Jeremy Whitley Interview - Navigating With You

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:10] Have you ever been to a martial arts tournament like this?

[00:00:13] When I was a kid, there was a used bookstore in town. I begged my mom to drop me off all the time. They had a loose stack of comics that I used to thumb through searching for secret gold. One day, I came across Daredevil 189. That's that Frank Miller cover that's iconic with DD flying through the air and a hail of arrows.

[00:00:28] The book was a complete snobber knocker throwdown with the hand and Sticks sacrifices himself to save Matt at the end. Ever since that moment, I have loved martial arts comic books.

[00:00:38] So when fellow Yeti Alex Green reached out about his Kickstarter project From Within, I was excited to find out more about it.

[00:00:44] It's a 240 page martial arts revenge graphic novel about a slave fighting his way through a deadly tournament where the rules shift according to the whims of, you guessed it, a tyrannical emperor.

[00:00:55] Full of high impact fight sequences, it's sure to delight any fan of action focused fiction.

[00:01:00] Artist Renzo Podesta kills the genre. See what I did there? And the whole project is already complete.

[00:01:06] So the hardest part, the one that makes you wait is already done.

[00:01:09] Bounce on over to Kickstarter and search for From Within.

[00:01:12] I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. Make sure to check it out.

[00:01:19] Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again.

[00:01:22] Again, I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media.

[00:01:29] My bad.

[00:01:30] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know, and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing.

[00:01:37] Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps?

[00:01:40] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together, so I guess, question mark?

[00:01:45] It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge. If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive.

[00:01:54] Allowing you to build, play, and export animated maps, including in-person Fog of War capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture.

[00:02:07] Now I'm set to easily build high-res animated maps, saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign.

[00:02:14] That's a win every day in my book.

[00:02:16] Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off.

[00:02:23] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you.

[00:02:24] And big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show.

[00:02:27] I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:02:32] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner.

[00:02:36] I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I have with me a writer of many wonderful comic books.

[00:02:42] I had the pleasure of meeting him in Baltimore Comic Con just a few weeks ago, and now he's here on the podcast.

[00:02:50] And we are going to talk about some wonderful comics I just read, Navigating With You,

[00:02:58] which has come out fairly recently.

[00:03:00] It is a wonderful story.

[00:03:02] I can't wait for you to hear all about it, but please welcome to the podcast, Jeremy Whitley.

[00:03:06] Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on tonight.

[00:03:09] Oh, thank you for having me.

[00:03:11] I'm glad to be here.

[00:03:11] Yeah.

[00:03:12] So I think I, I think I first became aware of you and some of your work and our listeners.

[00:03:21] It's probably the same, I think was either on Prince-less or the unstoppable wasp when that came out.

[00:03:28] Plus, I have two daughters, folks that listen to the podcast know Charlotte and Penny love comics as well.

[00:03:36] And we've read our fair share of My Little Pony comics of which you've had a chance to write some of those.

[00:03:43] Yeah, quite a few.

[00:03:45] Thank you.

[00:03:46] And yeah, I when you were down at Baltimore, navigating with you, I think that's that came out under the Maverick imprint through Mad Cave Studios.

[00:03:57] And you have a number of things that I hope we get to to talk about just for our listeners.

[00:04:02] There is the dog night, the cold ever after a school for extraterrestrial girls, which I believe is there's at least two volumes out now.

[00:04:10] Yeah.

[00:04:11] And so just some fascinating stuff.

[00:04:14] But I kind of want to talk with I kind of want to start with navigating with you, which is, I guess, the most recent thing that has come out, I think.

[00:04:21] And that I just read.

[00:04:23] I absolutely loved it.

[00:04:25] I mean, I know it's kind of geared towards a much younger audience and I am 45 years old, but I I just thought that the characters were amazing.

[00:04:33] I love the artwork.

[00:04:34] It is a story that has a mix of what I guess we would call Western comics and manga because the two characters in it are kind of having their own book club to read this manga series that they started but never finished and have bonded over.

[00:04:51] And so some of the scenes from what it is they're actually reading, which I believe is the navigator Nozomi.

[00:05:02] I thought it was wonderful.

[00:05:04] I became totally lost in this world and the two of them and their relationship.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:13] But just tell the listeners a little bit about, you know, what it's about.

[00:05:17] Yeah, it's sort of a slice of life romance.

[00:05:21] It takes place in my hometown where I live in Durham, North Carolina.

[00:05:25] It's about two kids who are moving from different parts of the country for various reasons.

[00:05:31] Their lives are just sort of like up in the air.

[00:05:34] Nisha is coming from New York.

[00:05:36] Her parents are recently divorced and she's she's moved with her mom down to North Carolina.

[00:05:41] And we also have Gabby, who is from Florida, who is moved up with her her dad and her brothers because there's recently been, you know, a hurricane in Florida that is wiped out their houses as well as a lot of other aspects of their lives.

[00:06:00] So, you know, her her dad's company is sort of relocated them there temporarily.

[00:06:04] So they're both new kids in school that are sort of, you know, just sort of thrown into being fish out of water.

[00:06:13] And they they bond over their shared love of this manga that they were both into when they were in middle school.

[00:06:20] They're both in high school now.

[00:06:22] They're juniors.

[00:06:24] So they sort of realized they were both into this, but neither of them have ever finished it.

[00:06:29] And it turns out that it's out of print.

[00:06:31] So it's kind of hard to get as you know, anybody who who has followed like a lot of obscure manga through the 90s and 2000s will I'm sure relate to.

[00:06:43] And so they decide to sort of go on this quest to find all the volumes of it together and and read the book.

[00:06:50] And over the course of the story, become best friends and then more than friends, you know, as as the adventures go on.

[00:06:57] Yeah.

[00:06:59] One of the things that I really liked because it initially starts out, I think, from Nisha's perspective and there, you know, meet cute, if you will.

[00:07:10] Um, Nisha is set on not making friends, not meeting anybody.

[00:07:16] She's kind of like at a new school.

[00:07:18] She wants to figure things out.

[00:07:19] But she is, you know, I think the blurb on the back of the book talks about her like being a bit of an activist.

[00:07:27] And she is very outspoken.

[00:07:32] Um, but it's just interesting how we see Gabby kind of slowly win her over.

[00:07:40] And I just, I kind of love that dynamic, um, where Nisha was kind of set on not meeting anybody, but at a point allows herself to be open to it.

[00:07:53] And I, I just felt for, um, I, I don't, I feel like you don't see, you know, that a lot in terms of how, you know, it's, it's portrayed.

[00:08:02] Um, it, we've certainly seen things where, you know, somebody doesn't want to be involved or friends with somebody else.

[00:08:09] But I just thought in this type of setting with, with, you usually have somebody who's already been established.

[00:08:14] You have really two new characters at this school.

[00:08:17] And, um, I just, I, I, I, I thought it was just very, you know, well done.

[00:08:22] And, and, you know, it, it also, um, doesn't hurt that, that Casio Ribeiro, um, doing the artwork, uh, it just really breathes such life into both Nisha and Gabby.

[00:08:37] Oh yeah.

[00:08:38] I, I think both of them are very endearing, especially through, through Casio's artwork.

[00:08:42] And I think in a lot of ways, their, their dynamic is a lot like my, my own was with my wife when we were, you know, sort of just getting together and that I'm sort of the introverted guy.

[00:08:55] Who's, you know, I've, I've got things to do.

[00:08:58] I'm focusing on that.

[00:08:59] I don't really, didn't really want to be in a relationship.

[00:09:01] Um, you know, it was trying to avoid further, you know, complications and things like that.

[00:09:06] Whereas my wife was just sort of, uh, determined to win me over.

[00:09:11] She's much more talkative, much more friendly in the way that, uh, Gabby is in this story.

[00:09:16] And, uh, it's, I don't know, it's a dynamic, I think that comes naturally to me in this.

[00:09:22] Um, and I, I think it's, it's a fun thing because I think Nisha is doing a pretty good job of like avoiding becoming friends.

[00:09:32] Uh, but you know, at the point that like, she feels like Gabby is being, uh, you know, sort of discriminated against by the principal who's giving her a hard time about her, her clothes.

