John Harris Dunning talks Summer Shadows

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:00:07] So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:11] Y'all Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again

[00:00:14] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media

[00:00:21] My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators

[00:00:24] We know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing

[00:00:29] Another friend chimes in are you gonna make maps?

[00:00:32] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together

[00:00:35] So I guess

[00:00:36] Question mark

[00:00:37] It was then that I discovered Arkham Forge if you don't know who Arkham Forge is they have everything you need to make your

[00:00:44] TTRPG more fun and immersive

[00:00:46] Allowing you to build play and export animated maps including in-person fog of war capability

[00:00:52] That lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you the DM get the full picture

[00:00:59] Now I'm set to easily build high res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign

[00:01:06] That's a win every day in my book

[00:01:08] Check them out at Arkham Forge comm and use the discount code Yeti 5 to get $5 off

[00:01:14] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show

[00:01:19] I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even

[00:01:24] Hello everybody and welcome to the cryptic creator corner

[00:01:27] I'm Byron Neal your host for today's comics creator chat joining me today is newcomer to our show John Harris Dunning

[00:01:33] John is the writer of several graphic novels and including tumult wiper and Salem Brownstone

[00:01:39] And he's co-created co-created the comics unmasked art and anarchy in the UK at the British Library

[00:01:45] Which is the largest exhibition of comics in the UK to date at least I believe that's still the case

[00:01:50] Is that still the case John?

[00:01:51] For the case

[00:01:51] All right, and he's contributed to Rolling Stone

[00:01:54] GQ Esquire and The Guardian among others and he's writing a new mini series dropping soon

[00:01:59] Call Summer Shadows with Dark Horse comics with art from Ricardo Cabral colors by Brad Simpson and lettered by industry veteran

[00:02:06] Jim Campbell a team

[00:02:08] He's already well familiar with as they all worked on wiper together

[00:02:11] So John welcome to our little show you're doing well. Yeah, so well

[00:02:15] I'm really excited to talk to you

[00:02:17] I'm a big fan of the show and I'm really really

[00:02:20] Thank you. Thank you

[00:02:21] Well, it's funny because I feel like I'm been globetrotting lately

[00:02:25] You know in seven days

[00:02:26] I will have talked to comic creators in Africa Greece New York and Canada

[00:02:30] So it's been a busy one and it reminds me of my days traveling around on the road working with bands

[00:02:35] Although I know my body couldn't take it these days

[00:02:37] This is a much better version of it

[00:02:40] Yeah

[00:02:42] Well, I was reading and among other things in your bio kind of reminded me of the road days

[00:02:47] You had that bit about dancing with Britney Spears, which I can't claim to do

[00:02:52] But I was the guy managing her onstage quick change shroud on the next I did in tour

[00:02:57] So if you happen to be a dancer or something on that tour and I've forgotten please forgive me

[00:03:02] So absolutely not no

[00:03:03] I actually just I actually just was with her on the night that she did her film premiere

[00:03:08] But crossroads in London

[00:03:11] I happened to know the producer and we were just kind of put together

[00:03:15] You know sort of VIP room and just left for about two hours

[00:03:20] And all that was in this room was a sort of quite small circular room was a big pink

[00:03:25] satin heart-shaped bed and

[00:03:28] And so we just kind of said hi rather sort of like nervous me and kind of embarrassing and then sat on this bed and

[00:03:36] Made like conversations and they started playing disco music

[00:03:38] And we just dance like and then dance for probably about half an hour

[00:03:41] And then people started coming in and then the party started but it was just it was so surreal

[00:03:47] And you know, obviously that was many years ago. So, you know, she was a big star

[00:03:51] But you know, she wasn't sort of as iconic as she is now

[00:03:54] I feel about that now, but there's a very nice girl and she was very sweet and very polite and

[00:04:00] You know very good dancer. So, you know, that's her

[00:04:05] Man that's to go through after that I can tell you

[00:04:09] That sounds way more fun and less like work as my primary role was

[00:04:14] Was making sure that like the eyes of the local stagehand stayed forward

[00:04:18] So they didn't kind of peek over their shoulder during quick changes. So

[00:04:21] That sounds quite fun too quite a quite an interesting job

[00:04:25] It was it was it was a good time. Good way to spend your 20s for sure

[00:04:29] All right, well, let me quickly set the stage for summer shadows

[00:04:34] First of all, you know, I got a chance to read the first issue and the book is great. I loved it

[00:04:41] You're never narratively tackling quite a lot of things, you know

[00:04:44] You have horror and mystery and romance and I can't say I have any real idea where it's going exactly and that's exciting

[00:04:51] You know, right because I hate too much exposition and being spoon fed everything, you know

[00:04:57] So so you've got Nick Landry who is headed out to one of the unexplored and less touristy Greek islands looking for his ex-boyfriend

[00:05:04] He's a bit stuck after a breakup can't quite get

[00:05:08] Get through it can't quite let things go and there's also a series of kind of mysterious

[00:05:12] Disappearances on the island that are now being investigated by a Coast Guard officer

[00:05:17] And so those disappearances appear to be somehow linked with a jet-black

[00:05:23] Super yacht that kind of happens to be in the area

[00:05:26] And I want to start off with the island itself as a character because it plays such a huge role in the story

[00:05:31] And forgive me if I mispronounce this but is a raxos?

[00:05:35] Is that an actual island because I tried to look it up, but it's not it's not an actual island

[00:05:40] I've made up the name of a raxos

[00:05:43] Because the first rule a fight club first rid of the island I go to is I'll never say where it is because I don't want to

[00:05:49] Okay, so beautiful little island. It's in an island group called the Cyclades

[00:05:55] Yeah, and yeah, it's fabulous

[00:05:58] I've been coming for about 10 years and I spend about two two and a half months every summer

[00:06:03] Here, you know working and writing and just being here

[00:06:07] You know, I know a lot of people here now both locals and people who visit and it's a it's a fantastic place

[00:06:12] And and it's really inspiring

[00:06:15] It's very wild, you know, I live in London. I live in a big city. It's hardcore

[00:06:19] I love it, but um, it's lovely to get away and just be on the rock and the ocean and all of that

[00:06:24] And it's really interesting so I

[00:06:27] Love the fact you picked up. I mean for me the island is a character like it's maybe even the lead character

[00:06:33] In fact interestingly

[00:06:37] I

[00:06:38] Want to do the thing that I always hate on podcasts where people refer to things that they can't remember the names of but

[00:06:44] Initial the initial

[00:06:46] title of the book was called the island

[00:06:49] Okay, and there is a very famous painting from the 1800s a symbolist painting

[00:06:56] Which is called the island of the dead

[00:06:58] I think and it's basically like two rocks and then a sort of boat coming up with her, you know

[00:07:04] With it with with with with with a sort of sailor, you know

[00:07:07] A sharded figure who's rowing the boat to this sort of this this strange island and so

[00:07:14] That painting and and this island sort of started coming together and this

[00:07:19] this idea of

[00:07:22] What did I put it? I think I think I termed the genre beach gothic

[00:07:26] You know this idea of kind of Lana Del Rey born to die that album

[00:07:31] Film noir or these kind of you know murders happening on the beach and these tropical night. There's something

[00:07:39] Interesting about that these these ideas that should be really conflicting

[00:07:45] You know somehow coming together so that that that was kind of that was how the island started to inspire me

[00:07:51] What's quite spooky by is that lots of people have gone missing on the islands this summer?

[00:07:57] okay

[00:07:59] There was actually a think a cop from Los Angeles who went missing on an island

[00:08:04] There's a very famous British presenter who went missing on another island

[00:08:08] And you know they go out walking and they never return so so so that's kind of how as you know

[00:08:14] This mystery starts and it wasn't really it wasn't inspired by that because it hadn't really I wasn't really aware

[00:08:21] That that did happen of course what it's really about is heat waves and people you know going out in the midday sun

[00:08:28] Not understanding how hot it is and disappearing

[00:08:30] But but it was strange. It was a very strange echo, you know as we're getting ready to launch this it's happening

[00:08:36] You know these people are going missing on the island so it felt like a very strange resident

[00:08:41] Yeah, that's sort of convenient oddly I

[00:08:45] Didn't do it. I promise fire. Oh, yeah, I believe you yeah

[00:08:48] I mean

[00:08:49] It's really interesting topographically like I've been to Santorini and I've reached through

[00:08:53] I don't know God knows which Greek islands on various music tours and audience don't hate me for not remembering

[00:08:59] You spend all your time working and really do you actually get to do all that much?

