Milton Lawson talks Orson Welles: Warrior of the Worlds

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti

[00:00:07] So without further ado, let's get on to the interview

[00:00:11] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner podcast

[00:00:15] I'm one of your hosts Jimmy Gasparo, and I have a returning guest. That's right

[00:00:19] Someone had so much fun the first time they came and talked to me. They wanted to come back

[00:00:24] So that's always exciting

[00:00:27] But we're in for a real treat because we have Milton Lawson here and Milton is gonna come on and talk about

[00:00:33] the trade collection of Orson Welles, Warrior of the Worlds

[00:00:40] Milton came on if you listen to that podcast

[00:00:42] I'm not sure exactly when it was it seems like a lifetime ago, but he came on to talk about the first issue. I was

[00:00:50] enthralled by it

[00:00:52] I thought it was a fantastic concept and if I thought the first issue was a little funky and a little wacky

[00:01:01] The rest of the series went into totally unexpected territory. At certain times I felt like I needed

[00:01:09] to brush up on my English literature and my film knowledge

[00:01:15] But I say that as a as a as a good thing

[00:01:18] I absolutely thought that there is nothing like this comic that I can think of in recent memory that tackles kind of all these different topics and

[00:01:27] The last couple of issues. I mean it just goes completely off the rails and like such a great way

[00:01:34] It's fantastic. It's fantastic. I can't wait to talk to Milton about it

[00:01:38] But please please welcome to the podcast Milton Lawson Milton. How you doing tonight? Hey Jimmy?

[00:01:43] Thank you so much for having me back and I had such a great time the last time we talked

[00:01:48] Speaking of going off the rails, we might have gone off the rails a couple of times during that interview as well

[00:01:54] but I really appreciate you having me back on and I'm glad you got a

[00:01:58] chance to go further in the the Wellesian journey there

[00:02:03] Yeah, no, I appreciate you sending along like the the the the entirety of it

[00:02:09] And I'm almost through all of it like we talked about before we started recording that you had sent it over and

[00:02:15] I got through most of it. I think I have like 15 pages to go so I can't wait to like see how it all wraps up but I

[00:02:22] mean

[00:02:24] There were so many

[00:02:25] Unexpected turns in this and that's really what I

[00:02:29] But I love about it one of the things I just love about comics

[00:02:32] Especially and I was just having a conversation with someone the other day

[00:02:35] Especially when you get a comic that you feel like cannot be done as

[00:02:39] Well in any other medium not that something like couldn't be adapted

[00:02:43] But but just you feel like wow, there's there's such a way in the telling of this that that a comic is just

[00:02:50] perfect for this and this journey of Orson Welles warrior of the world starts off that

[00:02:58] The the the the radio play

[00:03:02] War of the worlds was actually real Orson Welles is an undercover agent

[00:03:08] For this secret, you know clandestine agency the three PA and I mean it just goes in such wild wild places

[00:03:17] I just I was fascinated by it. I thoroughly enjoyed it

[00:03:21] And there's some characters that pop up in this that I was just like how is he gonna connect these and

[00:03:28] I mean, I just thoroughly enjoyed it

[00:03:32] Yeah, and love the artwork in it. I mean just love it

[00:03:36] Well, thank you so much. Yeah, the artwork is incredible Eric Whalen is the artist on the book

[00:03:40] And I'm glad you mentioned that it really fits the comics medium

[00:03:44] I pushed Eric

[00:03:47] in some crazy with some crazy asked and

[00:03:52] He he delivered on all of them

[00:03:55] There's there's a there's a number of double-page spreads that you know go way out there and

[00:04:03] When I you know when I put them down in the script I

[00:04:06] Had an idea of what I thought they might be I had a hope that they that somehow some mad genius could

[00:04:13] Make it happen and every time Eric did

[00:04:17] Especially, I mean I you know if folks listen to the first episode and checked out issue one or haven't checked out anything yet

[00:04:23] I don't want to like totally spoil anything

[00:04:26] But it's hard not to talk about some of the stuff in this book without giving like some things away

[00:04:31] So I'll try and carefully word some of the stuff. I want to touch on but there is a

[00:04:38] Technological device like an orb that plays a part in this and there are scenes that kind of take place

[00:04:46] You know within the orb world, I guess

[00:04:49] They're they're so different the the paneling is different the colors like there's like a rainbow portion to kind of describe

[00:04:57] You know certain things they tend to be

[00:05:01] It's it's just so different than how the book opens

[00:05:05] I every time we were in that space

[00:05:08] I just thought it was something new and different and fun and exciting and I just I love that as a device and

[00:05:15] I loved how

[00:05:17] How Eric drew it I loved how it looked yeah, there were a few there were a few spots where I

[00:05:26] You know you know for lack of a better comparison we've got a little bit of a TARDIS type of thing happening here and

[00:05:34] You know everybody knows all the dimensions and patterns of the TARDIS, but you know that's through years and years of

[00:05:41] trial and error and this is our one time to do this in this one book so

[00:05:46] There were a couple of moments in particular where

[00:05:52] We're conveying a

[00:05:54] little bit of a difficult

[00:05:57] mixture of realities and

[00:06:00] And what you're seeing and what your frame of reference is

[00:06:05] Is is important just from a pure plot point of view but also from an aesthetic visual point of view and

[00:06:14] There were a couple of times where I didn't know how to solve the problem and Eric just

[00:06:20] Completely nailed it

[00:06:22] With his art so thank you again Eric

[00:06:25] Yeah, and I mean you're you know

[00:06:28] You're talking about a story that has

[00:06:30] Orson Welles as this main character who is

[00:06:34] Trying to protect the earth fighting in a galactic civil war. There are alien civilizations involved there

[00:06:41] There are so many different elements from chapter to chapter that

[00:06:46] All kind of like weave together it jumps around in time

[00:06:50] I mean they use the color in this book to denote whether or not we're in the past or like the different alien worlds

[00:06:56] I mean, it's just a it's a gorgeous book to look at and and behold which is I

[00:07:03] Just love all those different elements like huge again. You just think like

[00:07:08] Comics really is such like a perfect medium for this for this type of story

[00:07:14] But I wanted to ask you know

[00:07:16] I know we talked a little bit about like kind of when we with issue one where this idea came from and I remember from that interview