[00:09:46] Um, she just can't, she can't help herself.

[00:09:49] Right. Like she, uh, can't sit around and just, you know, listen to this, this, this girl being given a hard time, even if she doesn't particularly like her, want to be friends with her.

[00:09:59] Uh, she's, she's got to do something about it.

[00:10:01] And, uh, you know, that sort of introduces this, this way in which the, the two of them become linked and, and end up in the same classes and everything because of, of this whole conversation.

[00:10:13] Yeah. Yeah. Um, also I, I, I thought it was funny having family from Florida, the idea of somebody from Florida coming up even to like North Carolina and not thinking anything of like the, the, the board shorts and, and tank top in terms of like, what would be what, what North Carolina would think is appropriate dress.

[00:10:32] And Nisha not hesitating to kind of like, you know, stand up for, uh, a fellow student, if, if nothing else against the administration, I thought was, um, it's a good way to kind of in, in, you know, you're seeing things from Nisha's perspective, but kind of endear Gabby to both Nisha and, uh, and the reader.

[00:10:54] Yeah, I, I think so. And I mean the, that whole, uh, the whole dress code conversation there is, is based very much on the high school where I went to, where they were very, like, they were very touchy specifically about girls and dress code.

[00:11:09] And pretty much never had anything to say about guys dress code in high school. Uh, you know, as long as you weren't, uh, running around naked, they didn't really care what the guys wore, but the girls, they had to be very concerned about whether or not they were distracting the guys.

[00:11:24] Right.

[00:11:25] Who, you know, could not have been more distracted themselves if they had tried, you know, it doesn't, I feel like it doesn't take much to, uh, get a teenage boy's imagination started.

[00:11:36] Um, and it's not, I think up to girls to, uh, have to control that. But yeah, I think it's, it's, it's really interesting for me because my, my daughter goes to school here in Durham and her, uh, her school has next to no dress code policy.

[00:11:50] Um, and it's, uh, it's always kind of fascinating to me to see the stuff that, uh, not just like wouldn't have been allowed at my school, but that like parents I knew as a kid wouldn't have let their kids outside in.

[00:12:03] Um, but yeah, it's, uh, I don't know. It's, it's interesting sort of revisiting all that as a, as a parent, um, having lived through the, the severe era of it.

[00:12:16] Oh, I'm sure. Um, do you find it's, uh, is it easy for you to kind of get into that like headspace? Like you've written so many, whether or not it's like unstoppable loss or princeless.

[00:12:28] And the, the books that you're doing now school for extraterrestrial girls. I mean, so I, I would think with, you know, these books that you've written, it would be, you know, either easy for you or you, you know, you've been successful at it, that you have an understanding of kind of writing in like a younger voice.

[00:12:48] Do you still find it's difficult to do that? Do you, you know, um, have concerns of like authenticity at all when you're to, to kind of write for towards a younger audience?

[00:13:03] Um, I'm always, I'm always concerned. I always want to make sure I'm, I'm doing it well. Um, I do a lot of listening, not just to, you know, my, my own kids, but to, um, other folks. I'm a, like I said, I'm, I'm somewhat introverted myself. So I tend to like, listen to people talk and pay attention to how they talk.

[00:13:23] Um, and that generally, that tends to be what, uh, directs a lot of the way I write people is I, I sort of like spend a lot of time figuring out this initial stuff about who they are and what they sound like and what they care about and, and really get that voice locked in.

[00:13:40] And, and then, you know, once, once you've got all that figured out, it's a lot of times it's easy to just, at least for me to stick with that voice and, um, carry it through to know what, you know, really matters to them, what they sound like.

[00:13:55] Um, cause I think once you, once you get into a voice, especially if you're just writing like one project to end to end and you're not switching back and forth between things.

[00:14:05] Um, I think it's, it's a lot of times pretty easy to sort of hold onto that voice and, um, really get a feeling for it.

[00:14:13] As long as you're doing stuff that's, you know, either comics or, uh, pros that's in first person, I think getting that voice down is, is a good chunk of the battle.

[00:14:22] And then making sure that you know what you're talking about when it comes to things that are important to them, you know, whether it means talking to people and doing research.

[00:14:31] I mean, you know, in the case of Nisha, uh, you know, her disability, she has CP is, is very important to me to get that right.

[00:14:38] And, um, you know, we had authenticity readers for that to make sure that, uh, you know, as, as much as, as much as you research and as much as you try to get things right, there's always going to be things that, uh, you know, there's, there's no documentation for what it's like day to day for people.

[00:14:55] You just have to, um, you know, have somebody that can look at it and say, well, what you're not thinking about is this, because, you know, I think a lot of, especially when you're talking about race or disability, there's hundreds of things on any given day that, um, you know, are, are microaggressions or affect people in some way that, uh, if, if you haven't lived it, you have no reason to think about it.

[00:15:19] Yeah, no, I, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I, um, uh, my, my brother, Bobby, uh, who I usually shout out on the podcast. He's our, he's the Crypto Creator Corner's number one most dedicated fan because he listens to all my episodes.

[00:15:33] Uh, he was with, with me at Baltimore and I, I don't, I don't think I'll have an issue with, with me saying this, I guess I'll ask him about it. If he does, I guess I'll cut it. But, um, Bobby's got four kids. He is his daughter, Autumn just turned 13 yesterday and he is identical triplet boys.

[00:15:48] And, uh, one of the boys, Cooper has cerebral palsy and, um, uh, he, in a wheelchair, um, not as, as, uh, I mean, uh, Nisha has braces, but is able to kind of get around and Cooper's mostly nonverbal.

[00:16:05] Um, uh, as community, as technology gets better, he's able to communicate more. Um, and, uh, Cooper's the best. Um, and, um, I, I just bring that up because I, I, I, having Cooper in our, our, our lives, you know, as my nephew, um, I was, I'm kind of surprised as to how much I'd be affected by reading a character, you know, that has cerebral palsy.

[00:16:32] And, um, cerebral palsy, if anyone, listeners that, that don't know, and I, I really don't know, you know, too much about it other than seeing Cooper, but there, the, um, the way it can affect a person can, can be very different.

[00:16:47] You could have somebody who has cerebral palsy and is still able to communicate verbally, uh, still able to walk, although there might be some issues and limitations in terms of their ability to get around, or it can be where someone is nonverbal, uh, not able to walk, not able to stand.

[00:17:00] Um, uh, but yeah, there's, there's quite a bit of variation in it, which is, it's something I learned, you know, researching it, doing it and that there is, you know, lots of cases where it is something that just, just affects somebody's legs or it affects one side of the body and not the other.

[00:17:16] Um, and there are, you know, different levels of severity as to whether somebody will need braces or need a wheelchair.

[00:17:22] And, you know, and in some cases I think, and it was important.

[00:17:25] And this one to me to, to show that, you know, for some people there's a variety of ways in which they, they interact with, you know, different, different devices, different things that can help them get through the world.

[00:17:37] Whether, you know, sometimes it's great to have braces and sometimes if you're doing a lot of walking, you know, it's, it's nice to be able to have a wheelchair or crutches.

[00:17:46] And, and it kind of comes, becomes with, with Nisha and Gabby, a very interesting, a very kind of important plot point.

[00:17:52] But I bring that up because I was also surprised how much it affected me reading this, knowing that, you know, read a character like Nisha that has cerebral palsy and thinking a lot about Cooper and thinking about how, I just hadn't had that experience where I read something like this that, um, you know, really, I, I don't see a lot of in, you know,

[00:18:22] in fiction, whether or not it's a movie or a TV show or, or, uh, a comic book.

[00:18:27] Um, I, I don't know.

[00:18:30] It just, um, really affected me.

[00:18:32] And I, I thought it was done.

[00:18:34] I thought Nisha's character and how it was handled, uh, um, was, was done very well.

[00:18:41] So I just wanted to, I don't know.

[00:18:43] I just wanted to bring that up.

[00:18:44] I wanted to tell you that.

[00:18:45] Well, thank you.

[00:18:47] Yeah.

[00:18:47] It was, it was really important to me.

