what, what is the culture of the spider witches and the culture of the, the wall spreaders and, and all that stuff like that, that, that that's been even more fun than I thought it would be, uh, doing that stuff.

[00:11:12] And we did quite a bit of it and you'll continue to see more of that. The next, the next thing we're doing with bug wars is we have, um, uh, bug wars, the spider, which special, which comes out in January, which is an oversized one shot. I want to do kind of over time. And we'll do sort of different versions of these, um, kind of big specials, uh, focusing on the different, uh, sex of might.

[00:11:39] So we started out with the, the spider witches who are, you know, we met one of those Wista, um, who was one of the main characters in book one was, it was a spider witch. So this, this, this issue will, you know, kind of be a buffer between book one and book two, and you'll get stories that, that tease what's to come in book two.

[00:12:00] You'll get stories, um, uh, that are kind of flashbacks and fill in, fill in, um, stuff we didn't know moments we haven't seen before feeling more of kind of, um, the weird dark society, the spider witches. Um, so it's got, it's got multiple stories in it.

[00:12:19] And I did for the back matter and that one, I wrote a pro story, which I actually did for the bug wars, ash can that we put out at New York comic-con, um, last year. I wrote a pro story in that, that was like a prequel to book one, basically that we didn't, we, I didn't reprint. We didn't reprint in the issue one. It's not in the trade. Um, I wanted to use that, use bug words as a kind of way to get back to writing prose.

[00:12:47] Cause I used to do a lot of that before I, uh, my comic career took off. So did a, did another story, a bigger one pro story that'll, um, is a flashback kind of about, so it's something else pulled from the journals of slate slate. Slaymaker's dad. So professor Jim Slaymaker, who used to walk the yard before his kid did, you know, we get a glimpse, you get a glimpse of him in book one.

[00:13:16] And I, I wanted him to look like, you know, he was from a cheesy 1970s, uh, fantasy or sci-fi movie sort of like, um, Um, what's the one where, where Sean Connery is like mostly naked Zardoz. Zardoz. Yes. So he, yes. So he's, his outfit is, is kind of similar to that.

[00:13:38] Um, so we get of like, we'll get a glimpse of kind of what his adventures were like when he was the one exploring the yard. Um, oh, that's awesome. And, and my mood, uh, draws, draws a story in that he writes a story in that. Um, and then I wrote, I wrote the main story, which, uh, Baltimore Rivas, uh, drew, who's a, another great, um, Kansas city artists. Um, and so I think it's going to be a pretty cool package.

[00:14:08] We, we do, you know, we got different cool variant covers and we also, uh, for the first time we're doing, um, one of those poly bagged covers. So we did like a, a, my mood drew a, you know, a decidedly not safe for work cover. Like, you know, or like our triple X, I wanted to call it a bug, a bug fucking crazy variant, but we, we thought better of that, but no, that's what it is in heart.

[00:14:35] So, so it's one of those, we're not going to show it to you. You're going to have to go out and buy that, buy that variant and rip it open. If, if you want to see it, we're not putting it online anywhere. Um, so yeah, that'll be the special that comes out in January and then you will get booked to, um, later next year should be in the next summer. And that'll be, you know, my mood coming back to, to draw the entirety of that.

[00:15:01] It'll be, I think a little bit bigger, a little bit longer than book one and it'll bring in, there'll be some new characters. We'll go to a couple of spots in the yard that we didn't get to in book one. And that there's, you know, there's more stuff on that map in issue one than we saw. So there's a couple more parts for us to explore. There's a couple more, you know, in particular, there's one sec that we haven't met at all really. And that's the, the, the roach knights who kind of, who live in the house.

[00:15:30] They're the one tribe of mites who live around people. Um, so their culture and, and everything is very different about them. I, you know, I, I love those. I've always loved those kinds of stories about these tiny people living under, um, you know, right underneath their feet. So I liked the version of that that's in the backyard, but there's also a big part of those stories are the, you know, like the borrowers or the littles and it's people who live in a house, you know, in the floorboards of a house or in the walls.

[00:15:59] And I've always loved that. So I think you can expect, you know, another map, like a cutaway show. And what's the, what is the roach knight kingdom look like hidden, hidden in the attic or beneath the floorboards. Um, so yeah, so we'll have a lot, a lot more stuff, uh, new characters and new stuff to dive into in book two, including, you know, if you read book one, there's kind of a glimpse of, uh, another faction you get at the very, very end of that on the last page.

[00:16:29] Yeah. Yeah. That's, um, won't spoil it, but that's a pretty cool reveal. So there'll be, there'll be more to come with, with those guys as well. Awesome. And that, and that's still, that's still to be just the beginning. Like I, you know, when, when you launch a creator on book, you never really know how it's going to go. I mean, they're all so very different. Every concept is, is new. Um, it's about kind of how things are, how sales are at that moment in time.