[00:09:03] And actually see the places that you are if you're lucky it's laundry, right?

[00:09:07] Like that's just the nature of that business, but

[00:09:10] You know, I've got a rough idea of the lay of land anyway

[00:09:12] And it's an interesting locale to choose because it conjures all those

[00:09:17] Idealic scenes of you know whitewash walls and blue domes. Although there aren't actually really that many blue domes in Santorini

[00:09:23] Um, but it's a transaction of the desert biome meeting the sea which isn't the first place

[00:09:30] Yeah, it's not the first place you think of when you historically think of vampires. Okay, which vampires are in it

[00:09:36] It's in the advanced solicits so we can talk about it

[00:09:39] But we can talk about it. Yeah, that's not a plot spoiler, but basically

[00:09:45] Here's how it started I often find that as a writer

[00:09:49] Luckily I work in a very visual media because I'm really stimulated narratively by images and

[00:09:56] This island that I come to is not so far from Santorini. That's the same

[00:10:00] That's the same island group the Sikhs of these and

[00:10:03] Obviously that place is like a sort of hateful

[00:10:07] You know center of like, you know

[00:10:10] Elon Musk and sort of billionaires going and you know just just just spending just ridiculous amounts of money in obscene yachts

[00:10:19] And so every now and then on this island you would just suddenly see like that's how this

[00:10:24] Project was inspired was basically sitting on the beach one day. It's beautiful

[00:10:29] Unspoiled beast. You have to hike for half an hour in to get to there's no roads to get there

[00:10:33] It's just super amazing got in there and then suddenly around the corner this giant black

[00:10:39] Plastic yacht that must you know must be worth like a hundred million or something sort of comes into view and just sat there

[00:10:44] Three days like there was a heavy pad on it. There were all these kind of jet skis that come up

[00:10:49] But nothing came off it

[00:10:51] It just sat there for three days every day like baking in the sun

[00:10:54] And then, you know the next you know the morning after the third day it was gone

[00:10:59] And it was just like

[00:11:01] Who are those people like and what are they doing inside this kind of air conditioned?

[00:11:06] You know hermetically sealed black

[00:11:10] Hulking thing which is surrounded by paradise, but they're just not interacting with it

[00:11:14] So then it wasn't actually so far to kind of make the leap to like what's like a coffin

[00:11:19] And then you know, well, then maybe it's vampires and I actually wear better to hide

[00:11:23] As a vampire then in this sealed

[00:11:26] You know thing which you know, it's just completely untouchable as well

[00:11:30] You know these yachts are very untouchable as they bob around

[00:11:33] You know sort of going over borders and not really being very well monitored

[00:11:38] Um, it felt like quite an interesting space maybe for vampires to play

[00:11:43] Yeah, I mean, I know I know exactly that experience that you're having looking at those because I spent a lot of time

[00:11:49] in the fall in akadia national park in main when I was a

[00:11:52] Professional landscape photographer, you know, and I know that part like the back of my hand and you know in addition to

[00:11:57] Crew ships that are always dotting the horizon. You have those massive private yachts that are parked just offshore

[00:12:03] You know and you can't help but wonder who's in them

[00:12:06] You know and that why it merits of you know at that helipad on there

[00:12:10] It's kind of the to me

[00:12:11] It's that ultimate symbol for wealth and for that matter being able to to buy

[00:12:16] Isolation from everyone else, you know, it's it's interesting. So it's exactly right

[00:12:20] I mean, you know, I always joke with my husband. It's like you're so rich that you can't actually go out

[00:12:26] I mean, it's like exactly what you don't want. So so it's like the money

[00:12:31] Basically buries you, you know, it becomes a problem because you know, I mean the last, you know, you become terrified

[00:12:38] Terrified your children

[00:12:40] Kidnap you be terrified of the people around you because they might steal your money

[00:12:44] So it becomes really disfiguring thing like too much money. It's just something that you wouldn't wish on your worst end

[00:12:52] You know, obviously you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy to be poverty-stricken either. I mean, that's no fun

[00:12:57] And it's very challenging too, but it's both a damaging action

[00:13:02] Yeah, it's it's a very interesting

[00:13:04] metaphor to be able to explore narratively to

[00:13:08] looking at freedom because it's one of the last

[00:13:10] I would say free places on the face of the earth where you you're you just don't have the constraints and you're able to

[00:13:16] Purchase that freedom. So and I idealist for vampires. It makes a lot of

[00:13:25] Well, aside from place, you know, what were some of your big influences on the project's DNA?

[00:13:32] You know, uh

[00:13:34] my last graphic novel, uh

[00:13:37] Before what I did another graphic novel called wiper for a dark horse but before that is I did one called tumult

[00:13:45] and

[00:13:47] Again, it plays in a sort of it's not in a supernatural space. So I mean, it's a very different story

[00:13:52] But um, there's something about patricia highsmith that I love as a writer and uh, you know, particularly the film adaptation of

[00:14:01] The talented mr. Ripley

[00:14:03] I knew Anthony mingala the director

[00:14:05] And um, it is it is really one of my favorite films and this idea of kind of um sin in the sun

[00:14:13] and sort of murder in glamorous places and you know

[00:14:17] And and on the beach and you know, it brings me back to this idea of kind of beach gothic

[00:14:22] And um, that was a really big inspiration. Obviously this you know, again

[00:14:28] If we if we're going to be less atmospheric and about the mood of the piece

[00:14:32] I would maybe define this book as um as a

[00:14:36] supernatural

[00:14:38] Psychological thriller because it doesn't just read as kind of like garlic and steaks and you know people running right? It's much more

[00:14:45] psychological and it's it's maybe talking a little bit more about

[00:14:49] um youth and uh

[00:14:51] And and being special and being alienated and maybe

[00:14:55] You know being drawn to things that are self destructive and destructive influences

[00:15:00] But thinking that there might be the kind of you know, you're sort of saving grace

[00:15:04] So it's it's playing all those things out in in in a space which has got a sort of supernatural

[00:15:09] Edge and I guess so so something like The talented mr. Ripley would be an inspiration

[00:15:14] I love horror. It's it's probably my favorite genre in terms of literature

[00:15:19] And in terms of films

[00:15:22] um, and I you know, I'd say maybe something like the ring

[00:15:25] And ringu, you know the original japanese version, but also the the american version of nomi once is just beautiful and so

[00:15:31] psychological and it's almost like the supernatural stuff is just a sort of

[00:15:36] um visual, uh, you know intensification of the things that are going on in that film

[00:15:41] Um, I I just love that stuff. So that's i'm definitely coming from that background

[00:15:47] I mean I look at I look at a writer like james tinny and all the amazing artists that he works with

[00:15:51] Which is too too many to name check all that love to they're all wonderful

[00:15:56] um, you know, I think he does I think he does very well in that space of kind of

[00:16:00] using

[00:16:01] Psychological horror and making it very contemporary. But then it's also very

[00:16:06] Methodological and you buy it. I mean, I you know, I don't want to be too

[00:16:08] I don't want to make it sound too high-brow either because you know, I wanted to be a cracking story and you know

[00:16:13] It's vampires and I love them so um, it's got that too, but it's nice to maybe play on two levels

[00:16:20] Yeah, I thought you were going to tell me that you were a writer on the the British television series

[00:16:25] Death in Paradise or something like that

[00:16:31] Well the the location of the the cyclities being kind of a

[00:16:35] An intersection of cultural influences between the east and the west or greece and turkey kind of allows you to play with

[00:16:41] You know various vampire mythologies

[00:16:44] You can kind of take the western route and you know add a little bit more into it

[00:16:48] You know not to get anything away here

[00:16:50] But we aren't quite sticking with the strictly western vampire lore here is apparently they can trespass on sacred ground

[00:16:56] Among other things. So did you have specifics in mind?