[00:07:22] You hinted at some of the stuff that we would see in

[00:07:25] you know in the later issues, but I

[00:07:30] Think we touched on it a little bit that first

[00:07:33] Interview but looking at you know having read all of it, but you know 15 pages

[00:07:39] What was it like plotting this out? I mean like did you I just envision you like in

[00:07:44] a room, you know like that

[00:07:47] Gif of Charlie day from it's always sunny

[00:07:51] Things up on the wall and things are connected by yarn

[00:07:55] You know, I'm glad that it comes off feeling that way because the honest truth of it is is a lot more mundane

[00:08:02] um

[00:08:03] You know that the truth of it is is you know, I have this lifelong

[00:08:10] Obsession with Orson Welles

[00:08:12] the person the filmmaker the actor

[00:08:16] and

[00:08:18] Once the premise presented itself to me then I knew that I was going to base

[00:08:28] chapters off of

[00:08:31] Either moments from his life or more often than not a specific film from his filmography

[00:08:38] and

[00:08:39] So those became like constellation points in the sky for me

[00:08:43] And I'm really glad that you say that these things feel unexpected

[00:08:47] Because from my point of view, they were kind of inevitable that you know, I have my you know

[00:08:52] dozen favorite Orson Welles films and

[00:08:55] Through the course of the development of this project the size of it accordion

[00:09:01] small and big multiple times and so the overall arc of all the plots

[00:09:08] Kind of changed a few times, but what was consistent was that you know

[00:09:13] my love of those specific

[00:09:16] Reference points were always there and so to me it was almost kind of inevitable that the story was gonna go like

[00:09:22] Okay, if I got a worse Welles fighting aliens

[00:09:25] We're gonna have to have you know this kind of a planet

[00:09:29] we're gonna have to have this kind of a moment and

[00:09:34] The broad arc of his career as this secret agent

[00:09:41] I

[00:09:42] Decided to have it mirror his career as a filmmaker

[00:09:46] So I sort of had that spine of how the whole thing would progress

[00:09:52] Sort of dictated from me from the get-go. So it kind of almost wrote itself sometimes

[00:10:00] Yeah, I mean I maybe it's just my like

[00:10:04] Lack of knowledge in terms of like Orson Welles as a filmmaker. I'm certainly familiar with some Orson Welles films

[00:10:12] I've seen my fair share. There's a list now of several more. I want to see so maybe

[00:10:18] You know, maybe if I had more of that background

[00:10:22] I mean I feel like there would be Easter eggs or things in this that I would

[00:10:26] Instantly like recognize if I had if I knew more of that Orson Welles film language

[00:10:31] But even without it just as somebody who loves comics and loves film I

[00:10:39] Certainly appreciated it and I just thoroughly enjoyed it like I wanted to know more about what those connections were

[00:10:46] You know, especially with some of the films that I maybe haven't seen in a while or only tangentially

[00:10:51] Familiar with when you get into like the later chapters and you're referencing the magnificent Ambersons and the other side of the wind

[00:11:00] Yeah, and you know, that's what I'm here for I'm here to give you more homework

[00:11:06] No, I mean there's a

[00:11:09] Certain playwright that she was up at one point and I was like fascinated by that and like this

[00:11:15] You know just on and that was kind of bullshit, right? I mean I

[00:11:18] Once the idea I had to sort of I once I had the idea. I couldn't go away from it

[00:11:24] Like it had to happen, you know, yeah

[00:11:27] well, you know, but though this this but this like

[00:11:31] This idea though and you know when we meet this one alien species earlier on and you're kind of

[00:11:37] You know, it feels like you're you're drilling into this concept of the importance of

[00:11:43] Like like imagination the ability to like envision these things and the ability to use your imagination your words your gifts

[00:11:52] to create art

[00:11:55] Which you know, I think that we have a very different scenarios

[00:11:58] We take that idea and you go towards the end of the book and we see

[00:12:02] I think it's denormin and what the norman becomes which seems very different from this idea of

[00:12:10] Creating art in a way

[00:12:12] Yeah, I just I love those scenes I

[00:12:16] And I thought Eric did like such a great job. There's one in particular where I

[00:12:23] think it's

[00:12:25] It it it leads from the scene and like the end of the tavern scene and then there's like a page with just

[00:12:32] Orson and and Paula and like he has the orb

[00:12:36] And

[00:12:38] It's just there's this like a lot of black in the page

[00:12:41] But it looks like I guess a sunrise or or maybe sunset and it's these reds and purple

[00:12:48] clouds and like a blue background

[00:12:50] With Orson and Paula in front of it and it's just I don't know if you remember the exact page in this, you know

[00:12:55] 200 oh, I don't mean to put your road, but it was just it's just it's so beautiful and I

[00:13:01] Just was immersed in it

[00:13:03] Yeah, I just thought that like stuff like that is just great. You don't you don't see that like

[00:13:09] You feel like you're reading something deeper. I don't mind getting homework

[00:13:13] I don't mind getting something that makes me want to go out and see something else

[00:13:16] I mean, I don't mind homework when it doesn't feel like homework when I feel like I'm really

[00:13:22] Reading a book that somebody has taken a lot of time and attention into not just the artist and all the work that they put

[00:13:27] In it but the writer and it's given me a story that is so unexpected

[00:13:31] And it it you know, it feels like you're talking about all these wild things

[00:13:36] But really you're digging deep into the life of one of our greatest

[00:13:42] filmmakers who was a by all accounts a complicated person

[00:13:47] And you're kind of showing these different facets of their life. Ah, yeah, I just it's just I thought it was wonderful

[00:13:54] I mean just really wonderful. Thank you. Thank you

[00:13:58] Um

[00:14:00] I mean but like when you when you got into the later books and you like started wanted to introduce this character of

[00:14:07] It's it is denormin right Harry denormin. Yes. Yeah, so like Harry denormin very that is his name

[00:14:15] So, um any rumors to the contrary or

[00:14:20] fall

[00:14:21] Well, when you get into this character, I know I'm kind of being vague about it listeners are like

[00:14:25] What are you talking about? Well, listeners you're gonna have to read it. Just trust me on this one

[00:14:29] But um, we introduced a character like that like was that something that you he's a very big he is

[00:14:36] When you introduce a character like that who is this

[00:14:40] Force, you know juxtaposed to Orson Welles and the antagonist in these later issues

[00:14:48] Was that something that was planned all along where did you feel like having to bring in a character like that was?

