Ron Marz Interview

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview. Hey everyone, this is... Hi Byron. Who is this? I'm your fairy godmother. I have a fairy godmother? Of course you do. I'm 50 years old, why haven't you shown up before? I appear when I'm needed. And I didn't need you in all these years? Do you want my help or not? Um...

[00:00:30] Sure. Exactly. I was just about to pitch our Patreon. Why would I need help with that? Because you're an idiot sometimes. That's hurtful. What were you going to put on there? We do comic stuff? So something along those lines? And this is why I'm here. You do know what people put on Patreon most of the time, right? Honestly, no. People need something a little bit spicy to entice them to support you.

[00:00:59] Nobody wants to see me shirtless. I doubt that's true. You are in pretty good shape considering your age. Thank you. Let's see. A little spicy. I've been bugging Jimmy to figure out what he's going to do. I know lately he's been playing around with his **** all the time. He loves to take it out and show it off. There's even a specific TikTok channel now. How's that sound? Not a bad start. People like Jimmy. What else you got?

[00:01:24] I told a story recently about being in a strip club with some of the four horsemen when I was working for WCW back in the day. I picked up an infection on my- Woo! From the experience, I hate strip clubs. Is that better? Getting there? But maybe spicy shouldn't include infections you get in strip clubs. That's not sexy. We'll workshop it. Like I need more meating. At least tell them where to find it while we figure this out. Mother goddess, help this poor man.

[00:01:53] You can find us on Patreon at Cryptid Creator Corner Pod. I'll put it in the show notes. Anything else you'd like to remind me that I'm bad at? How much time do you have? Why do you look like Rosario Dawson anyway? I appear the way you want me to look. Okay, that's disturbing. Wait, have you been showing up in my dreams? I'll never tell. And we're done here. Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yeti's Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo.

[00:02:21] And I'm super excited about today's guest because I've read quite a few comic books that they've written. And they have written a lot of comic books for DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Top Cow, Dynamite, Image, Devil's Due, CrossGen, and a whole bunch of other stuff. But please, please welcome to the podcast, Ron Mars.

[00:02:50] Ron, how are you doing today? I am well, Jimmy. Thanks for having me. So I am very excited to talk to you. I've gotten in your line a few times to get some things signed at Baltimore Comic Con. My brother and I go there every year. Every year, I love Baltimore. And I know that you've been going there. I think you've been there every year that I've been going. Maybe not every year, but pretty close. I mean, it's a comic show.

[00:03:19] That's where our tribe gathers. You know, Mark Nathan, who runs Baltimore as a friend, and he's said for years, they don't like comics. There's no reason to be in the building. This is, you know, this is a old school comic show. It just happens to be a really big old school comic show. Yeah, I, my brother and I have been going, I think since, I think the first year we went was maybe 2016 or 17.

[00:03:47] So the past, you know, seven or eight years. And I just, I love it. I have met so many different creators there, whether or not, you know, they're in kind of like the main section or the folks in Artist Alley. I just really think they do a great job catering to, you know, comic creators and to fans of comic books, which is, you know, exciting. Some places, you know, don't, they don't really are geared towards media guests.

[00:04:17] I think they do a really nice job, so. Well, you know, a lot of those, and I don't begrudge those shows, you know, what they are and what, you know, how they, how they bring in, you know, their guests. To me, it's kind of like buyer beware at this point. If you're, you know, if you, if you go to a show and the, you know, the, the first 60 guests are all media people, are all celebrities. And then there's like, you know, four comic people at the bottom, you know, it's not a comic show. It's a pop culture show.

[00:04:47] And there's nothing wrong with that, but, you know, sort of know what you're, know what you're getting. Don't go there and then bitch about, well, there were no comics. Well, they were kind of telling you there were no comics. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there's nothing wrong with, with those types of pop culture, you know, shows. I agree. But like, I, I like the, the comics nature of Baltimore. Um, you know, so I, I, I really enjoy going there.

[00:05:10] Um, I mean, I going to, I, I've, you know, followed your work, followed you on social media, you know, seen in recent years, the different shows that you go to. Um, how has like the convention scene for you changed over the course of your career? Well, I mean, if it has, Oh, sure. It has. Absolutely. Um, you know, now it, now conventions are obviously a huge business.

[00:05:39] You know, there, there, there are, you know, multinational corporations, you know, investing in comic book conventions and turning huge money doing them. Um, which is great. You know, the rest of the world has sort of discovered our little fiefdom and, and realized they could make some money off of it. And, uh, now everybody's in, but you know, the first, I think the first show I went to was in the high school gymnasium.

[00:06:03] And, um, you know, and it was, you know, it was a bunch of, it was a bunch of nerds. Uh, it was, it was, you know, a bunch of nerds. And I think there were like two women in the entire building. Um, so to me, that's the biggest change. Now conventions are for everybody now. Yeah. You walk through a convention and it's, you know, probably 50, 50, or maybe even 60, 40 women to men.

[00:06:30] It's a, it, the, the industry as a whole, you know, comics being part of it, but also just, you know, regular media, you know, had discovered, uh, oh, there's, you know, like everybody wants to read. Like everybody's into this stuff. So, which I think is the best part of it completely. Um, so, you know, when I, when I broke in, it was 1990. I broke in as like a, I don't know, 22 year old kid or something like that.

[00:06:56] And, um, conventions, you know, there were, there were a handful of conventions in the country. San Diego was the big one. Um, you know, they were mostly hotel ballroom shows and, um, you know, there weren't that many of them. But now, you know, now there's a show of pretty decent size, you know, in every region of the country, every weekend of the year, except maybe Christmas. Um, and, and now it's international.

[00:07:23] I mean, I've been able, I've been fortunate enough to get to, you know, a laundry list of countries as long as your arm. Um, New Zealand, Uruguay, South Africa, Malta, India, um, all over Europe. Oh, wow. It's, you know, the, the fact that I get to go to these places that I get to, you know, fly to literally the other end of the earth, New Zealand, South Africa, because I write comics is insane.

[00:07:51] Um, you know, the fact that I, I, I went to Nairobi, Kenya to a comic book convention, um, is just nuts. And, but that's the rest of the world catching up to us. What is that experience like?

