Sarah Andersen talks Adulthood Is A Gift

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:00:07] So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:11] Y'all Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again

[00:00:14] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media

[00:00:21] My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators

[00:00:24] We know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing

[00:00:29] Another friend chimes in are you gonna make maps?

[00:00:32] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together. So I guess question mark

[00:00:37] It was then that I discovered Arkham Forge if you don't know who Arkham Forge is

[00:00:42] They have everything you need to make your TT RPG more fun and immersive

[00:00:46] Allowing you to build play and export animated maps including in-person fog of war capability

[00:00:52] But let your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you the DM get the full picture

[00:00:59] Now I'm set to easily build high res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign

[00:01:06] That's a win every day in my book. Check them out at Arkham Forge

[00:01:10] Dot-com and use the discount code Yeti 5 to get $5 off

[00:01:14] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show

[00:01:19] I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a Goblin warlock just to get even

[00:01:24] Hello everybody and welcome to the Crypto Creator Corner

[00:01:26] I'm Byron O'Neill your host today, and I'm joined by a guest doing the double as a returning guest on the show

[00:01:32] She is an Isar nominee a Ringo winner in a New York Times best-selling cartoonist

[00:01:36] And my wife could care less generally about comics

[00:01:39] But she knows who she is because of course it has pockets. So Sarah Anderson welcome back. How are you doing? Thank you?

[00:01:45] I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing well trying to

[00:01:49] Enjoy the last bit of summer here. It's starting to feel a little bit like fall

[00:01:55] So yeah, I'm happy falls my favorite season. So I'm really looking forward to it

[00:01:59] Yeah, me too. I love it when like the spooky vibes slowly start to enter and you're like, yeah, it's coming

[00:02:05] Yes, exactly planning out my October watch list my son

[00:02:09] There's a teenager and he now has a an interesting creature feature horror movies

[00:02:14] Which kind of is the pocket that I love so starting to make a list and hopefully we'll get to watch a few during

[00:02:20] Those are the older ones right the

[00:02:23] Like the lagoon creature

[00:02:25] Any creature feature like I just love monster movies like I don't know what it is like as I've

[00:02:32] gotten older and I guess become a dad the that's like the slasher genre and

[00:02:39] The dystopian kind of horror stuff

[00:02:41] Even the like body horror stuff doesn't appeal to me as much in terms of film

[00:02:45] But I love monster movies and I always will so he's gotten into Godzilla

[00:02:50] And so that's kind of the I guess was the gateway for looking at other things and hey, what do we want to watch?

[00:02:57] So yeah, yeah, I totally feel you I feel like when you start to get into horror or scary movies

[00:03:02] You just watch everything and I'm kind of the same way now too where I'm like

[00:03:07] I'm not really interested in like a dark serial killer movie. I'd rather see something that has

[00:03:12] Something fresh and new in it. Yeah. Well vampires never tire. That's that's my thing

[00:03:18] I could watch any vampire movie. Oh, yeah, me too

[00:03:21] Well, it's been a big week for you

[00:03:23] As I see that the copyright infringement case you're part of is greenlit to proceed

[00:03:28] So that's exciting like you and nine other plaintiffs as I understand this have an ongoing lawsuit against stable diffusion

[00:03:35] It also includes stability AI mid-journey deviant art and runway AI

[00:03:40] Could you give me a little background on kind of how this whole thing came about and for the listeners and we're at with

[00:03:46] Thanks. Sure. So it's a very complicated issue

[00:03:49] But basically we filed the lawsuit because in order for these generative AI systems to work

[00:03:55] They need huge swaths of data and in that data is our copyrighted work

[00:04:01] And we did not consent to that and I have many reasons why but I did want to mention that more recently

[00:04:08] There's been a lot of reporting about how much

[00:04:11] how much

[00:04:13] Generative AI causes emissions and so it's pretty

[00:04:18] Terrible for the environment and I don't want my work to be used for that

[00:04:22] I mean, that's sort of a side note to the many other reasons but

[00:04:26] basically it's a copyright case and

[00:04:29] We officially are moving forward into a phase called discovery where we will be requesting

[00:04:36] Documents for each other. So it's a very important phase because it's information gathering and

[00:04:42] We had good news basically all of our copyright claims were able to move forward

[00:04:47] There was it was trimmed down a bit

[00:04:50] I still haven't had a chance to really go through everything

[00:04:55] But I believe like DMCA was cut

[00:04:57] but the heart of our argument is there and it's going forward and it's a really big deal and we were very very happy with the ruling

[00:05:06] Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah

[00:05:07] I've been trying to educate myself so I can speak more intelligently on the topic of generative AI which I open admit

[00:05:13] I absolutely loathe

[00:05:15] But it's unacceptable to me to be ignorant about it and in that most recent rabble trail after reading through the court documents on this case

[00:05:21] Led to researching about hopefully I'm getting the acronym right is lanion. I guess is that the short?