[00:16:58] Does this book catch anybody's attention or does it not? You, you never know. You never have any idea. Yeah. I felt good about the concept and felt, um, great about the work that, uh, my mood, uh, was putting on the page. And I think it's a beautiful, beautiful book, but still, you never know, is anybody going to care about this? We're going to pick it up. Thankfully the book, the book did well. So it, it, I mean, we already wanted to continue it and do more of it. I didn't want to launch it as an ongoing series.

[00:17:27] I liked the idea of trying to do this as kind of a series of minis and one shots. Um, you know, I, I know that to me, there's no perfect, perfect recipe for right now of how you launch a successful creator on book. I think you have to do what works for each one. So I know if you got a, if you got a subscription at your local comic shop or on one of those, um, you know, sites where, where you can set up subscriptions means you have to go re resubscribe.

[00:17:56] Maybe like, maybe you can tell your local comic shop, give me all the bug wars whenever it comes out. Maybe you got to go, well, now I subscribed to the first mini series. Now I got to go subscribe to the next one. I know that's a pain in pain in the butt, but I do think this is the best way to, to tell this story. Um, so there'll continue to be more volumes after book two and they'll kind of, you know, the cast will grow, the scale of it will grow and expand.

[00:18:21] And I've got a big, big overall, overall arc for the story that we're telling. Uh, but beyond that, I don't think even that is necessarily the end of this story. I mean, there's still stories to be told about flashbacks about the dad and what he was up to in the yard. There's the question of, you know, what are these mites and where, where do they come from?

[00:18:46] Are they, are they only for some reason in this one backyard in the small town in Alabama? So why, um, and, and then kind of what, what happens with Slade and his family? What happens if, if his mom finds out about this, you know, I think there's so many stories. I would love to tell what these characters in this world, um, in kind of different forms.

[00:19:13] Like I said, I'm love, loving doing the pro stories as well. So, um, assuming that people want to continue to read it, you know, and, and continue to pick it up. Like we, I think we have lots and lots of bug war stories to, to give you guys. Oh, I mean, the world is so rich and in, you mentioned it earlier in terms of the, the family drama at the heart of it. Cause you have the mystery of their father's death of, uh, of, of Jim's death.

[00:19:42] And then you have the, I guess the, you've set up the conflict between the two brothers, mom trying to, you instantly see mom struggling, like trying to do everything she can to kind of keep, you know, the family together. And then Slade goes on this, you know, little, no pun intended, uh, adventure in the backyard and setting that con that family conflict up in the beginning.

[00:20:10] And then kind of peppering the scenes as to what's going on with mom and, and the older brother, Sydney throughout is, um, I mean, it just really captures that the family drama of it all in between Slade going on this. It's absolutely wild adventure.

[00:20:29] Um, what, one of the things I was thinking about with your writing in particular and series like Southern bastards and scalped in particular is, you know, making them feel authentic. And I always think that language in particular, like the way your characters talk is kind of the most effective way to do that. And it's something you do very well.

[00:20:51] And I was thinking about that reading this because the, the language in terms of the curses in this is like next level. Um, where do you think like that comes from?

[00:21:08] Like the, like to, to, to dig in, to do that, because I think there's an art to it where, and, and your characters, like in particular, I usually don't read from, from the comics, but just from bug horse. A reading from bug wars issue two, if you will indulge me, uh, Jason, but just so listeners understand like what we're talking about. If you haven't read bug, you bug wars yet, this is a scene in issue two.

[00:21:35] And this is just one of my favorite speeches that a character yells. He says, scab of the black nest spits on your truce. No true raider, whatever, except the shame of peace. We sting until we die from now until the end bugs come until the sky turns black from the squarming of the, my brood will burn the city to the ground. My wasps will lay their eggs in your mother's eyes. Your blood beasts are weak.

[00:22:03] My bodily humors will burn holes in their bowels and leave them drowning in their own drizzling shit. I mean, this is just a little tape. Poetry. I, I, I honestly think it is. I think, I mean, it is. There's so, there's so many moments like that though, where you have like these. Yeah, this, this is the total setup for like a kid's fantasy adventure.

[00:22:30] I mean, but the way these characters speak and act and the brutality of it all. You know, but I was asking you about the language. Like, is that just something that you've kind of mastered over the years? Is there something about your background that you think you are particularly good at this? Cause I think you are. I mean, what, what is it? I mean, I, no, I mean, I certainly don't feel like I've mastered anything.

