Kelly Thompson Interview - Jeff The Land Shark

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[00:01:29] Head to 2000AD.com and click on subscribe now or download the 2000AD app and why wait? Start reading today. I'll put links in the show notes for you. When I was a kid, I read a book called Seven Gill, The Shark and Me by Don Reed. This sparked a lifelong obsession of learning about the often misunderstood and malign animal of the shark. When I got off the road after over a decade working with rock bands, my intent was to pursue a career studying them and other large marine mammals.

[00:01:57] It was all mapped out. I had my ticket punched with my friend, who was already doing it. He was traveling around the road on boats and hiking Mount Kilimanjaro on the weekend. But I was going back to school. I met my wife. My plans changed, but that fascination about sharks has never wavered.

[00:02:15] So you can imagine how excited I am to welcome back on the show. Eisner winning comics writer Kelly Thompson, who knows a thing or three about Marvel's beloved little mischief maker, Jeff the Landshark, who has a one shot on shelves now called It's Jeff Jeff Week and a new five issue miniseries dropping in June. Kelly, welcome back. It's always nice to see you. It's always nice to see you, too. Thanks for having me. Of course. So do you love sharks?

[00:02:41] I think fascination is better than love. I think I think I'm always a little afraid of things that are dangerous in an environment that's not my natural environment. Like I love water, but I am a little afraid of water. I'm vulnerable in water. I'm also super strong in water because I'm fat, so I'm nice and buoyant. And it's a nice relief on those joints, the water, you know.

[00:03:10] But so it's like a love hate thing. And I think that's the same with sharks. I'm fascinated by them. I find people and how fascinated they are by them really interesting. I was radicalized early by seeing Jaws probably far too young and getting very afraid on the Universal tour when I was also too young. But yeah, a lifetime sort of fascination with them.

[00:03:37] And when I when it was time to like do something fun of what's a fun visual thing they can fight in this West Coast Avengers that aren't really part of the ongoing plot, we ended up with land shark. And, you know, just sort of happened from there. Like Stefano Caselli drew these terrific, terrifying land sharks. And then there was this one in the background that looked really concerned. And I just couldn't stop thinking about him. And that's many years later. Here we are. Yeah.

[00:04:07] I mean, you've said Jeff was the character that nobody needed. Yeah. Oddly, he ends up being the one with, you know, the breakout success. I mean, I just bought I just bought comic boxes with him on them. Like, it's crazy. It's crazy. I think someday I would be shocked if some shark month he doesn't have every corner box with a Jeff the land shark in it. I mean, he's taking over. It's incredible. It's crazy. Yeah. That's surreal.

[00:04:33] So how did how did he evolve over time from the guy in the background and he just didn't quite fit to the guy biting Deadpool in the ass in your Deadpool run to now the iconic Jeff that we know and love today? I think that the evolution was surprisingly organic. Maybe more than anything that's ever happened with something I've done at Marvel or anything in comics, really.

[00:05:00] Because, you know, the very idea for him, as I said, came from this random concerned background land shark, Stefano Caselli drew. And then I had had Gwenpool get it save a kitten in a like a car wreck thing that they were involved in. But then she had to give it back. So she like still wanted a pet. And so somehow we ended up I also had cats that were at the time that I created Jeff.

[00:05:29] They were they were pretty young. They were only like a year old, a little over a year old. So I was like very in love with them and everything they did. And so that plus is concerned shark. But then there were also like I'm sorry off the top of my head. I cannot remember the name of the artist. But there was like so for only like three or four issues was Jeff in there. But we like gave him and Gwen a theme song. One time an artist drew it looking like he was drinking a cup of coffee.

[00:05:59] And I just think it like opened people's minds to like what he could be like. Why is the shark drinking a cup of coffee? Maybe he's just not just a pet or whatever. Like and so we and I just think that just kept developing. Like when West Coast Avengers got canceled, I was like, where the fuck am I going to do with this little land shark I've created?

[00:06:17] And I was like, well, a really fun meta joke that fits for Gwenpool and Deadpool would be for her to take Jeff to Deadpool because her books are always getting canceled. But Deadpool always has a book. And so in her mind, maybe Jeff can survive. And honestly, it was a brilliant idea that I had and a brilliant idea for Gwen to have. And it totally worked because it fit the narrative. It was funny. It was interesting. And it turned out to be true.

[00:06:45] I mean, Gwen still struggles to keep a book. And I think Jeff went almost directly from Deadpool into it's not immediately that I started doing the It's Jeff book with Guri Heru, but it wasn't that long after. And so it did. It did help him survive. And then like I picked him up here and then I showed him there.

[00:07:11] And like, you know, every once in a while he showed up in a future Captain Marvel story and things like that. But he was also appearing very organically because Guri Heru, the artist who draw the strip but did not co-create him, Daniele Di Nicolo co-created him with me on West Coast Avengers. But Guri Heru loved him. And they drew him in this exhibition poster that went very viral. He was with all these other characters.

[00:07:36] And then they started drawing him into the background as like extra eggs of things like so-and-so has a Jeff Magnet in their house. And here's Spider-Man folding his Jeff boxers, you know. And like so he just started popping up everywhere. And I think people really enjoyed it and it started to become a thing.

[00:07:53] And then once we had the strip going, which is on Marvel Unlimited but then gets collected into print editions, I think it just it just all it gave us a lot of stuff that was working on like a low level so that when Rivals came out and all these people got exposed to him on this huge level, there was all this art and a lot of these stories just sitting on the Internet that people could pick up. And they're like, oh, my God, this land shark's everywhere.