[00:05:27] Yeah, and that's those are the training sets are short for large-scale artificial intelligence open network

[00:05:32] That's a mouthful specifically the lanion B set and the sheer scale of this technology

[00:05:38] And how it's been invested in and ratcheted up is just mind-boggling to me. It's as if these folks have never seen Terminator

[00:05:45] The the data sets were first released in August of 2021 with the figure

[00:05:49] I read said that they had used

[00:05:51] 400 million image caption pairs and the B version launched in March of 22 has

[00:05:57] 5.85 billion that's with a bee so the artistic is

[00:06:02] Really and and I'm admittedly feeling a little bit overwhelmed myself

[00:06:08] All this fighting, you know for what I firmly believe in theft in

[00:06:13] Now we're in the courts and it just feels like it hasn't diminished or dissuaded the progression of it at all

[00:06:19] You know these numbers, you know are just staggering so please tell me you're a little bit more optimistic about it than I am at

[00:06:25] this point

[00:06:26] Yeah, I am optimistic and good something to consider is that these cases take a really long time

[00:06:32] So establishing precedent is a lengthy process. So I think that's why you see

[00:06:39] You know, especially for an issue that doesn't have any existing precedent

[00:06:44] so that's that's why I think you see these AI companies running forward is because they're

[00:06:50] They're sort of using this gray area time to do what they want

[00:06:54] But that doesn't mean that there aren't people working on setting limitations

[00:06:59] It's unfortunately just a slow process and we didn't really have a lot to

[00:07:05] Stop them or strike them down immediately. It's something that has to be decided in the courts

[00:07:10] but I personally am optimistic and not just

[00:07:14] In the legal terms, but also just in the sentiment that I see I've seen a major shift and I think I

[00:07:23] think at the beginning it was very novel and

[00:07:25] It was a lot about art and so artists were very

[00:07:31] Concerned but I think people are starting to realize more and more that it's not just about art

[00:07:36] It's also their data and they've seen the way that AI has started to infiltrate society in ways that aren't

[00:07:44] So positive people have seen deep fakes and fake news and all kinds of negative things

[00:07:50] and it's now kind of commonplace and

[00:07:53] I've seen a growing backlash. So like I said, I think it's a slow process

[00:07:58] But I really am optimistic and I'm very happy with the recent

[00:08:03] ruling

[00:08:04] Yeah, it was a little bit scary for me when I dove into it

[00:08:07] Just that feeling of a lack of safeguards, you know, I read that the Stanford Internet Observatory found

[00:08:13] Over a thousand validated links in the data set that referenced child sexual abuse materials

[00:08:18] And I just broke my heart right that they're they're using it for that purpose

[00:08:22] But you know, I recently read a piece that interviewed you that you were talking specifically about Metis AI training and calling

[00:08:29] Choice and illusion, you know, what's your opinion on the best way creatives can protect themselves online?

[00:08:35] Yeah, so while we're working on making it

[00:08:40] Impossible that is my hope for AI companies to just scrape and use our work without consent

[00:08:47] We unfortunately don't have a clear answer on that yet

[00:08:51] So what I would say is that artists should use glaze and nightshade and they're two different

[00:08:58] Programs, I'm not sure if they call them programs but

[00:09:02] That sort of mask and distort your work to generative AI and night night shade actually

[00:09:09] Poisons the data set

[00:09:11] So I unfortunately, I don't use it all the time because it's not as strong with

[00:09:17] Very simple styles, but it works for like

[00:09:20] 95% of art and I highly suggest you use it and it it just has a very very subtle

[00:09:27] Like glowy filter effect. It's barely noticeable

[00:09:30] Yeah, and it really works and I would I would recommend that all artists use it

[00:09:36] Oh, yeah

[00:09:37] I'll check that out and definitely put links in the show notes because I was unfamiliar with those

[00:09:41] I mean it makes perfect sense if it adds a bit of a blur because most of those

[00:09:45] Those generative AI programs are using a Gaussian blur

[00:09:49] Anyway, as I understand it with it. So I could see how that messes things up

[00:09:53] Anyway, I don't want to devolve this completely in the interview focused on AI

[00:09:57] Thank you for fighting the good fight Lord knows that somebody must

[00:10:01] Please if you're listening to as an artist or creative make sure you register your work with a copyright office

[00:10:07] It seems seriously archaic. I know at this point, but at least it gives you some groundwork

[00:10:12] For fighting and protecting yourself

[00:10:14] How much is debatable? But you know, I would argue that's worth it

[00:10:18] But on a cheery note

[00:10:20] I guess the the next obvious question would be before we jump into the book

[00:10:24] How is all this affecting your work?