[00:22:58] I mean, I, um, I mean, what you see right there is, is multiple drafts. Um, like the, the language of this, you know, the language is such a huge, important part of fantasy stories, right? Like the names of things and names of characters, the names of weapons, the names of factions, names of places, and then just how these characters talk, you know, and how is, how do the beetle

[00:23:27] writers talk in a way that's different from, um, you know, the ant people like the, that's all part of the world building building. So thankfully with bug wars, we had a luxury of time and that Mahmood and I have been working on, worked on book one for a long time. Um, I had the idea, I had fleshed out the world and fleshed out notes on the, the different sex work, started working on scripts.

[00:23:52] Uh, Mahmood started drawing, even as we moved forward, I continued to go back and, and rewrite the language of the book. So characters names change. Some of them changed three, four or five times. Um, until we actually, you know, until I actually got to the point where, okay, we're sitting issue one to print. So anything in that is, is locked in, but I, I went back and changed a lot of stuff and

[00:24:17] kept, um, you know, the, um, the, the, the names that, that when, when Slade, um, gets his amulet and kind of takes on these powers and fill in this role. What is that role called that? The, those names changed again and again and again. And so that scene and that scene that you read that scene in particular, I know that was not the version that was in at all. The version that was in my, the first draft of that issue that I wrote, maybe not in the second draft.

[00:24:47] So I think having that luxury of time, I mean, I'll, I always go back and do lettering drafts of whenever I write a script, you know, when it gets drawn, I go back and, and, uh, want to tweak the tweak everything. Um, now that I'm looking at the art, you know, to take stuff out and change stuff around. And I do that all the time with bug wars. I did that to a profound degree, a much greater degree because one, because we had the time

[00:25:16] to do so too, because we were, this stuff was all being born, you know, as we were making this. So we're figuring out as we go, like, what are these characters look like? What are they called? How do they sound like that? That stuff was all growing and changing. Um, we were figuring it out together. And then again, because, because this is, this is the biggest kind of true fantasy story I've ever done. I'm a big fantasy nerd. Um, and I wanted to get it right.

[00:25:43] I wanted it to be the best version of, of itself that it could be. So I, that's why I think I just kept going back to that over and over and over again. And, and also because, I mean, again, as I've said this many times, like writing for me is a very, feels very selfish pursuit. And that I just sit down and make up stuff that makes me happy. Um, I don't know how else to do this. I think that's, that has to be kind of the extent of the audience that you write for is

[00:26:13] the audience of one. Um, so I also couldn't stop thinking about this world, even as I needed to go write other stuff. There were times where I was like, you know what, you know what? I can't work on this script this week because this bug war stuff is like clawing at, clawing at the end of my inside of my skull, trying to get out. And you, there are times I remember I, I saw, got to meet Ray Bradbury years ago when I was

[00:26:42] in college and he talked about, you know, sometimes you have to write like what's, what's boiling on the stove. Like that's the thing that really wants to come out right now. And the, and, and so you need to chase that one. So bug wars was like that for me a lot of the time over the course of the year or so that we were working on it where I, so I was also doing it, doing it just because it made me

[00:27:07] happy and because that my, those, those cylinders were firing in my head, wanting to figure that stuff out. Um, and, and, and so the moment that I got to issue six, you know, finished writing it, I was right away. I was missing it. I was like, when, like, we got to figure out like when, when are we getting more out? And so kind of jumped right into the special and then have been working on, on book two.

[00:27:34] So, so yeah, that's, I mean, there's right. Writing is work, you know, like, I mean, maybe Cormac, I've read Cormac McCarthy talked about how he just kind of sat down and, and the stuff just flowed out the, that was the great Cormac McCarthy, but the rest of us, you know, like you, it's work, like you kind of build it in phases, you know, like, like you're an architect, um, figuring out a house,

[00:28:01] like you gotta have a, you gotta have the designs, but then you gotta lay the foundation and build the walls. And what I say, this, like, I know how to build a house. I have no idea how to build a house. All I know how to do is write comic books, but I just know it, you know, you, you, you, you, you get it on paper and, and, and kind of different stages until you get a finished product. And then you go back and look at it again, you know, and look at it again and again and

[00:28:27] again until, uh, I mean, working in comics, you're always working on deadlines. So sometimes, you know, it's what's, I don't remember who first said it, but that old saying of like a project is never done. It's just abandoned. You know, at some point you just, it's gotta go, you know, like it's gotta go to the printer. It's gotta be done. You gotta let it go. But bug wars, thankfully, like I said, we it's ours. So, um, you know, we got to decide when it was coming out, um, how many pages it needed

[00:28:56] to be all that kind of stuff, which I love the luxury of that, but also just had the time to pour a pour over it again and again and again until it got to a point. I mean, sometimes when you do that, it gets to the point where you have no ability to discern it anymore if it's any good or not, you know, cause you've looked at it a thousand times and you're like, maybe this is garbage. Maybe everyone will hate it. I have no idea.