[00:08:20] And like it also helped, I think, that, you know, a lot of people when he debuted in Marvel Rivals, he was killing a lot of people. And so people were very mad at him all the time. And I think it did help that when you go when you go to look for images of this land shark that just kicked your ass in the game, every single image of him on the Internet is him being like the cutest little fucking thing you've ever seen. And so it was like this organic pushback to what they wanted it to be, which was that he's some monster.

[00:08:50] And I don't know, just worked out, man. It just worked out. So did you even have to really pitch it? It sounds like it was very much a hey, here's Jeff. And it just went so viral that you were probably like, hey, how about a Jeff book on Marvel Unlimited? And they were like, yeah, yeah, sure. They asked me to do it. I didn't even pitch it. OK. Could figure out a way to make it work and make sense.

[00:09:16] I was putting him in things I was doing, like in the future to show him having survived in the Captain Marvel book. Like that was fun. He would sometimes show up in like Easter eggy ways, like in Black Widow. You can't put the shark in Black Widow, but like the kid was wearing shark pajamas and there was like a plushie in his room and like stuff like that. So we were finding ways to like sort of keep him alive in a way.

[00:09:43] But, yeah, they came to us with the strip and they were like, do you want to do this? And I was like, well, it depends on who's drawing it. But if it's Guri Hero and they're like, that's our first pick, too. And I was like, well, then, yes, 100 percent. And, you know, we just sort of went from there. But, yeah, I think I think it's great that when people are looking up this Marvel Rivals character, they can find all this incredibly cute Guri Hero art, you know. And then same thing. They came to me after Marvel Rivals. After the hit with that.

[00:10:12] And we're like, do you want to write this series that'll be in print? I was like, yes, absolutely. So and here we are. It's been crazy. It's do you play the game? I don't because I don't really play any video game. I mean, I've got a couple of video games on my phone. Like I used to play Marvel Snap and stuff, but I try to resist the video games because I just have terrible willpower. I'll never write anything again. It's, you know, be the best Jeff the Landshark player, but there will be no more stories.

[00:10:44] But I've watched a lot of gameplay. I've watched a lot of really fun gameplay. It's been quite, quite a joy to watch. And they like they really did a great job. I mean, you know, it's hard to adapt something like that. And they really captured a lot of what makes them very charming and fun and cute while also sort of doing their own thing. And they borrow from the comics when they can, which is great. Like putting them in costumes and stuff, which is for people who don't know something he does in the strip all the time. We don't know why he likes it. It's very transformative.

[00:11:17] Well, you posted pictures of your fur babies and you referenced them as that Monarch and Clive on the Substack newsletter way back in like October of 2021 when Marvel Unlimited series was, you know, just kind of kicking off. Yeah. And I was going to ask you if you ever accidentally put your cats in the dishwasher, but that picture provided answered that question. So how did how did the boys inform Jeff as a character? I think, you know, people always say he's a he's a shark dog.

[00:11:46] And I'm like, no, he's a shark cat. I mean, listen, he is a shark dog. We we lean into a lot of very pet things. Right. But for me, most of the inspiration comes from the cats. So I he reads much more as shark cat to me. And his mer sound is very much based on my cats, especially Clive does a lot of merowing, you know, merow like where it's like he sees a fly and that's the greatest thing he's ever seen. You know, whenever. Yeah. So a lot of that comes from there.

[00:12:16] Although we will be exploring what Jeff's language is in the new series. Oh, cool. I think it will surprise everyone. Hopefully it will be really fun. Nice. Well, I think a huge part of his appeal is the pure joy that he brings to the page, which is a life law fan of sharks myself. Thank you for softening their reputation a little bit. But but what was appealing to you about crafting this cute character that also sort of taps into one of mankind's most primordial fears?

[00:12:44] I don't I don't know for sure. I'm very susceptible to like a cute creature. That's like that's a kryptonite for me, for sure. But I do think when you can take a thing that is scary to people and like defang it a little bit, like sometimes that can help you or be really fun.

[00:13:04] I think also you can tap into sort of a larger audience a little bit if if the thing that you've made cute is also like a scary thing, a thing that can be scary. Like you're sort of doubling your audience appeal there because maybe someone who likes Hello Kitty wants a cute shark because it's adorable. But maybe someone who doesn't like Hello Kitty is like, oh, but it's still a shark. You know what I mean?

[00:13:33] Like I didn't do it on purpose. He just ended up having this sort of very broad appeal, I think. And he does. He is sort of flexible because Jeff likes to eat. His number one thing is he wants to eat everything, whether it moves or not. But as soon as he make friends with you, he doesn't want to eat you and he wants to protect you and he does the right thing. And he's got like a very big heart. But, you know, he starts from a place of just wanting to eat everything.

[00:13:58] I mean, we've got one where a stray cat wants this big, juicy fish that he's been given. And he's like a complete dick to that poor cat where he's like. And then later he sees it's like a poor, hungry stray cat trying to feed its babies. And he's like, oh, well, OK, I should share my fish. But like it takes a minute with him. You know, he's got to be convinced that there's a better way. Right. And the initial way is always like a selfish me way. And I think that's probably pretty relatable for a lot of us.

[00:14:27] We want to be good people. We want to do the right thing. But we're also selfish and we're always covering for ourselves first. And some of that's just smart survival mechanism. And some of it's really sad and dark about humanity and us pitting ourselves against each other. But Jeff is a pretty I mean, I'm very grateful for him. It can be hard sometimes to write his stories right now because I don't feel light and bright. But it's also a welcome respite.