[00:17:01] With respect to their origins. Yeah, I mean I did and so that's two interesting things

[00:17:06] That's well spotted

[00:17:08] And that's not a plot spoiler either because you know my vampires are just like

[00:17:12] I mean they've seen Christianity. I mean they were there way before Christianity

[00:17:18] So

[00:17:19] You know

[00:17:20] I couldn't see my vampires being the slightest bit interested in Christianity or the cross saw

[00:17:25] I mean, you know, I mean that vampire you see an issue one is very old and um, doesn't really care

[00:17:32] Particularly about Christianity. So so I thought that was quite fun and well spotted

[00:17:36] And what I hadn't realized when I wrote the book

[00:17:39] Well, when I pitched the book before I started writing it really

[00:17:43] Is when I started looking into the history of vampires in Greece. It's very old and in fact

[00:17:48] The the famous mythology which is obviously in Romania, etc

[00:17:53] You know, I thought had kind of filtered into Greece, but it seems to have gone the other way actually

[00:17:58] And then for their vampires in Greece, Rikolakas

[00:18:02] and uh, and and and actually they thought um that you know, uh

[00:18:06] This idea of giving the coin to the uh, the you know, the

[00:18:12] Sharon the guy who basically will take you across the river sticks

[00:18:15] Um, you know into the afterlife in ancient Greek mythology

[00:18:18] um that

[00:18:20] That that that little coin which was placed on people's tongues when they were when they were dead

[00:18:25] Um and they were buried um was to do with paying the ferryman

[00:18:28] But actually uh, it turns out that you know later research is saying that it's actually to do with

[00:18:34] Stopping the dead from rising that the metal holds the body down

[00:18:38] And that's that's part of the mythology and and then what was really interesting as I learned that obviously Greece has been through some really difficult times

[00:18:47] And particularly after the second world war. There was a very bad famine

[00:18:51] A lot of people were dying

[00:18:53] You know, that's why you know, we had a big Greek community in South Africa

[00:18:57] There's a big

[00:18:57] big community in Australia in in America all over the world because you know, there was a terrible famine on the second world war

[00:19:04] And during that period there was a huge spike in the belief of vampires and people feeding

[00:19:10] dead

[00:19:11] left that side and

[00:19:13] walking again and

[00:19:14] So it's just really interesting that you know, I mean right into kind of recent history. There's a very strong

[00:19:19] vampire law here in Greece. So

[00:19:23] I kind of felt that it just communicated itself to me and I just had to sort of

[00:19:27] Ride the you know ride the the bronking vampire

[00:19:30] And really so that was quite interesting

[00:19:33] I think that's always such a good sign when you're writing something and then the synchronicity start

[00:19:38] And you feel like you've tapped into something real and and that's really supports one as a writer

[00:19:43] It felt very easy to write when I was writing it

[00:19:48] Okay, well, I have to thank you because it gave my

[00:19:51] Have an anthropology degree

[00:19:52] Um

[00:19:53] And focused on mythologies of ancient cultures. So I inevitably went down the rabbit hole with exactly what you're talking about with the apatropaic customs

[00:20:03] Um regionally, which are the objects and practices designed to make sure that the recently dead

[00:20:08] Don't get back up, you know

[00:20:10] And and there was quite a bit of historical record actually to explore

[00:20:16] With respect to that in Greece. So are you are you like a heavy researcher when you write? I'm imagining so

[00:20:23] Um, I'm just a really heavy reader. So yeah, I mean I read all the time. So yes, yeah

[00:20:28] I mean I was I was researching. I mean, you know, I wasn't I wasn't sort of not

[00:20:32] Writing because I was researching but you know, I mean, I've been I've been reading all around this as I was writing

[00:20:37] And it was really competing, you know, and there's I mean obviously Greece is just

[00:20:41] It's such a turn on, you know, just there's just so much history and so many layers of history and

[00:20:46] You know, it's just wonderful. So one of the other things I learned was um, you know

[00:20:51] spending more time in Greece and going through Athens

[00:20:55] Basically

[00:20:56] Going to see some of the artwork that's there and you know, you you learn

[00:21:01] That the old Greek bronzes, you know, they're kind of beautifully sculptured figures which

[00:21:06] Basically inspired and were copied. I mean even beyond inspired

[00:21:10] Copied by the the the romans and imitated endlessly, you know, and then obviously in the whole of europe too

[00:21:16] I think there's only 250 of them left in the world, which is just incredible thing

[00:21:22] um, so you you really

[00:21:24] There's there seems like there's a certain kind of cultural magic

[00:21:28] On these islands and like you go to the siktides and they look completely

[00:21:32] uninhabited and really wild and everything and then, you know

[00:21:35] The more you kind of dig you realize like, you know, they were they were, you know, mysian

[00:21:41] My senior and then even minnow and you know, some of them are like 3,500 years old like the settlements very very civilized

[00:21:50] So, you know, santa rhenia is obviously a great example of that. Um, and so, you know, probably inspired the the myth of atlantis

[00:21:59] So, you know, you just feel this weight of history in Greece and it's just so inspiring

[00:22:05] Yeah, I mean there's all these interesting

[00:22:08] I love mythology and the parallels could you you look at ancient cultures? So

[00:22:12] My focus was more on native american cultures. Um, but but looking at greece you have the

[00:22:18] The greek vampire lore it's fascinating because they were regarded as creatures that that that eat peoples livers

[00:22:25] Right, which and that that goes right along. There's a parallel between native american, you know

[00:22:32] A mythology of undead liver eaters as well. I don't know what it is with livers, but it's kind of strange

[00:22:38] delicious

[00:22:39] I don't mind liver. I mean livers for

[00:22:43] Yeah, just not human

[00:22:47] I can't say i've ever gone there before

[00:22:50] yeah, yeah

[00:22:51] I have had a messai blood milk, which was uh, yeah

[00:22:55] Oh, well, seriously were you in 10?

[00:22:58] Yes, yes

[00:22:59] Amazing. Yeah. Yeah back on a dave matthews tour

[00:23:04] Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, well, that's a whole other side thing a guy I started uh, actually

[00:23:11] You on your on your uh on your music years that would be an interesting

[00:23:16] Sadly, it's just

[00:23:18] I'm not the greatest storyteller in the world. I think it has to do

[00:23:22] Um with with being spectrum a little bit, you know

[00:23:25] So it truly is a shame because I feel like I've lived it, but I'm not not the greatest that articulating

[00:23:31] The experience but yeah, I started working actually for dave matthews. I broke my tibia

[00:23:37] Um in two places and was laid up and the catering company actually

[00:23:41] Happened to be working for dave matthews and was based out of noxville where I was based

[00:23:46] so, um, they asked he's like hey, I know you're laid up

[00:23:49] Do you want to drive around?

[00:23:51] You know the catering truck on this tour for

[00:23:54] Five six months until you're all healed up sure. I'll do that

[00:23:57] So that transition got to know everybody and then that transitioned into a gig doing more managerial kind of stuff

[00:24:03] But yeah, that's how it works

[00:24:05] Excellent. You end up drinking blood milk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that and what was it?

[00:24:12] I don't know if i'm pronouncing it correctly, but errag which is the mongolian

[00:24:17] Marys milk that's fermented. Yeah

[00:24:20] Yeah, no not for me

[00:24:22] Not for me

[00:24:23] No, no, no

[00:24:24] Anyway, getting back getting back to the book. Um with the two main characters

[00:24:29] We are following in the first issue nick and alexos

[00:24:32] We are getting something of the same struggle but through very different lenses, you know

[00:24:37] Both are dealing with unresolved inadequacies

[00:24:39] Which is all wrapped up in the mystery of the island and the creatures that are prowling it

[00:24:43] And it kind of has an emotional through line

[00:24:46] I was curious why that specifically because vampire fiction comes to come in two flavors, right? You have

[00:24:52] Sexy, you know or the flip side is like 30 days of night where you get more brutal and savage

[00:24:59] Sad and anxious isn't the sandbox that you typically expect

[00:25:03] So it talked to me about those characters and kind of why you wanted to pull on those

[00:25:08] Oh my god, I guess I'm just so close to the emo myself. I mean, I okay love

[00:25:13] I just love a melancholy anything so

[00:25:16] So so so that's probably my fault. Uh, I guess also though like if we're talking about kind of vampire lineage

[00:25:23] I love my analyze

[00:25:26] And there's something there's something. I mean, that's very sexy. I hope this is quite sexy as well

[00:25:32] Um, there is something of the sort of melancholy or kind of philosophical

[00:25:37] Uh, aside that you know, she goes she sort of meanders through philosophy and you know, she's quite splendid and she's quite decadent and she's quite

[00:25:47] You know spooky and she's quite eerie and um, I like that stuff, you know

[00:25:52] And uh, and I think she actually roots it quite

[00:25:56] Well in human emotion or in emotions that we could understand that she intensifies them these kind of undead

[00:26:03] Charities and um, and I think I might be playing sort of slightly in the same wheelhouse there

[00:26:08] And although you might you might find a little bit of 30 days at night

[00:26:12] creeping upon you as the series continues, but um, yeah

[00:26:16] I I like that idea and again it comes back to you know, I don't know why

[00:26:20] I'm name checking checking it so much. But you know, really I think

[00:26:26] If I go back to that Lana Del Rey

[00:26:29] Born to die album

[00:26:31] I think uh, when she released that album summer time sadness

[00:26:34] I was just so pissed off that she'd come up with that phrase. I just thought it was a amazing phrase and why didn't I come up with that before?