[00:08:08] I mean, not just that it's, you know, it's crazy that you say you write comic books and you get to go to these places, but are there, are there things that stand out about the, the culture of comic book fans in other countries that surprises you? Um, I think. Or is a nerd a nerd? Yeah. I mean, I think that that's the surprising thing, right? Like a, like a, a nerd in Nairobi, Kenya is like the same dude in, in, you know, Des Moines, Iowa.

[00:08:35] Uh, you know, they love the same thing, you know, somebody in India or Mexico or Heartland America, you know, we're all kind of the, you know, we're all the same tribe and, um, you get, a lot of the experiences are the same. Um, you know, at an international show, they're just a little more thrilled that you're there because they don't do this kind of thing very often.

[00:09:00] You know, this is, this is new, um, to the, to the audience and they're really happy that somebody came from, you know, half a planet away to, you know, to come commune with them, to come, you know, do this thing. Um, but, but I think the thing that strikes me the most is, you know, the, for the, the vast, vast majority are, you know, lovely people and we're all the same, you know, we're all the same.

[00:09:26] Um, we're all there for the same reasons because we love this stuff and we love this form of storytelling. Um, and it's, and it doesn't matter where you are in the world. Um, you know, I, I have the same conversations in New Zealand or Africa that I do at San Diego. Yeah. Wow. Probably honestly, even, you know, like more comic specific in far fun places than you, you do get in San Diego.

[00:09:55] Cause that's obviously a, a big media show now. So, um, so it's a, you know, I'm forever thankful that I've been able to get to all the places that I've visited. Um, somebody, you know, somebody flies you out and puts you up and you get to, you know, then you get to go on safari the next day. It's, you know, you get to go into the bush and look at animals. It's, it's the most amazing thing ever. That's pretty cool.

[00:10:24] Um, you have, you know, I mean, I don't know if like when you think of like what your, when you mention your name to a comic book fan, and I, you know, think of, I immediately think of Green Lantern, but you know, Silver Surfer, all the different things that you've done. Um, do you notice like, I'm just kind of curious now about the, that comic culture and other places.

[00:10:49] Do you notice that like, uh, outside of the U S is there one thing that you think folks come up to you more about, or want you to sign or to talk about, or is it just generally you get a, you get a mix of everything? Um, it's, it's a mix, but, uh, you know, Batman's pretty popular no matter where you go. Uh, yeah. Okay. Mexico, Mexico city, Batman's the thing, right?

[00:11:15] Uh, it's so, you know, Batman is sort of the, the universal. Um, and then everything else is, you know, a lot of it depends on what's, what has been available for distribution in place. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. And, and that, that's a different answer in different places. Sometimes it's, you know, places have gotten my Green Lantern run and have no idea what Silver Surfer is. Um, or which blade has landed there and the Marvel and DC stuff, not so much.

[00:11:44] So it's, you know, it's, it's a, it's a different kettle of fish, but since digital became, um, more prevalent, um, I think there's less of, there's, there's less of those blind spots in places because everybody can access what you're doing digitally. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I made a joke, uh, well, before we started recording about, I just wanted to talk about heat for like 45 minutes.

[00:12:12] So for, for, for, for listeners that don't know, um, I think heat, what was it? The, uh, house Emerald. I think it was like a tack team. And then they, I think they changed it to advanced team at some point. Yeah. They realized that they realized that attack was not maybe the best word, the best, the best method of delivering their message. So they changed it to advancement.

[00:12:37] Whenever, uh, you know, I, I, I was pretty, was pretty active on Twitter and now I've kind of in, in, in, uh, just like a lot of folks in, in the past year or two of migrated over to like blue sky. And, and, and some, some, some other, uh, places, but, you know, whenever there's a conversation on social media about a creator getting, you know, hate or they're being treated derogatory for the direction they're taking a character for something they've written.

[00:13:04] I, I, I think about you all the time because I, I think of, it seems a lot easier to give creators crap. Like we've, we've never had as a fan, we've, we've, we've never had the ability to be so connected to the people making the stuff that we love. Like I'm just a, I'm a personal injury attorney in Wilmington, Delaware. And I just love this stuff.

[00:13:29] And like I said, I've, I, the episode, my episode of the podcast that came out today was like my 160th, like, you know, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been able without social media to kind of like, well, you know, do that and put this together. Um, so we, and I, I'm always think like when you have with social media, when you have such ability to reach the folks making the stuff that you love, like why spend so much time being like angry about it.

[00:13:56] But, but whenever that does happen, I often think about you and like, you know, man, they like 1996, like they, they, they really had to go half their way to give you crap about your, your Green Lantern run. You had to earn it. You had to go, you had to go buy a stamp and put an envelope in the mail. Uh, they had to write like a real letter. And they, and they did. I mean, we, you know, we got, we got plenty of mail and we got, you know, we got death threats and. Oh my gosh.

[00:14:26] And it like the, you know, the, the lesson here is if you're going to send death threats to DC comics for the Green Lantern team, don't put your return address on the envelope. Yeah. That's a bad idea. Um, that was it. Yeah. That turned, turned out to be a bad idea. The NYPD went to visit a few people and have a conversation with them. Uh, do you, do you, does that like, does that ever cross like your mind again at all? Like, does, does that ever, did it ever bother you back then?

[00:14:56] And is it ever anything that ever you, you think about now that you had to go, you know, through and, and then deal with that? And folks know it, you know, have you fired because the direction you took a story in, I mean, or editorial told you to take a story, you know, a story in a certain direction. Um, it, it didn't bother me then, doesn't bother me now. Uh, it, I, I just kind of feel like it goes with the territory. It shouldn't, but it does.

[00:15:24] That's, that's, to great extent, that's the bargain you make when you do this stuff. Um, and if you don't like that bargain, you should probably do something else because there's really no way to stop it. Um, so, uh, you know, I had, like I said, I broke into Marvel at like 22 or something like that. And, um, prior to that, I had worked at a daily newspaper, uh, in my hometown and, you know, while I was in college.

[00:15:50] So I got the, you know, people don't like what you do part of my education out of the way when I was like 19. Like, it didn't matter what, it didn't matter what you wrote. I was a sports reporter and then I was the entertainment editor.