[00:14:57] I mean, especially, you know, what's going on in Absolute Wonder Woman. She herself is a very bright character, but that's a very dark world with a lot of odds stacked against you. And to be writing them at the same time is it's nice in a way, like two sides of this same dark thing, but just process very differently, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And I connected with him on a slightly tragic level as well. He's constantly trying to adapt to make everyone else feel comfortable. Yes.

[00:15:27] That that feels very me. Yeah. So how has he evolved as a character for you over these three seasons of Marvel Unlimited? Because at the beginning, we were kind of at a brighter spot. We're coming out of covid. Somebody else was elected president at that time. And things looked a little brighter. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do think that it's Jeff's strips in particular. I mean, I think people will find something a little different in the series, which we can talk about.

[00:15:54] But I think the strips in particular, because they're very limited, there's some variation in how many panels you get per strip. But they basically want us around 15. And for 15 panels and no words, you're very limited in what you can execute that actually still has like a turn in it. So what you can do within the strip is almost just like a really well executed joke, unless you're going to do part ones and part twos and stuff. And so then you can maybe get into something a little more complicated.

[00:16:22] So because of that, I love the format of that. And I think it's incredibly fun to play in the same way watching Looney Tunes. Great. Right. But there are sort of limitations on how much I can grow him within that frame. Like, it's really easy to show this thing you just mentioned, like he's always trying to change himself to make other people feel comfortable, like wearing a dolphin costume in the ocean, which can't be comfortable, by the way.

[00:16:50] So like, that's easy to show, but it's hard to show growth from that, you know, without any dialogue and with a high limit on the panels. But I think in this series, you're going to see a little bit more of that sort of growth and a little bit more of like how he processes and deals with more complex systems. Because, you know, when they hand you this mini series, I mean, the first thing I was like, yes, that's so cool. And then I was like, wait, it's like 100 pages. Like, are we silent?

[00:17:20] If we're mostly silent, like how the hell am I going to do that? You know, and so we're obviously not most of the time. I mean, Jeff still doesn't speak, but he interacts with a lot of people who do. And we're finding really clever ways to like get around that and people to toss them next to. Yeah. And so I think you get more through that process and through a more complicated ongoing storyline,

[00:17:44] you're going to get more sense of like who he is and how much agency and how he thinks and things, which I think is a great evolution for him. I mean, we talked about doing it as just like some shorts, but I really thought, no, let's let's dig in. Like, let's let's explore it and let's let's lean into the things that make it hard. No words, things like that. And, you know, some of those things might not totally work, but others will be really great and will be excited about.

[00:18:14] And so far, it's been mostly things to be excited about. So I've been really having a great time. And Toki Toro does the art. Guri Hero wasn't available to do this because of their tight schedule. So they're still doing covers, but Toki Toro is Toki to Toro. I think it is Toki. I call them because that's easier and I don't think I'm getting that part wrong. They're doing this incredible job. Very cute. Very fun.

[00:18:44] But, you know, more complex storylines and a lot more characters that, you know. Yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah, it seems like a unique opportunity, especially with the big two, to have several years of an on-ramp to kind of work with the character and develop them. And I kind of want to touch on what he's taught you as a writer over that time because you're working with a largely silent character.

[00:19:10] So I said that changed the way you're thinking about writing character acting or anything else that you've noticed. I don't think it's changed that much except for just to highlight how important it is to have the right artists with you. Because with Jeff, I think Guri Hero is so good with storytelling and every kind of expression, including just the most micro expressions.

[00:19:37] Like they can get across how Jeff is feeling with just like the arch of his back. Like they're so masterful in that way. Toki and I don't have the same experience of working. Like this is the first time we've worked together. And I think the demands of the print book are a little different than the way we're doing the strip with Guri Hero.

[00:19:58] But I've been incredibly impressed with their style and with how well they express Jeff similarly to Guri Hero. Which is like the simple lines and micro expressions. I think their style is a little more kinetic. Like Guri Hero have a very composed style. I think Toki's is much more kinetic.

[00:20:23] And I think sometimes that can lend towards we have to be a little more careful with readability or clarity. But I also think you get a lot from it. Like a lot of really fun, exciting things that I wouldn't have expected necessarily if I was doing it with Guri Hero. You know, so you just try to lean into, you know, for example, Toki has some on their Instagram.

[00:20:49] They have some super cartoony versions of Jeff and other characters. Like sort of like Chibi style, but not really. It's even more sketchier than that. And so we wrote that in to the book. Like, you know, there's like a funny thing in the first issue that you see. And it will probably be reoccurring, although I'm not sure where I'm putting it yet.

[00:21:12] But so, you know, you just try to lean into, you know, if it was Guri Hero doing it, I would probably lean into something different. But Toki's doing it. And so it's important to lean into what they're great at and what will do the best for the book. So I think it's more about your collaborators and like finding that that space, you know? Yeah, yeah. They were on Hulking and Wiccan on Marvel Unlimited, right? Yes. Yes, they were. They were. Okay. Okay. All right, everybody.

[00:21:42] We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Let's face it. The comics landscape is a mess right now. I'm the editor in chief of a comics journalism outlet, and I can't even keep track of it all. If you are as passionate as I am about indie comics and its creators, you should check out the Lantern Guide. Created on the premise of creating light in the dark, it's going to be the go-to resource to keep you up to date on the projects and the creators. That you love. Don't take my word for it. I reached out to my friend Brian Lovell, Poison Ivy artist and indie comics creator, to get his take.