[00:18:49] I think part of why, part of the inspiration behind Nisha for people who've read Unstoppable Wasp is that, you know, we created a character in that story in Taina Miranda, who had CP, but was a supporting character in the cast.

[00:19:03] And, like, we really did some, some fun and interesting stuff with her.

[00:19:07] And, uh, you know, I, I met, uh, a reader who was a big fan, um, Wade Reed, who also has CP, um, who, you know, volunteered to sort of like give us some notes to, to read and give feedback on, on Wasp with her.

[00:19:23] And, uh, if it were up to me, you know, not only would I still be writing more Wasp stuff, but Taina would have her own book.

[00:19:31] All the, all the girls would be off doing their own thing.

[00:19:34] Um, but of course there's only so much like room for, for spinoffs for minor characters from, you know, books that are, uh, not doing huge numbers in the first place.

[00:19:45] Um, so, you know, there, we didn't end up having too much work for Quaid on that one.

[00:19:50] But when this opportunity came up to do, uh, a romance story, um, I thought, you know, it was so, it was so unusual.

[00:19:59] And so many people commented on having disability in, in Wasp that, um, you know, the, the idea of, of having a central character in a story who has this disability, that it's just a big part of who they are.

[00:20:15] Um, that it's not about a character becoming disabled or struggling with disability, but it is a romance story that centers a character who's disabled.

[00:20:23] Seemed, uh, especially unusual to me and, and like something that I felt like we needed.

[00:20:29] Um, and, you know, it was a great opportunity to get to work with Quaid again, because, you know, we, we got to have, uh, you know, Mad Cave was more than happy to have authenticity readers looking at this and giving us notes and making sure that, uh, you know, our, our handling of CP was everything that, uh, that readers would want it to be.

[00:20:49] Yeah.

[00:20:50] I, um, I just, uh, it just meant a lot to me.

[00:20:53] I guess I'll, I'll say that it's hard to articulate exactly, but, um, yeah, I thought it was very well done.

[00:21:00] I love seeing a character like Nisha.

[00:21:02] Um, and, uh, yeah, I, the story between the two of them, it was just really wonderful.

[00:21:08] Um, what was the decision like, or the process to actually show the, you know, and kind of tie in some of the scenes from the, from, uh, Navigator Nozomi?

[00:21:21] Well, it's interesting because I had, I had wanted to do it from the very beginning.

[00:21:25] It was like when we were sort of hatching the idea of having this manga that they're reading.

[00:21:31] Um, that's always a thing for me in, in movies and TV shows and stuff.

[00:21:35] When there's a piece of media that's important to the characters, I always like to like see it, right?

[00:21:41] Like you want to, if people are telling you that something is the best, uh, song that's ever been written, that everybody just loves it.

[00:21:48] You want to be able to hear that.

[00:21:49] You want it to like live up to that expectation.

[00:21:51] Um, and in this case, like, I think we had something very specific in mind and that it's like a 90s imported manga that, you know, it's a, like so many of those, it's a little weird.

[00:22:03] There's some aspects of it that like, there's no real explanation for like the fact that the, uh, their spacecraft look like, you know, steam powered, uh, engines and stuff like that.

[00:22:14] Yeah.

[00:22:15] Yeah.

[00:22:16] That, you know, we, we wanted it to be, to have sort of that feeling to be a little extra inky in there.

[00:22:22] And as we were doing it, it seemed to make sense to like tie it into, uh, what was going on in, in their own story and to make these sort of, these things sort of run parallel and in ways that would help them, you know, figure out some of the stuff that they were feeling in their own lives.

[00:22:39] Especially, you know, Gabby towards the end, I think is very, um, her feelings on some of the characters in the book very much inform how she is dealing with people in real life.

[00:22:50] Um, which I think is, is, you know, true for a lot of people when they, uh, enjoy media, when there's something that's very important to them.

[00:22:58] So it was, you know, we wanted to sort of like splash it in there in a way that sort of marked time in the story.

[00:23:04] And because, you know, getting the books was a big part of the story, I think it felt naturally that like we would have basically, you know, per chapter, we'd have a bit of this story sort of dropped in there as well.

[00:23:17] Um, so yeah, I, I think, you know, we just sort of spiced it in there where it made sense to have it, where characters were reading it.

[00:23:25] Um, and it was just, I think ultimately the original draft of, of this, uh, graphic novel, uh, the script was almost 300 pages.

[00:23:36] And that was like, yeah, Mad Cave was like, no, that's too many.

[00:23:40] We said 200.

[00:23:42] Um, and so, uh, Lauren and I, Lauren, my editor, and I went back and forth with, you know, trying to bring it down, especially the,

[00:23:51] the manga sections we cut down to just as, as get as much punch as we could in the little, you know, time you had.

[00:23:59] Um, so, you know, we're like, what events do we absolutely have to have in here?

[00:24:03] How long does it absolutely have to be?

[00:24:05] Because we want to make sure we're spending as much time with our characters as possible.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09] We're still like getting the feel of this, this manga.

[00:24:12] Um, so it was just like boiling down and boiling down and boiling down until we had just, uh, as,

[00:24:20] as punchy as the bits could possibly be and, and inform the story going on around them.

[00:24:24] So yeah, I mean, most of those are like in the four to six page range.

[00:24:29] You, you get very small chunks of the book, uh, which people have suggested that, uh, we should,

[00:24:35] we should actually make the manga, which I, I think like, because we have so little of it in there,

[00:24:40] we feasibly could, but, um, that, that would be a whole nother thing.

[00:24:45] I think this book would have to be at a, at a, um, at a very high success level to,

[00:24:50] to validate making a, uh, fictional manga from the universe, a real thing.

[00:24:55] Yeah.

[00:24:55] I, I, I, I really enjoyed it.

[00:24:57] I mean, I've said on before on this podcast that I like have a big, you know, manga sized

[00:25:02] hole in my comics reading knowledge.

[00:25:04] Um, but I, I really, I really liked it.

[00:25:08] I mean, it looked, you know, it looked authentic to me, like, and I just loved how the, I loved

[00:25:13] how, as you mentioned, I loved how the manga kind of informed the story and I loved how,

[00:25:18] you know, uh, um, uh, Nisha and, and Gabby are doing this as like a book club.

[00:25:25] And it, it really felt like that, like they're going on, uh, they have a little bit of a contest

[00:25:30] to try and figure out like who can find the next book in the series.

[00:25:36] Um, but also there are the little bits of them like talking about it.

[00:25:41] And like, you know, as you said, you kind of see Gabby like opinion kind of like turn

[00:25:46] about some of the characters as they discuss it and as it goes on.

[00:25:50] And it, it feels, you know, it lends that sense of like, like authenticity to it.

[00:25:55] And it, it, it really feels, it really, um, I guess it helps lend weight that the manga

[00:26:03] is kind of really crucial to the story.

[00:26:06] It's not just, you know, we're not just doing a bit cause we want to have some manga in this

[00:26:12] book.

[00:26:12] Like it, it really feels key to like some of these things and the kind of figuring out

[00:26:17] the relationship with Nisha and Gabby.

[00:26:19] Well, it was just, it, it, it all works that way, you know?

[00:26:23] Yeah.

[00:26:24] Thank you.

[00:26:24] I'm so glad that it, it, it does because that was a, a big concern coming in there is,

[00:26:29] you know, how to best integrate these things into the story because I knew that we wanted

[00:26:34] to.

[00:26:34] And I, you know, I think early on we were not sure whether we'd be able to do it with

[00:26:39] the same artist or whether we need to have an additional artist doing the manga section.

[00:26:44] But, uh, Casio greatly to his credit does both and they, they're completely different styles.

[00:26:50] They don't, uh, they don't feel like they don't belong in the same book, but you know, there's

[00:26:55] never a question of, of what you're reading.

[00:26:57] And, um, the manga feels very much, I think like a very inky nineties black and white manga.

[00:27:04] Um, and then, you know, you, you get back to the story and, uh, it feels very much like a,

[00:27:10] you know, current time slice of life story.

[00:27:13] So, uh, yeah, he does an amazing job.