[00:16:06] And so, you know, it didn't matter if you, like I would cover high school football game and the next, the next day you would get calls at the office that people were pissed off that you didn't, you didn't have little Johnny's name in the, in the, in the story. And, you know, it was mostly cause little Johnny rode the bench for three quarters and then, you know, got in at garbage time.

[00:16:32] But so, you know, so I had an education very quickly from other, from other, you know, from seasoned journalists that look, no matter what you write, somebody's going to be pissed off. Um, and they're the ones you're going to hear from, not the people that were happy with what you did. Um, so I, you know, I had that drilled into my head before I, you know, before I could buy a legal drink.

[00:16:56] Um, so that was great training to have coming into comics because I already, you know, I already knew that stuff. I already, and I think a lot of people come into comics and are not prepared for that because, you know, real life being out in the world where people are generally polite, generally polite to you, um, does not prepare you. For that. For that. But I, you know, I learned those lessons.

[00:17:21] So when, you know, early in my career and then when the, you know, Green Lantern stuff went down, it was kind of like, all right, well, sorry. Uh, you, you know, it's impossible to please everybody. Um, and, and ultimately you have to do, you have to do this job for yourself. Um, you can't go into it with the mindset of, I'm going to please everyone that reads this. You know, I, I want to bask in their adulation.

[00:17:49] That's, that's not how this job works. Um, and it's not how you should expect it to work. So you have to tell the best story that you can. Um, and the story that entertains you the most, you, you know, you being your first audience. Um, and as long as you're happy with what you did, the rest of it, you can sort of let it roll off your back.

[00:18:12] Um, but I think a lot of people, um, don't come into it with that mindset and it's, it's a tough lesson to learn. Um, and look, people are, you know, people are sensitive and that's, it's understandable. Uh, and particularly, you know, uh, women, people of color, uh, anybody who's, well, look, anybody who's not a straight white dude.

[00:18:38] Um, gets, gets, you know, an unholy amount of grief, uh, poured on them in social media. Um, because that's the, unfortunately the, that's the society we live in. Um, you know, I would say we're, you know, we were a much more polite society when, if you ran your mouth to somebody, you had, you know, you had a fair chance of getting punched in the face.

[00:19:06] Um, and social media, there's, you know, there are no consequences. Right. Um, that, that stuff, that stuff doesn't, you know, there are people whose whole reason for being on social media is to make somebody unhappy. I think a lot of that comes from unhappy people, um, wanting to make other people unhappy. Um, which, you know, that's a whole other conversation.

[00:19:32] But, um, I, I just think, unfortunately it's reality that you have to deal, you have to figure out how you deal with it because I don't think there's a way to make it stop. Right. And it seems to me like the, the, the con experience, like a convention experience when you're actually in person with people, you know, there's not a line of people giving you crap. Like everybody seems to me, I've been in your line before. Everybody there is, and you know, a place like Baltimore, everyone's, I've never had an issue.

[00:20:00] Everyone's polite. Everyone's excited to talk about comics. Like that's, you know, without that anonymity sometimes of, uh, social media. There's, there's, there's very little, you know, there's very little unpleasantness that goes on in person because that's, you know, people know better. Yeah.

[00:20:20] For a myriad of reasons people know better, but you, you know, but online where there are no ramifications for your poor behavior, um, it just, you know, it's going to keep happening. Um. Yeah. And I think it's also, it's also easier for someone who wants to dish out abuse to do it online because we don't seem like real people online either. Right.

[00:20:44] We're just, we're just a screen icon and a name and it's, you know, there's a, I think there's a sense of, of, um, disconnect that this is real people. I mean, one of the, one of the heat dudes years ago, I was at a convention in Portland, Oregon and, um, and this guy came up and was pointed out to me as, you know, oh, that's, you know, that's one of the, you know, ringleaders from heat. And he's really unhappy with you and you should keep an eye on him.

[00:21:12] And, you know, it was a, you know, chubby little bearded dude who looked like Santa Claus, you know, was like, oh, okay. That's, that's, that's the guy. Um, so, um, you know, and he finally came up and, you know, said he wasn't happy with me and gave me my heat membership card, um, which was, uh, laminated.

[00:21:39] Uh, like the, one of the, and it had the, you know, it had heat's goals on the back of, and, you know, like the first one was fire my ass from the book and make sure that I, make sure that I, make sure that I can't work in comics anymore. And I thought, yeah, you know, it's like that Groucho line, any, you know, any club that would, you know, have me as a member, I remember, I wouldn't want to join. Um, so, so I was just like, well, thanks, but I don't, don't. I don't really need this.

[00:22:09] Um, and, and I, you know, I did say to the guy and we ended up talking and, you know, not like we became fast friends or anything, but, you know, we ended up talking and, and I said, you know, he said, he said to me that he was really unhappy with, you know, what I did to Hal Jordan and Hal Jordan didn't deserve that. And that, you know. Right. And, and I said, Hal Jordan's not a real person. Like he's a made up person.

[00:22:34] And you are more invested in the fate of a made up person than you are in me feeding my family through the, this job that I do. Right. And he sort of took a step back and look, looked around and like that had obviously never occurred to him. Like that, you know, this is a real person who, you know, literally, you know, pays his mortgage doing this. Yeah.

[00:22:59] Um, so, you know, it was a, you know, education for me also in that, you know, you realize, oh, these, you know, like their, their imaginary friends, Hal Jordan and Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, um, are more real to them than the people who actually make the books. Um, which is understandable from a certain point of view, which, you know, like you sort of get because they live with those people every day and they don't know us.

[00:23:28] They don't know the creators at all as people. Yeah. Um, and, you know, and then the guy asked me to sign his books and went on his merry way. I like him. He still asked you to sign, he still asked you to sign his books. Yeah. Put a pile down in front of me. And I, when I, when I tell this story, sometimes I, you know, tell a fib and say that I, you know, that I signed the books. Yours truly, Rob Liefeld. But that would, um, that's kind of a dick move. So I didn't do that.

[00:23:56] I just, I just signed my name and wished him well. What was it? The Emerald Twilight run? Well, yeah, it was, you know, it was like the first year of my run. Plus a, plus a Hal Jordan parallax figure mint on card, which was a little odd to me, but okay, whatever, dude. That's so funny. What's so bizarre? Um, wow.