[00:10:28] Um, it depends, you know with a case like this

[00:10:33] Sometimes there will be huge lolls while it's being

[00:10:39] While the lawyers are working on it and I don't have anything to do and then at times it's like a second job

[00:10:44] so

[00:10:46] I've definitely felt an impact like I had a I had a recent sort of low with my comics

[00:10:52] Where I just wasn't writing well that usually happens when I'm overwhelmed

[00:10:56] That's something I've learned as I've gotten older is that art blocks don't just kind of happen

[00:11:00] There's usually an emotional component to it. I think sometimes the pessimism kind of seeps into my writing

[00:11:08] Um, or not well, I I don't want to say pessimism because I actually am optimistic about how things will turn out

[00:11:15] but I think just the weight of

[00:11:17] everything that's happening not just with

[00:11:20] AI but also in the world definitely

[00:11:23] Has an effect on my writing and I'm sort of out of that

[00:11:27] low now, but

[00:11:29] You know, it's it's like artists can't exist

[00:11:33] In the world and just tune it out and focus on their work because it's such an emotional process. So it's sort of

[00:11:39] They sort of play into each other. So I definitely notice

[00:11:44] I I noticed some

[00:11:46] Like darker moods affecting how I write and that's unfortunately just part of it for me

[00:11:51] All right, let's take a quick break

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[00:12:43] Stay tuned to this space for more exciting news from the growing bards family. Let's get back to the show

[00:12:53] What have you found that helps you kind of reset yourself and kind of focus on making people laugh?

[00:12:58] Which is what you're known for? Yeah

[00:13:00] uh taking a break

[00:13:03] I used to think you just had to work through art blocks and now i'm like it's the complete opposite

[00:13:09] You just have to stop and breathe

[00:13:12] And um let that burn out kind of burn itself out and then come back

[00:13:19] And for me, um

[00:13:21] It's also sort of refocusing and writing about what I love

[00:13:24] So I recently had a comic do well and it was about eldritch monsters, which of course it was

[00:13:31] yeah, and

[00:13:32] you know like when I sort of

[00:13:35] Refocus myself and think about

[00:13:38] What do I love to write about who do I love to write about?

[00:13:41] I I often find myself back and kind of like a

[00:13:44] Who gear placed?

[00:13:46] I mean that makes perfect sense to me

[00:13:49] I was reading too about how you started embracing yoga and meditation

[00:13:52] I've been on a personal streak of meditating at least 15 minutes every day since september 8th of last year

[00:13:58] Which is wow great. Yeah, it's been a big help. What's your routine look like? What have you found?

[00:14:03] Yeah, so I used to do a little bit every day and now I do

[00:14:07] I go to like a class three times a week

[00:14:10] Which to me is if you knew me sort of before I did this is shocking and incredible that I would do this because I used to be

[00:14:18] A person who like did not work out or take care of myself at all

[00:14:22] And that was something I actually learned during the pandemic because I had all this time and I

[00:14:29] I started noticing more things about myself and noticing that

[00:14:34] drawing for

[00:14:36] every day over a decade was starting to wear on my body

[00:14:40] and yeah, I

[00:14:42] Started like four years ago now and it's

[00:14:45] Now it's like a crucial cornerstone of my life or my own health

[00:14:50] So I think there's kind of this like stereotype that I very much embodied about artists that they

[00:14:56] Are not taking care of themselves and and I understand it's like you don't need to become

[00:15:02] Like a 10k runner overnight

[00:15:05] You don't you don't need to become like a fitness influencer

[00:15:08] But like start with a little bit like in the pandemic

[00:15:11] I did 10 minutes of yoga for day and now i'm able to do like an hour class

[00:15:16] So yeah highly encourage artists to take care of themselves a little bit

[00:15:21] I would I would love to get back in into a yoga class

[00:15:25] When we were in washington, I started going a friend invited me and I had all these

[00:15:31] Expectations of what a yoga class is going to look like. Oh, I'm going to be out of shape

[00:15:34] everybody there's going to be like younger and be able to do

[00:15:39] All these things that I can't and I show up and I think the next closest person to me was a good 15 years

[00:15:46] Older and that was the friend that invited me

[00:15:48] All these old people at the Y doing yoga and then immediately it was great and I felt like oh, I'm good. This works

[00:15:55] Yeah problem

[00:15:56] Right like I think there's kind of a stereotype about who does yoga and how they do yoga

[00:16:01] But the class I go to is kind of the same like of course

[00:16:04] There's people that are incredible and are doing splits and all kinds of things

[00:16:08] But most of the class are people

[00:16:11] That are sort of somewhere in between and it's a very diverse group. So

[00:16:16] um

[00:16:17] Yeah, if people are interested into in getting into yoga, I think

[00:16:21] What those classes look like might not be exactly what you have in your head

[00:16:26] I think yoga has like a an image lately

[00:16:30] Yeah, yeah for sure. Well switching gears you have a new book coming out. Yay

[00:16:34] Yeah, so this is volume five of collected sarah scribbles adulthood is a gift

[00:16:39] There are a hundred or so illustrations and 15 essays in the project

[00:16:43] I get a chance to read through the advance you sent me and and these essays although fairly short are really amazing

[00:16:49] You know, I want to start with a transition here though because

[00:16:52] We've gone from adulthood as a myth in volume one to adulthood is a gift in volume five

[00:16:57] You know, the first volume was 2016 and this will be late 2024

[00:17:01] You know, what changed as you've transitioned to

[00:17:04] like suggesting age aging was fake news to embracing the inevitable passage of time as a place to discover joy

[00:17:13] Yeah, I mean you said it. I think almost better than I could but the the truth is that I've really grown up over the past