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[00:24:25] Check them out at Arkenforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you. And big thanks to Arkenforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. Does that same sense of working with the artists and kind of trusting their version of that apply to...

[00:24:50] Because the Marvel Unlimited series was working in a vertical scroll, which I don't think you have done before. Does that change the way you think about layouts or anything? Well, with the Marvel Unlimited, you don't really think about layouts because it's scrolling. I mean, the only thing Gary Hero and I think about with layouts are some oftentimes, not always, but we'll often draw in a long panel that's got... You know, like in the very first strip, it was like a pool party.

[00:25:20] And so it was like him swimming on this very long panel. So we'll do some of that, but we've honestly cut back on that because everything's getting collected into print and that's really hard to recreate. So I got to be honest, I wish I had more of a hand in... I don't want to do it. There's really great production people to do it, but I wish I got to see it before they locked it down.

[00:25:47] For example, for any of you who picked out It's Jeff Week last week or are planning to, Naofuji, a really talented cartoonist who draws a lot of those Meow strips and some of the Alligator Loki, they did not get credited at all in this book and they drew four of those strips. So I know this was a mistake. I talked to Marvel about it. I'm sure they feel very bad and they're trying to, you know, but what's done is done. It's already printed. So what are you going to do?

[00:26:15] So any of you who have it, Naofuji drew the Shark Man where they make the Shark Snowman. They drew Travel Sized where Jeff sneaks in Kate's suitcase. They drew the Parade Escapade one where Jeff kills the MODOK balloon. And the one where they're ice skating and he rescues the dog. So I just want to put that out there.

[00:26:37] And I do wish I got to look at it before they put it together because I do think there's a real art to reassembling those pages. But what I will say is everything I've seen so far looks really good. In general, I feel like they make really good choices in how they reformat it. So I've been pretty pleased with it overall. Yeah, I was impressed. The thing that comes to mind for me was, I can't remember which specific one it was, but Jeff was swimming down to get to MODOK underwater. Oh, yeah.

[00:27:07] And that I was really curious how that would translate on the page. And then when I picked it up in print, I was like, oh, OK. Not bad. It works. Yeah, they're very smart in that production. They really they do a great job. I just wish there was a little bit more collaboration so that we could just talk, which has happened before, but it doesn't always happen. So I definitely would have caught the lack of crediting, though. So that's a good reason to put me back on the list.

[00:27:36] Well, getting into the new book, we know that Jeff breaks into my personal favorite location in the Marvel Universe, the Sanctum Sanctorum. And he releases a shadow demon version of himself. Well, it is the demon steals his shadow. Yeah. And I love this as a character who everyone assumes just by the way he looks that he's up to no good, even as sometimes he is up to no good. But he's often judged as the appearance of a miniature great white shark running around.

[00:28:04] So what what made that duality the next obvious narrative sandbox that you wanted to play it? I wanted something that was very specific to Jeff, but that wasn't going to naturally have a lot of dialogue. Like, I don't think we think a shadow demon that steals your shadow is probably doing a lot of monologuing. So I wanted something that was sort of on Jeff's level that he could fight and try to solve.

[00:28:28] And that wouldn't be like, you know, I don't know, Jeff going up against Galactus or some, I don't know, Madam Mask or something like I just wanted something that made sense for him. And what made sense for him is, oh, I like the Sanctum Sanctorum because it's full of weird things to lick. And while I was in there, I got in a tussle with these two snakes. I think they own the joint and we broke a vase and out of the vase came a possibly nefarious creature that took some shit that belongs to me.

[00:28:56] And like that feels like it's playing at Jeff's level to solve. It also has a clever way through the shadow of letting us sort of use his Marvel rivals power of like going under the ground and like moving to a new location. So like, you know, because we want to lead, but it's clear that Marvel rivals will be what brought a lot of people to this. So like we want to talk to that stuff, too.

[00:29:20] I mean, my I feel like my greatest the greatest compliment would be if Jeff readers who have never played the Marvel rivals game read this and think it's a great Jeff adventure. And if people who love Jeff from Marvel rivals but don't really read comics, if they read it and they're like, oh, OK, that is fun and interesting and not maybe what I expected from a Jeff Marvel rivals.

[00:29:45] Maybe there's some other stuff around here, Jeff or otherwise, that I can read like that's the biggest win, I think, if you can get that. We're always, you know, our medium is so trod upon, like you're always trying to convert people over to it. But we want some of that other media money, man. Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, I I talk until I'm blue in the face on here and people are probably sick of me doing so about how we can engage the next generation of readers.

[00:30:14] And this a lot of them coming from rivals and getting into Jeff or seeing a friend that's got a really cute shark shirt, you know, playground or what have you. Is that is that what you're seeing or hearing is is the experience of a lot of those? It's more kids who are into Jeff or is it a broad range? I'm very reclusive, so it's yeah, I don't encounter a lot of it organically in the world. But there has been definite uptick of people like sending me things.

[00:30:42] My partner just sent me something he saw in someone's car the other day that was like a Jeff thing. Oh, wow. Yeah. So there's like a lot of that kind of stuff. I think, you know, I think Jeff was very kids motivated, but I don't know if the Marvel rivals has adjusted that at all, because I feel like it's more adults probably. I mean, I'm sure kids are also playing it, but it just seems like they were already going to be exposed to Jeff if they read comics. And maybe these adults never would have been except for through this game.

[00:31:11] So I don't know how much I don't know how much it'll change as far as audience goes. I do know that I had a bunch of retailers tell me when I think it was when the first print collection had come out and they were like, listen, I don't know what Marvel's doing over there, but tell them to give me more of these because I can sell these all day long. And I was like, yes, please tell them yourself. They're not going to listen to me. They just think I want more work. So, you know, I think it's pretty cool that that's happened, I think.