[00:26:40] I like how could they not be a song called that before that song?

[00:26:43] And so um, so summer shadows was kind of my homage to that and that mood of that album

[00:26:49] Which is sort of very glamorous but quite sort of um melancholy and quite dangerous and still very beautiful and very

[00:26:57] Bug-Gyling that felt like an inspiration that felt quite vampiric

[00:27:02] That there's something about vampires that very attractive

[00:27:05] Yes, you know very uh bug-Gyling but at the same time like really bad and really destructive and really

[00:27:12] Uh, you know wrong. So so so I kind of these things just kind of started cross fertilizing

[00:27:19] brain and you know the story just just kind of came from there and

[00:27:23] You know, I like this idea of this this young guy kind of a drift

[00:27:28] Looking for his ex who doesn't really want to looking for him again. Not it's not a plot spoiler because it starts off

[00:27:33] You know him reading this postcard from his ex who's just saying don't come after

[00:27:38] And um and he feels like was he coerced into that?

[00:27:41] Does he you know all actually is he just not getting the message?

[00:27:46] That's read read on to find out

[00:27:48] I definitely got the the end rights vampire chronicles flavor in there, which was

[00:27:56] hugely foundational for me as a teen

[00:28:00] For good or for bad kind of establishing what a queer marital relationship could look like, you know

[00:28:05] I was raised in a religious household in the 80s

[00:28:08] You know and it allowed me to kind of mentally explore my own identity sexually, you know at least mentally

[00:28:14] Um, you know even and even if the end result was I'm about as great as you can be

[00:28:19] I've always been grateful to that series for

[00:28:23] Allowing me to explore it in a safe way that I would never have otherwise had the opportunity

[00:28:28] I mean, I I I think that that's something that's so important

[00:28:33] And I think we're in a time where you know, it's so great that we have

[00:28:36] You know won so many bloody hard one big victories, you know across the entire spectrum

[00:28:43] um, which is really important but um

[00:28:47] We can't

[00:28:48] We we for me so to use an rice and Madonna as two examples. It's like, you know

[00:28:54] I think Madonna's erotica and her sex book. I I really misunderstood them when they came out

[00:28:59] Um, I mean, I love the video and everything. I just didn't get the book

[00:29:02] I just don't understand what she was trying to do so it was too much

[00:29:04] It was quite go. She was just really intense

[00:29:06] But I mean hadn't realized that you know, she'd been friends with map before

[00:29:09] She'd lost lots of friends to to aids

[00:29:13] She could see that America was terrified of sex and they they'd lost this

[00:29:18] Incredible revolution that had been gained by the gay men who just taken sex forward and just become

[00:29:24] Suddenly like the u.s. Was going back to some of my dark ages and she was trying to hold that space

[00:29:30] And um, you know and I suppose one nowadays could you know, one could criticize her and

[00:29:36] You know could could accuse her of cultural appropriation of some description

[00:29:40] But I mean as a young gay man growing up with that woman around I just I wouldn't

[00:29:45] She stood the most incredible job and I guess I still believe that really

[00:29:49] Where spaces or you know talking about race all of those things

[00:29:54] I think we can all agree that that should be opening us all up to being really really

[00:29:59] Open and really curious not shutting things down

[00:30:03] You know and um that that's what we need to I think we need to really fight for together

[00:30:07] And I think I love the fact that you know an rice

[00:30:11] Was this inspiration to you?

[00:30:12] I mean, I love the fact that an rice was like so into queer fiction

[00:30:16] But like actually wasn't very queer herself like right. It's just that's cool

[00:30:20] I mean, you know, that's that's what turned her on and that's what allowed her as a woman to be free

[00:30:24] The same as Madonna learned to be a woman to gay men

[00:30:28] You know that allowed her to be the woman that she wanted to be

[00:30:31] I think that's so freeing for all of us to

[00:30:34] To to look at other people's experiences and allow that to free us even if we're not

[00:30:38] The same kind of people that's beautiful. That cross-pollination is

[00:30:43] Really really interesting. I totally agree. I I loved Anne Rice and you know, she was a great

[00:30:49] She was she was a great

[00:30:52] inspiration to me kids

[00:30:53] You know even as even though she herself was a straight woman

[00:30:56] That's just with fabulous and really curious and strange and unusual. So I love that

[00:31:02] You know and looking at nick as a character and he is in that

[00:31:06] that that key

[00:31:09] At that key age where

[00:31:12] You're trying to figure yourself out. You're trying to figure out the context

[00:31:15] Of your your own identity and in doing my research for this

[00:31:19] I came across you mentioning wanting to explore kind of the pressure

[00:31:23] Of gay men to look young and to seek youth youthfulness in their partners, you know

[00:31:27] And I haven't seen that explored very much in comics, you know, we talk about in our household gay shape, right?

[00:31:33] I think it's a byproduct of like binge watching legendary during the pandemic, you know

[00:31:39] Right

[00:31:40] So we tease our teenager. Oh, you're in shape, but you aren't in gay shape, right?

[00:31:44] And after reading about you wanted to explore it

[00:31:47] I can see

[00:31:48] The potential toxicity the downside that it could cause and I imagine those pressures as only

[00:31:53] Amplified in you know in places like miconos, you know

[00:31:56] Totally. I mean

[00:31:58] Again, it's just so interesting to see what's happened generally. I mean, it's like, you know

[00:32:03] I'm all for the patriarchal system being torn down

[00:32:06] But what's worrying is that almost what you want is everybody to benefit from the upside not everybody to

[00:32:13] suffer from the downside and what I've seen certainly in my adult life is

[00:32:18] Young men and older men and middle-aged men and just all men

[00:32:22] From not being it's all about their gaze. So they didn't need to look in any particular way

[00:32:28] It was all about what woman looked like, you know, and then gay men were obviously much more aware of themselves

[00:32:32] So, you know feeling that they had to look good for each other

[00:32:35] To being kind of everybody feels that they have to look good and everybody is maybe pushing themselves too hard

[00:32:41] So hopefully we come up the other side where everybody feels great about, you know, who they are and how they are

[00:32:47] But I think that pressure in a way is almost increased

[00:32:50] across

[00:32:51] Everybody, you know, and and I think and you're absolutely right like I think for gay men

[00:32:56] There are a lot of pressures and some, you know, a lot of gay men have got real problems with self-confidence

[00:33:01] And confidence in their masculinity feel they have to work out have to look really good if they they're going to be lovable

[00:33:07] So, you know, it's it's it's stuff that I guess as a gay man myself like I didn't really look at when I was younger

[00:33:15] And maybe now that I feel a bit more confident and I'm a bit

[00:33:18] You know, you know a little bit more mature. I can actually look at it and be like, okay

[00:33:22] I can talk about

[00:33:23] subject which maybe I

[00:33:25] Wasn't ready to talk about as you know as a teenager

[00:33:28] And as a very young man because I you know, I think it's quite difficult to have that perspective

[00:33:32] for the context really

[00:33:36] Yeah, I mean there's a lot of people that I talked to where

[00:33:41] When they're writing in the queer space, they're often

[00:33:43] Writing for the younger version of themselves, you know, because they just didn't have