[00:17:21] decade or so and

[00:17:24] I the whole book is sort of a reflection on that and I still sort of believe in this adulthood as a myth idea because

[00:17:30] As I've gotten older the things I expected didn't necessarily happen or pan out

[00:17:36] but

[00:17:37] In a good way, you know, like I've really come to

[00:17:41] embrace being a real adult and

[00:17:44] The book is basically about how I came to be that and

[00:17:50] it's a

[00:17:50] It's a celebration of that sometimes

[00:17:54] awkward sometimes painful

[00:17:56] journey, but it's also

[00:17:59] Yeah, it's it's joyful

[00:18:01] Yeah, I found there's different phases and passages of life as I get older

[00:18:06] You gain the wisdom and you care less about

[00:18:08] Physically how you look at least that that's me, you know, you just very comfortable with yourself

[00:18:13] So when you were putting this book together

[00:18:15] Was the intention to try to encapsulate these different phases of your life or is kind of the

[00:18:20] Throughline just a natural effect because it's such a personal chronology for you

[00:18:24] I think it's sort of a natural effect

[00:18:27] I flipped through the book again the other day and I remember writing some of the comics and essays and I can really

[00:18:34] See that exact point in time and I was really writing

[00:18:38] my

[00:18:39] True feelings about being at that point. So there was a there was like a phase I went through

[00:18:45] Writing wise when I think I was like 28 or 29

[00:18:49] Where I was writing like geriatric millennials versus

[00:18:54] Young condescending gen Z

[00:18:56] And it was funny because

[00:18:58] At that moment gen Z had was having its

[00:19:01] Rise and its moment and I was feeling that and trying to reflect on that in

[00:19:06] Like a positive and humorous way. So I feel like there are so many little snap shots of

[00:19:12] The journey upwards towards adulthood and

[00:19:16] Yeah, it was fun to look back and sort of remember where I was at in those moments

[00:19:22] Yeah, one recent piece made me cackle when you were covering the latest tiktok dance trend

[00:19:26] I know tiktok makes me feel old, but I'm close to two days two decades older than you are which absolutely pains me to say

[00:19:33] Do you do you ever try to embrace the slang in your work?

[00:19:35] I know bet glow up and chuggy like sound great rolling off the tongue

[00:19:40] But I know i'm cool. I'm not i'm cool for a gen extra though, and I'll happily stay in my lane

[00:19:46] Oh, yeah, I I definitely

[00:19:49] I think if I tried to sort of fake being a hip gen z or they would smell it immediately

[00:19:54] I I don't think unless a word felt natural to me. I don't think it would make its way in there

[00:20:01] also my my audience is so

[00:20:04] like

[00:20:05] Definitely millennial when I see my insights the age group is always exactly the same like

[00:20:10] Gen Z never really

[00:20:12] Came on the ride with me

[00:20:15] So they would know

[00:20:17] They would know everyone would know and be like no, ma'am

[00:20:21] Oh, you pulled out the ma'am

[00:20:24] Have you gotten ma'am now? That's I I don't know. I haven't really taken notice of that

[00:20:30] Now i'm gonna now i'm gonna see next time I get ma'am'd i'm gonna be like

[00:20:33] I get served so much time so many times. I'm just like, oh no, I'm not old. It's awful

[00:20:39] Well, what's there a sign of respect?

[00:20:43] To be fair

[00:20:44] I I guess like okay, you've made it this far old guy

[00:20:49] You're still around

[00:20:51] You have made it this far. Yeah

[00:20:53] Well, yes. Yes, it's better than the alternative

[00:20:55] Was was there was there a point in time where examining those generational differences just seemed specifically appealing or was it as simple as

[00:21:03] You're looking out there and you feel lost on tiktok, right?

[00:21:07] Yeah, I think it was that

[00:21:10] I my work had been branded so clearly as the millennial

[00:21:15] girl comics like I remember media and

[00:21:18] I believe even my publisher it was always like these are comics for millennials

[00:21:24] So I was always very aware of the fact that to other people my writing really reflected

[00:21:32] this generation and so

[00:21:35] For most of my 20s, it felt like

[00:21:38] I was getting talked slash written about very much

[00:21:42] In that way and that was my identity and then when this other generation started to rise

[00:21:48] I was like, how do I

[00:21:51] Like how do I deal with this? How do I write about the fact that the millennial generation is now no longer the youngest and

[00:22:00] um not being nitpicked as much anymore, but

[00:22:05] um, yeah, it was it was it was so core to my my brand and identity that I think I couldn't help but

[00:22:12] concentrate that a lot

[00:22:13] As you you've now said rise twice so I feel like it's almost like a horror movie the rise

[00:22:23] Well, how much of the specific project was produced during the the covid lockdown