[00:31:39] Like, but it's also like, here's a here's a fun story. That's a good example of the spread of Jeff. And this has never happened for anything I've written before. My brother called me really late the other couple weeks ago, weeks ago. Excuse me, like midnight or something on a weekday. And he was talking to two. I don't know if they I was unclear if they were his actual friends or if they were just people he works in a bar and a restaurant.

[00:32:08] So they might have just been people that he sort of knows. And they were clearly drunk and they were on the phone with me because they didn't believe him that I created Jeff the land shark co-created Jeff the land shark. And they really it took all it was a whole drug hilarious conversation of me going. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And that's the first time that's ever happened.

[00:32:29] And pretty fun, pretty a pretty surreal moment to realize that something you've made is really like gone beyond containment, you know. But it's been but it's been like that this whole year has been weird because absolutely Wonder Woman. And it's Jeff being completely different things and sort of both breaking open at the same time. I mean, they're both by far the most popular things I've ever done.

[00:32:58] And so to have them happening and hitting at the same time is such a weird experience. Yeah. Deeply grateful, but it's bizarre. I bet. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to picture the trophy of what that looks like sitting next to the Eisners. You know, do you put at the bottom drunks called me at midnight and there's kind of half tipping over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess we should have known when I mean, just been he's only been alive.

[00:33:25] What since twenty team was the first publication. So it's been alive for like seven years. He's been nominated for two Eisners has won one. And drunk people have called me in the middle of night to confirm I really mean, I mean, it's a weird it's a weird fun thing. You've made it. Is that what it's telling you? I guess I'd like I'd like to buy a small house. Could Jeff do that for me? That would be nice. Well, we're going to do our best to help you sell some books here. I mean, I can tell you that.

[00:33:55] Well, in the in the news series, as is Jeff's way, he manages to suck in half the Marvel universe into his orbit. And I mean, I'm in no way surprised, given you that he's going to meet Rogue on his travels. So what can you tell us about where he might be going? So he's traveling. He's basically chasing this thing that's got his shadow shadow demon.

[00:34:19] And it's I don't think I could say it's a little it's a little nebulous of where they're going, why they're going as that sort of part of the mystery. But in some of the locations, like he runs into Deadpool in issue one and he he'll run into Groot and Rocket in issue two. And then Rogue and Gambit will appear in issue two as well. They're also in issue three.

[00:34:46] And then I think they revealed a cover that shows Wolverine and Psylocke. So we'll be doing some of that. Luna Snow will also be in that issue. I'm hoping Elsa and Gwenpool are going to show up and then we'll have some magicians. We start in the Sanctum Sanctorum. And so we'll sort of come back to the Sanctum Sanctorum and some magicians will be there. I hope it's going to be Scarlet Witch, Doctor Voodoo and Magic. But we'll see. It's it's turning out really fun, though.

[00:35:15] It's playing with the form. Is really interesting, like what Jeff could do and what he can't do. I you know, I think I said that we'll get to learn what his language is because Rocket basically puts a translator like a universal translator on him. So we've got so we've got like fun stuff like that that we're exploring that will hopefully scratch the surface of Jeff a little bit.

[00:35:41] And and but also like be the thing people have always loved about him. Yeah. Yeah. That can always be tricky because it's sound. The solicits even talk about some new powers for Jeff. And obviously we don't want to get into that and give away spoilers and stuff. But it feels like the ground zero for the evolution, the next evolution of Jeff. Yeah. Well, I mean, I wouldn't expect people to think.

[00:36:07] You're going to have new powers, but we've just found ways to play with these things so that I hope it will feel. You know, that like I said, the ideal is that people reading Jeff really just see it as his great, most largest adventure yet. And people that had read Marvel who played Marvel rivals have. Will get it and be interested in it, but maybe have it not be exactly what they expected.

[00:36:36] Like, it's not a Marvel rivals game like it doesn't feel like that in that respect. It just feels like a Marvel comic that leans into that. But. I think the super win there is if we can also influence the game in like a positive way, if we can show some things that the game is then like, oh, yeah, we should do that. Like they've got the game. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:01] The game has already showed they're interested in, you know, what these things are like, you know, they they they put they put him in that pink parka, which is basically from the strip. And like with a giant shark snowman from the strip, you know, so like they clearly love the work and are inspired by it. And so if we can inspire back in that like cyclical loop, I think it's really fun. Like as long as we don't become a thing that's like eating itself. I think it's fun as long as we're.

[00:37:29] Make sure to look outside ourselves, too. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, hey, it's money and money helps you pay artists for more indie projects, which I'm inherently invested in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you've got a ton of titles dropping right now, and I don't want to keep you all day, but I did want to touch on Absolute Wonder Woman, which I know you've probably talked about to death. But I do routinely check and see if anybody has any burning questions on our Discord server.

[00:37:57] And CK and I became friends when they were editing a crowdfunding disability focused anthology. And as we're both from the community, this one kind of felt personally relevant. So CK wanted to know if there were any further plans to explore a disability side of Wonder Woman in the series, possibly through a flashback because we know she's already essentially gotten the arm back.

[00:38:19] It was just powerful as somebody from that community to see somebody willing to take essentially that on as a sacrifice for everybody else. So I'm glad that that lands because that's certainly the intention of it. I would say that there's sort of twofold, and that's the big one. The other one is just sort of that a lot of times magic, hey, there's consequences for magic.

