Scott Snyder & Dan Panosian talk Canary

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You have just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:00:07] So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:11] Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again!

[00:00:15] I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad.

[00:00:22] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing.

[00:00:29] Another friend chimes in, are you going to make maps?

[00:00:32] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess? Question mark?

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[00:01:14] I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Ark and Forge for partnering with our show.

[00:01:19] I think I'm going to make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even.

[00:01:23] Hello and welcome to Comic Book Yetis, Cryptid Creator Corner.

[00:01:28] I am one of your hosts Jimmy Gasparro and I have a fantastic episode that we are going to get into today.

[00:01:34] I have artist Dan Panosian and writer Scott Snyder.

[00:01:40] Super excited to have both of these fine gentlemen and comic creators on the podcast today.

[00:01:46] We're going to talk about Dark Horse's Canary.

[00:01:49] It is a Western horror.

[00:01:51] I absolutely loved it.

[00:01:53] The trade is coming out, I think June 26th.

[00:01:56] And they're both here so we can kind of dig into Canary, how the two of them work together.

[00:02:01] And you know, whatever else they have coming out and any other fun comic topics we find along the way.

[00:02:08] So Dan, Scott, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

[00:02:12] Thank you. Thanks for having us.

[00:02:14] Thanks so much for having us.

[00:02:16] Pleasure.

[00:02:17] Yeah, I was very excited to talk to both of you.

[00:02:20] You know, it goes without saying, I only I think I only have this podcast to just talk to folks who make comics that I like.

[00:02:27] So that's like the I think the only my the only like ground floor of this podcast was just to talk to people who make comics I like.

[00:02:35] And so I'm very excited to have the two of you on here and in particular to talk about Canary.

[00:02:41] I'm a huge fan of Westerns and to have like a Western horror, which I just don't think we see too much even in, you know, in comics.

[00:02:50] There's probably some films out there that do it.

[00:02:53] But other than like some issues of Jonah Hex and I'm sure there's a few others I'm forgetting, but this was like a true kind of Western horror, like genre mixing, you know, maybe some some like eldritch type of arcane stuff as well.

[00:03:10] And I really love the mashup like, yeah, give me more of it.

[00:03:14] I'm kind of Scott, I'll start with you in terms of was this was there some particular impetus that you're like, oh, I want to I want to tackle this now because this was initially a comics ology original.

[00:03:26] And this was kind of like your second wave of books there.

[00:03:30] Yeah, well, it was thanks for asking.

[00:03:34] I mean, it was actually it was like part of the first sort of slate of books that we were doing with them.

[00:03:44] So it came out.

[00:03:46] I think it was like maybe the fifth in the line, but it was it was part of that kind of initial wave that we that we pitched to them when we first went over.

[00:03:57] I think, yeah, I mean, I love Western as a genre.

[00:04:00] I mean, I've I've gotten to sort of play with it before, but I wanted to do one that felt like it was really sort of taking the genre somewhere I hadn't I hadn't really tried and Dan, you know, I was a fan of his work forever.

[00:04:15] And we had, you know, known each other like in passing at cons and had become friendly.

[00:04:20] And I just with these books, with comics ology and Dark Horse, the idea wasn't to have an idea, you know, have a have a pitch and sort of write it up and go to different artists.

[00:04:31] The idea was that to have sort of a really nascent idea, like I think I want to do something that that is about like this premise, you know, that keeps haunting me or something.

[00:04:43] And then bring that to a co-creator and have them build it with you in a way or talk it through and build something that felt really organic to the both of us.

[00:04:54] So the fun of this book, like the other ones there, too, but in particular, this one with Dan was sort of listening to his love of Westerns and of horror and and, you know, building the whole story from the ground up together and going back and forth and getting to change things and adjust and trying to make it more authentic.

[00:05:13] And make it something that we both really loved. So it was it was a real thrill.

[00:05:18] I mean, I'd love to work with Dan again anytime.

[00:05:21] So it was a blast. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

[00:05:25] It was probably the you know, the most collaborative and easiest time I've ever had working with a writer.

[00:05:32] And so it was just a fun, fun project.

[00:05:36] We had a great time.

[00:05:38] Dan, I wanted to ask you in terms of the artwork in it.

[00:05:43] Was there anything in particular that you really like were excited about kind of getting to to draw and showcase either in the Old West or the horror elements?

[00:05:54] Well, I mean, yes, certainly melding those two genres together and doing it in a way that was fresh.

[00:06:00] You know, instantly when you're going to do a Western comic book, you're going to be compared to like, like the Mobius blueberry stuff.

[00:06:08] And I know that's that's kind of a go to.

[00:06:11] But at the same time, you don't want to copy copy that necessarily.

[00:06:16] And certainly, you know, this is this is a horse.

[00:06:19] It's more of a horror story. It just happens to take place in the West.

[00:06:24] So we started it out with like bright colors and and, oh, this is you know, this is going to be in this family or this genre.