[00:22:28] I'm curious how much of an imprint that had. I think a lot of it

[00:22:32] Will be I think the

[00:22:35] later

[00:22:36] Days of the covid lockdown

[00:22:39] I had a book come out during lockdown. I think 2021

[00:22:43] That had a lot of sort of the early days in it

[00:22:47] so

[00:22:48] there's definitely some

[00:22:50] um

[00:22:51] Some comics that were made in the

[00:22:54] In the full blown lockdown days of the pandemic in there, but um

[00:22:59] Yeah, I would say maybe half and half. It's it's also sort of

[00:23:03] comics when

[00:23:04] Comics I was writing when we were moving out

[00:23:07] Of the more lockdown era. Okay. Was the the covid stuff a little bit more of the cryptic club? I mean, I could see how

[00:23:15] Isolation and some of those things were played with with the monsters and yeah, totally

[00:23:20] I I I believe all of cryptic club was written during the

[00:23:26] serious lockdown days

[00:23:27] I'm trying to remember because I remember I was doing

[00:23:31] line work and

[00:23:33] Blots and color sort of right

[00:23:36] We were still wearing masks, but we were going out a bit

[00:23:39] So I basically used the pandemic to write cryptic club, which like you said is very appropriate because it is about isolated monsters

[00:23:46] Yeah, for sure. Well, it was very interesting time

[00:23:50] For all of us, you know with self analysis and evaluation all all these things of of getting inside yourself and staring at

[00:23:58] At who we are so how do you feel like it changed you and kind of thusly sarah scribbles kind of moving out of it?

[00:24:05] Yeah, I mean

[00:24:07] I understand that

[00:24:09] what i'm about to say comes from a very

[00:24:11] privileged perspective, but I actually

[00:24:15] I learned so much about myself and my needs during the pandemic because when we were talking about yoga earlier

[00:24:22] Before the pandemic I had always been in this really intense cycle of making a book and then touring it for a long time and doing

[00:24:29] Comic-con so I was going from place to place a lot and I hadn't really sat still

[00:24:34] But i'm actually i'm so introverted that sitting still

[00:24:38] Is usually a good and productive thing for me even over long periods of time

[00:24:44] so

[00:24:45] It really was a big moment of change for me

[00:24:48] It was I think the first time where I really learned how to take care of myself and to cook and

[00:24:53] Maybe I was definitely behind on that being like

[00:24:56] 28 29 but it um it gave me the space to

[00:25:03] To reflect and learn those things about myself and what I needed

[00:25:06] But I also understand, you know that

[00:25:10] That was a very dark time for a lot of people and that's sort of the best case scenario

[00:25:14] I was in a comfortable apartment. I was safe. I I didn't get sick for I didn't get cove it until

[00:25:22] People stopped wearing masks outside. So I was very fortunate

[00:25:27] Well, you recently talked about a transition from a focus on internal turmoil to being more present in the outside world

[00:25:34] Right? So I think that's kind of a natural extension of this coming out of cove it

[00:25:38] You know as as sarah scribbles is so autobiographical

[00:25:42] How how would we see the the imprint and the impact in this book specifically?

[00:25:47] Yeah, you know, I was 19 when I started sarah scribbles and you can see a lot of

[00:25:53] confusion and cynicism

[00:25:56] Self criticism in the early comics and I was really trying to work out my place in the world

[00:26:03] um and internally and you see that

[00:26:07] The first I think half of sarah scribbles is really just all about me and my emotions

[00:26:13] and

[00:26:14] As I've kind of grown up

[00:26:16] I've noticed I'm less interested in that and more

[00:26:20] interested in reflecting things

[00:26:23] That I love or mythology or things I read and see around me and you see a lot of that

[00:26:29] In later sarah scribbles and in this book like you see

[00:26:32] More characters you see dracula. You see biblically accurate angels and that's sort of me

[00:26:40] Uh leaning into the things I'm interested in that are more external

[00:26:44] and

[00:26:46] um, I think it's a sort of a shift from

[00:26:48] Writing about myself, which I know to writing about

[00:26:51] My interests in the outside world, which I love so write what you know to write what you love

[00:26:58] Yeah, it's it's got to be weird because for someone self described as an introvert and with you know some social anxiety

[00:27:05] Then as you're coming out of this you're finding your legs with this you're transitioning

[00:27:10] You find yourself in the middle of these big culture wars, right?

[00:27:14] So there's the ai bit and the alt-right manipulating your stuff

[00:27:17] You know a fair bit of the focus of the the 15 essays in the book is it's introspective

[00:27:22] It's it's looking backwards

[00:27:23] Has that been a cathartic process to write them and something you found that gives you a bit of a release

[00:27:29] You know having been wrapped up in these things you never asked to be wrapped up in and probably never would have seen impacting your life

[00:27:36] Yeah, absolutely. I think you see a lot of

[00:27:39] Breaking of naivety in some of the essays and some of the things

[00:27:44] I have seen and experienced as a cartoonist because when I started I was just 19 and I was so um

[00:27:52] Just so naive and I really I didn't

[00:27:56] I think feminism wasn't discussed as much as it is today

[00:28:01] Back then like I didn't have a good understanding even of what feminism was when I started the comic

[00:28:07] And then I sort of kept bumping into things and running into things and things would happen on the news and it

[00:28:13] forced me to reckon with that and

[00:28:16] I feel like I have a much more well rounded view of the world and what it means to actually be