[00:24:19] You know, um, well, sticking with kind of like Green Lantern and that run and, and, and, you know, Kyle Rayner coming out of that. Um, when you kind of, you know, have, uh, the, the ability to like co-create, you know, create those types of characters that, that are, that are still around. Do you ever, you know, and I, I know you've written some, you know, done some recent Green Lantern stuff too.

[00:24:46] I think during Jeremy Adams run, I know like number eight and I think a couple others you read, you'd written some, some stuff on. But do you ever like keep tabs on a character like that? Or is it just for you? Like, it's, it's an assignment. This is what I did. You know, we got to co-create Kyle Rayner. We got to start him off. We got to do all of that. And you know, if DC calls and wants me to jump back in, I'll, I'll catch up on what's been going on. But do you ever keep tabs on like anything like that? I don't, I don't really keep tabs.

[00:25:17] Um, more from this standpoint, I just don't have time. Like I, I don't have time to sit down and read a stack of books every month. That's when, you know, that's one of the dirty secrets of becoming a comic professional is you don't really have a lot of time to read comics anymore. There's, there's, you know, you try to keep up as, as best you can, but, um, you know, there's a, there's a stack of comics on my desk here that I'll get to at some point.

[00:25:42] But, um, reading, you know, usually the pull is to do the writing instead of the reading. Um, you know, in the case, in the case of Kyle, I don't, you know, like somebody, it's like watching somebody else raise your kids to a certain extent. Um, which you get, which is the, you know, which is how that works. You, you understand that process when you go into it. Like you, you, you come in and create a character from Marvel or DC. They ultimately belong to Marvel and DC.

[00:26:11] They're, it's not yours. Um, and you have to know that, um, you have, you have to embrace that going into the, to the thing. Or, you know, it just, I know there are some creators who always, you know, who, who are always commenting on what happens to characters they created. And, you know, I don't agree with this. And look, man, there's no, there's no answer for that. There's no, you know, it's, it's not yours.

[00:26:35] You knew that when you went in and it's, I don't think really healthy to obsess over what happens to your character once you're gone. Um, so I sort of, you know, I keep track to a certain extent, but, um, you know, it's not like I'm reading it every month and, um, you know, whatever. Look, I got to do, I got to do my thing and, um, both with the characters that I created and with characters that somebody else created.

[00:27:05] Um, I got my ride on the merry-go-round with Green Lantern and now it's somebody else's turn. Um, and that's just, that's the nature of comics. That's the, um, you can't get too close. Um, once you're off the book, you can't get too close to the stuff because, um, you don't, you don't get a vote anymore. You know, you get a vote while you're working on the stuff and then, uh, once somebody else is doing the job, keep your mouth shut. Nah.

[00:27:34] Um, you, you mentioned something earlier in terms of, um, you know, you're, you as the writer are like your first audience and writing for yourself in terms of entertaining yourself.

[00:27:44] Um, you know, as you've gone throughout your career and the place you are at your career now, um, have you found that the types of stories you like to tell, you know, how they changed going from when you were first trying to break in and, and, you know, getting in work for the big two to, you know, more recent stuff you've done now, like, um, like Beasts of the Black Hand that you've done with like Paul Harding. And I think Matthew Dow Smith did the art. Um, I don't really find it very different.

[00:28:14] I mean, it's all the same, it's all the same job. Um, and frankly, it's the same job, whether you're working on your own creator own stuff or, or you're, you know, working on Marvel and DC characters that have been around for 70 years. Uh, it's, it's all, it's all the same job, which is telling a story that has to me, it's, you know, telling a character driven story that has some emotional weight to it and has some, um, uh, and, and is, is going to promote.

[00:28:44] It's going to provoke an emotional reaction. Um, cause ultimately if you, you know, if you don't care what happens to the characters, why are you there? Um, so, uh, you know, I try to tell a story that, uh, that I want to read and you hope the audience comes along for the ride. Cause I'm the only audience whose tastes I'm sure of, you know, I don't, I don't know what, you know, Logan 517 in, uh, Arizona wants out of a story.

[00:29:13] Uh, you know, it's, it's, it, everything is anecdotal. Uh, the feedback you get, social media reviews, whatever, it's all anecdotal and it's all one person's opinion. So the only person's opinion that I trust is mine. Cause I'm sure of what I like and what I don't like and why I like those things or don't like those things.

[00:29:34] Um, so my, you know, from, from day one, my thought was always to tell the story I want to tell within the parameters that are given to me, um, by the editor, the publisher, whoever, you know, who's ever hiring me. If it's a work for hire job. Um, you know, if it's not a work for hire job, I do whatever the hell I want. Uh, and when it's work for hire, you're usually given some sort of parameters. Well, we need this to happen.

[00:30:03] Um, or you, you know, you pitch, there are parameters and you pitch the, the editor on what you want to do and where you want to take the story and the characters and they say, okay, or not. And you come to some sort of consensus as to where you're going. And then you sit down and tell that story. And it's not, you know, I've never been one to, you know, like outline everything and then stick to that outline a hundred percent.

[00:30:29] And, you know, part of, part of this job is just sort of following the characters where they want to lead you. Sometimes they take you places that you didn't expect and that's kind of great. That's like somebody else is doing the work. You're just along for the ride. Do you think that mentality is what has, you know, kind of propelled your longevity in, in comic books? Oh shit. I don't know. I mean, I, I don't think about it.

[00:30:56] Uh, um, cause I, I've never had, you know, I've never had much of a plan. Just like whatever, you know, whatever looks good, whatever, whatever seems, um, whatever seems like it's going to be fun. You know, I'm, I'm fairly certain comics are supposed to be fun. Uh, so that's always like, what, what would be cool? What would be fun?

[00:31:26] Um, but I, you know, I've, I've never like, oh, I need to, you know, within five years, I need to be writing Batman. And within 10 years, I need to do a, you know, universe changing crossover. And like, I've never, I don't, I've never set those sort of goals. Cause that, I don't know, just seems a little crass to me to, you know, be more worried about your, your, I think you should be more worried about the stories you're telling than the career you're building.