[00:29:24] These words are all just gibberish to me now cause I've read it a million times. But before you get to that point, I think you just, you get to shape it and reshape it again and again and again until you get it to finely chiseled as you could possibly make it. All right, everybody. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again. I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media.

[00:29:54] My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know. And now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing. Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together. So I guess, question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkinforge. If you don't know who Arkinforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive.

[00:30:19] Allowing you to build, play, and export animated maps, including in-person Fog of War capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture. Now I'm set to easily build high-res animated maps, saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign. That's a win every day in my book. Check them out at arkinforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you.

[00:30:49] And big thanks to Arkinforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. What do you do, though, when you do get to that point? If you've worked it to the point where you're in your own head about it, you don't know, is this any good? What do you do then? Is it just like, well, it's got to go? Yeah. Usually by that point, it's got to go out the door.

[00:31:17] So it's like, I don't know. You don't want to make any crazy last minute decisions. Like I watched an episode, one of the cooking shows one time where they're always cooking under the clock, you know, and it's clocks ticking down. This guy's made this lovely, lovely dish. The last minute, he just decides to crack a raw egg on top of it. And then instantly realizes as time expires, like, why did I do that? That was a terrible idea.

[00:31:45] So sometimes you just have to, you know, you're walking a fine line of confidence, of feeling like, you know, this is good. I know what I'm doing and feeling like, oh, this is garbage. You know, I'll never work again. You just kind of bounce or bounce back and forth between the two of those. But just try to do the best version that you can. Yeah. I wanted to ask you have the intro for the trade.

[00:32:13] There's a it's an intro by an entomologist and the the different species of bugs and the way they're all talked about. It seems like you've done a ton of research to get a lot of that, you know, right. Was this an interest of yours or just the nature of you're doing little people and you're doing bug wars? Because it's it's it seems very detailed. Well, no, not really an interest of mine.

[00:32:40] I mean, other than being a kid who grew up in the woods, grew up in the backwoods and I spent all my time rolling around in the grass and, you know, lifting up rocks and looking at what crawled out from underneath. But no, I never I'd never read that much about insects before until I realized, OK, we're going to do this book. And then I loaded up. There's various shelves of lots and lots of bug, you know, research books from like the,

[00:33:08] you know, really intellectual down to like the ones written for children, because those usually have better pictures, you know, like big. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big colorful pictures. So Mahmood and I have both like loaded up on bug books. And yeah, the I mean, the bugs in the book are are all real. You know, there's no like you haven't introduced like any completely fictional insects yet.

[00:33:35] But this this yard, again, is a is a is a little yard in the backwoods of Alabama, yet it contains insects from all over the world. And that, you know, you find out the the dad was he kind of left his his family in dire financial straits when he died because he owed so much so many thousands of dollars to exotic insect dealers from all over the planet because he was buying all these rare bugs.

[00:34:00] So so any insect that is interesting from anywhere on the planet somehow magically exists in this in this one yard. So, yeah, all the bugs we talk about in the back matter are real insects. And we you know, I just dug up all all the weirdest, grossest ones I could possibly find, you know, the all the all the spiders who who lay their young, you know, in the flesh of

[00:34:26] other of their living bugs so that they can eat them from the inside when they're hatched. That's the kind of bug insights that you get. But I've said from the get go, this is if you love bugs, this is the book for you. Also, if you hate bugs, this is also the book for you. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Adrian Smith, who does a lot of he's like a bug influencer. Basically, he's big on Instagram and has a has a lot of stuff on on YouTube. He's also a comic fan.

[00:34:55] So he did some videos with him that Image Comics set up kind of we're first promoting the book and then got him got him to write the intro, which was which was really fun. And he talked about part of his intro is he talks about, you know, in Action Comics, number one, it's like page one or page two right from the get go. When they're talking about explaining Superman's powers or referencing, you know, crickets jumping and bugs that can lift way more than their body weight.

[00:35:25] And just so using insects to kind of define the very first superhero, which I thought was really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as I as I we record this, I'm recording it from my basement, which is as I walk down here right where I was going to sit to record. But my basement is home to camel crickets. So I always I was I was thinking about that as I came down here to record this about bug wars.

[00:35:52] I had to deal with a camel, a camel cricket in my spot. It was it was last week or the week before I was working on that bug wars pro story, the one for the spider witch special. So a story that goes very deep into kind of, you know, there's a spider going around killing mites. And and we'd learn about the its connection to this particular way. So writing a lot of spider centric stuff.