[00:28:23] a good person

[00:28:25] and to be responsible and

[00:28:28] I think you see that in some of the essays and

[00:28:31] um just reflecting on some

[00:28:33] dark truths that I've unfortunately uncovered in my

[00:28:37] time as a cartoonist and

[00:28:41] You know, what I will say is although it was challenging

[00:28:44] I'm really grateful for a lot of those lessons because I feel like it has

[00:28:50] It has made it

[00:28:53] It is made it easier for me to make decisions like joining the

[00:28:59] lawsuit

[00:29:00] It has made it easier for me to make those choices with

[00:29:04] Uh, maybe I'm like

[00:29:06] touting myself up a bit but like but with grace and conviction

[00:29:10] you know

[00:29:11] Having a full understanding of why I do something and

[00:29:15] And yeah, I sort of understand my my place in my role in the world

[00:29:19] A bit better now, although I won't say I'm perfect. I still I still sort of have a tough time navigating

[00:29:26] like what does it mean to

[00:29:28] have a big platform and what sort of things I write about and

[00:29:33] um, definitely not perfect and still

[00:29:36] I I sort of am constantly thinking about

[00:29:39] how to

[00:29:41] How to be responsible with my platform

[00:29:45] so do you ever feel

[00:29:47] Sort of trapped in a representational box by that I mean

[00:29:51] You're the millennial cartoonist and you know the feminism for

[00:29:56] Millennials looks very different than feminism in gen z, you know

[00:30:00] Yeah

[00:30:00] These con social concepts and as they morph and they march on and you know the view on them changes

[00:30:07] So do you ever is that ever a conflict an eternal conflict on representing, you know your brand over yourself?

[00:30:16] Um, hmm. That's an interesting question. I think

[00:30:20] When I think about those issues I have a bit more

[00:30:25] Humility now and I think that sort of that might come off as that I'm being too quiet

[00:30:31] but I often feel like

[00:30:34] I've seen so many things and so many changes that I feel like I don't necessarily have all the answers

[00:30:39] So I've become more of a listener

[00:30:42] And and when I do take action, I try to do so

[00:30:47] responsibly and with something that I feel will have tangible impact as opposed to

[00:30:52] um

[00:30:53] This this isn't the case for other people but for me sometimes just

[00:30:57] Reacting to something might be just out of ego because I want people to know I have a certain

[00:31:03] Dance or something. So I've sort of I've gotten a bit slower and quieter with how I do things because

[00:31:10] Like I said, I I don't feel like I have all the answers and I feel like I need to

[00:31:15] Be a lot more thoughtful about things these days and not so reactive and that isn't to say that people

[00:31:22] Who are more like consistently outspoken?

[00:31:26] I think that's amazing. It's just I've sort of

[00:31:30] I've shifted modes a bit

[00:31:33] Well, yeah, it's a little harder when you have the fan base that you do to then delete that twitter

[00:31:39] Ex post that you regret

[00:31:41] I've deleted a few I was like, nope. Nope. I do not need to wait in these waters that this is not good for me

[00:31:47] right and you know, the internet is very reactive and

[00:31:52] I just

[00:31:53] I

[00:31:54] Maybe I'm repeating myself a bit, but I really do want to be responsible and

[00:32:00] Do things in a way that to me feel

[00:32:05] Feel like they will have the impact that I want it to have without

[00:32:09] causing

[00:32:11] Like a

[00:32:12] Twitter meltdown. It's it's gotten a bit

[00:32:14] I feel like it's gotten a bit harder to navigate as things have gotten a bit more

[00:32:18] Reactive and I understand why because we live in times that are so

[00:32:24] Challenging and it's such a time of upheaval and threatening for many groups of people

[00:32:29] So I understand but I also try to navigate that very carefully

[00:32:33] Well, I'm curious about your relationship kind of to your medium

[00:32:36] Which to me isn't just you know the cartoons themselves, but it has always been social media and that feedback loop

[00:32:42] Now it's gotten increasingly toxic lately and a fair number of comics community pros

[00:32:47] I know personally just to have left that world entirely

[00:32:49] You know in the in the beginning that feedback loop got you from got you into the the wider world

[00:32:56] And the exposure that seemed pivotal. Do you finding your voice as a young artist?

[00:32:59] So how has your relationship to it changed?

[00:33:03] Yeah, it's a great question because

[00:33:06] I I have two very true feelings about it

[00:33:10] Which is one is that I'm very grateful for it and seeing

[00:33:13] Working in this mode where I post a comic and then I see an immediate reaction to it

[00:33:17] It really keeps me on my toes like I think it's made me

[00:33:21] A far better cartoonist than if I personally

[00:33:24] Were a newspaper

[00:33:26] Cartoonist because I sort of I see that feedback and I want to play into it

[00:33:31] And I I want to do better the next time and so I have a lot of gratitude

[00:33:35] And the other side of that is that that is really stressful

[00:33:38] It is really stressful

[00:33:41] And like I was talking about earlier it comes with a lot of responsibility

[00:33:45] It's a complicated answer which is like

[00:33:48] I'm grateful for it and I think it's made me a better writer, but it also stresses me out

[00:33:53] I'm sure it's a complicated issue

[00:33:55] Yeah, you know, you know as creators look for for finding

[00:33:59] Different venues to interact with fans, you know where they can insert

[00:34:02] Exit greater control over all that noise, right?