[00:06:34] And then and then progressively gets darker and darker.

[00:06:38] And it was interesting the way Scott fashioned the story because a lot of the flashbacks that Scott created,

[00:06:49] we landed up putting them in or he orchestrated and kind of in a way edited these flashbacks in different parts.

[00:06:57] So it's kind of interesting to see even from a standpoint of drawing it to see how the book would turn out eventually.

[00:07:05] Got another funny thing I never mentioned to you, but I got a real kick out of this is because it was always a work in progress.

[00:07:11] And Scott is always we have a lot of time in between things.

[00:07:15] Sometimes the names would change, like the character names.

[00:07:18] And I got it. I just it was just interesting.

[00:07:21] I'm like, oh, my God. OK, so that's you know, it was it was fun in that way.

[00:07:25] And I always like the changes they were there.

[00:07:29] I love how the book turned out.

[00:07:31] It's a lot of art or a horror story.

[00:07:34] And I think with any story, you need that emotional heart factor.

[00:07:39] Like you have to really have a soft spot for the people, the characters rather.

[00:07:44] Yeah, if you don't care about the characters, you don't sometimes aren't going to necessarily they have to be likable.

[00:07:50] But there has to be something you care about, otherwise you're not going to really care what what happens to them.

[00:07:55] And I really like, you know, I really did like the character of William Holt.

[00:08:01] I guess it's as real.

[00:08:03] Yeah, I'm whole. Dan, you mentioned the flashbacks.

[00:08:06] That's one of the things that I thought came across so well in terms of the artwork, because when we first meet Holt in the first issue, he's been through some stuff and then you don't know exactly what it is.

[00:08:19] And it's kind of revealed over a series of flashbacks.

[00:08:23] But when we see Holt in a flashback and it's clear who it is, but there is such a lightness to how he's drawn in those flashbacks.

[00:08:34] I mean, he's happy and there's such a departure while he is for a little while, but it really, it really like cements that he's gone through some stuff when you think back to like those opening pages of that book.

[00:08:51] Those flashbacks work so well.

[00:08:54] Yeah, because he's so hardened later.

[00:08:56] Like, you know, and Scott handles him in that kind of stoic sort of, you know, way that you want to see your hero, but he definitely now thanks to all the cool flashbacks, you know exactly why he's so stoic and grim.

[00:09:12] Yeah, one of the things I really liked about Canary is, you know, I grew up, my grandfather loved Westerns and like so growing up.

[00:09:20] There was always a Western on, you know, from, you know, John Wayne, John Ford Westerns to, you know, not as high quality productions that they were cranking out and like the 50s and 60s and my he watched them all.

[00:09:36] And you know what are the tropes of that genre you see like the lone the lone guy someone who is still extending up.

[00:09:45] Where the town or himself or whatever it might be even if he's up against odds are overwhelming odds I mean.

[00:09:53] What can I re where you see that he's facing something is just.

[00:09:58] There's there's nothing that that can kind of overcome what he's dealing with and being faced with something so so.

[00:10:06] Dark at times you know it's just not something you really see and I really liked how the story kind of played out with.

[00:10:15] Hold what he dealt with in the beginning and then you know what he ends up dealing with like later on in the town and I don't know I felt kind of like a real.

[00:10:24] Not just it was like let's mash up Western and hard but I felt kind of like a real parallel to kind of some of the big issues were going through today.

[00:10:34] I was very just very interesting how I kind of saw like what hope was dealing with with the town itself with you know the the mine of canary and I don't know I like a bigger sense of some things we face today I just was trying to draw some parallels there.

[00:10:50] Will stop Scott when he when we first talked about it that was paramount wasn't it Scott I mean yeah he wanted to make it that was your intention correct.

[00:10:59] Yeah very much you know this off the things I was charging it but I'm like too old to sit like that for too long yeah.

[00:11:11] Yeah I mean the whole goal I mean like.

[00:11:15] Doing a Western for me and working with Dan like when we first started talking about it the fun was thinking of a Western as a way of kind of.

[00:11:25] You know the best westerns are always about who we are as a nation that Mike in our imagination at that moment and there some that are really critical like.

[00:11:35] I love josey wells are you know and then there are the searchers and others that are really heroic but that genre itself is so.

[00:11:44] Purely indigenous to hear and it's so much about how we think of ourselves that.

[00:11:51] When we started talking about it was like i was gonna be a western but it's gonna have where elements the more we went into it though it was like look we really wanted to be something that's about.

[00:12:01] This this mine and it's a kind of a classic ghost story about you know mine that might still have these.

[00:12:10] Victims living in it but it wasn't really about that so much as it was this town even in its name canary as this kind of warning.

[00:12:18] About what what we might become and whether this mine sort of has has.

[00:12:27] Sure is a premonition of the things that we really are sort of afraid of about ourselves but writ large and so it was a really interesting project kind of blending.

[00:12:40] Supernatural and making it something that felt almost like cosmic horror and at the same time.