[00:36:17] I'm also in the basement that I sit down here on my love seat to watch TV and there's a spider crawling on me. So I don't know if that was a good sign or a bad if they were trying to stop me from revealing their secrets or. Yeah, just like having me a hey, good job. Good job, buddy. They have a plot. They have a plot to stop. They just want me to know they're watching, I guess. I wanted to talk to a little to talk about a little bit of if we could the work you've been doing in for D.C.

[00:36:47] in the absolute universe in terms of absolute Superman, which is it's been amazing. I mean, all of those stories that D.C. are putting out now working on something like that, kind of, you know, getting to play in the Superman sandbox, but, you know, not being bound by really all the years of continuity is.

[00:37:11] Is that like more freeing than than if it was like the regular continuity Superman or like it's Superman, no matter what, it's it's it's stressful. And there's guidelines you have to go by in terms of editorial. I mean, you know, yes and no to that, I guess. I mean, I yeah, I think for me, especially me coming in as a guy who is as a writer is brand new at D.C., right? Like I'm the new kid on the block.

[00:37:40] I just showed up. So I've been you know, I grew up as a D.C. kid. I read so many of the kind of books right before crisis and then right after crisis were my sweet spot. I I devoured pretty much everything D.C. was doing. But then I've been more firmly mired in Marvel continuity over the course of the last 17 years, because that's where I was working full time.

[00:38:08] So I've still read a lot of D.C. stuff, but but I haven't worked there. So for me coming over the chance to get to do a completely fresh take on Superman, yeah, is incredibly liberating and freeing. And that like, oh, well, I don't have to worry about anything. I don't have to worry about any story. Superman story that's ever been told. We get to build all this kind of fresh from the ground up.

[00:38:33] But as a part of that, yeah, you're also you're not trying to reinvent Superman completely. Right. Like this character has been around for almost 100 years and has endured because of what's what's powerful with him, what resonates about him. And a lot of that goes back to, you know, to know who who that character was in 1938 and who who he was to to Siegel and Schuster.

[00:38:57] And so with me, really, the driving thing with with Absolute Superman was to do exactly that. Look at like what did that character mean to the to the guys who created him? What's what's most important about about who he is and what he represents and how do we do that? A fresh take on that that looks at it through the lens of those those previous 90 years of stories didn't exist. And and I'm creating Superman here today for the very first time.

[00:39:27] So what choices do I make different than they than what they've made, you know, 90 years ago? And and how are how are how do parts and parts of his origin get reflected in different ways? And what do we need and what do we not need? What can we you know, what can we change? What do we need to change in order to tell a more concise version of that story?

[00:39:51] And so to me, that started with, you know, Superman was kind of this ultimate immigrant story as created by two kids who were the sons of immigrants. Well, that's a that's a difference. There was a different story to them in 1938 than it is, you know, in the present day. So I wanted Superman story to kind of be a little darker and more challenging. You know, the the guy from from the 1930s has had it kind of easy in some regards.

[00:40:21] Right. His whole planet blew up, but he was a baby. He doesn't he doesn't remember his parents. He doesn't remember the trauma of of of of what he lost. He doesn't even know what he lost. He doesn't know anything about it other than, you know, what he learns eventually from some crystals. You know, the the yeah, that's so this guy's older. So he does. He has a very Kryptonian identity. He loves his parents, has a great relationship with them.

[00:40:50] So he remembers very vividly what was taken away from him when when his planet was destroyed. And then the the classic Superman we know, you know, gets rocketed to Earth and gets found by the most loving couple that he possibly could be found by and gets this very idyllic upbringing in Canada. And he opens us before he goes off to be Superman. Well, I mean, this version of the character, he's still going to wind up being that guy who does the Superman things. Right.

[00:41:19] But the fact that he becomes that guy and is fighting for this planet that he comes to love, despite everything he's enduring along the way of a planet that really, really is telling him he doesn't belong here. And, you know, he sees kind of the worst of that humanity has to offer the way he's treated. Yet still, he's the one fighting for us. I mean, I think that's a powerful version of that story. So.

[00:41:47] So, yeah, the you know, the idyllic upbringing in Kansas didn't happen in that to absolute Superman. I mean, we still see there's he came came here and I say here because I live in Kansas. You know, I'm in Kansas right now. I'm I believe the first ongoing Superman writer to actually live in Kansas. Really? I think so. Even though. Oh, wow.