[00:34:05] It's has reducing your avail availability seemed appealing or is that you know interaction

[00:34:12] Truly essential to you as a creator at this point. It it depends. Um, like I said, I really

[00:34:19] I I can work in both modes, but

[00:34:23] I'm like november-ish. I'm gonna start a new book in a different series

[00:34:29] And I think I'll be gone for like a year

[00:34:31] Wow

[00:34:32] Yeah, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to it because

[00:34:38] I think sometimes just for me personally

[00:34:41] It is better to step away especially when

[00:34:45] There's so many things happening and so much attention

[00:34:49] Like I I think a lot of people might relate to the feeling of

[00:34:52] Being in a fine mood and then logging on and instantly something making you upset or angry

[00:34:59] And I think maybe that component I'm looking forward to just bowing out of for a bit

[00:35:05] But I don't want people to interpret it as

[00:35:09] Not having gratitude for my audience because I really feel like I'm

[00:35:13] So fortunate to have like a very kind and funny

[00:35:16] readership

[00:35:17] Yeah, um, but I feel like anyone could sort of understand and relate to the fact that

[00:35:23] Being online a lot these days can definitely be a challenge

[00:35:28] So

[00:35:28] I read hello darkness and that's the the flagship of ony's relaunch of the

[00:35:33] Oh, sorry. That's boom studios and I read the the flagship of ony's relaunch of the ec line epitaphs from the abyss

[00:35:41] In the same evening to get a comparison feel for both

[00:35:44] Um, so you just were talking about an other project. So you're being pulled in this direction

[00:35:51] So how did first of all, how did you get involved with hello darkness?

[00:35:54] Um at all, right? So I've always done horror adjacent work, but never direct horror

[00:36:00] So I've done cryptic club and fangs. So I've written about spooky things

[00:36:04] Yeah, but I've never really tried my hand at horror and

[00:36:08] At the beginning of this year

[00:36:10] I had just finished adulthood as a gift and had some

[00:36:13] Face and I told my agent

[00:36:15] Like just send some emails and see what's out there

[00:36:18] See if there's any projects I can jump into and hello darkness came up immediately

[00:36:23] And I was like I wanted to try horror but been too scared

[00:36:29] And so it gave me the opportunity to sort of soft launch and experiment and try it out

[00:36:36] And um the editor on that project is very

[00:36:39] Encouraging and forgiving. He was just like just do whatever feels right. I was like, okay, this is

[00:36:46] Great because I can sort of just try

[00:36:49] And I tried and I was like, I've no idea what it's going to be like to try to write something that's scary

[00:36:55] And to my surprise it wasn't

[00:36:58] dissimilar from writing a punchline

[00:37:01] Like a joke because it sort of you have to have the same emotional twist slash hit thing happening

[00:37:08] and

[00:37:09] It has sort of a rhythm to it

[00:37:11] And I was surprised at how similar it was being being funny and being scarier not so far apart

[00:37:19] And it really opened something

[00:37:21] Up in me and so I'll I'll just come out and say in november

[00:37:24] I'm actually I'm working on my own collection of horror stories

[00:37:28] And I'm gonna do a whole book and that's going to be separate from hello darkness, although I have

[00:37:33] Two more stories coming out with hello darkness

[00:37:36] So it's something that I tried as an experiment and it really just spoke to me and now I'm going deep into that world

[00:37:44] Is there any

[00:37:45] Reluctance fear I'm sure there is associated with the the transition of

[00:37:51] Okay, Sarah does the funny stuff now. She's horror stuff. Are you kind of

[00:37:56] Apprehensive about the audience jumping on board with you? Sorry, I don't need to make it worse

[00:38:00] No, no, I actually feel kind of optimistic about it because I very much had that feeling when I went from Sarah Scribbles to fang

[00:38:07] Because fangs is very dark and a lot of the jokes are pretty edgy

[00:38:11] And I was like, I don't know if people are going to receive this

[00:38:16] The same way but fangs is actually my best seller which surprises a lot of people

[00:38:20] but

[00:38:21] I learned through that that when I work in different writing modes that

[00:38:25] I can trust my audience and I can trust the intelligence of my audience and the things that

[00:38:30] They're willing to look at and respond to and I'm so so grateful for that

[00:38:35] And so I actually feel optimistic about horror because I feel like

[00:38:39] My readership with fangs and cryptic club and even some of the sarah scribbles comics. They know that I've

[00:38:45] been that I'm I've been

[00:38:48] Like cozying up to horror for a while

[00:38:51] So I think the leap isn't too crazy. So I I personally feel kind of optimistic

[00:38:57] So you're getting your feet wet and your your um, hello darkness stories called siren

[00:39:03] We won't give a whole bunch of things away about it. But what

[00:39:07] What when you're getting your feet wet was like, ah, I want to play with a siren. Why did that make sense?