[00:38:43] It gets said all the time, but it often really gets like sort of brushed under the rug, like, oh, for someone else maybe, but not for our main character. And so, like, I really wanted to bring that home. But I'm hyper aware of the fact that having that replacing your arm with a magical arm that seems to do the same thing that your arm does is it's sort of like it could be seen as sort of fake representation. And I get that. I think I think I'm fine with that.

[00:39:11] I think we wouldn't have taken this path if I felt insecure about that. Like, there's nothing I can really do about it. Like, she still needs to be Wonder Woman in the world. And I felt like this was the closest I could get that was going to do what we needed her to do and also be able to say something about this and to sort of start opening the door to it. So I, you know, I'm aware that maybe not everyone's in love with it. I think that I hope that it's well-intentioned.

[00:39:41] I also think that it will never be something that goes away. Okay. It's designed in part one of many functions of her arm having been cut off is that sometimes it will play a part in the story. Like, if she's I mean, imagine her fighting someone who or in a realm where there's no magic or in a space where there's no magic and she suddenly doesn't have an arm. Like, those are things that will come up. Okay. Those are things that I planned to have come up at least.

[00:40:11] So it's not like we saw this and then we're never going to deal with it again. It will be an ongoing part of her struggle and her to deal with as a positive and a negative in her life. I think that's part of it for her. Like, you know, it disappointed me a little bit. Like, listen, the response to the story overall, Absolute Wonder Woman has been just blown my mind. It's been so incredible.

[00:40:34] I was slightly disappointed that some people took her cutting off her arm as an act of love for Steve, which is absurd. I mean, I mean, I'm not saying she doesn't love him. She does. But it's her love for humanity. It's her love for doing what's right. It's her love for writing wrong. It's not a romantic love for Steve, whether that's in their future or not. I don't I haven't even decided.

[00:41:02] I I sort of see her more with someone else, probably. But she shouldn't be with anyone yet. She's been out of hell for five minutes. Like, it's not a romantic love. That's not the story we're telling right now. It's not even on the radar. And I find it a little sad that I mean, listen, everyone gets what they want from the comic. And I'm not here to police how anyone processes it.

[00:41:27] If you love Wonder Woman and you think her and Steve are the perfect couple and they should be together and she cut her arm off because she loves him so much. That's fine. You can you can take that take. That's fine. I'm not here to get in your way. But I do find that to be a very, like, insular, sad, limiting take to what I'm trying to do, which we're all trying to do, I think, with the book, which is much bigger than that. But that's OK. That's I'm OK with that take.

[00:41:57] Like, that's fine that that everyone gets to read something else for it. Like, I I think that. I don't know who said it, but it's been said a lot lately or maybe I just take it more to heart lately. But, you know, the the story becomes yours once you read it, like you bring your own stuff to it. And that's not in my control, nor should it be. So but yeah, expect this to continue coming up.

[00:42:23] And in fact, it's it's not in any way a primary reason for it. But one function of the situation with her arm is that we did make her super flexible and powerful in certain ways. And it's good just from a narrative strength standpoint to also build in weaknesses. There are ways in which these things that make her so powerful also make her vulnerable. And that's true for anyone. And so we want to talk about that stuff, too.

[00:42:53] Yeah, I mean, that's that that was the turning point for me. I don't I don't mind being on here and saying and I initially didn't connect a whole lot with the series. And I trusted trusted you trusted your vision. I knew if I stuck with it, I would have whatever that light bulb moment was where I was like, aha. Now it's for me. Yeah. And I did. And and really the arm was the big turning point because I saw myself very much as a mirror for Diana in terms of sacrifice.

[00:43:21] So that makes me so happy. Thank you. You're right. Thank you. When so when you were conceptualizing her as a hero, why was sacrifice an appealing direction to take her in? Why did you want to kind of use that nugget? Well, I think I think sacrifice and compassion are and love are sort of Diana's four things that make her so special and so who she is.

[00:43:48] Um, so but showing the sacrifice, I think the specificity of the sacrifice came from the magic, I think more than anything else. It's that and then the extreme of it just came from this world. We're setting up a world where we're saying this world is harder. This world is rougher. This world you were raised in the underworld instead of on paradise. Like, so we have to dial some things up if Steve's going to land on the beach in the underworld.

[00:44:16] Well, then how are we going to get him out of there and be it shouldn't be easy because if it is Diana would just so how are we going to solve these story questions and have them really have resonance and matter. And listen, we were given a beautiful gift of a lot of lead time so we could build it all appropriately and really make sure it worked. We were also given the perfect scenario, which is if you have a good idea, which by this point we had a good idea, you're rebuilding a character.

[00:44:46] You've got a lot of freedom, especially with how much freedom Scott gave us and like cleared the way for us to do what we wanted to do and what we felt was right. But you have all the benefits, right? Because you're starting with a clean slate. You're getting to remake it and you're really getting to think through. You have to also, but it's a privilege to think through all those decisions. You also have the huge benefit of all the great stories that came before that you don't have to use, but they are sitting there and a lot of them are really good.

[00:45:14] And a lot of them would be even more fun if you twist the thing on them and make it this different thing. And so you really as long as you've got a solid idea, which right after I almost quit the book, I realized we had. And once you're there, you just have all the benefits. So it's made Absolute Wonder Woman like really the most freeing, joyous, boldest takes I've ever been able to do because all those things just.

[00:45:42] It was like everything clicking into place and opening and then you can just see it, you know, and you just run through before anyone has a chance to close the gate. Sure. So, yeah, we got really lucky. But I think that it's bearing out. It's also completely changed the way I've thought about all my comics and how to do them and what should go into them.