[00:14:54] You know inevitable was that something that you found along the way as you were writing it?

[00:14:58] This was actually something

[00:15:01] That I can also be a little bit of a fan of

[00:15:04] Because this was one of the bigger points of feedback. I got from one of my

[00:15:10] trusted writing friends

[00:15:13] um

[00:15:15] In initial drafts, they're kind of two primary antagonists in the story

[00:15:21] and

[00:15:23] The one that's more

[00:15:26] Historically accurate and more historically true to the actual Orson Welles story

[00:15:31] is in the book and

[00:15:34] Is someone that I personally have a good amount of animosity towards but um,

[00:15:41] I just don't think he's a big enough of a bad

[00:15:45] Uh for the stakes of the story as it developed and a friend of mine suggested going more universal

[00:15:52] And the more universal choice was what became this Harry Denormand

[00:15:57] character and

[00:15:59] Thankfully, it seems like a perfectly organic natural

[00:16:03] evolution of what was started

[00:16:06] um, but that's just um

[00:16:08] That's just some theft by me

[00:16:11] Really good

[00:16:13] But is the is the is the subtext of this like your

[00:16:18] um

[00:16:20] I guess you you're

[00:16:22] Is this a little bit of like you coming through in terms of your overarching like thought about film?

[00:16:28] Uh, sure

[00:16:32] Or maybe maybe the subtext is text

[00:16:35] Yeah, well it's a little bit both. I mean

[00:16:37] the

[00:16:39] The basic parameters here is you know

[00:16:42] I I root for underdogs when I watch sports. So I'm usually

[00:16:46] disappointed

[00:16:49] And the

[00:16:51] The key story

[00:16:54] Of Orson Welles as a filmmaker

[00:16:56] If if you're only going to take one, uh chapter from his

[00:17:01] um

[00:17:02] Long history as a filmmaker

[00:17:04] Was the

[00:17:08] Was the battle over citizen kain

[00:17:11] um and um

[00:17:14] The battle with his second film

[00:17:17] um, there was kind of a

[00:17:21] Like a um a casualty of the citizen kain war

[00:17:26] was uh

[00:17:29] The the subsequent basic murder of his second film

[00:17:33] His second film was sabotaged by the studio and literally cut

[00:17:39] The pieces while he was away in brazil

[00:17:43] Um, and it was because the studio just hated dealing with orson wells

[00:17:48] Because you know, he was this you know mad genius artist

[00:17:52] That they couldn't control and he got in trouble

[00:17:57] With the the Hearst empire

[00:17:59] by basing a film off of Hearst

[00:18:02] And um

[00:18:04] It it shook hollywood to its core

[00:18:07] um, there were I don't I don't know if you're aware of this but

[00:18:11] Um, there was a moment where the negative of citizen kain was

[00:18:15] potentially going to be

[00:18:17] Burnt by all of the studio had

[00:18:20] um to please

[00:18:22] um

[00:18:23] The Hearst empire they you know they they relied on the Hearst empire to advertise all of their films

[00:18:29] To do stories about their movie stars and here's this this crazy kid orson wells

[00:18:35] screwing up the entire industry with his

[00:18:37] Self-indulgent little art piece

[00:18:39] Um, and they were like well. Can you just pay us the cash money?

[00:18:43] For what the negative would would have cost you you know the entire budget of the film and we'll just burn this film

[00:18:50] um, so

[00:18:52] No, I never heard that that that titanic battle between an artist

[00:18:58] And the commercial engine that puts out the art

[00:19:01] um and the sort of imbalance there

[00:19:04] um is kind of

[00:19:07] You know a cause that I could rally around

[00:19:10] And whatever

[00:19:12] false wells does have as a

[00:19:14] As a man and as an artist

[00:19:17] On that one. I think it's pretty clear cut. He's

[00:19:20] You know, he's fighting the good fight. Yeah. I mean certainly

[00:19:23] um with

[00:19:25] drastic measures like you know

[00:19:28] To go to such lengths to destroy the film. Yeah. Yeah, I'd never heard that wow. Yeah, there's a movie on

[00:19:36] probably

[00:19:38] HBO max I think is called RKO 281

[00:19:42] and stars lea f schreiber and john malchovich

[00:19:46] playing orson wells and herman mankowitz

[00:19:50] And it's about the making of scissor and cane and that scene is is one of the pevillow

[00:19:56] Scenes in the film

[00:19:58] So yeah, I definitely recommend that one. Oh, okay

[00:20:01] Yeah, I mean I've heard of that. I haven't I haven't seen it though, but yeah, I'll add it more homework

[00:20:06] Just keep adding homework man. You've added more. Oh, let's go

[00:20:10] Let's go through all the I do I do like watching clips of like orson wells later in life when he is just

[00:20:17] There was no no one better than orson wells when he really had a target to go after

[00:20:21] Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was in dga f mode quite frequently

[00:20:27] absolutely, um

[00:20:30] And look but for listeners, I don't want them to think that you know

[00:20:33] Um, this isn't like an action pack

[00:20:36] You know graphic novel if they are going to get it not only are there scenes in

[00:20:42] You know spaceships fighting aliens that the

[00:20:47] aerial battle

[00:20:49] Is I mean phenomenal. I mean eric blew that out of the water

[00:20:54] I mean that there are just pages and pages of an aerial battle orson wells on the wing of a plane like flying through the air. I mean

[00:21:02] it

[00:21:04] It's like larger panels a couple inset ones. It's

[00:21:08] It had to be so difficult to try and like plot that out and it like

[00:21:13] No one panel or moment kind of get lost

[00:21:17] It just all flows well. It looks great. I love like the light bluish green, you know, of the sky

[00:21:24] And there's one panel. Yeah, just amazing. I mean it is it is like for

[00:21:32] Essentially a comic book that can also be read as like an allegory of like orson wells