[00:39:12] I think I was thinking about

[00:39:14] fairy tales. So I'm actually german

[00:39:16] I was raised with some very dark versions of fairy tales and they're very spooky and creepy

[00:39:24] And I wanted to see if I could

[00:39:26] subvert

[00:39:27] Maybe a trope in one of them

[00:39:30] And I also thought a lot about what scares me and this idea of being watched and stalked

[00:39:37] by something came up. So it was sort of those two things in combination and

[00:39:43] Um, yeah, and I'm really happy with how it came together

[00:39:47] Did you start reading a lot of horror comics to kind of do you normally read a lot of horror comics?

[00:39:53] Yeah, I'm a big horror person. I watched tons of horror movies

[00:39:57] And I feel like I sort of already had the education

[00:40:01] Okay, sure just from naturally liking horror. So um, yeah, and obviously

[00:40:06] I always look at Junji Ito

[00:40:10] Okay, any any horror stuff, you know, he he is the king. So yeah was definitely going back through my catalogs

[00:40:18] But you were talking about it and when I

[00:40:21] First interviewed Kyle Starks and a light bulb moment went off

[00:40:25] I just had an absolute epiphany when he talked about that that parallel between

[00:40:30] writing comedy and writing horror

[00:40:32] And I'm curious if that is just feels like just a comics specific

[00:40:38] Uh, kind of thing in terms of a medium because the the beats that you were talking about and how you lay things out

[00:40:44] In comics are very very different than you would in like a movie

[00:40:47] Yeah, so so how are you how are you finding that playing with that?

[00:40:51] Yeah, I think that would make a lot of sense because comics you're so right about a beat and timing

[00:40:57] Yeah, because you really can create timing through

[00:41:01] Comics and that's something something I utilize a lot is the way things flow

[00:41:08] Through time and horror in comics. I think it's also really dependent

[00:41:12] On the flow like if you're going to have something jump out or scare you you're going to flip the page

[00:41:17] You have to have that kind of musical quality to it and it's very hard to

[00:41:23] describe

[00:41:24] But when you're writing it there's definitely a kind of musicality and a timing flow to it that I

[00:41:30] I'm sure exists for like movie directors, but

[00:41:34] Probably in a different way. Okay

[00:41:37] All right

[00:41:38] Well before you wrap up, I know you had a print giveaway that was a part of promoting this book

[00:41:42] I think sadly that's just over as of today

[00:41:47] Yes, but but you've been doing a lot more of jacquely prints on your website recently

[00:41:52] So tell me about that so we can we can sell some merch and stuff

[00:41:55] Yeah, so where the the big things that I'm doing is the I'm selling the book and the jacquely prints and those are all signed

[00:42:03] and

[00:42:04] We do a run every couple months. The next one is going to be october

[00:42:09] So it's going to be a curation of four colored and signed

[00:42:12] Halloween comics and then the book comes out october 1st

[00:42:16] So basically the next

[00:42:18] Month and a half. I'm just spending building up to that

[00:42:21] So if you want to support me as a creator grab the book and then keep your eye out for the next print run

[00:42:27] Okay, are those four prints going to be do people have any advantage signing up for your newsletter?

[00:42:33] I'm trying to get people to sign up for your newsletter here

[00:42:34] Oh, yeah, I appreciate that. Yes. Um, you get early access to the prints

[00:42:40] If you are in the newsletter and they do sell out

[00:42:44] So, um the early access is definitely a perk

[00:42:48] Okay, well, we'll we'll make sure to put a link in the show notes so people can sign up for your newsletter

[00:42:52] Adult has a gift is available for pre-order wherever you buy your books now. It's coming out getting of october

[00:42:58] It's beginning of october, right? Yeah, october 1st. Okay, and your work always puts a smile on my face

[00:43:05] Sarah

[00:43:05] We all need more laughter in our lives and there's no better gift than being able to laugh at ourselves

[00:43:09] Um, which is why I can't bear to look at my attempts of tick-tock videos

[00:43:13] I get plenty of pats on the back

[00:43:14] But those are also probably from other gen Xers like me who are who are struggling with even trying to relate to

[00:43:20] Millennials let alone gen z years

[00:43:23] So this book is excellent as always and the essays are an absolute standout to me

[00:43:27] You know such invaluable stuff and can I just say how brave you are for always putting yourself out there into the world

[00:43:33] The way you do

[00:43:34] I know that kind of thing can be truly inspirational to someone struggling with whatever they're dealing with and everyone wants to feel seen

[00:43:41] So thank you and thanks for coming on the show again and putting it with me and all my questions. I appreciate it

[00:43:46] Of course. Thank you so much. Yeah

[00:43:48] Well, please go those pre-orders and folks those additional numbers go a long way to signaling to the publisher that the man

[00:43:54] Will be high which of course benefits

[00:43:56] Sarah and and all the other creators who who are kind of reliant on on those sales numbers

[00:44:02] So this is Byron O'Neill and on behalf of all of us at comic book yeti. Thanks for tuning in and we will next time take everybody

[00:44:09] This is Byron O'Neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book yeti

[00:44:15] We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast

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