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:16] I was actually going to ask if it, cause I wasn't sure.

[00:27:19] I just couldn't recall from looking at the credits page in the book, if there was another

[00:27:23] artist, because it feels like it could be.

[00:27:25] Um, but, but it, it really does work.

[00:27:29] Like you do get like just enough of this little story to understand like what's going on with

[00:27:33] navigating, navigating and like what's going on with like the race that they're involved

[00:27:38] in.

[00:27:38] And, um, yeah, it, it looks like it could be, you know, it's very impressive that, you know,

[00:27:44] uh, Casio did all of that.

[00:27:47] Yeah.

[00:27:48] I, I was super impressed and, and Lauren found Casio for, for the work and, uh, you know,

[00:27:55] like, well, you know, we'll do some sample pages.

[00:27:57] We'll see if, uh, if he works for both styles and if not, you know, we can always find another

[00:28:01] artist and, uh, to, to Casio's credit, he just blew it away.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:06] I, I, I thought it was great.

[00:28:08] Um, so yeah, love, absolutely love navigating with you.

[00:28:12] I think it was out of all the stuff I read last weekend and, you know, don't tell anybody

[00:28:15] else.

[00:28:16] Uh, just between us.

[00:28:17] I think it was probably my favorite thing that I picked up at Baltimore.

[00:28:21] I just, yeah, absolutely loved it.

[00:28:23] All right.

[00:28:24] Let's take a quick break.

[00:28:33] After a string of unexplained disappearances in the Southern parts of the United States,

[00:28:38] retired detective Clint searches for his white trash brother.

[00:28:41] While searching for him, he ends up being abducted by aliens.

[00:28:45] He is now in the arena for big guns, stupid rednecks, an intergalactic cable's newest hit show,

[00:28:52] which puts him and other humans in laser gun gladiatorial combat.

[00:28:56] And his brother is the reigning champion with 27 kills.

[00:29:00] That's the premise for a new book from Banda Barnes, big guns, stupid rednecks.

[00:29:05] I got a chance to see an advanced preview of this book and being from the South, honestly,

[00:29:10] I was a bit skeptical going in, but they won me over and nothing is more powerful than

[00:29:14] an initially skeptic convert in my book.

[00:29:17] In Jimmy's words, big guns, stupid rednecks is many things, but it isn't subtle.

[00:29:21] It tells you exactly what it is up front.

[00:29:23] Then it delivers with a great premise, fantastic art, and a whole mess of fun.

[00:29:27] I had a great time reading big guns, stupid rednecks,

[00:29:30] and what I thought was going to be an indictment of redneck culture quickly showed it was actually

[00:29:35] a love letter, a family mystery, brother pitted against brother, aliens, fighting for profit

[00:29:40] in a big arena.

[00:29:41] This truly has it all.

[00:29:43] Issue one is out already, but you can still pick up a copy on the Band of Bards website

[00:29:47] and current issues are available via your previews or lunar order form, or just ask your LCS.

[00:29:52] Don't miss it.

[00:29:53] Let's get back to the show.

[00:29:54] I want to talk about some of the other stuff that you have that's out now that readers

[00:29:59] can pick up.

[00:30:01] And I guess the next thing that I wanted to talk about, The Dog Night, written by you,

[00:30:09] art and letters by Bray Indigo, colors by Melissa Capriglione, who Melissa's been on the podcast

[00:30:15] before.

[00:30:16] And actually, the very first thing that I ever had published was a four-page story with

[00:30:22] Beck Kubrick in By Visibility.

[00:30:24] And Melissa did the cover for that, which I probably have a copy of it over here to left

[00:30:29] on my shelf.

[00:30:30] But I love Melissa's work.

[00:30:31] So you can tell listeners about The Dog Night, which I thought, again, I mean, so much fun.

[00:30:39] What a great kind of dog-friendly story.

[00:30:45] And if I've read the dedication correctly, are you allergic?

[00:30:50] I am moderately allergic to dogs.

[00:30:55] We have a dog who Ace is our dog, and he is...

[00:31:02] I am sometimes allergic to him.

[00:31:04] Most of the time, I'm fine just because I'm around him enough that it's not a problem.

[00:31:08] But a lot of small dogs and very hairy dogs.

[00:31:12] Yeah, I'm allergic.

[00:31:14] But much more so allergic to cats, honestly.

[00:31:18] Okay.

[00:31:18] Which is something my parents have always had.

[00:31:21] So I didn't realize just how allergic I was to cats until I moved out and went to college.

[00:31:26] And then I came back and was like, oh, it's terrible, actually.

[00:31:32] That's too bad for your parents and their cats or cat.

[00:31:39] So The Dog Night.

[00:31:42] Your main character is Frankie.

[00:31:45] Frankie, they are trying to figure out their identity.

[00:31:49] And they're trying to figure out who they are.

[00:31:53] And amidst all of that, Frankie meets a dog, I think at the mall.

[00:32:00] Ends up kind of saving their mom.

[00:32:03] And this leads Frankie on an adventure to...

[00:32:11] I kept feeling like it was a Grant Morrison-esque something that exists in the bleed space.

[00:32:19] You know, like something from the multiverse where Frankie goes on a quest to accomplish these different tasks.

[00:32:28] And I just like...

[00:32:29] It was so much fun.

[00:32:30] Loved all the dog artwork.

[00:32:33] All the different tests that Frankie had to go through.

[00:32:36] Kind of tell me, how did The Dog Night come about?

[00:32:40] It really started from just the concept of like...

[00:32:45] Dogs are good.

[00:32:46] But, like, I feel like, for the most part...

[00:32:51] And I feel like it's a difficult thing to argue with.

[00:32:53] Dogs are sort of an absolute good.

[00:32:56] I have always felt like dogs care.

[00:33:00] They don't judge you.

[00:33:02] They always just want to be there and take care of you.

[00:33:07] And my dog is the same way.

[00:33:10] If people are down, he's not a particularly outgoing dog.

[00:33:13] But he will just sort of come lay near you and let you pet him.

[00:33:17] That's sort of the extent of his...

[00:33:20] His interacting with people.

[00:33:22] But I was like...

[00:33:23] Yeah, I like the idea of like...

[00:33:26] Dogs are very sort of absolute good in this world that's trying to protect the world from chaos.

[00:33:33] But there are things that dogs can't do.

[00:33:36] Like open doors.

[00:33:37] Turn, you know...

[00:33:38] Turn doorknobs.

[00:33:39] There's some stuff that's just out of the scope of what they're capable of.

[00:33:43] So they need a human representative in the world.

[00:33:46] Somebody who is...

[00:33:49] Everything that dogs care about.

[00:33:51] You know, who has these core dog values.

[00:33:56] Right.

[00:33:56] So there's this group of magical dogs called the Pothion who represent these values.

[00:34:04] Great name.

[00:34:05] Thank you.

[00:34:06] And yeah, they need to find a dog knight to help them.

[00:34:12] So they need a human that represents all these things that dogs care about.

[00:34:16] Their kindness and justice and sense of smell and all these things that, you know, are important to dogs.

[00:34:24] And so they...

[00:34:25] Frankie sort of stumbles into meeting the Platinum Retriever who is...

[00:34:30] You know, it's better than a Golden Retriever.

[00:34:32] Right.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:34] So, you know, Platinum sort of pulls them into this...

[00:34:40] This dog house that's between worlds where the Pothion meets.

[00:34:43] And sort of like has recommended them for becoming the dog knight.

[00:34:49] Because Platinum represents a sense of smell.

[00:34:54] He can find anything anywhere.

[00:34:56] And he thinks that Frankie's got the goods to become the dog knight.

[00:35:00] So pulls them into this.

[00:35:02] And the book is about sort of them going through these tests to prove that they are the dog knight.

[00:35:09] Right.

[00:35:10] But it ties very much in with their identity as being non-binary.

[00:35:13] And sort of the...

[00:35:15] It's not really a coming out story for them.

[00:35:17] They've established that.

[00:35:18] But they're trying to figure out where their place is in the world now.

[00:35:22] And how they can deal both with the relationships that are important to them.

[00:35:28] That have survived very well through their coming out.