[00:21:37] Friles with getting films made or his

[00:21:40] directorial style it is

[00:21:42] unbelievably like comic book

[00:21:44] action pack

[00:21:47] Yeah, I I've I've tried to I've tried to mix the drama and action

[00:21:51] In an equal measure. Yeah. Well it it's successful

[00:21:56] Um

[00:21:57] And I love how then it you know when we go to a new chapter we're back into like the past and the black and white of it all

[00:22:03] Um, I love the cast of characters that we meet

[00:22:07] um

[00:22:08] I mean some of the the chase scenes there's a scene where paula and is it gilbert

[00:22:13] Like lose orson for a bit and they're kind of on their own. We meet some other

[00:22:19] like, uh

[00:22:20] Rose and cranted to bring shakespeare back in rose and cranson gilden stern

[00:22:25] Uh are very interesting characters who I just thought were like phenomenal

[00:22:29] I'm glad they stuck around for as long as they did

[00:22:32] Oh, I'm glad you say that because I

[00:22:34] If there's ever anything more that comes out of this

[00:22:37] I would love to do like a little one-shot spin-off with those two characters

[00:22:41] Oh, no, I yeah take my money. Uh, I yeah, I would 100 percent

[00:22:47] be into reading like

[00:22:50] You know you could do

[00:22:52] Like something you could do like a little anthology that's like, you know five or six little stories about their adventures or

[00:22:59] Event as private detectives or other things other mysteries or capers that they've solved and I would sign up for it 100%

[00:23:07] Awesome, awesome wonderful characters very interesting skill set very much like them

[00:23:15] Yeah, they were a welcome addition to uh, you know to the team

[00:23:20] Yeah, weirdly enough. They were one of the first images that came to me

[00:23:25] And they don't appear until like almost halfway through the book. Yeah

[00:23:29] Huh

[00:23:30] Where were they were

[00:23:32] They something that occurred to you and then you weren't sure how you were going to use them and you had to find a place for them

[00:23:37] That's sort of how it worked out. I just had an image of them

[00:23:41] uh, I had uh

[00:23:43] gilden stern's main

[00:23:46] ability

[00:23:47] And an image of them

[00:23:49] Uh, that's not in the book and the moment doesn't occur in the plot

[00:23:53] but it's it's weird how just

[00:23:56] It's weird how certain ideas evolve

[00:23:59] You know, you just get this one strong image

[00:24:02] And then you don't know where to place it and then eventually the moment arrives

[00:24:08] For you for you to put them in

[00:24:09] Yeah, well, I mean that's I guess that's the good thing about dealing with like a galactic, you know

[00:24:15] A galactic war

[00:24:17] Alien species you could you have a lot to play with basically right? Yeah, and

[00:24:23] You you could come up with some interesting characters, which you know, you have and and erics just you know

[00:24:29] In terms of the designs are they're they're great

[00:24:32] whether or not they're friendly or

[00:24:36] Imposing foes

[00:24:39] You know, especially playing with the war the world stuff some of them have to like look familiar

[00:24:43] but they definitely have their own

[00:24:46] um

[00:24:47] You know their their own brand of uniqueness to them. Um

[00:24:52] Yeah, I mean there's

[00:24:54] There's just

[00:24:57] So many different things that I

[00:25:00] You know, I wasn't expecting

[00:25:03] Um

[00:25:05] Again, there's a sequence where they're at carnival

[00:25:09] In brazil, which is again so colorful so different than anything. You know, we we've seen before

[00:25:16] um

[00:25:18] And I just was

[00:25:20] Are you again? Is that something that you you wanted to show to kind of follow the pattern of of wells' life?

[00:25:27] Yeah

[00:25:29] Yeah, and I felt that it was it was fortuitous because it's it's such a pivotal moment in his filmmaking career

[00:25:36] And

[00:25:37] It takes place during this

[00:25:40] highly visual

[00:25:43] Uh moment

[00:25:45] So it's the perfect background do a little shit. Let's throw in some aliens too, you know

[00:25:50] And it just it just it just uh it fit nicely

[00:25:55] Oh, yeah, I mean the that whole

[00:25:57] See

[00:25:59] Where we are introduced to

[00:26:02] Uh denorman, I think that's where he comes in

[00:26:05] in uh

[00:26:07] In the brazil scene

[00:26:09] Yes, you know, and it kind of starts to track

[00:26:12] His life alongside tracking what you know wells is doing in brazil and you know, yeah, there's aliens. They're fighting aliens

[00:26:21] um

[00:26:22] It's just I mean

[00:26:25] And like where it all leads is like absolutely incredible like that whole ending scene

[00:26:33] um

[00:26:34] In in brazil, I mean to the end of that to the end of that chapter which there's you know

[00:26:41] What we've come to expect like a big battle and

[00:26:45] um

[00:26:48] Destruction of property of some very important well known property

[00:26:53] Um, it's it's just so surprising and

[00:26:56] I mean

[00:26:58] It's just amazing all the science fiction elements and story ideas that are in here that just feel

[00:27:04] Totally unique within this, you know setting like little things that we've seen before

[00:27:10] But maybe not used in in quite such a way to tell this story

[00:27:16] And I almost missed the golden opportunity there that the the ending scene that you're referring to

[00:27:24] Was never really originally in the original outline

[00:27:27] um

[00:27:29] I I kind of I had a different ending in mind and thank goodness

[00:27:35] um

[00:27:36] You know sometimes inspiration strikes you at just the right moment and retroactively if I had not done that

[00:27:42] That would have been

[00:27:44] Quite a missed opportunity. So um, I the forces were with me that particular night

[00:27:50] when I

[00:27:53] When I when I when I changed the ending. Yeah. Oh wow

[00:27:57] Oh, that's so interesting

[00:27:59] I would have thought that that would have been like one of those images that you had first and you build a scene around it

[00:28:04] It sure yeah, it sure seems that way, but this is one of those instances where no that was just a lucky

[00:28:10] um

[00:28:12] addition

[00:28:14] All right, let's take a quick break

[00:28:16] Hey comics fam itty comic book publisher band of bars just got a level up and announced it is now a cooperative

[00:28:24] This heralds a new era for them including a partnership with dollas stories

[00:28:28] And they added star balloon members to the ownership group

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[00:29:13] Let's get back to the show

[00:29:15] Well, we clearly see the influence with you know

[00:29:18] Orson wells and your love of wells is films

[00:29:21] There's so many science fiction elements in here not just the war the world stuff early on but there's like

[00:29:26] Some some like wild concepts as we get you know further and further into the into the book

[00:29:32] Not just the stuff with the orb and you have characters kind of jumping around in space and time

[00:29:37] I mean you mentioned something like, you know doctor who's

[00:29:40] Tardis um

[00:29:43] But what are your influences in terms of you know science fiction does it come from other comics books movies?