[00:42:12] Even though Smallville, I guess it wasn't historically wasn't always said to be in Kansas. You know, it's kind of changed over the years as to where Smallville was, where Metropolis was. And if you if you read if you've been reading absolute Superman, I put there's there's clues in there without coming out and saying exactly where Smallville is. There's there'll be clues as we've seen a little bit of Metropolis so far. We'll we'll go back there soon.

[00:42:40] There'll be more clues there. So where like where geographically, where are these places? You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think we're putting down flags a little more with the absolute universe because we can't because we're making all this up as we go. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, in terms of where, you know, where Batman and Superman and Wonder Woman, um, actually at in relation to each other. So there'll be kind of more clues to that as we go.

[00:43:06] But yeah, the the issue that just came out, I forgot what issue number it is. Was it 12 or 13? I think 13. It's the beginning of the kind of the battle of, um, the, well, the siege of Smallville, the Battle of Kansas. And there's a lot of Kansas references that I put in there.

[00:43:25] So trying to make it very, that part of it, even though that part of the story is radically different from the version that we know, that's still a very important piece of the puzzle and, and the story of kind of the Kints and Superman's relationship to Kansas. That's really just beginning. So there'll be much more of that to come. Yeah. It was 13. 13 just came out. Cool. Thanks. I forget the issues. Cause you know, yeah. Last week. Cool. Yeah. I've been loving it. I've been loving the absolute universe.

[00:43:55] It seems like the response, at least some of the circles I'm in and on social media seems to have been overwhelmingly, you know, positive to all of the absolute universe. Um, yeah, I, in particular, absolute Superman, I've, I've just really been loving. Um, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, you know, we all, as we were working on these books, we all, um, very much had it on our minds of like, we want these to be, um, accessible to everybody.

[00:44:21] Like, have you, if you've been reading Superman and Batman comics your entire life, we want this to still be a book that we all recognize the characters as a book that'll surprise you and hook you. And the, and the, and, and also if you've never read a comic in your entire life, like we wanted this to be something that would hopefully draw you in and appeal to you, which, you know, we, as, as comic book creators, we have those ambitions.

[00:44:48] So many times and with, with new projects and new initiatives. Um, with this, you know, I'm happy to say those, those turns out those people are real. Like I've met a lot of them over the course of the last year of doing conventions and appearances. Um, I was in a comic book store just the other day and somebody was picking up Superman and, and the, you know, absolute was kind of what got him collecting comics.

[00:45:14] So I've met a surprising number of those people who, who have gotten into comics because of the absolute line, which is incredibly, incredibly gratifying and exciting. And, and you just feel the responsibility of that, of making sure like this is, we've done a cool thing here so far. Right. I think all of us working on these books, we've, we've created something that has struck a nerve in a big way. And, and it's just a question of how do we take care of it?

[00:45:42] And where do we go from here in a way where we don't want to squander what we've gotten and how we've been able to get people's attention. And so I think we, um, you know, we, we all talk about that a lot and we have regular calls and meetings where we're planning out, not just, you know, what are we doing in our individual, individual books, but what is the story of this universe? And how do we tell that in ways that are not what you would expect us to do?

[00:46:11] You know, I think the, the absolute evil one shot that came out a month or two ago that Al Ewing wrote was kind of the first piece of that. Um, and so I want this to, you know, I feel like these first, this first year of Superman has had a lot of surprises in it and they'll continue to be surprises. There's, there's surprises in the next issue in issue 14, which is kind of really the, what everything since issue one has been building towards.

[00:46:40] This is the first, this is kind of, in my mind, just one big arc. These first two, this, these first 14 issues, which will be two, two trades. That was, that was one story. The end of that story changes Superman and his world in a big way that we'll, we'll deal with going forward. So I think we want this to continue to be a book that's, uh, or a world, a universe that will surprise you and go, you know, we don't want to just do the, what seems obvious.

[00:47:09] Like, um, I think we want to continue to try to keep people on their toes with the absolute line. Yeah. Um, Jason, I don't want to keep it too much longer. I just wanted to mention, so listeners know a couple of things that, uh, I thought were pretty exciting. And Dynamite Comics has been doing some very exciting stuff recently. And I saw announced that you are going to be doing or writing a Thundar, the barbarian comic coming out, I think in January. Yeah, I think it is January.

[00:47:38] So I thought that that's, I mean, I don't, I don't know how many listeners will remember the Thundar, the barbarian cartoon, but I think that's very exciting. I think you absolutely remember the Thundar, the barbarian cartoon. Yeah. If you don't remember it, you're in for a treat. Yeah. It was, it was my favorite Saturday morning cartoon when I was a kid, when I was that same kid who, you know, was, was living in the bug wars house and playing in that backyard and falling in love with comics.