[00:35:31] Like the relationship with their mom, who's super supportive.

[00:35:35] But also like how to deal with things that have had more fallout.

[00:35:39] Like their relationship with their former best friend Dallas.

[00:35:41] Who has kind of not done such a good job of being accepting of who Frankie is.

[00:35:48] Yeah.

[00:35:49] I mean, a couple of things right off the bat.

[00:35:51] That early on, mom makes a joke where she refers to Dallas as Houston.

[00:35:58] Which I thought...

[00:35:59] I mean, I don't know if mom did it intentionally.

[00:36:01] But it's a good joke in the book that mom calls Dallas Houston.

[00:36:06] I thought was funny.

[00:36:08] And also, I really like...

[00:36:11] Because I think we've seen this story before.

[00:36:13] Where with a young person trying to figure out their identity.

[00:36:21] And we've seen parents that are not supportive.

[00:36:23] We've seen parents that are, but are maybe still trying to figure it out.

[00:36:27] I really like that mom...

[00:36:29] Frankie's mom was super supportive, as you just said.

[00:36:33] But the thing was that Frankie wasn't really sure at times what felt good to them.

[00:36:41] You know, because your opening is Frankie's looking for a new outfit.

[00:36:47] And isn't really sure what fits them the best.

[00:36:53] You know, not in terms of actual size.

[00:36:55] But when they look in the mirror, they want to see...

[00:36:58] Oh, that's it. That's me.

[00:37:02] You know, and I really like that aspect of the story.

[00:37:06] That Frankie was still trying to figure things out.

[00:37:09] But yeah, so much of the book.

[00:37:10] Like all the dog stuff is great.

[00:37:11] So much in the book is really like...

[00:37:14] What happened to the friendship with Frankie and Dallas.

[00:37:19] And I just...

[00:37:20] I thought, again, I thought it was handled very well.

[00:37:24] Really enjoyed that aspect of it.

[00:37:27] I thought it felt kind of, you know, pretty authentic.

[00:37:30] Again, it's just...

[00:37:32] I really like that.

[00:37:33] Was that kind of tough, again, tough to get right?

[00:37:35] Or how did you kind of, you know, maneuver through that?

[00:37:41] It was an interesting one to navigate.

[00:37:43] I think, you know, we had some readers on this through the press.

[00:37:50] But also, you know, my artist, Brie, is also non-binary as well.

[00:37:56] So it was nice to have them there to sort of catch things, give suggestions, give ideas of how we can carry things through in this story.

[00:38:06] And make Frankie feel authentic to, you know, their lived experience as well.

[00:38:13] Because, yeah, it's, I think, important to show, like, Frankie has this very supportive mom who is on top of things.

[00:38:21] But that doesn't mean everything automatically falls into place.

[00:38:25] And, you know, that initial conversation and sort of this thing that leads through most of the book of, like, it's a relatively small problem in that they need an outfit for their band concert.

[00:38:40] And as it often is the case with, you know, band concerts, there's the stuff that the boys are supposed to wear and the stuff that the girls are supposed to wear.

[00:38:47] And, you know, Frankie is trying to figure out where they fit in this.

[00:38:52] And they run into sort of the problem that a lot of friends I know who are non-binary or trans deal with.

[00:38:59] Which is, like, even if you're, even if you know your gender, it doesn't necessarily mean that clothes that are supposedly made for that gender are going to fit you right.

[00:39:11] Or going to be cut for somebody who is trans or non-binary who, you know, has a differently shaped body than what is regularly available on the shelves.

[00:39:21] Yeah.

[00:39:21] So, you know, it's sort of an interesting issue of Frankie not just sort of figuring out who they are, but figuring out how to be in the world the person that they know themselves to be.

[00:39:35] Yeah.

[00:39:35] I mean, I feel like there's so, you know, so much conversation, especially with friends of mine.

[00:39:41] And a lot of us have kids that are around, you know, the same age.

[00:39:44] Mine are, Charlotte will be 12 and Penny's 7.

[00:39:49] And kids that are around the same age.

[00:39:52] And there's, you know, so much talk about having to, you know, amongst parents how to navigate different things as a parent or navigate, you know, your kids' choices.

[00:40:05] But also, you know, how your, you know, your, who your kids are.

[00:40:09] Like, so many things that, like, aren't a choice.

[00:40:11] This is, you know, how your children are in the world.

[00:40:15] And when you don't have a familiarity with that experience, trying to help guide your kids, you know, through that.

[00:40:23] And sometimes when your, your kids are still kind of figuring it out and being able to give your kids the space to kind of let them be who they want to be and what feels authentic to them.

[00:40:36] You know, it was interesting to see mom be supportive and Frankie still trying to figure out what is going to make.

[00:40:43] I think, I think it's presented and it's presented in such a beautiful way early on in the book where I guess mom sees Frankie and gasps.

[00:40:52] And, you know, it's done with the sound effect.

[00:40:54] And Frankie's like, I want to, I want to look and I want to gasp, you know?

[00:40:58] And like, what a, what a beautiful way to kind of portray that moment perfectly captures like what Frankie's dealing with.

[00:41:08] Even if you're not someone who struggled with like your, your gender identity, you, you get in that moment what, what, what Frankie means.

[00:41:17] I think, you know?

[00:41:19] Yeah, I think you get what Frankie means.

[00:41:22] And I think as a parent, that moment rings especially true for me because I think it's hard not to sympathize as a parent with, with Diane, Frankie's mother, just because like you, you know, as hard as you may try to, you want to be supportive of your kid to want what they want to, to let them explore.

[00:41:41] Or, you know, part of being a parent is, is necessarily getting invested in your kid and like really caring about, you know, these futures you see for them and wanting things to go well and wanting them to have everything, you know, you could possibly give them.

[00:41:59] And, you know, seeing them sort of shift and change who they are and having to, you know, live with saying goodbye to those, those versions of your kid that you had gotten attached to or that you, you thought you saw in their future.

[00:42:14] And, you know, you know, continue to sort of like adjust with them and be supportive of who they are.

[00:42:20] Cause you can't, I think it's, it's an essential part of, of being a parent to like be invested in your kid's future, but it's ultimately their future.

[00:42:29] And sometimes you just got to like, let go of the things that you, you thought you saw there and then let them find it for themselves.

[00:42:36] Yeah.

[00:42:37] Now I, I, I, I couldn't agree more.

[00:42:38] I mean, I, I, I, I do tell my kids they, they can, they can be whatever it is they want.

[00:42:46] What, what, what, what, and I, I mean that from the level of their identity to as an occupation, they just, they just can't be a lawyer like me.

[00:42:56] It's way too stressful.

[00:42:58] See here it's, it's a, they can be whatever they want.

[00:43:01] They're just not allowed to be a Duke fan.

[00:43:03] So.

[00:43:03] Oh, okay.

[00:43:04] Well, we, we hold onto something as parents.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:09] It's the important things, you know?

[00:43:11] Absolutely.

[00:43:12] Absolutely.

[00:43:15] Well, and so, well, I guess we'll, we can, we keep moving on the list.

[00:43:19] There's so much to talk about.

[00:43:23] The, the other, I guess the next one in line that I think came out earlier this year,

[00:43:29] the cold ever after illustrated written by you illustrated by Megan Huang.

[00:43:34] Uh, I, I love Megan's work.

[00:43:37] Um, and yeah, the description of this game of Thrones meets Chinatown, which I read, I think

[00:43:44] that's on the, on, on one of the websites, but this was from Titan comics.

[00:43:49] Um, I, I, you know, for fans of epic fantasy, queer romance and hard boiled detective noir,

[00:43:56] uh, just the, from reading that initially, you know, before I checked it out and I didn't

[00:44:00] get to read all of it, but I want to go back and do that.

[00:44:03] Um, I thought, how do those things really come together?

[00:44:06] But like, what a, what a wonderfully interesting, diverse mashup.

[00:44:11] And Megan's work is just gorgeous in this book.

[00:44:16] Oh, absolutely.

[00:44:17] And I, it started as like, I, I was, it started just as sort of this exercise of like, what

[00:44:24] are two things that, two types of stories that I love that I haven't seen together?