[00:46:07] I mean, like, you know, I've currently it's very frustrating to write Birds of Prey at the same time that I'm writing Absolute Wonder Woman because and I know there are a lot of fans out there. I see you guys. I see you if you love it and you're talking about it. Thank you. I appreciate it. But if the signal to noise ratio for, you know, Absolute Wonder Woman versus Birds of Prey, I mean, it's like Birds of Prey barely exists.

[00:46:31] And that's hard for me because I'm writing it every month, pouring my stupid little heart into it, trying to make people care. And I know there are people who care, but when you've got people caring at the level that they're caring about Absolute Wonder Woman, it's a weird dichotomy where you're like, but they love this thing I'm doing. Why can't I make them love this one, too? You know, it's like you're trying to jam this audience into this other hole and they just won't go in there. And you're like, but I'm doing it over there, too. I'm trying to do it.

[00:46:58] And it's really made me think about my books and how I process them and what I bring to them and like how much how much they benefit from doing more faster earlier, which has always been a weakness for me, particularly since the pandemic. It's been troubling. But like I think I'm seeing the proof is in the pudding on Absolute Wonder Woman.

[00:47:19] I mean, you're not always given those gifts that all sort of line up together to make a easier road, but you can still try to take those lessons you're learning and apply them, you know. So I'm trying my best. It works sometimes and not. I'm sure it is. Sometimes others. Super challenging because you not only have that, but you have Jeff and then you have the others that you have Black Cloak. Like I just finished up volume two of Black Cloak because it came out recently as well.

[00:47:47] I mean, Black Cloak is even more frustrating. I mean, it's hard. It's really hard to be like all these ideals you guys are so excited about me talking about over in Wonder Woman. Like, hey, we're doing that over on a book called Black Cloak and none of you are reading it. It's driving me crazy. And if only like 20% of this audience, not even 20% of the Absolute Wonder Woman audience would try Black Cloak, Meredith and I could do it for a year, for two years. It would be so great.

[00:48:17] And so it's hard. It's hard to not. It's hard to feel like you're connected to something powerful, but you're not in control of it because you can't make it function the way you want completely, you know? But yeah, it's been very hard. And it's the same thing has been hard with Mattia and Nicole because Mattia did two issues of Wonder Woman. Many, many people are saying issue seven is one of their favorite people saying it's their favorite Wonder Woman comic they've ever read.

[00:48:45] I saw someone the other day say it was their favorite comic they'd ever read. Period. All comics. What an incredible. It's got a Conan vibe. What an incredible compliment. And yet Mattia and I did this incredible miniseries called The Cole and we basically can't afford to do more because hard to sell comic books. So it's very hard to like, and you also feel like a dick for complaining about that. Oh, I have all this success in my hands. Give me more, you know? But as a creator, it's just confusing.

[00:49:14] Like, you're like, how did I make it magical over here? And everyone gets it. But like, even though I sprinkled all the same magic over here, it didn't work. You know? Yeah. It's the same way that people talk to bring it back to Jeff. You know, people are like, oh, don't you wish you created Jeff just for you? You and Great Hero. And I'm like, well, yes, obviously. But also, who's to say? Like, it's a giant. You couldn't leverage it. Yeah, I could never. We could have never leveraged it. What? Like, maybe it would be. But, I mean, there are exceptions, right?

[00:49:45] You know, could Raina Telmiger have made a Jeff for the kids that she owned who was a super runaway? Sure. That dog, what's the one? Dog policeman? Whatever that is. Like, there are all these things that break through. But, you know, they're standing on the carcasses of millions of things that were, if lucky, a moderate success. You know? So, it's just a weird space to live in.

[00:50:14] It's a weird time to be living in it. It's strange. It's surreal. It really is. It really is. Well, I don't want to keep you all day. I like to wrap up my episodes now with a shout-out because 2025 is a dumpster fire. And I like to inject a little positivity into people's lives where I can. So, this is someone who did a solid for you or something that inspired you recently. I'll go first to give you a moment to think about it.

[00:50:43] I watched a video on YouTube the other night, as I do typically before bed. And this was the Snowy Owls of Logan Airport by Anna Miller Multimedia. It's about 10 minutes long. I had no idea that snowy owls like to frequent airports. It doesn't make sense in my head that an animal with a few hearing would want to be around jet engines. Yeah, yeah. But it was a really nice little snapshot because I have a background. One of my degrees is in environmental science.

[00:51:12] So, conservation that's still going on. I'm like, I want to clap just like, oh, this is amazing. We're still doing these kinds of things. Great. But it was just a nice little nugget of joy that I highly recommend. That's really good. I mean, I think the thing I'm thinking, but I can't tie it. I can't tie it to anyone specifically. That's okay. But I just, I was, I think this is what I'm going to say mine is.

[00:51:39] I can't credit anyone except for my own doom scrolling with it. But it's nice when doom scrolling leads you somewhere else these days, I guess. Indeed. I was on Blue Sky. It might have been Twitter, but I don't post on Twitter. I just sometimes scan it. I think it was Blue Sky. And I came across this guy's, his animation that he'd done for his like senior project or something. And it was like 14 minutes long. And I was like, ah, I'm not going to watch that. And then I, but I was like, yeah, but it looks so good.

[00:52:08] And I was like, and I don't want to write this script. So, okay, let's write it. Let's watch it. So I started watching it and it was absolutely just excellent. Here, let me find it so I can at least say what it was. But more importantly, it took me down a rabbit hole of animations. And I ended up watching like 10 that day, like just short animations.