[00:48:07] He was a huge Thundar fan. So love that show. It's a, um, it's got one of the greatest, you know, opening title sequences in cartoon history where comet streaks between the earth and the moon and in, in 1994 and unleashes cosmic destruction. And then you flash forward 2000 years. So this is a post-apocalyptic story, but the world has become, you know, part like sword and sorcery.

[00:48:33] So it's, it's barbarians and weird mutant creatures and evil wizards. Um, and it was created, uh, by the, uh, in large part by Steve Gerber, the great Steve Gerber comic writer of creator of Howard, the duck. And, um, guy wrote tons and tons of amazing wild off the wall comic books. And then Alex Toth did the designs, a lot of the character designs. And then Jack Kirby took over for him and did tons of work on the, on the series.

[00:49:02] So the, um, the, the, the show has an incredible comic book pedigree. Uh, but despite that, this, um, this new book for dynamite is the first time Thundar has ever appeared in a comic book. So, um, so yeah, I was super, that was one of those jobs where I think I maybe told Nick Berucci, like, you know, I'll fight anybody else.

[00:49:27] You want to try to hire to write Thundar and like, I have to, I have to write this book. I think I've been waiting, waiting, um, you know, 40 years to, to get the chance to, to write my own version of Thundar. So I wanted to feel the, in the same way, you know, I'm proud of what I did on. And then I wanted to, to be a fan of the show. And, and how all of us working on that series were able to kind of make it feel big and important and weighty. Um, we want this to be the same thing.

[00:49:56] So I think it's, if you're a fan of the show, it's, it is, it is, uh, laden with references to the, to the show. So, but I think if you've never, if you've never seen it, um, the, you know, the, you'll, you'll still be able to pick up on the story and, and, and enjoy it, um, for everything that we pack in into the page.

[00:50:17] And it's gotta be, it's gotta be big, you know, it'll be, it's like a very special episode of Thundar where it's like the biggest threat and story he's ever faced. And we'll also kind of explore, um, the, the origin of the character, um, you know, kind of when he got his son sword and first met Ariel and Ookla, which, which, which was never really, which was never, um, on the show.

[00:50:42] So they, they, Gerber kind of had thoughts, thoughts on it, which he talks about in interviews and they kind of see the little bit of it in the opening, um, titles of the show, but they, they never got around to doing it. So we'll, so we'll also get, um, the, that story in the book too. Oh, awesome. Yeah. I mean, it was for listeners who aren't familiar. I think it was, it was on ABC for like two seasons, like 1979 and 80 or 80 and 81, like somewhere. Yeah.

[00:51:11] I think 80 and 81. Yeah. Then they kind of reran it for a bit after that. Yeah. Um, yeah, I love it. It's, it's, you know, it's on, you can get it on prime and DVD box set out. That's awesome. And I also saw announced that Hulu has, you know, uh, had made a pilot order for, for Southern bastards. So that's when, when you, when that news drops and I'm sure it's something, you know, you're

[00:51:40] involved in obviously, and either as a, you know, a producer or creator of the, of the initial comic book, um, with, you know, comic writers, sometimes artists sometimes talk about projects get, you know, optioned all the time and don't ever like go anywhere when it gets to a point though, where like, uh, Hulu has, you know, put in for a pilot order, um, you know, for a series, like, do you, do you get excited about stuff like that whenever it happens?

[00:52:09] Are you, or do you take the approach? Well, if it actually makes it to TV or is it, does that stuff, how much does that affect you to actually see something like that, you know, come to fruition or are you more of a practical, like, I'm just, you know, waiting for if I get paid. Yeah. I mean, I think you, I think when you go down that road a few times in terms of, of Hollywood, you, I mean, I've been involved in a lot of situations before that seemed very promising

[00:52:38] and cool people involved and you like how things look and then it all just fizzles out and goes nowhere, um, from things that were optioned. And, um, you know, the, the only thing I ever had that was filmed was the, the, um, there was a pilot of scalped, you know, that was shot back in the day. And so all that stuff is cool. And, and, um, I, I, I always prefer to be involved as opposed to not.

[00:53:09] Um, but you never know like what the secret sauce is of how does anything actually get made? Um, especially these days, it seems kind of, you know, you know, more challenging than ever, um, to get stuff made, um, with, with, uh, the package for Southern bastards. It's, it's a really, really exciting group of people.

[00:53:34] Um, and yeah, I've been a part of, of, of working on this for a few years and I'm very excited about what we got and felt, felt great to finally get that green light and to be moving moving forward on that. Um, and then we'll, then we'll see, you know, there's still no guarantee that you'll get to see it, that, that we'll get a full season. So those questions are all still to be answered. Um, if it does move forward, I'll, I'll be very involved in it. That's my plan.