[00:44:30] And, you know, getting like this, this fantasy and noir elements together, uh, was, well,

[00:44:37] that was immediately a thing that I was, I was drawn to.

[00:44:39] I was like, how, how can we make those things work?

[00:44:42] And I think in order to make the noir stuff work really well, it has to be aimed more towards

[00:44:47] that, um, you know, game of Thrones sort of fantasy where there is a lot of, you know,

[00:44:53] the, the real, the real monsters are the people.

[00:44:56] There are monsters, there are dragons, things like that.

[00:44:59] But it's the, really the, the court intrigue, the, the kings and queens and, um, everybody

[00:45:05] in the palace that you really have to look out for.

[00:45:08] Um, yeah.

[00:45:10] And it was, it's just sort of fun to, to take this idea of, um, you know, this, this character,

[00:45:15] um, who, Noah Lani is our main character who was sort of like plucked from her village because

[00:45:23] she passed this test to be a, a great guardian and was sort of like trained in this,

[00:45:29] abusive religious system to be this, this great fighter.

[00:45:32] Um, but then, you know, ended up falling in love with the queen that she's supposed to

[00:45:37] be protecting.

[00:45:38] Um, and, you know, having this, this relationship that got her kicked out and she's been, you

[00:45:44] know, basically at the bottom of a bottle for the last 15 years when she gets, uh, when the

[00:45:51] queen shows up at the Island and says, look, uh, the princess has disappeared.

[00:45:57] Uh, nobody knows what has happened to her.

[00:45:59] And if we don't find her in the next five days, uh, you know, the guy who's, who she's

[00:46:05] supposed to be marrying is, is going to raise the whole kingdom.

[00:46:07] So like, you're the only person I trust to get out there and find her, uh, go for it.

[00:46:13] And then dumps her sort of back into this court intrigue and all these, uh, these terrible

[00:46:19] things that she's left behind, but also back into this, uh, this relationship with the queen.

[00:46:25] Yeah.

[00:46:26] Yeah.

[00:46:26] I, I mean, just, I really like love the concept, the, the idea of it.

[00:46:32] I mean, there were certain elements of, uh, you know, game of Thrones, the least I haven't

[00:46:36] read the books, but the first season, um, with Sean Bean's character kind of going on his

[00:46:42] little, you know, investigation in terms of trying to figure things out a spoiler alert

[00:46:47] doesn't go well for him at the end of the first season.

[00:46:49] Um, but yeah, I, I kind of wish there was more of that.

[00:46:53] And I love the idea of kind of mashing these two, you know, things up.

[00:46:57] I think of, um, you know, what immediately came to mind?

[00:47:00] Maybe this is like a weird kind of touchstone, but the name of the Rose that Sean Connery,

[00:47:07] the Christian Slater film, which takes place in like a 14th century Abbey and there's a

[00:47:12] murder and they, they're both kind of like investigating.

[00:47:14] Like that's the first thing that I thought of where you kind of almost have, I mean, it's

[00:47:19] not, you know, fantastical.

[00:47:21] It's more of like a medieval setting, but you know, that's kind of a max mashup of a

[00:47:26] historical medieval and almost a kind of detective, not quite noir story, but yeah, I just, I,

[00:47:33] I love the idea of these things, uh, coming together.

[00:47:36] I just really feel like you've fleshed it out with just some very, you know, interesting

[00:47:41] characters and some interesting, you know, dynamics that, that idea of being pulled back

[00:47:46] into the place you've been essentially exiled from.

[00:47:49] I, I just love, love it.

[00:47:52] Yeah.

[00:47:52] Well, thank you.

[00:47:53] I, I, I think it was one of those things that, um, you know, I, I love telling queer

[00:47:59] stories and, and mixing queer characters into these, like these things that we see all

[00:48:04] the time.

[00:48:05] Um, but we very rarely see sort of the queer version of it.

[00:48:09] And I, I, I, I feel like a few years ago, I sort of went on this, like there's too many

[00:48:15] gay Romeo and Juliet's out there.

[00:48:18] Like that, that's a thing that adapts itself very easily to tragedy to, you know, uh, to

[00:48:24] this sort of like experience of, of, uh, sadness and rejection and, uh, all this that we, uh,

[00:48:32] we associate with, with queer people and with Romeo and Juliet.

[00:48:36] But, uh, there's very few gay Lancelot and Guinevere's.

[00:48:41] Um, and that's sort of like what I wanted to model this after is like, this is, you know,

[00:48:47] these are two characters who, uh, really are incredibly attracted to each other, who care

[00:48:52] a lot about each other, but who cannot have this relationship partially because the queen

[00:48:58] will not allow herself to, uh, not be in power, not to be the queen.

[00:49:04] Um, you know, so it's, it's sort of this struggle between not just, uh, will they, won't they

[00:49:11] can, they can't they, but like is, uh, you know, is, is Adora willing to give up this,

[00:49:18] you know, position and, and everything, you know, for, for love.

[00:49:22] For anything.

[00:49:24] Yeah.

[00:49:25] And, um, uh, in terms of like, uh, how did Megan get involved with the, uh, with the project?

[00:49:32] Um, so I, I've been a big fan of Megan's work.

[00:49:36] She, uh, did an issue of, of princeless for me back in the day, which was sort of, uh, just

[00:49:41] a one-off story with a couple of the supporting characters from one of the arcs.

[00:49:45] Um, and I, I loved that work and, you know, was, was trying to get her to, uh, work with

[00:49:51] me on a longer book.

[00:49:52] And I had this, this pitch for the cold ever after that had been floating around for a

[00:49:57] while.

[00:49:58] Um, and I, uh, got her to illustrate that first fight scene, um, that, you know, shows

[00:50:04] up in there where, uh, the, the knights come to, come to get Noelani and she is, uh, not

[00:50:11] willing to go without a fight.

[00:50:12] Um, and so like, uh, Megan did, did that first.

[00:50:18] And that was sort of like, I'm, I'm certain that is what eventually got the book picked

[00:50:22] up is because that art is so amazing.

[00:50:24] That fight is so fluid and dynamic and so much fun, um, that, you know, people saw that

[00:50:30] and they're like, well, yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:31] That's, that's a book we want to have.

[00:50:33] Right.

[00:50:33] Um, so yeah, we, we shafted around, uh, quite a bit and ended up, uh, ultimately with Titan

[00:50:39] who, uh, was incredibly supportive and helped us, you know, give this all.

[00:50:43] Finished and ready to go.

[00:50:44] And it's a, you know, it's a, it's a big, it's a big graphic novel.

[00:50:48] It's a big boy.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:50] I mean, well, I don't think any of these are, you know, there's, uh, any of these

[00:50:56] are, are light reading.

[00:50:58] I mean, I, I, you know, jokingly in terms of the, the weight of them, but these are,

[00:51:03] these are decent size.

[00:51:05] You're getting your money's worth.

[00:51:06] Put it that way.

[00:51:07] You're getting your money's worth when you buy one of these books, you know?

[00:51:10] Oh yeah.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:11] And so just, I, I, I, just before I let you go, I also, you know, wanted to, I guess we'll

[00:51:18] swing back around to something under the, uh, the mad cave umbrella with, uh, paper cuts

[00:51:25] and school for, uh, extraterrestrial girls, which there, there are two volumes, uh, out.

[00:51:32] And yeah, I mean, this is another like phenomenal story.

[00:51:37] Um, but essentially your main character, um, she's the dutiful daughter.

[00:51:44] Uh, she does everything that she's supposed to do.

[00:51:47] Apparently she's hiding as an extraterrestrial.

[00:51:51] She's discovered.

[00:51:52] She gets two options to either.

[00:51:56] Um, I think, uh, go like the government's going to take her away or she has to go to

[00:52:01] like a school for extraterrestrial girls.

[00:52:04] And then, you know, early on finds out her, the folks she's thought of as her parents might,

[00:52:08] might not be.

[00:52:09] And, um, yeah, it kind of takes off from there.

[00:52:11] She has powers.

[00:52:13] It just, um, yeah.