[00:33:48] That anything really that much

[00:33:51] So this is a really really good. Um

[00:33:55] I mean, yeah, I mean far be it for me to be a buzzkill, uh, but uh

[00:34:01] I

[00:34:02] I I also I worry slightly that

[00:34:06] Again, like as a gay writer. I have to write like incredibly positive stories about

[00:34:11] Gay experience and queer experience because actually

[00:34:14] Really hard and I think it's quite important to acknowledge that

[00:34:18] And to certainly acknowledge in the past where you know, I mean, it's still very hard

[00:34:21] I mean, it's hard. You know, I mean being straight is hard by the way

[00:34:24] So, uh, you know being a woman's heart being a man's heart everybody has there has their thing and and but but I think it's quite important to acknowledge that

[00:34:31] I mean I look at a lot of my friends

[00:34:34] gay friends

[00:34:37] And there's much bigger problems in the future

[00:34:41] And I think it's just you know, sort of sort of insecurity as a youngster and sometimes just out what mostly outright aggression

[00:34:50] Is very very damaging and it's quite important. I think to acknowledge that and I think

[00:34:55] This book isn't about that necessarily, but I do think you're right in that. I think nick

[00:35:00] Is at a crossroads. He's a young man

[00:35:03] Attracted to rather a dangerous type

[00:35:05] Um, you know and vampires aside, you know his ex who's you know the human and to just

[00:35:13] Just isn't very nice as we see in a distant and

[00:35:17] But he can't let go of him and I think you know, that's something to acknowledge

[00:35:21] Maybe some of that is insecurity and and him never really having felt that great about himself

[00:35:26] And therefore not expecting some treatment very well. So I'm trying to play with some of those things as well

[00:35:32] All right, let's take a quick break

[00:35:35] Hey comics fam it the comic book publisher band of bars just got a level up and announced it is now a cooperative

[00:35:42] This heralds a new era for them including a partnership with dollas stories

[00:35:47] And they added several new members to the ownership group

[00:35:50] Marcus Jimenez is now chief operating officer Brent Fisher takes on the role of chief diversity officer

[00:35:56] And joey galvez is introduced as head of Kickstarter ops and social media manager

[00:36:01] Which is sure to increase their capabilities overall as a publisher

[00:36:04] And it further promotes their mission statement of advancing representation

[00:36:09] inclusion and diversity in the media

[00:36:12] They also established a new board of directors to help chart the new path of their journey

[00:36:17] With new projects in the works like Alaska by dropping in june

[00:36:20] Unbroken soon launching on Kickstarter and pawn coming up with thoughtless

[00:36:23] Stay tuned to this space for more exciting news from the growing bards family. Let's get back to the show

[00:36:34] What's a reader? I found that very refreshing

[00:36:36] I just got to say because and it could be because it's something I've gone through relatively recent my recently myself, but

[00:36:42] You know in 2020 I had this big massive autoimmune event which really put me on my ass, right?

[00:36:48] I couldn't walk without help. I was down to 128 pounds. We found out

[00:36:53] Yeah, we found out it was lupus, but ultimately where where i'm getting at with this story is that

[00:37:00] My identity who I thought I was all this stuff was shared

[00:37:04] um, so it's it's really

[00:37:06] refreshing to see

[00:37:08] That vulnerability explored in a comic book kind of in a way. I just I just don't see that much so so anyway

[00:37:13] I really enjoyed that. I'm really pleased that is a huge compliment and I think that's very important because

[00:37:18] You know again to say, you know your your event

[00:37:22] um the event of you know, maybe bullied or

[00:37:25] You know the standing aggression as a kid for whatever reasons, you know whatever can happen

[00:37:31] It sounds like a cliche

[00:37:32] But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and if you come through that thing and have that a have incredible

[00:37:38] Other people and if you really have empathy for yourself as well and those things are really

[00:37:44] Powerful pressures to have have won. So, you know again, you know again not wanting to spoil the clock

[00:37:50] But that's kind of that's what I think nick is is exploring for himself

[00:37:55] Like, you know, what does he think he wants and what does he actually want and why does he think he wants what he wants?

[00:38:02] and it's it's it's an analysis which, you know, hopefully is, uh, you know

[00:38:07] becomes clearer and and is presented in a kind of

[00:38:11] Murder mystery, which you know, which unfolds and and is hopefully quite compelling because I you know, I love

[00:38:17] I love noir

[00:38:19] Like I just I love noir and I love horror and I'm I'm playing with those tropes and I think that's been really fun

[00:38:25] I you know, I love the fact that

[00:38:27] You know, you get it more than a hint of the supernatural in the first issue

[00:38:31] But you could kind of almost be reading it as a as a noir or as a kind of murder mystery as well

[00:38:37] Even though nothing odd up and that's fun. You know, I like the mechanics of that

[00:38:43] So in the noir genre and it's an interesting point you just made so

[00:38:48] It's interesting to me because your approach to world building

[00:38:53] Is a little bit different because it a lot of that is also focused on

[00:38:58] Non-human entities, right? You have the boat you have the island

[00:39:02] But these are these are your characters

[00:39:05] So it's also kind of a way to play with the vampire genre a little bit

[00:39:08] Because you're you're taking things and and giving them a different version of life if you will

[00:39:13] You know, was it was it conscious in trying to to look at noir and trying to use this vampire mythology and

[00:39:19] this place and these things and sort of

[00:39:24] build the world more

[00:39:26] So is it much more character driven? Is that if that makes sense? Yeah, it totally was. I mean it totally

[00:39:33] Because because it was it was like a piece of mathematics for you know, and that's what made sense to me

[00:39:39] It was like I I love this but I love these kinds of stories and that's what is I find compelling

[00:39:43] So if I can if I can marry these things in some way they'll work and then also like, you know

[00:39:49] I just want to let the readers know as well. It's just I mean, I love vampires and as you were saying

[00:39:56] You were saying that these

[00:39:58] have some sort of strange

[00:40:00] oddities and kind of peculiarities and I

[00:40:03] loved that as well like these vampires, you know, we can have another conversation after the series, you know

[00:40:09] I will will will will regroup because I don't want to ruin it for you

[00:40:13] But um, you know, I've really leaned into what

[00:40:17] Are they're very cool and I've got their own mythology for them which I think works as its own system

[00:40:22] So I'm also not being so kind of high high bra that

[00:40:26] Have lose the vampires in some sort of conceptual metaphor because I love them as kind of nuts and bolts characters

[00:40:33] And you know, if we're talking vampires, you know, we've mentioned these two different polls

[00:40:37] Like the one poll for me is

[00:40:39] um interview with the vampire the film which I think was very beautiful

[00:40:43] And you know cursed and dunce was fabulous in it. I you know, I agree

[00:40:47] I sort of agree with an rice that although

[00:40:49] Brad Pitt and tom cruise actually really good actors and they really gave it everything

[00:40:53] I just I just think they were miscast, you know, they were just too

[00:40:57] They were just too drunk

[00:40:58] You know, I still don't understand how the hell johnny dept did not do that role

[00:41:01] But anyway, um, they just didn't work for me, but it was a beautiful film and uh

[00:41:06] I really like it and then 30 days of night is just

[00:41:10] Absolutely incredible like the kind of violence of those creatures and this the terror of that film and then also

[00:41:16] Was important as the poetry of it, you know

[00:41:19] It's like that balance, you know of horror like the shining gets that

[00:41:23] Rosemary's baby gets that the ring gets that like I love that horror where it's it's genuinely terrifying

[00:41:29] It can be nerve shredding, but it's still beautiful and kind of

[00:41:33] Erotic and sort of attracting in some way. So that those elements are really important to me and I guess

[00:41:41] You know, sorry, I'm rambling a little bit about horror here, but um

[00:41:45] You know, it was such an important moment for me as a kid like when I was probably 11 or 12 watching alien

[00:41:51] Watching nightmare on elm street like watching all this really gory

[00:41:55] Sort of horrific stuff. I just adored it as a child

[00:41:58] I mean it terrified the beauty's enemy, but I just adored it and there was a kind of

[00:42:01] erotic component and a terror and a and a sort of

[00:42:06] No, it was like an openness. You know, it's like this is a this is an unexplored world

[00:42:12] And anything could happen and weirdly that's quite attractive

[00:42:15] so

[00:42:16] That's I think in this book as well

[00:42:19] It's kind of love of horror and this love of the space that horror allows you to be in psychologically