[00:29:49] Is there things in particular that you were like? Oh, I've seen

[00:29:54] Something like this but I want to amp it up and do it in a different way

[00:29:57] So I kind of have a background um at a very young age

[00:30:03] I read some of the the basic grand masters of sci-fi

[00:30:06] Your you know your arthur c clerks your isaac asimovs

[00:30:11] And then when I got further I got into um

[00:30:16] You know philip k dick and the cyber punks

[00:30:19] And the thing that I loved about the cyber punks was just

[00:30:23] The density of ideas

[00:30:25] That they had

[00:30:27] And I even did a writing exercise once you know

[00:30:31] Some of my favorites are you know neil stevensson

[00:30:34] bruce sterling

[00:30:36] william gibson, of course, but um

[00:30:39] Bruce sterling has this

[00:30:42] um

[00:30:45] Collection called skismatrix and skismatrix

[00:30:48] Plus, I think are you familiar at all with this one? No. No tell me about it

[00:30:54] so it is

[00:30:56] You know

[00:30:59] I guess if you're only going to read one cyberpunk book it would be neuromancer

[00:31:03] I think if you're going to read two cyberpunk books, I think the second one should be skismatrix

[00:31:09] Skismatrix blocks and it's just

[00:31:12] It's just an onslaught of technology and ideas and concepts

[00:31:17] And I was so impressed by it. I literally took like a chapter of of the book

[00:31:24] And I wrote down the number of ideas

[00:31:27] And divided it by the number of pages to figure out like how many freaking ideas can this guy fit into one page

[00:31:34] Okay, it was a staggering number

[00:31:36] um

[00:31:38] But the way my brain works on this sort of stuff

[00:31:43] Sterling is great at

[00:31:45] in developing in

[00:31:47] You in a world where the technology is almost akin to magic

[00:31:52] Um, but it's it's definitely not magic. It's you can feel that it's technological in nature

[00:31:58] But he's got just too many ideas to throw at you to stop and

[00:32:01] explain them

[00:32:02] But I still have my grounding in you know

[00:32:06] Isaac Asimov and Arthur C Clark. So there's a part of me. I'm a bit of a

[00:32:10] science fan

[00:32:12] There's a part of me that

[00:32:13] Wants to understand why the thing is there why the thing works the way it does so whenever I introduce

[00:32:19] sci-fi concepts, even if I don't put it in the story

[00:32:23] I personally have to work

[00:32:25] I've got to work out the fake physics

[00:32:28] For it to work

[00:32:29] And a lot of that does translate when I actually get to the story

[00:32:33] Um, and I try to make it interesting and have a point other than just being you know

[00:32:40] World building or something. Yeah

[00:32:42] so so

[00:32:44] Yeah, even though

[00:32:46] We've got a little bit of a campy

[00:32:49] um

[00:32:51] View of like early 50s sci-fi when the story starts

[00:32:56] When you've got like the war of the worlds

[00:33:00] Um

[00:33:02] I I

[00:33:04] I kind of quickly segue it into

[00:33:06] Uh deeper concepts and more mature sci-fi at least that's my hope

[00:33:12] Yeah, no definitely. I I mean

[00:33:14] You know, there were just some things in here

[00:33:16] um

[00:33:17] not just the

[00:33:19] Not just the spheres, but in terms of like, uh the alien technology

[00:33:25] I mean, there's like

[00:33:27] We get into you get into something that's like the the the black hole at the center of the galaxy

[00:33:33] That's also kind of like a machine and like there's just

[00:33:37] The the concepts that you end up like putting in here

[00:33:40] Not just the little technological advices that you'll see on an alien world or Gilbert will have to explain that

[00:33:47] you know

[00:33:49] This is what this thing is and you know, we we see little things like that little devices little gadgets like

[00:33:55] A lot a lot of fun stuff, but you have like big huge

[00:33:59] You know nothing and that's when I say when I say something's unexpected

[00:34:02] I think oh orson wells the war of the worlds was real. He's

[00:34:06] Government agent and he's gonna protect the galaxy

[00:34:08] but you take this into places that I never saw coming with some of these concepts that

[00:34:15] um

[00:34:16] I was just kind of like astounded by that they were in a book like this and that

[00:34:21] It made sense

[00:34:23] Oh, thank you. I'm glad I did because I was worried that, you know, maybe the tone was

[00:34:27] a little uneven, but um, I kind of think

[00:34:31] I kind of think it kind of just all works

[00:34:34] So well, I think your characterization of worsen wells and

[00:34:39] Paula in particular helps a lot to keep it grounded and keep the tone even

[00:34:45] I I think having

[00:34:47] Your way have as a reader having a way in with somebody who is kind of experiencing all these

[00:34:54] Fantastical things and I will say Paula does acclimate herself to a lot of them pretty quickly

[00:34:59] but still having somebody that we feel like

[00:35:02] Is drawn into this as a reader

[00:35:04] I I feel like helps to keep the the tone

[00:35:08] Even when you're dealing with a lot of the when you get into some of the bigger sci-fi concepts

[00:35:13] and it also helps that it's like peppered with

[00:35:16] um, you know, they're going back in time and and dealing with some pseudo real life

[00:35:21] situations in terms of worsen wells and the studio and

[00:35:24] talking about different films that he's made and uh, you know

[00:35:29] Hitting real points in time that there are events that we're familiar with

[00:35:34] I think it helps to really keep, you know everything

[00:35:38] um

[00:35:39] Everything even as a whole

[00:35:41] Yeah, and one of the things I tried to do. I think I may have mentioned this when we last spoke but now you can see the

[00:35:48] the breadth of the

[00:35:50] Of the aim here, um

[00:35:52] Even with all this crazy stuff going on

[00:35:54] I tried to respect that every single detail that we know of worsen wells is real life

[00:35:59] Actually happened and it happened the way that we were told it happened

[00:36:04] And then there's just all this other crazy BS happening in the background

[00:36:09] Yeah

[00:36:11] Yeah, I mean, but it's it's it's all like, you know kind of great fun

[00:36:16] um, I wanted to ask you without hopefully giving too much away, but um

[00:36:22] There's some stuff towards the end where orson kind of like assembles his team and I feel like again that is

[00:36:30] you know, maybe a glimpse into

[00:36:32] like

[00:36:33] Milton's personal thoughts about film and and filmmaking. Is that like enough?