[00:31:56] Um, which is, you know, which is probably dumb. Um, you know, I go, there are people who are, who are much more, you know, career centric and brand centric and all of that stuff. But I've, to me, the stories have always been more important to me than, than the, you know, than, you know, I've turned down jobs that are higher profile for something that seemed like it would be a more interesting story. Um, that's, that's just how I'm wired.

[00:32:23] I'm not saying everybody needs to be wired that way, but that's what works for me. And it's worked for, you know, more than 30 years. So I'm not going to change now. Mm-hmm. When, um, I know that you, I think you're still doing a teaching like online, like writing classes. Yeah, I do some stuff for, uh, for the J. Kruger studio out of New York City, um, out of Manhattan.

[00:32:46] And I do fairly regular teaching for, uh, the United Arab Emirates for sandstorms, the sandstorm comic in print. So, um, so yeah, whatever little bits of knowledge I picked up, I try to pass along in those classes.

[00:33:02] Uh, not, not to like, not to spoil the class, but, um, is there, I mean, is there, is there anything that, that you've found resonates the most with people that have like taken your writing class in terms of like, if there's one, you know, lesson that you pass on? Is it to focus on story or character? Is there something more fundamental? Well, I mean, there's a lot of slices to that pie.

[00:33:27] Um, and so there's, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I try to impart, but I think the, the, to me, the two big things are comics or frozen moments in time, which is the first thing that Jim Starlin told me when he taught me how to do this. Like every, you know, these panels don't move, man. Uh, you know, you still see scripts turned in, uh, where it's like, you know, Batman does this thing and this thing and this thing in this panel.

[00:33:55] And then in panel two, he does these other, no, he doesn't. He does those three things in three separate panels. And this is, this is a hard way to tell a story. Like if you, if you can't think in pictures, you can't do this job. Yeah. Um, and particularly, um, people that learn screenwriting first and come to comics, it's a tough transition because comics are about the still image.

[00:34:19] And it's about, about, um, figuring out what that, what the best image to convey the story is. And then you move to the next image and the next and the next, and it's all funneled. And the other thing that I try to teach everybody that I work with is that it's, um, if, if you're a writer, you are one half of the collaboration. Um, there's no comic without the artist.

[00:34:46] And the artist is not your art monkey or your Xerox machine or your mind reader. That's going to just take the thing that's in your mind and put it on the page. The, you know, the, the artist is your co-creator and collaborator. And, um, you have to let them do that job. You can't say, well, that's not, that's not how I saw it in my head. And, well, if you're so determined that that's what that's got to look like, maybe you should draw it your own damn self.

[00:35:15] And inevitably people go, well, I can't draw. There's, there's your answer. You, if you can't draw it, that is a problem. If you can't draw it, you're going to collaborate. Um, so those are really the two, um, those are really the two things that I think are most important is that, you know,

[00:35:36] the structure of writing a comic, uh, writing a comic script is probably the hardest kind of creative writing you can do. Because you have to learn so many skills and juggle so many balls doing that. And then, you know, you have to be very accepting of being a collaborator to the art team and making them a full partner rather than just the next person in the assembly line.

[00:36:02] You know, that's, that's how you get a good comic is that you're, you're collecting, you're collaborating with everybody on the team and they're all doing the thing that they do better than you can do it. Um, and that's, you know, that's where, that's where that magic comes from. That's where the alchemy comes from. Um, so, I mean, there's, there's, I, when I actually started doing these classes, I had to sit down and figure out like why I did the things that I did.

[00:36:31] Like in, in approaching a comic and how you put the script together and how you deal with the real estate of a page and all that. Like I just did that naturally. Um, both from, you know, I, I guess I have a, a fairly visual imagination. Um, and also from what Jim Starlin taught me way back when, um, like I did that stuff. That's by second nature.

[00:36:56] And then when you have to actually convey that to somebody else, you have to sit down and think about, well, why do I do that? And how do I know how to do that? And so it was, it was instructive for me to sit down and go, oh, that's why I do those things. Like it's, it's, you know, to a certain extent, you know, it's like Ted Williams trying to teach hitting to people who are not Ted Williams.

[00:37:18] And I'm not comparing myself to Ted Williams by any means, but it's like, if you're gifted at doing something or not even gifted, just you're used to doing something. It, it's kind of harder to teach it to somebody else who has no, is coming into it fresh, who's coming into it, um, without having done it for years. So I really had to, you know, I really had to sit down and go, okay, now how do I, how do I take what I do by instinct and teach that to people in steps?

[00:37:48] Um, so I've, I've actually really enjoyed the process. It's, it's kind of cool. And I, you know, people that I have taught classes to in, in either place. Um, now have their own comics out, which is really kind of cool. Um, it's, it's cool to have, it's cool to have somebody that you taught how to do this send you their comic. That's it. That is, that is awesome. Um, did you ever sit down and look at something you had done before to like use as an example and, and go, I don't know why I did this.

[00:38:18] I gotta, gotta find another page. Um, maybe to a certain extent, but you know, I, I hardly ever go back and look at what I've done anyway. Like it's, you know, the, the, the, the best story you do should be the next story you do. And it doesn't work that way all the time, but, um, that's the goal.

[00:38:38] Uh, but I, I did, you know, like one of the, one of the scripts that I use in the class to show people, this is, this is what a beat sheet looks like. And this is what a script looks like. And this is what the comic looks like is, um, my script for almost American one, which, uh, almost American issue one, which was a series I did for, um, Aftershock.

[00:39:04] Which is basically the real life story of a Russian, two Russian intelligence operative. Basically Russian spies who fled Russia and ended up in the United States and defected here.

[00:39:16] Um, uh, so like that was, to me, that was a, that was sort of half journalism and half and half comic writing because I was trying to translate actual events, real events, real people, real places into a comic script.

[00:39:35] So that's, that's the, that's one of the ones I use because it's all, you know, it's all there and it's all there with, you know, this is, this is what the, you know, the U S embassy looks like. Uh, this is what, you know, this is the kind of plane they flew on, but, you know, so, um, it's, to me, that was an easier script to, to pass along to people because you didn't need to know anything ahead of time.

[00:39:58] You know, if I give them a green lantern script, there, there's a certain amount of knowledge you have to know coming into a superhero book. And if you, this is especially like teaching in the Emirates, um, you know, there's not much penetration of superhero comics. There's superhero media, but the actual comics themselves are, you know, there's like one comic story in the whole country, uh, in Dubai. Oh, wow.