[00:42:26] Well, let's get into the actual visuals of the book then because first of all, it's it's stunningly rendered by riccardo his line work

[00:42:34] Remind me a whole lot of werther's work is something is killing the children. Yeah, you know if that makes sense

[00:42:40] You know kind of to give listeners that comparison point, you know

[00:42:42] And you've worked on multiple projects together. So now that you have that familiarity with each other's process

[00:42:48] All right, are you finding that that you're scripting less because you you've got a lot of things

[00:42:54] You're sort of cramming in there. So he is I mean, I always say that he's like an old

[00:42:59] I mean, he's literally like a magician, you know our last graphic novel that we did together wiper which is like a sort of afro futurist

[00:43:07] piece which is set in south africa

[00:43:09] um

[00:43:11] Is drawing for that the level of detail it's just absolutely

[00:43:16] Mind-blowing so he just went off on one. He's the cyberpunk african cyberpunk and just nailed it, you know

[00:43:23] And um, I'm very obsessive

[00:43:25] Visually as well. So I mean like I think I gave him five or six hundred reference images for that

[00:43:30] I mean, wow, actually who puts up with that it's like you should get the eyes and just for putting up with me

[00:43:35] Um, but he's really he's really chilled. He's really open to it. So he does that and then he processes

[00:43:41] processes it

[00:43:42] And then he goes off and he does his own thing and it felt same on on this

[00:43:48] You know there was uh, there was a

[00:43:50] You know, there was the image of the boat coming onto the beach, which was real

[00:43:54] um, but then there was also uh,

[00:43:56] The photo shoot for lana del re's album born to die that kind of vintagey faded colors

[00:44:02] That was an important image and then there was another

[00:44:06] Uh set of images by this french photographer called cedric boucher

[00:44:10] Did a campaign for prada fashion campaign for prada in 2001

[00:44:15] Of all this kind of heroin chic very skinny models kind of

[00:44:19] You know, it's a drifting around a really

[00:44:23] brightly floodlit

[00:44:24] But very sort of pale beach in these kind of red

[00:44:28] and white

[00:44:30] outfits, um

[00:44:31] And they just looked sort of placed on the beach and so odd and strange and ill and creepy

[00:44:36] So obviously I loved it and um

[00:44:40] That that image was suddenly like those are my vampires

[00:44:43] These are the creatures that are in the yard

[00:44:46] Um, this is this is these these things are coming together on my head

[00:44:49] So so I gave that to ricotta as well and all these different images that I threw it in but he is remarkable

[00:44:55] Absolutely remarkable. I mean he

[00:44:57] So so so to go from cyberpunk and kind of futurism to this

[00:45:02] Which is much more kind of maybe in the in the style of

[00:45:05] Junji Ito and uh, you know, kind of classical horror

[00:45:10] You know like 1950s and 60s like kazuo

[00:45:15] Um, and you know that kind of 50 60s japanese horror, which is obsessed with

[00:45:19] Um, and we looked at a lot of that too and and the way he can switch styles

[00:45:23] I mean it's you can eat you can immediately see ricotta as in both of those projects

[00:45:27] But his range is absolutely spectacular. So he blew me away with us and also his storytelling like how he will

[00:45:35] Split pages and kind of use the pages to show the psychology of what's happening

[00:45:40] And it's just awesome. So it was a real honor to work with him again

[00:45:45] Yeah, I was really curious about the opening page

[00:45:47] Because it starts off with a big splash page with a kind of a reflected image down the the horizontal center line

[00:45:54] You know, I I've got a series of my own work

[00:45:57] Of slot canyons in american southwest

[00:46:00] Um, that tells like the sequential

[00:46:02] narration of the navajo creation myth

[00:46:05] So

[00:46:06] Kind of framing him that way

[00:46:07] So I have a familiar technique at least in terms of reference point. Was that your idea or ricardo's idea? Just curious

[00:46:14] um, no, that was ricardo's idea completely. Um, and

[00:46:18] I can I can I can tip my hand to you and say that basically

[00:46:23] I wanted to slightly

[00:46:26] Shake up the structure of the comic because it was my first floppy on the shelves

[00:46:31] Yeah, and I also wanted to give ricardo that space to

[00:46:36] Like to really nail the fact that this is not structured like every other comic is structured

[00:46:40] And it's not basically structured. It's not it's not an experiment piece but

[00:46:44] um in um, dwingy itto's

[00:46:47] Collections that have been printed recently by vis I think

[00:46:51] They do these collections and because he's publishing in these other

[00:46:55] Publishing short stories in these anthologies in japan

[00:46:59] He has a kind of chapter heading at the beginning of each of his stories, which is just like a weird image

[00:47:06] And those images are just so incredible

[00:47:09] Like uh, and so I wanted to give ricardo like just a weird image like at the beginning of each issue

[00:47:15] And it's not necessarily a part of the story but except of course it is all related but it's not

[00:47:21] It's all you know, it's something that you would never be able to draw as an artist in the comic

[00:47:25] It's just some kind of high

[00:47:27] Concept thing or even like a really specific detail that's not seen in the rest of the comic

[00:47:31] But it's just on that front page image

[00:47:34] Um, so it was really just to let him go crazy and he has done some amazing

[00:47:40] Uh front images so I can't wait for you to see the rest of them

[00:47:43] And then there was a little space just to do a little bit of poetry

[00:47:46] So, you know, I was investigating like quite a lot of Greek poets as well who I've been reading here

[00:47:51] So it's just also just a little space

[00:47:53] Just to play conceptually and you know, if you're not into it you just flip past and it's just oh, that's a cool image

[00:47:59] But if you want to sort of dive into it and get a bit

[00:48:01] Crazy like I do with comics and you know sort of meditate on it and get really into it then

[00:48:05] You know, we put a lot of energy into that as well

[00:48:07] And that's that's what comics do like this

[00:48:09] There's such a special medium and they're not cinema

[00:48:12] And they're not literature that they're their own beast and um, and we're just trying to

[00:48:18] Max that out with this little block as much as possible. God, I'm sounding so like I hope it's also just a really fun story

[00:48:24] I mean, it's not it's not quite as strange as I'm explaining it

[00:48:27] But um, you know, I just love the I love the medium so much and I I love trying to stretch it and

[00:48:33] And play with it as much as possible

[00:48:35] I really appreciate that and and that's probably the anthropologist brain

[00:48:40] Because I look for all these little hidden details and you know, you throw

[00:48:45] You have that that small quote at the the opening

[00:48:48] Flash page there and I'll forget their name but the the Greek

[00:48:51] Oh, I looked it up and I believe they were nominated for several

[00:48:55] Nobel Prize in literature. Is that correct or?

[00:48:58] cousin zarkis. Yes, absolutely

[00:49:01] Amazing writer like poetry and fiction

[00:49:04] nonfiction and everything and obviously some massive star here in Greece

[00:49:07] So yeah, it would be nice to get into all that literature as well. You know, I didn't know so well

[00:49:12] Um before but my mum's actually always been really into Greece and Greek literature

[00:49:16] So, you know, I've inherited all of her. You know, she's still around but I just I should not say inherits

[00:49:21] I should say just stole all of her

[00:49:23] Greek books now that I'm coming here a lot more reading my way through them

[00:49:26] And it's just a whole different literature, which I I didn't know very well

[00:49:30] It's great to to get involved in that and see it and of course the history

[00:49:34] And the culture in Greece is just so rich. So it's great to dive into that

[00:49:39] Is our sunglasses or glasses in general a piece of that history because one of y'all has an eyeglass

[00:49:45] Fetish because there are so many pieces of eyewear in this book

[00:49:50] I don't know why I locked onto that but there's a lot of them, right?

[00:49:53] And it's not just the the vamps, right? It's not just like a lost boys thing

[00:49:57] It's like all over the place. So who's got the eye glass? That's actually me

[00:50:00] I have to I have to confess and if you go back, this is hilarious. I hadn't thought about this

[00:50:06] This is the big reveal you heard in here first if you go back to like wiper and you go back to a

[00:50:12] To multi particular there's like a lot of sunglasses

[00:50:15] I don't know

[00:50:16] It's I guess I'm like

[00:50:17] I'm my childhood 80s and like all about sunglasses and sunglasses at night and shades and cool shades and

[00:50:24] and it's just there's something about that and

[00:50:28] You know, like if you look at a lot of the 80s vampire literature in particular, there's lots of like, you know, you look at what was that?