[00:36:38] Is that am I reading too much into it or is it no no guilty guilty is charged there

[00:36:44] as as we reach the later chapters

[00:36:47] and and the the stakes

[00:36:50] escalate and the

[00:36:51] space operatics of it

[00:36:53] get even more

[00:36:55] off kilter

[00:36:58] It's it we depart from reality a bit

[00:37:02] towards

[00:37:04] I mean, it's it's just in like a very

[00:37:06] Again a very like fun way and like there's this big huge space battle. I mean

[00:37:11] I I really want listeners

[00:37:13] I know we're dancing around stuff because it's hard to talk about specifics without giving like everything in this book away

[00:37:19] But it's really something you should read an experience for yourself

[00:37:21] and I'm just kind of touching on some of the stuff without getting too much into it, but

[00:37:25] You know like you have a thing that's like a living planet that retains the memory of

[00:37:31] All these different species like it looks amazing on the page. It sounds absolutely wild

[00:37:37] Um, it kind of comes into play later on too. It's there's a great, you know

[00:37:41] Kind of like it's important call back to it and it's just

[00:37:45] You're just thinking like this is a book

[00:37:47] Orson Welles warrior of the world and I'm just there's just some unbelievable stuff on the page and again

[00:37:53] Eric is absolutely along for the ride for everything and just like

[00:37:57] crushes these pages

[00:38:00] Yeah, um with some of those sorts of things, um

[00:38:04] We tried to approach this book as if

[00:38:07] you know set aside the premise um in the known quantity of it

[00:38:11] and

[00:38:13] You're gonna do a 238 page epic sci-fi

[00:38:16] Story that spans a character that goes like

[00:38:21] You know multiple decades of the protagonist's life

[00:38:24] Right. I tried to I tried to fill everything in our fictional

[00:38:29] sci-fi world with as much

[00:38:31] gusto and innovation as I would have in any other kind of project as well

[00:38:37] and

[00:38:38] You know hats off to Eric again like the planet that has the living memories of all of these species

[00:38:45] I mean

[00:38:46] it's one thing to

[00:38:48] type that crap onto a script page

[00:38:50] But then you know poor Eric. He's got the task of like, okay. I've got one page

[00:38:56] to try to convey this

[00:38:59] multi layered

[00:39:02] concept, how do I do this and then oh by the way

[00:39:05] um

[00:39:07] I can I can dance around this but you'll know what i'm referring to

[00:39:11] um the whole thing is

[00:39:13] premised on something that

[00:39:16] Suggests a specific

[00:39:20] um geometric shape

[00:39:22] For the paneling. Yeah, so not only are you gonna have to convey this entire concept in one page

[00:39:28] Also, you you can't use rectangles

[00:39:32] You've got you've got to you've got to use a different geometry here. Yeah. Is he is Eric still talking to you?

[00:39:39] um

[00:39:42] Now that he's done I I would not fault him for just ghosting

[00:39:48] One of my favorite pages is um

[00:39:52] Oh, it's like it's

[00:39:54] like a

[00:39:56] I don't know how to describe it. I'll tell you what chapter it's in

[00:39:59] um

[00:40:01] It's it's it's towards the end it's in chapter seven

[00:40:05] um

[00:40:06] but there's a scene with

[00:40:09] Orson and um

[00:40:11] another character

[00:40:13] kind of smoking a cigarette and it looks like a you know

[00:40:17] The whole page is like a broken like a broken mirror like broken glass. It's like no, you know

[00:40:23] straight lines in terms of the paneling and

[00:40:27] it's one of those ones that you look at

[00:40:29] but and um

[00:40:32] It's but it's

[00:40:34] It's not confusing at all in terms of the word order like the lettering's so good

[00:40:40] And it has such like a great flow to it even though it's so broken and disjointed. It just looks great as a page

[00:40:47] Um, but yeah, it's in chapter seven and it's it's just worse than another character kind of talking about

[00:40:52] You know, it's black and white and it's just it's just wonderful one of my favorite pages

[00:40:56] It's just so well done because it's hard. I think it would be with something like that if the lettering isn't great

[00:41:02] If the visual storytelling isn't great

[00:41:04] It's easily the reader's eye could get lost on the page doesn't happen at all

[00:41:08] It's very clear in terms of the direction you need to you know, look into your eye

[00:41:14] Just follows it just tracks it

[00:41:16] Yeah, that was quite a challenging one as well. Um

[00:41:20] um, one of the lesser known

[00:41:23] Uh wells films is he did an adaptation

[00:41:26] Of france kaufka's the trial

[00:41:29] Um, and it was hard to get a copy of for the longest time

[00:41:33] It just recently got restored in 4k and looks gorgeous

[00:41:37] But that's sort of paranoid worldview

[00:41:40] of of of you know, your standard kaufka esk

[00:41:45] narrative, um

[00:41:47] Fits that moment in the story as well

[00:41:49] Um, and there's sort of a mental breakdown occurring

[00:41:53] Um, so yeah, there's there's a lot of things unraveling

[00:41:59] The center is not holding very strong at that point

[00:42:01] So i'm glad i'm glad at least you were able to comprehend it because we kind of pushed we kind of pushed it in that uh

[00:42:08] In that moment

[00:42:09] Well, yeah, I mean just it's like a page of comic art as well. It just looks wonderful. Um

[00:42:15] it in terms of

[00:42:17] your

[00:42:18] Collaboration with eric and you kind of something you just said

[00:42:22] Made me think of this like how did you convey the visual language of

[00:42:27] Like some of the films so that eric could kind of like capture that in the

[00:42:32] visual storytelling in the art

[00:42:35] um

[00:42:36] Was that just something you did on the page? Did you ever send them like reference photos?