[00:40:23] Um, so, um, so you can't assume, you can't assume that like, if you did it here, everybody knows who Batman is. Um, they know who Batman is there, but they might not know the comic version of Batman. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I would, I would think that just thinking about you, you saying that what came to you naturally, I, I didn't think about that.

[00:40:47] You know, I always thought like, Oh, somebody learned it and then, you know, they're taking the skills that they learned and, and teaching it. But if you come by something naturally, the thing to then have to go back and like break it down as to why you did it and like put it in a lesson plan to pass it on to somebody else. That is kind of fascinating to, to think about having to do that. But yeah, you sort of, I had to deconstruct what I do, um, to be able to build it back into, you know, into a, you know, a framework.

[00:41:17] Um, and again, and a lot of it was, I was just fortunate enough that I, I do have a visual imagination and I can see stuff in my head. And frankly, it wasn't until a few years ago that I learned that not everybody can do that. Like, I just, I just assumed everybody could do that because I could do it.

[00:41:35] I could do it from when I was a kid, but you know, I read a few articles about visual imagination and the fact that, you know, when, when someone says Apple, I picture a, an actual specific Apple in my mind. And when someone says Apple to a different person, that person might see like a cartoon Apple because that's how their brain is tuned. Or they might, a different person might see an outline of an Apple because that's how their brain is tuned.

[00:42:03] Or they might not see an Apple at all because that's not how they're wired. And I was shocked to discover that. Yeah. I, I think I saw the same thing and I was just like, what? Yeah. Cause I was just like, wait a minute, everybody can't do the thing that I just, you know, so it's, you know, I obviously I'm very fortunate that, that that's the way I was wired.

[00:42:25] Um, and it's, you know, it's probably to a certain extent, uh, you know, a chicken and egg question is, was I drawn to comics because I was wired that way? Or was the fact that I was wired that way pointed me towards comic?

[00:42:40] I, you know, it's, or, or, you know, I could, I could, um, better in vit, you know, I was better at getting comics when I was a kid that are, you know, understanding them, um, and understanding the visual aspect of them chiefly because that's the way I was wired. And I, I don't know what the answer is. It's probably some of each. Yeah. Probably a little of both. Um, yeah, that, yeah. I read that same thing though.

[00:43:07] I was kind of, you know, blown away by it that not just, you know, the same thing where I had heard some folks don't, don't have like an inner voice. And I, I'd read that and I just like, couldn't, like, I couldn't wrap my mind around it. Like, you know, it's just the brains are weird. Yeah. Well, I, you know, obviously we only get one though. And yeah. And some of us not even that.

[00:43:35] So, um, but you know, but the fact that, you know, like we can't see outside our own experience. Yeah. Uh, so it doesn't occur to us that there is a different experience than we can, than we can see. So I, you know, that, that article just, you know, reordered my brain in a serious way. Yeah.

[00:43:54] Um, so what kind of, I, I, you know, uh, what, what type of stories are you, you know, working on now or do you, that you still want to tell? Um, all of them, you know, like I've never been, I've never been sort of genre specific or, you know, cause there are writers that come into comics and they just want to do superheroes.

[00:44:17] Or they just want to do horror or they, you know, and that's not like, I've never been sort of so genre specific that I didn't want to play with all the other toys in the toy box too. So, um, which, you know, which then goes, I remember, you know, years ago, uh, Sean Murphy and I had a discussion of, you know, branding, like branding yourself as a creator. And, and, you know, and I was like, that's dumb.

[00:44:47] I don't want to brand myself. And he's like, no, that's smart because then you attract an audience that's looking for that specific thing. And I think he's, Sean's probably right. Um, he's obviously been very successful. I mean, uh, he draws pretty well too, you know, that's probably got something to do with it. Yeah. That helps. But, you know, but he was aware of that, that sensibility of you need to, you know, you need to brand yourself.

[00:45:09] And I just wasn't interested because I wanted to write superhero stuff and horror stuff and science fiction stuff and historical adventure and whatever else I could get my hands on. Um, just because they were, you know, they were all flavors on the smorgasbord that I wanted to try. Um, and I still feel that way. I mean, there's certainly stuff that I like to do more than others, but, you know, like I don't, I probably don't want to tell, you know, to great extent, funny animal stories or.

[00:45:39] Or, um, you know, teen romance stories. That's not really of interest. But I mean, I did a bunch of Skylanders comics when I was working on the video games. Yeah. Which are basically funny animal stories. So, um, and I had a ball doing it. So, um, I just want to do, you know, I want to do all of the stuff. You know, I want to, I want to play with all the toys. So, um, yeah, I'll continue to do superheroes because, uh, that's, you know, like most creators.

[00:46:09] That's the most of what I've done because that's where you can actually make a living doing these things. Um, but, you know, historical adventure and, you know, I've got three or four different creator on series getting worked on. And they're all different things. There's just, you know, there's espionage, there's sort of historical fantasy. There's a Western. Um, so it's all, you know, it's all different stuff. Um, and then the work for hire stuff is, you know, whatever comes along and looks interesting.

[00:46:39] And, um, you know, there's some more stuff for Savage Sword of Conan and which is, you know, which to me is, is, um, you know, that's what I, Savage Sword of Conan is the thing that I kept, that I still read when I decided I was too old to read comics. You know, at the ripe old age of 14 or whatever I was. Um, you know, but I, I continued to read Savage Sword because, you know, there were naked women in it.

[00:47:07] Um, and, uh, and, you know, plus monsters that needed killing. Uh, so, you know, the fact that I've been able to come full circle from when I was 14 reading Savage Sword every month, uh, to actually having stories in Savage Sword of Conan. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. That's, um, so that's, that's all fun.

[00:47:27] And then I, you know, I also, I still work at, uh, Blizzard on the Diablo franchise and, um, that's a different, it's still visual storytelling. It's a different kind of storytelling, but it's all, you know, it's different, but it's the same. It's, you know, it's the same in that you're telling stories about characters and trying to evoke an emotional response from the audience.