[00:50:36] um, you know vampire the masquerade that uh

[00:50:38] That role playing game that then became a comic. It's like there's just something about like cool characters wearing sunglasses

[00:50:45] And obviously you worked at rock. So you know all about that

[00:50:48] Um, there's something about that and then that just relates so well to vampires

[00:50:52] So I think I might have gone a bit mad on that. Um, but yes, uh, this uh, yeah guilty as charged

[00:50:58] Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean well the that era that that we grew up in

[00:51:04] Where glasses really did become fashion, I feel like and

[00:51:09] As as an article and had you know, really the first eyewear being explored

[00:51:16] purely for an aesthetic

[00:51:19] You know, we had these

[00:51:21] There's something important about sunglasses in particular because

[00:51:26] You know the fact they block the eyes out and they it's something that's sinister and all enigmatic or both, you know

[00:51:34] It's like like the great the great sunglasses moments. So you're talking like jack Kennedy. You're talking garbo. You're talking like

[00:51:44] Roblo

[00:51:45] Talking like you're talking this sort of, you know, there's something about like hiding behind glasses and like black eyes that you can't see into

[00:51:54] Um, I don't know that they are

[00:51:57] You're right. There's something actually that crops up a lot in my work and I I like them

[00:52:01] I think there's something really powerful about

[00:52:04] You know a body and that you can see and is communicating

[00:52:07] But if the eyes are pitch black and you can't see them very hard

[00:52:10] Gauge what this creature is so it's a bit of a short term for that really

[00:52:16] Yeah, well

[00:52:18] Well, okay

[00:52:19] I'm it's sort of a cheat in a way because I grew up in that era

[00:52:23] Lost boys was so

[00:52:25] Pivotable and and on the on the poster was it jason patrick who's who's dropping? Yeah. Yeah, exactly

[00:52:32] So, um, and it maybe look at lost boys

[00:52:35] A little bit further there because there's there's even that recruitment angle

[00:52:39] That you're playing with a little bit. It seems like in summer shadows. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And look, I mean

[00:52:47] There is you know, and um, you know, and it goes back to those things of like, you know

[00:52:52] Analyze plays with it too, you know

[00:52:55] You know, how much would you give for youth?

[00:52:58] You know to retain your youth how much would you give to be

[00:53:02] A life forever and what does it mean to be alive forever? You know

[00:53:05] Comes back to this idea of

[00:53:08] You know, I mean, I don't be ghost. It's like, you know, I'm sure I'm sure they're nice billionaires out there

[00:53:13] Of course, I don't know many but I don't know many billionaires. So, you know, but

[00:53:18] But you know, I'm not talking about real billionaires

[00:53:20] I'm talking about this concept of billionaires and

[00:53:22] You know post capitalist society which is all over the world

[00:53:27] You know, there's just something

[00:53:29] About, you know that that obsession with youth the obsession with

[00:53:34] staying alive forever accumulating power

[00:53:37] being more than human which is just kind of

[00:53:40] Very monstrous actually or certainly leads to a monstrous way of being that I think is really useful

[00:53:47] um, you know to be playing with

[00:53:49] Vampires and and and and so I can play with those ideas outside of the real world, which I always think is more

[00:53:57] powerful

[00:53:58] Actually, you know to to be playing in sort of mythology and supernatural spaces for me as a storyteller fits me

[00:54:05] My think really well, you know, some people can be super journalistic and you know, sort of thought about facts and contemporary facts

[00:54:12] I don't really operate like that. It's just a different style really so that works for

[00:54:18] Yeah, the

[00:54:20] One of the things that really really I latched on to there

[00:54:23] Is the currentness of the book and how grounded it is in the now, right?

[00:54:28] You know in a in a location known for antiquity, you know, there's modern technology

[00:54:33] Which most horror comics will avoid like the plague for obvious reasons, right?

[00:54:38] Um, and I get why they do that. No, no, no, you're absolutely right. Like I love that. I love it being now

[00:54:44] I want to speak absolutely now so feel

[00:54:48] You know, I still I think it's harder for horror writers and you know, it's just

[00:54:53] I mean we live in an absolutely horrific world in many ways, but like it's hard

[00:54:57] It's hard to be spooky. You know, like it's hard to be eerie

[00:55:01] It's hard. I mean like someone like David Lynch is the king of that, right?

[00:55:04] Like that he can still find these crevices of like weirdness in our everyday life and uh

[00:55:11] um

[00:55:11] I really like that but it's harder to find because we have so much technology and we're so

[00:55:17] Surveilled and it's all about technology. Which is actually extraordinary boring

[00:55:21] Um, so, you know, it's hard. It's harder to find the eerie, but it's still there, you know, and sometimes

[00:55:29] The technology can actually amplify them, you know, uh, you know, uh, so so so that's

[00:55:35] Yeah, it's interesting to play in that space

[00:55:38] Yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, and I found it really really refreshing because so many people are just

[00:55:44] Very very reluctant to to to dip in that that pond

[00:55:48] Okay, I'm really I'm really pleased you enjoyed that aspect and and you know, it's interesting because

[00:55:52] You know, I hope you can see this in the book as well

[00:55:55] It's that you know, we

[00:55:57] Ricardo and I are maybe sort of slightly nutty in terms of

[00:56:01] The levels we go to for the work so, you know, I was determined for him to see this island

[00:56:07] So we came over here together for a week. Yeah

[00:56:10] Camera and he bought a sketchbook and he spent a week

[00:56:14] You know, I mean, I knew the hotel that nick was staying in

[00:56:17] And he stayed in that hotel

[00:56:19] And uh, you know, I just I just I was obsessed with that hotel being where this character lived

[00:56:25] And we went to the beaches where I'd seen the yacht and so, you know

[00:56:28] There's it's very much a real case which he obviously then I mean

[00:56:31] Was a slave ship after all and he's

[00:56:33] You know, he's made it his own and it's island

[00:56:37] But it was like I felt he had to he had to

[00:56:41] He had to be possessed by the spirit of the place before he

[00:56:45] Um, and he's just so up for that kind of thing. So he's he's incredible

[00:56:49] Really, he's such a committed artist

[00:56:52] um, and it's interesting because you know, I I've mentioned a lot of film references

[00:56:56] I've mentioned a lot of literary references, but you know,

[00:57:00] You know if I'm thinking about

[00:57:02] Where my career is going it's like I

[00:57:05] My my graphic novel tumult was on satan french and nominated big prize at angelaire

[00:57:10] Which is the biggest european kind of comics festival. I would say it's for me the most important

[00:57:16] Well, it's amazing. That's really honored to have that happen

[00:57:20] um, but I actually really love

[00:57:23] American comics like that's what I grew up on and like, you know to be honest with you like as

[00:57:28] You know, I can sign this hard prize I want but like, you know, I love back girl and wonder woman and she held and spider woman

[00:57:33] And that's what I grew up reading and you know, I love my superheroes as well. I love us comics. So

[00:57:40] um

[00:57:42] I really like

[00:57:44] Marrying these things, you know, and I think comics are so good at absorbing these fresh influences and

[00:57:50] Influences from outside we just expand them, you know, and I'm certainly not putting myself anywhere in the same space as

[00:57:56] for like game

[00:57:57] Morrison and more but that's that's definitely what they did in an unbelievably brilliant way

[00:58:03] I must take these, you know, just not, you know, I mean

[00:58:07] You

[00:58:08] You could find it being sort of quite scrappy and quite snarky how the you know, they were always like

[00:58:13] Oh, no, no, we don't really make just reading other stuff. But I at the same time

[00:58:18] They were, you know, I mean like they were they were reading other things and just enriching comics so much and writing some

[00:58:25] unbelievably good

[00:58:27] God love the poor they did such a good job and I I like to do that as well like, you know

[00:58:33] Be reading and looking at things and you know art and photography and cinnamon on the stuff

[00:58:37] But you know comics is my media and you know, and I also want them to be really entertaining

[00:58:42] I like I like being entertained. I don't want to I want to make it

[00:58:47] Tough tough slog for people. Yeah through my work. So, um, you know, hopefully hopefully I've achieved that