[00:52:15] And kind of a bit of, um, you know, what we might think of as, uh, a, a traditional,

[00:52:23] untraditional girl in a new school kind of story.

[00:52:26] Yeah.

[00:52:27] I mean, it is, it is absolutely in its way, a boarding school story.

[00:52:31] Uh, just one in which everybody who, who's there is an alien.

[00:52:35] Um, yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun.

[00:52:38] Uh, Jamie Noguchi is my illustrator on this.

[00:52:41] He's a good friend of mine and we were sort of like working on, we're trying to find something

[00:52:45] to work on together.

[00:52:46] And he really liked this idea and brought a lot of his sort of, uh, manga sensibilities

[00:52:51] to it.

[00:52:52] There's, uh, definitely a bit of, you know, tokusatsu and, um, stuff like that that's mixed

[00:52:57] in with this.

[00:52:58] Um, but yeah, I mean, ultimately that is a school about, um, it's very, I think very literally

[00:53:05] about illegal aliens.

[00:53:07] Um, you know, about, uh, a kid who finds out that, you know, she's an alien when she

[00:53:13] spontaneously combusts in the middle of class.

[00:53:15] And either she has to go back to the world that she's from, where she's never been, has

[00:53:21] no idea anything about it.

[00:53:23] Or she has to go to this, you know, school where all these other, all the other girls

[00:53:28] there are also aliens and, uh, sort of figure out how to be herself.

[00:53:34] Um, and you know, we get, we get to meet sort of her, uh, friends and her roommates who are

[00:53:39] all, uh, in similar situations.

[00:53:41] Um, but have sort of their, their own stuff going on.

[00:53:46] Um, and you know, like her, one of her roommates, Masako is, uh, is a fairy from basically from

[00:53:52] another dimension and, uh, has a whole, a whole different set of, of circumstances that

[00:53:59] have gotten her put there.

[00:54:00] Uh, they're all sort of trying to figure out their own way through it.

[00:54:04] Um, while also, you know, dealing with having superpowers basically.

[00:54:09] Yeah.

[00:54:10] Yeah.

[00:54:10] Um, what do you think in terms of your, your influences, like the characters that you've

[00:54:16] created, whether or not it's slice of life, but more so with something like when you're

[00:54:21] writing unstoppable wasp or when you are writing like the school for extraterrestrial girls

[00:54:27] in terms of, you know, coming up with powers and, and, and backstories are the things that,

[00:54:34] you know, you feel like you've kind of, uh, you know, consumed and then they get

[00:54:39] you know, chopped up and blended in our, in our brains as all those things do that you

[00:54:45] feel like are, you know, the more important signposts on your way to be the writer that

[00:54:51] you are now.

[00:54:53] Yeah.

[00:54:53] I think, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that, uh, I mean, obviously

[00:54:58] I watch a lot of movies and read a lot of books and comics and stuff like that.

[00:55:01] And, uh, some of it gets chopped up and ends up back in my own stuff.

[00:55:05] But I think also one of the things that really drives me that I, I think I started with princeless,

[00:55:11] but it's very much the case with school for extraterrestrial girls and cold ever after

[00:55:16] is, uh, sort of shying away from doing the easy thing, you know, from, from hitting the

[00:55:23] same sort of tired tropes over and over and having sort of representation that, uh, that

[00:55:30] hasn't always been there and, and can, um, you know, can conserve more functions, can do

[00:55:37] more interesting things.

[00:55:39] Cause I mean, that was a big thing with me for princeless, uh, and that I wanted to have

[00:55:42] a, you know, a lead character who looked like my daughters, who was a, you know, not just

[00:55:47] a princess who was saving herself, but was a young black woman in comics, which was, uh, fairly

[00:55:53] rare at the time.

[00:55:55] Um, you know, it's going on getting close to 15 years ago now that princeless started.

[00:56:00] Um, and, you know, at that time there were very few black women appearing and anything

[00:56:05] that was on the comic book shelves.

[00:56:07] Um, and, you know, something that I wanted them to have a hero that looked like themselves

[00:56:12] and always because that, that book is so tight into fairy tales and fantasy anytime that

[00:56:18] I hit up against a trope that it would be very easy to just go left and fall.

[00:56:23] Follow that thing on.

[00:56:24] I would always choose to go right and go do the harder thing, figure out how this, this

[00:56:30] is going to work in this world and, uh, keep people guessing.

[00:56:33] And I think that's been a thing that's very much carried on through these, whether it be,

[00:56:39] you know, having a lead in a romance who's disabled or, you know, having, I think in, in

[00:56:45] school for extraterrestrial girls, we very much like shied away from the idea of sexy aliens.

[00:56:50] Like, you know, you're going to have a whole school full of girls.

[00:56:54] You didn't want, I didn't want Star Trek types of, um, you know, they're, they're just

[00:57:00] sexy girls, but they're green.

[00:57:02] Um, you know, where each of our, each of our characters is sort of dealing with, uh, some,

[00:57:09] some other stuff.

[00:57:10] Like, you know, her, uh, our lead deals a lot with sort of body dysmorphia because she

[00:57:15] finds out that she is a, uh, a lizard person.

[00:57:19] And so like the, the things she's used to about her body don't, aren't really the same.

[00:57:24] They're not real.

[00:57:25] So she's trying to figure out how that works.

[00:57:27] And, um, you know, I think in that book in particular, we have a character who's, uh,

[00:57:34] very cheery, very happy, very excitable, uh, is, is the nicest person in the book.

[00:57:39] But when she's not wearing her, you know, disguise watch, she is a giant tentacled monster

[00:57:45] that is incredibly frightening to people.

[00:57:47] Yeah.

[00:57:48] Yeah.

[00:57:48] No, that I, I mean, it is interesting.

[00:57:51] You make a good point.

[00:57:52] I mean, I was just thinking when you, when you said that about princeless and I mean,

[00:57:56] you said princess has been almost 15 years.

[00:57:59] And I mean, I, I think of like the DC character, Naomi, which has been less than 15 years when,

[00:58:06] you know, Naomi was created by, by Brian Michael Bendis.

[00:58:09] And I think David Walker and, and artist Jamal Campbell.

[00:58:13] Um, and that, that still felt like that, that was, you know, that, that was less years

[00:58:18] than it was with, um, with princeless.

[00:58:21] And it still felt like Naomi came out that we didn't see in the comic book superhero space,

[00:58:27] like a young, you know, black woman be centered in a comic book story.

[00:58:33] Yeah.

[00:58:33] I mean, it's, it's interesting to think about because there are so many phenomenal stories

[00:58:39] now, so many characters that have, have become a big part of the world, but like, you know,

[00:58:45] princeless at the time it was coming out, it launched the same month as the DC new 52.

[00:58:50] Um, so, you know, that was a month where Marvel didn't have any female led books coming out

[00:58:56] where like, there was no, uh, there was no captain Marvel book, certainly not the, you

[00:59:02] know, the Kelly Sue DeConnick version of it that we've become more experienced with.

[00:59:07] Uh, you know, Kamala Khan didn't exist yet.

[00:59:09] There was no moon girl and devil dinosaur.

[00:59:11] Um, you know, it was, it was launching the same, it was actually the same year as, as

[00:59:17] Miles Morales became a thing.

[00:59:19] Right.

[00:59:20] Um, so yeah, I don't know.

[00:59:22] It's, it's a very, it's been very interesting to see sort of the shift in the marketplace

[00:59:27] over time, because I think at the time princeless came out, it was, uh, common knowledge that

[00:59:33] books like that didn't sell and there was no marketplace for them.

[00:59:37] Uh, that, that would never really get over with comics.

[00:59:41] Um, and then, you know, I think a lot of, there's been a lot of, uh, chances to prove

[00:59:47] that wrong over the years.

[00:59:48] Oh yeah, no, I mean, absolutely true.

[00:59:51] Um, what Jeremy, I, I, um, I, I know I said we, we, we'd be on for like 40 minutes and

[00:59:57] I promised an hour to it, but I just like, there's so much great stuff, um, to talk about,

[01:00:05] but, uh, yeah, I, I cannot thank you enough for coming on the podcast.