[00:42:40] Did you say look you're you're just going to have to watch?

[00:42:43] You know this film

[00:42:45] Yeah, so I tried to do my best to uh limit

[00:42:50] um

[00:42:52] Limit the time investment in in addition to what he's already invested

[00:42:55] So I I would um put hyperlinks on certain words in the script

[00:43:01] and say hey, you know

[00:43:03] This panel here

[00:43:05] Could be reminiscent or very similar to

[00:43:08] this this shot from this film

[00:43:10] So the scripts are definitely peppered with heavy

[00:43:14] bits of reference

[00:43:16] And um it's a testament to eric's skills as a

[00:43:21] uh

[00:43:22] Visual storyteller that he was able to convey a lot of that without having to you know

[00:43:27] Sit through and watch entire films

[00:43:30] Right and just give the give the important ambience and the important moments and

[00:43:36] um

[00:43:37] We got some feedback from uh

[00:43:42] Someone who read the book recently it was kind of fun that um

[00:43:47] eric responded back to me. He's like oh, hey that person

[00:43:51] liked that thing

[00:43:53] And that's cool because like I had no idea what that thing was and now

[00:44:01] Yeah, there's there's a there's a lot of deep cuts in there. Oh, yeah

[00:44:06] well, um

[00:44:07] I mean and that's got to be great for folks that are

[00:44:10] Fans of orson welles and know his films well

[00:44:13] Like I say, I know some of them but um

[00:44:16] Even for someone who's not as as well versed. I still thoroughly, you know enjoyed the comic

[00:44:21] This isn't something it's like oh, I got to be a fan of orson welles or like you don't have to do any homework

[00:44:25] You can totally just enjoy this as a comic but uh, and it's a wonderful story

[00:44:31] But if it does get you and to check out some of the films of orson welles then uh, I mean, I think that's you know

[00:44:36] That's fantastic added bonus added bonus. Absolutely. Um the last the last page of

[00:44:45] Chapter seven where kind of like I'll say denormans like final form is is revealed

[00:44:51] And I mean when did you settle on that as an image? And I don't I don't want to spoil it, but like it is so

[00:44:59] It's so good

[00:45:05] So um

[00:45:08] Like it was only half bake when it got put in the script

[00:45:12] The thing that really elevates it and you'll know what i'm referring to here is like it's a combination of two known things

[00:45:21] type of science fiction

[00:45:23] Vehicle

[00:45:24] Yeah, and the other one is a certain design influence and eric

[00:45:29] Is the one that brought the design influence in that

[00:45:33] that makes the

[00:45:35] The computation of like oh, okay

[00:45:37] This oh, so this is what this thing is. Okay. Yeah, and and like

[00:45:42] Several people have commented that that they they were particularly amused by that and 100 percent of that is

[00:45:49] Due to eric's just mad genius and he when he first emailed me his first

[00:45:54] Sketch of it and the coloring is key

[00:45:58] And he sent the coloring. He's like, I don't know. Is this too much and i'm like no, no, that's exactly it. Thank you

[00:46:05] Yeah, and let listeners like when you you're when you read it and you you get to that point

[00:46:10] And you've already learned certain things about denorman, but when you see this reveal at the end of chapter seven

[00:46:18] Um, I think a lot of things will click into place about that character

[00:46:22] um, if you hadn't

[00:46:25] You know realized it before but also it does it in a way that is still very kind of like over the top science fictiony

[00:46:31] with uh

[00:46:33] Just the right amount of whimsy

[00:46:36] Yeah

[00:46:37] Yeah, some people very well done. Yeah, some people will see this coming a mile away and then other people will be like

[00:46:43] Oh

[00:46:44] That's what this is

[00:46:46] Yeah, I think so. I think that's probably the the response but um

[00:46:52] uh, so, um

[00:46:56] You know you said you talked about some some getting some feedback from the book

[00:47:00] As like some of the issues came out. How is like the feedback been so far? Have you been encouraged by it?

[00:47:07] Yeah, I I've been encouraged because you know when and i'm sure

[00:47:11] You've had other creators on who've said something akin to this but when you

[00:47:16] You reach a certain point with something

[00:47:19] Don't work

[00:47:21] You can no longer evaluate it not even subjectively

[00:47:25] Not even pretending to be some sort of

[00:47:27] semi-objective there's just

[00:47:30] you you lose

[00:47:31] all

[00:47:33] All perspective and it's just a thing

[00:47:36] And and so when we started sending it out, I

[00:47:40] You know, I had certain hopes

[00:47:43] That people would dig it but um, I also had fears that

[00:47:47] You know people would be like, ah nice try but you know, this is horseshit. Um, but um

[00:47:52] I was I was I was so fortunate

[00:47:56] um

[00:47:58] One of the things that has come about

[00:48:00] From the release of this book, um

[00:48:03] We we've announced a partnership

[00:48:07] with um, Hollywood screenwriter ryan christopher murphy

[00:48:11] Who was one of the writers of the feature film ready or not?

[00:48:16] And one of the staff writers on season two of castle rot

[00:48:20] um

[00:48:22] he is

[00:48:23] uh partnered with us to develop a

[00:48:27] uh television adaptation

[00:48:29] Of orson weles warrior of the worlds and he was one of the first people to get the whole book

[00:48:35] Yeah, you know most people had only seen

[00:48:38] the first chapter and

[00:48:41] Uh, send it out to him

[00:48:43] um

[00:48:44] And after he had a chance to read it

[00:48:48] He sent me a message back that was just you know, whenever you're you're creating something you have

[00:48:54] You know, you you have this dream of the response that you want

[00:48:57] And it was like the perfect response in every way and it like exceeded

[00:49:02] My perfect response and I was just so thankful

[00:49:05] And you know, I've got that energy in my tank that'll keep me going

[00:49:08] You know for at least another couple of years, you know, so that's awesome. Yeah, I was just

[00:49:14] And not only was it it was great to see someone enjoyed it

[00:49:18] But it's someone who like got it

[00:49:21] You know quote-unquote on every single level of what what we're trying to do. So it really clicked and um