[00:54:05] Um, but at the end of the day, um, I'm not looking to change jobs. Like I, I love what I do, if anything, the more I have been involved with Hollywood stuff over the years, I think it makes me appreciate even more what we get to do in comics and that, you know, our industry is certainly not perfect and, um, there's no perfect situation there,

[00:54:30] but we're so spoiled in terms of the fact that, you know, if I could make up an idea for a comic book tonight and know that I'm going to be able to bring this thing to life, right? Like I can get the script written. I can find an artist to draw it. We can find somebody to publish it. Um, so a matter of months after we, you know, figure out what that, what that book is, it, it'll exist and it'll be on shelves in comic book stores and you'll be able to go pick

[00:54:59] it up and read it and, and get the version of it that we wanted to make those of us who made it, this is what we wanted it to be. Um, I don't know how you ever walk away from that. Like that just sort of immediate gratification that, you know, the Hollywood is very much not that despite everything that's, that's great about it. Um, I think we're very, very spoiled in, in, in terms of comics and that if I want to do something, um, chances are I'm going to get to do it.

[00:55:27] And, and, um, that's, that's, that's hard to, hard to, what more can you ask for as a creator? Right. So, yeah. So yeah, I, I will, despite what else, you know, there's other stuff I'd like to do. Like I said, I'm enjoying getting back to writing some prose and I would love to, to do more of that and, um, I have other stuff I'm, you know, interested in, in terms of, uh, of Hollywood

[00:55:56] stuff, but none of that for me is ever going to replace like working in comics, which is what I've wanted to do since I was that kid, you know, watching Thunder. Um, I figured out around that time, once I, once I realized like people make comic books, like this is made by people and that's what they do for a living. I realized, well, that's, that's what I want to do.

[00:56:21] Um, and once I was somehow able to stumble my way into that industry, I, you know, I don't ever plan on leaving. No, that's awesome. Well, uh, Jason, I, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast, uh, tonight. Uh, I'll put links in the show notes listeners. I can't, I, you've heard me talk about comics before and, you know, I, I try to be very positive and, and tell you stuff that I like, uh, I, I love bug wars.

[00:56:48] I mean, if you pick up one comic that I've recommended on this podcast, it really should be bug wars. It is, it is so much fun. It is. I, I just, the language in it. Yeah. Jason is, is, is holding up the, the trade, but I'll put a link in the show that you can get it. Let your local comic shop know that you, that you want it. They should be able to get it for you. You can get it wherever you get your comic books.

[00:57:16] And also I'll, I'll put links and reminders, uh, to check out fund are to check out the, the, the spider, uh, spider, which special, what spider, which special, which is coming out as part of bug wars, thunder, the barbarian. Uh, and yeah, if you haven't read some of Jason's other comics, uh, I mean, Southern bastard scalped, um, are just tremendous.

[00:57:44] Uh, I'll also put a plug out for, uh, uh, Jason and I think it Ron Garney did men of wrath, which is one I really liked. So another very dark Southern crime drama. I'm also the, you know, 180 degrees away from that is I'm still doing, um, uncle Scrooge for Marvel. That's coming out right now.

[00:58:10] And I think issue three of that just came, came out recently. So issue four is, is the end of that mini series. And it's kind of, I did a uncle Scrooge story a couple of years ago called the uncle Scrooge and the infinity dime. And this is a followup. Oh yeah. Um, uncle Scrooge earth, earth, earth, earth mightiest, earth mightiest duck. Is that what it's called? Earth mightiest hero. Earth mightiest hero. I forgot the name of my own book. Um, yeah, that's, I'm a huge uncle Scrooge fan.

[00:58:40] That book has meant a lot to me. And so one more issue to go and I'm really proud of that whole package came together too. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Jason, thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. This has been awesome for me. Uh, and, uh, I'm a, this a huge fan of your work and does absolutely love what you and Mahmoud and the rest of the team have been, have done on, on bug wars. So cheers. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:59:07] And of course, shout out to my brother, Bobby, the cryptic creator corners, number one, most dedicated fan Bobby listens to all my episodes and he's going to be really annoyed that I've read all of bug wars. Thanks Bobby. Um, so yeah, thank you. Thank you. Listeners rate review us do all that stuff. They tell you to do for podcasts. It does really help. And, um, if you ever, you know, see me on social media and, uh, you need any comic recommendations, please let me know. Uh, I got plenty of them.

[00:59:34] Uh, so thank you very much for listening and, uh, I'll see you next time. Good night. Thanks. This is Byron O'Neill. One of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate review, subscribe all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening.

[01:00:00] If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics, Kate, listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.