[00:47:51] Um, but you're also, you know, I do, I do comics and it's me and five other people. Um. Right. And we make the thing and then we make the next one. You know, a month later we make another one. Um, for video games, it's me and, you know, 600 people, um, all pulling, all pulling on the oars in the same direction. And somehow, you know, everybody does a different thing.

[00:48:16] And at the end of four or five years, we, you know, we wind up with this, you know, billion dollar video game. Wow. Um, but one day ask for, for listeners who, if there is anybody who listens to the podcast, who let's say hasn't read a Ron Mars comic, you know, something that you've written. Is there, is there like one or, you know, two things?

[00:48:41] I'll give you a, like a top three of, here's, here's the top three Ron Mars comics that Ron Mars thinks you should read if you haven't. Man, I don't know. I, you know, I, I always feel like that's not my decision to make. It's the audience's decision. Um. Sure. Uh, and I, to me, the caveat is, um, there's the creator owned stuff and then there's the company owned stuff.

[00:49:07] Cause those are, those, those are two different approaches to a certain extent. Um, but I, you know, I'm very honestly pretty happy with most of what I've done. Um, there's not much I look back on except for my run on Thor and go, yeah, it didn't work out like it was supposed to. Um, generally pretty happy because I was able to work with, uh, and still am working with some great collaborators.

[00:49:33] Um, you're only as, honestly, as a, as a writer in this business, you are only as good as the person drawing the story. I, if I write a great script and I hand it to a lousy artist, um, and frankly, that is not happened very often, if at all. Um, the end of the day, it's a pretty lousy story. Just, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't work because the match isn't right.

[00:50:00] Um, and if I write a fairly mediocre script and they hand it to a really good artist, that's probably a pretty good story at the end of it. Because it, the artist elevates the whole thing. Um, so if I, if, if I have to pick one thing, um, it's one that's probably, that's not even a print anymore. It was a book I did at Dark Horse called, uh, Samurai Heaven and Earth, which is a, um, historical adventure. Um, shockingly starring a samurai.

[00:50:31] Uh, uh. Good title then. Yeah, yeah. Um, and it's, it's actually not in print anymore from Dark Horse, although I'm sure there's, there's, uh, there's, there are two collections, um, of it, uh, that I'm sure on eBay or probably still on Amazon.

[00:50:49] Um, and it's a, it's a historical, a samurai, uh, historical adventure, uh, that ultimately involves a samurai ending up in the court of Louis the 14th with the three musketeers. Um, and that's, that's probably my favorite thing. Um, because, because it's exactly what, it's exact, it's exactly what I wanted it to be. Uh, it's a creator-owned thing.

[00:51:15] Um, and I worked with, uh, Luke Ross on it. Um, and, uh, just, you know, every page is absolutely gorgeous. Um, we shot from Louis pencils, um, because there was no sense in inking them because they could, it couldn't possibly. We get better. Um, so that's, you know, of anything I've ever done, that's my favorite thing. But, you know, I think I've written 1,500 or 2,000 comics or something like that.

[00:51:44] So, um, we've, you know, there's, there's probably something out there for you. I've, I've. Oh, without a doubt. I mean, I just, I mean, I have, I, I certainly have things I will, I will put in the show notes for listeners to check out. But, um, I w I was just curious from you, you know, yourself, what, what it might be. But now I'm going to have to go try and try. I've never read that. So I'm going to have to go try and see if I can't track down Samurai, uh, Heaven and Earth. Samurai, Heaven and Earth. Uh, two volumes.

[00:52:13] And we had, we started on a third volume. Um, actually first issue got written. Luke did five covers. And then, uh, a lot of stuff changed at Dark Horse. We never got to finish it. And, um, someday we still intend. I know what story is. Yeah. Um, uh, like I said, first issue's written. And it's just a matter of Luke and I sort of figuring out our schedules and then figuring out where we want to do it.

[00:52:42] Um, but I definitely want to, that's one of those bucket list things where it's like, oh yeah, we got to, we got to finish that story. We got to, uh, put it, you know, put all those characters to bed. Cause right now they're right. Right now they're wandering. Uh, well, I don't want to spoil anything, but they're wandering in the desert. So. Okay. Um, are there other bucket list things? I mean, you know, 1500 to 2000 comic books.

[00:53:08] Is there, is there a character at, not in terms of the type of story or a story you want to tell. I mean, is, is there a character that, that exists out there that, you know, in terms of like somebody else's IP or, uh, some other story that you still, you know, want to be able to, to leave your mark on one day. Is there, is there, is there some elusive character out there? You know, I've been very fortunate in that I've gotten to write virtually every character that means something to me.

[00:53:38] Um, Yes. At least once somewhere. Um, you know, but got to write John Carter and Tarzan and Conan and, um, you know, most everybody in the Marvel and DC universes, Star Wars. Um, so there's, there's very little that, that I haven't at least been able to scratch the itch. Um, I would like to do a Star Trek story, like an original Star Trek story at some point.

[00:54:05] Um, to cross that off the bucket list. And, um, and the other answer I give to this question, um, is probably one, one that's not going to happen, but I've always loved Dr. Fate. Um, and, uh, Dr. Fate is awesome, but you know, nobody's going to buy a Dr. Fate monthly series. So, uh, gotten to write that character a couple of times in the background of panels, but other than that. Yeah. Uh, and then the-

[00:54:34] Dr. Fate's had his own series a few times, right? Yeah, but it never lasts. I mean, it's to a great extent, it's, it's, um, it's even, it's even less, you know, sales worthy than Dr. Strange. And Dr. Strange never supports his own series for very long, even though creators are, you know, we're all falling over each other to get to do Dr. Strange because it's just one of the coolest concepts. But in terms of, you know, keeping a, keeping a monthly series going, it's, you know, certainly not Batman or Spider-Man.

[00:55:03] Well, I think one of those times I was at Baltimore, I think I got you, I think, I think you wrote it to, to sign my copy of Dr. Strange Fate. Yeah, that's, that's honestly one of my favorite things. I mean, if you, if you can't find Samurai Heaven and Earth, you could do worse than, than, uh, find Dr. Strange Fate because, uh, you know, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez and Kevin Nolan plus Matt Hollingsworth on the colors. Um, that's one of my favorite issues ever because of the people I worked with.