[00:52:32] And yeah, almost every single one brought me to tears, either happy tears or tragic tears, usually some fateful combination of both. And it was all just so moving and powerful. And it just reminded me all the people out there. Like, it's very easy to feel like people are just very bad now and that they want AI to make everything for them.

[00:52:58] And they don't even want to think like, even in like you're studying, you went to college to study a thing and now you don't even want to know about it. You just want to cheat? Like, I don't get it. It breaks my brain a lot. And watching these animations, I was like, these people, they're brilliant. They have these brilliant little creative minds and they're just following them and creating this beautiful stuff, this beautiful work. So inspiring, so moving.

[00:53:28] And like, it just, I was just overcome with what a radical idea it was to just continue making beautiful work, even if nobody even fucking sees it, you know? Yeah. I'm going to send you, I can find, I made the mistake of turning off. I've become so paranoid about everything tracking me that I turned off like my YouTube history, which was a horrible mistake because where do you need it more than YouTube so you can find that thing that you love that you now can't find. So I'll find it and I'll send you the link.

[00:53:58] But they were just, it was just a great reminder. That was also, I don't know, this is slightly a segue, but did you watch Flow? That animated? I have not. You should watch it. It's, I found it pretty upsetting. There's a, there's an element to it that's the entire plot really. That's very upsetting, like through the whole thing.

[00:54:24] And I was like, this is beautiful and this is important, but it's just so stressful. And let me tell you what, it took me on such an emotional journey that I didn't really expect because I was so caught up in, oh, it's beautiful and it's poignant and it's all these things. But boy, I wish this one element wasn't so stressful. And for me, at least, that element, when it resolves and sort of blossoms, it's so worth it.

[00:54:52] And so much more powerful a narrative as a result. They could have really made the viewing experience as you're watching it sort of more pleasant for more time. But it would have completely undercut all that revelation at the end and that journey that it takes you on. And it was an incredible reminder of don't, your job as a writer, as a creator, is not to give people what they want. It's to give people what they don't even know they need.

[00:55:20] And I think that's something we always need to strive for. And those animations that I watched felt more like people just purely creating from their soul, which I don't even really know that I know how to do that anymore. It's so driven on a marketplace where it needs to be a product that I need to sell. And I suspect that's probably what I really responded to in those animations, where they didn't feel like they were made for a market.

[00:55:48] They felt like pure artistry was pouring out of your veins, you know. It was powerful stuff. And a good reminder of what's worth saving in humanity, right? Yeah, exactly. And it also informs you as a writer. And that's the thing that, I mean, you might feel like you're going down a rabbit hole. And I'm sure sometimes editors are like, Kelly, come on, we need the script now. But all those things do inform you. And I think it's important to take the time. I guess this is my message, right?

[00:56:17] To take the time in what can feel like a very overwhelming world that we live in to remind yourself that there is joy. There are people making real things, and that's cool. And letting that in is just so critical these days. To just maintain your sanity. Yeah. Yeah. And just to find something that reminds you what it's all for, you know? Yeah.

[00:56:42] I think that's, again, I spend so much time being angry at humanity these days for all our really disgusting things about us. But we're equally filled with beauty and wonder and hope and real worthy things that make humanity worth it if we can just get through it, man. Survive. Yeah. Survive. That too. That too. Yeah. All right. Well, circling back to Jeff.

[00:57:11] Jeff the Landshark is hitting stores in the middle of June. And believe me, you better call your shop based upon what I've seen if you haven't pre-ordered it because the hype train is rolling people. There are a lot of people that are really, really into this book, I think, for good reasons. Don't miss out. I know you don't get out to many cons, so let's push the website because there are some great sign things that you have on there. And the sheer volume when I looked of Absolute Wonder Woman covers was absolutely astounding. It's so wild.

[00:57:42] So what do you got to make your little money so we can do more indie projects? So the Substack is 1979Semifinalist.Substack.com. That's the best way to keep in touch with me. Sign up for the free newsletter. There's also a paid version, which, you know, please and thank you. But it's just the best way to keep in touch, especially with the sort of ever-shifting social media. I am still on Blue Sky under Kelly Thompson.

[00:58:11] And the website is 1979Semifinalist.com. Or something. Sorry, it's weird. No, I'll put a link in the show notes so people don't have to try to write it down or anything. And I'll make it easy that way. It's 1979Semifinalist.com.store, which I'm sure you can imagine is not what I thought I was getting when I was signing up for that.

[00:58:41] It's a rookie mistake there. But it's worked out okay. It's worked out fine. It's worked out fine. Plenty of orders to keep me busy. My personal email is still attached to what I went by on the road. So, I mean, we will never escape those things that we did when we were younger. So, and there are still people in the world that would call me Mako and have no clue that my name is actually Byron. That's wild. That's wild.

[00:59:08] And if anybody thinks I'm bullshitting about liking sharks or something like that, here's my piece of heaven. I also, I dropped that link for you, but the guy's name that sent me down the animation spiral was Philip Diviak. And the short was called Sounds Between the Crowns. And it was really inspirational and beautiful. And everyone should watch it. I'll put a link so they can. All right.

[00:59:37] Well, Kelly, thank you for hanging out with me again. It's always a pleasure to catch up. It's been a lot of fun. Thanks so much, Byron. Bye. Bye. Of course. This is Byron O'Neill on behalf of all of us at Comic Book Yeti. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time. Take care, everybody. This is Byron O'Neill, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner, brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly, how we can improve.

[01:00:07] Thanks for listening.