[01:00:09] Um, and especially, yeah, listeners, I'm, I'm telling you, um, if there's so much good

[01:00:16] stuff here, regardless of your age or if you have kids or, or don't, um, you know, for

[01:00:25] yourself or, or especially if there is a young person in your life who might be dealing with

[01:00:30] some of these things or might be able to relate to Frankie or Nisha or Gabby.

[01:00:35] Um, I, I just think these are wonderful books, my highest of recommendations for navigating

[01:00:40] with you in particular.

[01:00:42] Um, thank you.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:44] It just was wonderful.

[01:00:46] Um, but, uh, I'll, I'll have links in the show notes.

[01:00:49] So, you know, listeners, you're able to find these things and you can follow Jeremy on,

[01:00:54] uh, social media if, if, if you like to do that, but Jeremy, thank you so much for coming

[01:00:58] on the podcast.

[01:00:59] This, this has been my absolute pleasure to talk comics with you tonight.

[01:01:03] Oh, it's my pleasure as well.

[01:01:04] Thank you so much for having me.

[01:01:06] And yeah, I'm, I'm sure we could, we could go for a whole nother hour.

[01:01:09] Some other time we can talk about my little pony and, uh, all that other stuff, but actually

[01:01:14] talk about unstoppable wasp.

[01:01:16] Yeah.

[01:01:16] Yeah.

[01:01:17] Yeah.

[01:01:17] Please, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll have you back and, uh, we'll, we'll, yeah, I should

[01:01:22] do an episode where we get some, my little pony creators and I got to brush up on my

[01:01:27] knowledge.

[01:01:27] I'm not as good right now, but there definitely was a point in my life where I, I, if you told

[01:01:31] me the character, I could tell you they're cutie Mark.

[01:01:34] Um, I'm a little rusty.

[01:01:35] I'm a little rusty, but I was, I was pretty good for a time.

[01:01:40] I was actually just thinking there's one other thing that has come out since I think since

[01:01:44] we scheduled this, that we should talk about, which is, um, you, uh, you were, you were

[01:01:51] talking about doing the by visibility book.

[01:01:53] Uh, I'm currently, uh, working on editing a book with lifeline comics.

[01:01:57] Uh, we're doing something specifically, uh, by and about, uh, ACE creators and ACE people,

[01:02:03] um, that is currently accepting submissions.

[01:02:07] So it's, it's at lifeline comics and they're, uh, you know, doing all, all sorts of, uh,

[01:02:12] uh, asexual stories, ACE creators, ACE characters.

[01:02:16] Um, so, you know, people should, uh, check that out if, if that's something that interests

[01:02:20] them.

[01:02:21] It, it was a nice sort of like, uh, they asked me to come on and do that after the success

[01:02:27] of the, the Gwynn Poole story that it did at Marvel, where she came out as, as asexual

[01:02:31] as well.

[01:02:31] Um, so yeah, we're, uh, we're getting ready to start doing that.

[01:02:35] And we're taking, I think submissions all the way through, uh, I think October and November.

[01:02:40] And then, you know, next year we should be, be starting to, uh, actually edit that and put

[01:02:45] it together in earnest.

[01:02:46] Oh, wow.

[01:02:47] Um, yeah, you know what?

[01:02:48] I, yeah, but sorry, it slipped my mind.

[01:02:50] I think you did email me about that, but, uh, for listeners that aren't familiar lifeline

[01:02:54] comics, uh, cat and Phil, um, are like the, the heart and soul of lifeline comics.

[01:03:00] They, they, they put out some fantastic stuff, but yeah, thereby visibility was the, the first,

[01:03:06] uh, comic that I ever had published.

[01:03:08] Is it a four page story with, uh, Beck Kubrick?

[01:03:11] Um, which, uh, meant a lot to me, uh, to be in that, that, um, that anthology.

[01:03:18] And, and, and since then they have done, um, so many, you know, great books.

[01:03:25] Um, I know, uh, cat does like the dancer and like father, like daughter, but they also

[01:03:31] put out, uh, the haunting.

[01:03:33] They've done a series of kind of, um, they've done, they did a by visibility too.

[01:03:38] They did hairology.

[01:03:40] Uh, yeah, they're, they're, they are both wonderful comic creators and, uh, yeah, I will,

[01:03:47] I will make sure that I get a link in the show notes for that.

[01:03:49] If there are any listeners who, who want to submit, you know, a story for that.

[01:03:53] And I, I think that's, I think that's fantastic.

[01:03:55] The more representation of stories that we, you know, um, one folks who aren't familiar

[01:04:03] with it can read and, and, and kind of take in.

[01:04:07] And also for anyone who, you know, is asexual, who can express that in their writing or their

[01:04:16] art and kind of see it, you know, reflected back for them.

[01:04:19] I, I, I think is amazing.

[01:04:21] So that's, that's fantastic.

[01:04:22] I'm, I'm glad that you're involved with that, Jeremy.

[01:04:24] Thank you for reminding me and mentioning that.

[01:04:27] Yeah.

[01:04:27] It's, it's important to me because, you know, that, that was a, the doing the Gwynnpool

[01:04:32] book was the first like book that I've ever done where I sort of got to discuss ACE identity.

[01:04:37] I'm, I'm Demi myself.

[01:04:38] So sort of everybody on the team is somewhere in that ACE spectrum.

[01:04:41] And that's the thing we really want to cover in, in this anthology is sort of all around

[01:04:46] the ACE spectrum, all these, these different identities and in different, uh, ways of being

[01:04:51] in the world.

[01:04:52] And yeah, I'm sure, you know, people will hear plenty about that in the coming months,

[01:04:56] including, I know, uh, Bill and Kat are going to be on, on my podcast progressively horrified

[01:05:01] at some point talking about, uh, scary movies and stuff with us.

[01:05:04] And we'll, we'll be sure to push it on there too.

[01:05:07] But yeah, any, anybody who's interested, I mean, all of the, all of the guidelines are

[01:05:12] right on there.

[01:05:13] If you were a writer and you want to tell a story we're doing, you know, you can submit

[01:05:18] two, four, six or eight page stories.

[01:05:20] And then anybody who's an artist who doesn't write and wants to draw something, um, but

[01:05:25] wants to be part of this can, uh, submit their portfolio there and we'll, we'll match people

[01:05:30] up and, uh, you know, get, get this done.

[01:05:33] And it is all, it all, it is all paid work.

[01:05:35] Um, so, you know, it is an anthology, so it's not a huge amount of work, but it is, you

[01:05:41] know, an important thing to us to make sure that, you know, people who are contributing

[01:05:45] to this and telling their stories are getting paid as well.

[01:05:47] Yeah.

[01:05:48] That that's awesome.

[01:05:49] Um, yeah, I'll have a link, uh, for anyone can, they can check it out and check out

[01:05:53] Lifeline comics.

[01:05:54] Um, but it's fantastic.

[01:05:56] Uh, well, Jeremy, uh, won't keep you any longer.

[01:05:59] Uh, we'll have you back and we'll, we'll talk more about, uh,

[01:06:03] some of the other, especially my little pony and, um, whatever else you, you have coming

[01:06:08] out.

[01:06:08] But, um, I really appreciate you coming on and, uh, listeners, thank you for listening.

[01:06:13] Rate and review us.

[01:06:14] Uh, let me know, you know, find me on Twitter, TikTok.

[01:06:17] I'm usually there.

[01:06:18] Let me know what it is you're reading, especially if you get a book that I've talked about or

[01:06:23] talked to the creator recommended.

[01:06:24] If you go and pick up navigating with you, if you've read it, if you've given it to someone

[01:06:29] to read, let me know, let's talk about it.

[01:06:31] I'd love to hear, uh, your thoughts.

[01:06:33] Um, so, uh, thank you, Jeremy.

[01:06:35] Really appreciate it.

[01:06:37] Uh, pleasure.

[01:06:38] Yep.

[01:06:38] Good night, listeners.

[01:06:39] See you next time.

[01:06:41] This is Byron O'Neill.

[01:06:42] One of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book Yeti.

[01:06:46] We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast.

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