[00:55:32] Um, so, you know, it was also just a crazy fun concept to, to smush together the Marvel and DC characters. Um, which I still sort of scratched my head and wondered like how we actually got away with that. But, um, different era, obviously when, when these, most of these characters were just comic book characters. They weren't, they weren't media icons. Right. I mean, dark, what is it? Dark Claw and Super Soldier and. Yeah.

[00:56:01] I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's nuts. I, I think the, um, the Amalgam Omnibus will be out next month from Marvel and well, DC handled it, uh, editorially. Okay. Okay.

[00:56:15] But, uh, yeah, uh, I, I contributed the, I think the, the forward and a bunch of essays that are in it and a bunch of stuff that were, that was in my files, um, left over from, from that era is in the back of the book.

[00:56:31] So there's about 200 pages of, of extras in the back of that Omnibus and, um, some strange fate designs and, uh, a lot of, a lot of stuff dating from that era that I thought would never see print again. But, um, we packed as much of it into the Omnibus as we could. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I, I, I, I love all of those. I mean, you know, I think that's, that was all just a lot of fun.

[00:57:00] I mean, and they were good, they were, I, I, I liked them, but they were good stories, you know? Yeah, it was. And I liked the art. Again, it was a, it was an era in which Marvel and DC needed each other, um, for sales, to keep stores open and all that. So the, the level of detente, um, and the fact that both publishers were still in New York at that point, um, you know, not, not 20 blocks from each other.

[00:57:25] Um, and, you know, everybody from, everybody at Marvel and DC knew each other. The staffs, staffs knew each other, um, played softball against each other, went to the same bars. So it was a, it was a different era than we have now, certainly. Um, yeah. The corporate parents were not, not as, uh, overbearing, uh, in those days because these were not, you know, multimedia platforms that were worth billions of dollars. They were just comics. Yeah.

[00:57:56] Well, uh, I would be nice to see if you, uh, you know, to get your, your, your doctor, uh, your, your doctor fate comic one day, you know, maybe it, maybe it'd be ripe for a DC black label. Dr. Fate story. Yeah. The black label books are interesting because they, they are ones where you go, not like a regular comic, but maybe support that for six issues. Uh, which is cool.

[00:58:21] I think I, I love the fact that DC is doing some, doing some stuff that's not quite so, you know, slam dunk and obvious, uh, you know, obvious in terms of the, the retail sales. Yeah. Um, well, Ron, I, I really appreciate you coming on. I mean, this has just been a real treat for me and I think our listeners will enjoy it too.

[00:58:45] I mean, you've, you have written so many different comic books and a lot of my favorites and it's always a joy whenever I get to see a, at Baltimore and, um, get something signed. Uh, my brother's a big fan as well. I, my brother, Bobby, who goes to Baltimore with me, he's the cryptid creator corners, number one, most dedicated fan. I say that every episode because Bobby listens to every episode. Um, but he's a big fan of your silver surfer. And I think, um, there was a star Wars one. You did Darth Maul, right? It had to be your Darth Maul. Yeah, I did Darth Maul.

[00:59:14] Bobby's a big Darth Maul fan. I did, uh, Darth Maul versus Darth Vader and, uh, Star Wars Tales. Yeah. Um, yeah, I've been, like I said, I got to play with a lot of the toys in the toy box and I'm forever grateful. Is there a star, you said Star Trek. I wanted to ask, is there, cause I'm a big Star Trek fan. I mean, the next generation was like huge for me and I've, um, uh, is there a Star Trek character though? If you, like, if you got to tell a story about anybody in any Star Trek.

[00:59:43] It's, for me, it's original series cause that, um, cause that's what I grew up with. Um, every, every weeknight, 10 to 11 out of New York City, six o'clock, Star Trek was on. Um, and that's what, you know, you come in from playing outside and, uh, have dinner and then watch Star Trek. Uh, it was, uh, it was the ritual and it went that way for years.

[01:00:08] And I would watch those episodes over and over and over so that, you know, that completely, um, um, that, that stuff is completely ingrained in me. So the, the, I like most of the other Star Trek series. Um, it's, it's a world that I really, I really enjoy. But to me, the, you know, the stuff that I think the stuff you grow up with is always the stuff that means the most. So for me, it's original series and it's, you know, it's Kirk bones and, uh, Kirk bones and Spock.

[01:00:39] Like that's the, that's the Holy Trinity of, of, of that franchise. Um, yeah. So, um, someday, uh, I want to, you know, even if it's a 10 page story just to, you know, just to, that's one of the things that's so cool about this business and doing this as a, as a living is you get to, you know, you get to have those touchstones that meant something that meant a lot to you as a kid.

[01:01:06] You know, for me, Star Wars, Conan, Star Trek, um, you know, those are to great extent why I do what I do. I have, for the most part, never had a real job in my life. So, um, you know, so, but you will, you know, you're, you are the, um, you know, you're the, you're the sort of the sum of your, of your influences and, and to get, to get a chance to play with those influences.

[01:01:34] And add to that, um, add to that tapestry a little bit is really cool. Well, that's awesome, Ron. Um, again, I, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. Um, this has been fantastic. I'm going to put links in the show notes to, you know, your website. And so if people can find you on social media and I'm going to track down samurai heaven and earth. And, uh, I'll, I'll make, I'll put a link to that amalgam book too. Cause I think folks are really going to like that.

[01:02:00] Cause I know a lot of, uh, in the circle that I'm on in social media and comics that there's always talk of, um, there's amalgam comics. So, and, uh, anything else you have coming out, uh, would always love to have you on to talk about whatever it is you're working on, Ron. Thanks a lot. Sounds good. We'll do what you appreciate it. Uh, my pleasure. I appreciate everything. Uh, listeners, let me know what it is you're reading, especially if you check out any of Ron's, uh, comics. Uh, let me know what it is you like, what you've read.

[01:02:31] Um, and, uh, yeah, I appreciate you listening. Uh, thanks a lot. And I'll see you next time. This is Byron O'Neill, one of your hosts of the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by Comic Book Yeti. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that good stuff. It lets us know how we're doing, and more importantly, how we can improve. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the Cryptid Creator Corner,

[01:03:00] maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast, Into the Comics Cave. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. I'm you