[00:58:54] Certainly have for me. Did did comics find you then or did you find comics? You know

[00:58:59] so, uh, you know going back to the fact that you know, I I looked in South Africa in in a

[00:59:06] Fine that was really quite difficult, you know

[00:59:09] it was during apartheid and you know sort of under a state of emergency and there was no, um

[00:59:15] Reporting all the media was controlled. Everything very very careful

[00:59:18] controlled coming in and out

[00:59:21] and um

[00:59:21] Except comics, which was hilarious like they didn't bother. I mean, they were just comics and they were to check comics

[00:59:27] So comics came through so there's a lot of anti-apartheid sentiment in there can think about

[00:59:32] 2018 British comics crisis, which is something

[00:59:35] subdivision of 2008 at a point very very anti South Africa very anti-political

[00:59:41] But even more than that, like just a society I lived in was very controlled the little tiny

[00:59:47] slice of white society that was a tiny minority

[00:59:52] awful

[00:59:53] society

[00:59:54] um, so boring and was suffocating itself to death. Luckily did die of death eventually

[01:00:00] but uh

[01:00:01] You know within that space there was no culture. There was no publishing. There was no music

[01:00:07] Nothing, but there were comics and I just remember as a kid like just

[01:00:11] These gateways into these different worlds just the energy of the imagination was just like a lifeline to me

[01:00:17] So, you know for me by the time I was 10. I was dreaming comic

[01:00:21] caption

[01:00:22] I mean, I was obsessed with comics

[01:00:26] and it was only later that you know, I went to film school and I

[01:00:31] I also write screenplays

[01:00:33] TV and film and I've done a lot of journalism but

[01:00:36] Comics were my first love and my greatest love, you know, I love the form

[01:00:40] I find it's so interesting that you visual and narrative the same space and

[01:00:46] That's why it's really important to have

[01:00:49] My artist as well because me that's just essential because the two things are so connected

[01:00:56] So yeah, I love the form. So, you know, I mean comics definitely fun big way and uh

[01:01:03] It's interesting you talking about that because it's just got me thinking about the

[01:01:07] The the British invasion in comics if you will and and I don't I've only talked to a few people with

[01:01:13] South African roots that are comics creators, but it definitely feels like there's a

[01:01:18] common thread

[01:01:20] in

[01:01:21] in that repression

[01:01:23] Allowing you to have very very different voices because it's just something that I'm seeing it's it's just

[01:01:29] Very hard to describe it's a bit ephemeral, but it's different for sure that you just don't see

[01:01:35] It's a different it's a different perspective. You know that allows you I mean, I often think that

[01:01:39] I mean, you know, I don't believe the British creators are intrinsically better than American

[01:01:45] It's just that's just not the case

[01:01:47] But it's interesting how they were allowed to be those rebels

[01:01:51] You know, it's like they were being hired because oh, they're British like they they're crazy

[01:01:55] They swear a lot they can say things they can kill superheroes

[01:01:58] They can you know, whereas I'm sure there was many many punk rocker American writers and stuff, but it was just kind of it just

[01:02:06] Wasn't quite as easy for them to you know to have that

[01:02:09] And actually even to be marketed in that way within the US. So it's it's interesting how it all it all happened

[01:02:16] You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of amazing

[01:02:19] British creators know

[01:02:21] Christian Ward is

[01:02:23] Absolutely amazing. I just think everything he does

[01:02:27] Art is amazing, but his writing is absolutely awesome. Got some things coming up now

[01:02:31] Which I've been lucky enough to see in previous mind blowing

[01:02:35] You know and and plenty others. So, um, you know, I think there's I think there's a good scene

[01:02:39] But you know America's you know booming as well with comics, you know, I mean, I know it's a tough moment in industry

[01:02:45] but

[01:02:46] Really exciting. There's so much great material

[01:02:50] Oh, I think that's part of the problem, you know

[01:02:52] Yeah

[01:02:54] Is there's just a dearth of things that that you can absorb right now? And and so

[01:02:59] You know, we're coming out of this recessive moment, you know economically. So yeah, it's yeah, but

[01:03:07] It's a weird problem. How are you know, it's you talking earlier about uh, james tinny and

[01:03:13] Incredible writing and it's unbelievable business brain and that whole team is incredible actually

[01:03:19] Great luck hard as well. Like just such a great team

[01:03:24] And uh, you know

[01:03:27] And they're all creators too and you know and hopefully they can change the paradigm. I mean like

[01:03:32] I'm not I'm I just don't have a grasp of the industry

[01:03:36] How it works to to reinvent that

[01:03:39] Tickling thing, but I'm thank god. There are these brilliant brain

[01:03:43] doing it

[01:03:45] well if

[01:03:47] If I've done my job, hopefully we've convinced some people to help you to to get in that echelon

[01:03:52] Let's let's put it that way right and convince people to

[01:03:55] Buy to buy some summer shadows

[01:03:57] And you've given me a dream come true that I can work in a wu tang reference here to start signing off the interview

[01:04:03] For the first time so listeners protect protect your neck, right?

[01:04:07] You know from john's work here

[01:04:10] Make sure you get in your order for summer shadows. Um, I'm I'm delighted that I got a chance to

[01:04:16] Sink my teeth into what will be one of these standout horror genre reads of this spooky season

[01:04:20] I love what I did like there. I thought it was pretty good

[01:04:24] Just remember summer summer loving sucks guys

[01:04:30] That's so good you guys you need that

[01:04:33] Talking to you honestly really it's just been brilliant. Thank you for all those insights as well

[01:04:37] It's just it's so nice to have it out there. You know, we've been

[01:04:41] You know we've been producing it for a long time. So it's just lovely to hear

[01:04:45] That you that you be interactive like that. It's great

[01:04:50] Thank you. Well, what else what does she got going on? Um

[01:04:54] Well, I've got uh, you know, I've got another series which is just about to be announced at dark horse as well

[01:05:01] I'm I'm co-writing with somebody that

[01:05:03] On the show that I can't quite yet announce, but I'll be talking to you about it as soon as I can

[01:05:09] That's coming out really. I mean we should be announcing within the next month. So so that's really exciting and that's another

[01:05:16] four issue series

[01:05:18] from dark horse coming up

[01:05:20] um, and then, you know, if people are

[01:05:24] Um

[01:05:25] Smitten and bitten by some of shadows then they should go back to wiper which is the some

[01:05:31] futurist cyberpunk piece that I did with ficardo and the same creative team

[01:05:35] Brats and some of the colorists who's amazing

[01:05:37] Campbell awesome too

[01:05:39] um, you know, and then and then maybe back to tumult which is you know, the other one that I did which

[01:05:45] It was kind of probably the kind of most critically acclaimed

[01:05:48] One and it's maybe the most literary and that was with a Michael Kennedy

[01:05:52] Who's now working for yorker and doing stuff sweeney's and it's just an incredible star as well

[01:05:57] Wow

[01:05:57] So, you know, go back and have a look if you if you're interested and um and look out for for more announcements soon

[01:06:06] Awesome. Well, where would you like people to find you online?

[01:06:10] Um

[01:06:10] I mean i'm on twitter

[01:06:14] um on uh john h dunning and i'm on instagram

[01:06:18] John harris dunning always happy to chat. So yeah, you know message away

[01:06:22] Tell me what you think when you've seen when you've seen the issue

[01:06:26] The f oc is on the 5th of august which is really useful if you pre-order that's that's a really big deal for us

[01:06:32] Comic creators and then it's on the shelves on the 11th of september. Um, so so let me know

[01:06:39] All right, well everybody listening, you know what to do call your shops fill out that lunar or previews order form

[01:06:44] Do the damn thing already and get yourself a copy because it is absolutely certified cool in my book

[01:06:51] I loved it. So, you know john thanks for coming on and chatting with me today. It's it's been a lot of fun

[01:06:55] I've had such a good time. I hope to do it again soon. Thanks so much for having me

[01:07:00] Absolutely, we'll definitely get you back on well. This is bianonio and on behalf of us all of us at comic book eddy

[01:07:06] Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time take care everybody

[01:07:09] Ciao

[01:07:11] This is bianonio one of your hosts of the cryptid creator corner brought to you by comic book eddy

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