[00:49:28] Um

[00:49:29] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thus far all all the response we've been receiving is just so positive. Um, I'm really thankful

[00:49:37] Well, that's fantastic. Um, I'm happy for more

[00:49:41] You know listeners and more folks to be able to get their hands on the trade

[00:49:45] So I think it reads very well, you know as a trade

[00:49:49] Um, although it's segmented enough, uh, you know, I'm sure it reads fine as single issues as well

[00:49:54] but

[00:49:55] Going through it today. I was I was

[00:49:58] Hungry for more with the end of every chapter. I just really feel like, you know

[00:50:04] I'm lucky enough when I get folks that me the comics beforehand to read before we can talk about it on the podcast

[00:50:11] And I I do read, you know, quite a lot of comics. Um

[00:50:15] And when you just get something that you

[00:50:18] uh

[00:50:20] Just haven't seen before or you feel like somebody's really taken a big swing and just doing something that

[00:50:26] You don't see every day and not to knock

[00:50:29] superhero comics or cape comics or

[00:50:33] You know, whatever folks are doing. That's not the point

[00:50:35] It's just that when you when you see somebody really taking a chance on something and really trying to do something different

[00:50:41] I'm telling a story like this

[00:50:43] tying it in with orson well's life and with all these different elements and keying it into some of the visual language or

[00:50:50] the tone or theme of the films

[00:50:53] um

[00:50:54] I just think it's really special and uh, just hell of a comic book. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it

[00:51:02] Um before I let you go Milton anything else that you uh, either working on or i'm kind of curious anything else

[00:51:08] You've been watching or or reading that you're really into right now

[00:51:12] well, um

[00:51:14] Let's see. Um

[00:51:16] Yeah, a couple of things that i'm

[00:51:19] enjoying I just

[00:51:21] uh finished

[00:51:23] um, i'm based out of houston texas and

[00:51:27] I read an original graphic novel from another houston based creator

[00:51:31] named nico rodriguez

[00:51:33] Um, and he just this week put up on the kickstarter a campaign for a book called west not south

[00:51:40] um, and it's about that. It's about an anthropomorphic mouse

[00:51:44] um, who kind of grew up in the city and has moved out into the

[00:51:49] the western landscape and he's kind of caught up in like a

[00:51:53] uh, cohen brothers cormac mccarthy

[00:51:57] revenge plot

[00:51:59] Um, it's funny. It's dark. It's philosophical

[00:52:03] Um, and it was just it just a total delight

[00:52:07] um

[00:52:08] And I I just started

[00:52:11] Mary tyler moor hawk by dave baker

[00:52:14] Um, it's very dense and very mad and I think it's probably going to be an isner nominee

[00:52:22] Very damn cool. Um

[00:52:25] Let's see. Um, are you watching three body problem on netflix?

[00:52:30] I was I was gonna start it this week and I haven't started it yet

[00:52:33] Um, but i'm looking forward to checking it out. I'm enjoying that. I'm about five episodes in

[00:52:39] um

[00:52:41] I I'm enjoying that quite a lot. So yeah, there's three things I can recommend right there

[00:52:47] All right. Well, they sound good. I would Mary tyler moor hawk

[00:52:50] I want to check that out. Um and south not west. I'll have to look that up on kickstarter

[00:52:55] Yeah

[00:52:57] Or west not south. Yes west not south. I think I reversed it. Um, all right milt milton

[00:53:03] um

[00:53:04] This has been awesome. I mean, I just love this

[00:53:06] God I want to I just want folks to check it out and I'm gonna

[00:53:10] I gotta go start compiling where I can watch more orson well's films because it was funny

[00:53:15] I was just reading something else and it referenced the other side of the wind

[00:53:20] Um, oh, wow. I will yeah, it was an article and they they it brought it up

[00:53:24] And I was like, oh, I got to see that and then I remembered. Oh millen's coming on the podcast

[00:53:29] Yeah

[00:53:31] And speaking of uh

[00:53:33] I I

[00:53:34] I forgot the the key piece of news. I was going to tell you um

[00:53:39] The new release date for the book is july 24

[00:53:42] Okay, july 24th. Awesome. Yeah, we originally we're gonna maybe have it come out in may

[00:53:47] But you know comics is comics and you know things get delayed

[00:53:51] So um, but right now as people listen to the episode they should be able to

[00:53:57] Pre-order just call your local comic shop

[00:54:00] Um say hey orson well's word of the world's pre-order for me

[00:54:03] All right, yeah

[00:54:05] 238 pages of color and black and white madness

[00:54:10] Yeah, I I mean it's it's such a it's so wonderful and it's it's so tough to describe

[00:54:16] Like it it really does have everything but it you know, you talk about

[00:54:21] Following that like backbone or spine of like you had that spine of the book because of following like orson well's career

[00:54:29] But it's true like some of the other wilder

[00:54:32] Elements wouldn't work as well if you didn't if you didn't have that kind of like backbone to it

[00:54:40] And it really allows you to kind of just push it in

[00:54:45] Just crazy comic book directions and it's

[00:54:49] Man, it's just great

[00:54:52] Thank you man. Thank you. Yeah, I hope listeners you check it out orson well's warrior of the world's july 24th and um

[00:54:59] Yeah, check it out get it. Let me know how you liked it what we can talk about it. We'll uh

[00:55:06] We'll start a second podcast where we go through the films of orson well's

[00:55:10] Um, we'll have a well's cast yes

[00:55:14] Get some get some whiskey and cigars and uh go to go to town on it. Absolutely. Um, but milton

[00:55:20] I can't thank you enough. It's always a pleasure to talk to you

[00:55:24] I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and um, you've just you made a you and erica put together just a phenomenal comic book

[00:55:30] So I really appreciate it. Oh, it's shout out to my brother bobby cryptic creator corners number one most dedicated listener bobby listens to all my

[00:55:37] Episodes bobby make sure you let me know if you want orson well's warrior of the world's i'll add it to our pull list

[00:55:42] Um, all right milton. Thank you very much listeners. Thank you for listening

[00:55:46] Good night, and i'll see you next time

[00:55:48] This is biron o'neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book yeti

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