[00:12:46] Trying to also keep it relevant and i think you know dan made a really good point one point there is actually and i'm sorry i like i completely dropped the ball on this for the trade but.

[00:12:57] You know i was very concerned about having the book have things in it or have a level of violence and a level of.

[00:13:07] Sort of disturbing sort of imagery that felt like it was not typically found in westerns but that would.

[00:13:17] Would would sort of echo what we see today and all kinds of ways and so in the initial draft the boy apple.

[00:13:26] Who shoots kills the teacher in the inciting incident that kind of starts the whole story and if you haven't read it yet but you're watching this interview.

[00:13:36] Essentially canary is about a series of really random murders that are happening around this one area where people children old people are going to be certain and just.

[00:13:49] Killing bunches of people for no reason whatsoever and it's about us marshal who's called in to investigate.

[00:13:57] And is about to retire and has had this really terrible experience in this area when he was younger.

[00:14:03] With an outlaw who claimed to be something more than human because of the waters in this in this region.

[00:14:11] I'm and is paired with a geologist who believes that there might be something in the in the underwater i'm sorry in the underground sort of.

[00:14:22] I will for in this area that's causing people to go crazy and what they find is something like much darker and more.

[00:14:29] I'm more disturbing on a supernatural level about this mine that it's this nexus of evil but a place that is you know.

[00:14:40] Sort of also connects exist almost out of time and is this horror that's much bigger than like just sort of a haunted.

[00:14:49] You know how to cover anyway but i'm going to like the shining in this even there's all sorts of little call backs and.

[00:14:57] Little easter eggs scott what's in there along the way and what is this if you read it twice you like okay.

[00:15:04] This ties in here and starts in there is probably a little.

[00:15:08] Maybe difficult at times for the comics ology readers to follow as much because the spacing of the books.

[00:15:16] What's nice about this trade paperback coming out is you get to read it like you would say a movie.

[00:15:24] Yeah but there is even at the beginning like the the boy that i'm.

[00:15:29] I'm sure in the inciting incident apple we changed it initially he he shoots the teacher and.

[00:15:40] I just it the last minute you know i really felt.

[00:15:43] And com is ology felt but i felt as well that it might be like one one step too far only because there was no things in the news constantly about still are suddenly.

[00:15:55] And you know dan was braver than me about wanting to put it in the trade and i think.

[00:16:00] Ultimately the balance there the thing that maybe speaks to the priorities of the book was.

[00:16:07] I trying to really have it contain.

[00:16:11] Level of kind of horror and violence and worry about who were becoming that felt unsettling and disturbing.

[00:16:22] I'm not pushing it over the edge into something that also might be.

[00:16:27] Salacious that stuff i'm not sure you know that's hard balance strike i think.

[00:16:32] I love the book for what it's trying to do so glad i mean.

[00:16:38] It's gotten some of the best responses of anything that i've worked on in the crater on space so it's so nice to see.

[00:16:46] I have people responding to it that way.

[00:16:49] Yeah i really like tell there were parts of it that i found.

[00:16:53] You know it's somewhat challenging not in terms of like the violence that's depicted or.

[00:16:58] But more so in terms of what the book was trying to say or get across like i just i love that.

[00:17:06] What's father was a preacher those types of elements that are woven and i love how the page breaks or you know the one through six form and kind of how that.

[00:17:17] Hi is in to kind of like the underlying if mythology is the right word of the books all those little things that wanted me to like,

[00:17:25] you know dig in a little bit more and like ask some more questions i really love that's the kind of stuff like i love when i can find something like that in the comic.

[00:17:33] So there are all these little nuggets of things that i could take a little a little deeper with which i really enjoyed about the story.

[00:17:40] Yeah i mean i i i i loved it i thought it was great.

[00:17:47] Dan one of the things i want to ask you because not you know.

[00:17:51] We talk about western and hard but there are a lot of moments in this book that are just tense and i think like tension is kind of difficult to do well in a comic book because it can be static you know it might be better achieved in like a film.

[00:18:06] But you're able to do it especially in a lot of close ups there's one i don't know if it's issue five or six.

[00:18:14] I'm.

[00:18:16] But in the i guess there's later issues between i think it's mable and whole and there's just like close ups on their face i think it's right before the deciding like what to do after.

[00:18:27] Something happens in the town and like that the tension is held so well in the that that paneling and it really i mean the end of the book just kind of ratchets it up but i really thought that you do that so well.

[00:18:42] And i mean i is that something you're conscious of in terms of like how do i make this as you know how do i focus in on the right thing to make it as tense as possible to really hold the readers attention there.

[00:18:56] What i think it's just a matter of like building and where you place that camera and when you go in close and when you when you're far enough away like how close do you.

[00:19:08] What the reader to be necessarily involved you know sometimes you feel you know safer further away sometimes you know even if it's a top down shot like.

[00:19:18] Maybe you're safe up there and some matter of.

[00:19:21] I like using the word safe but you know especially in a horror.

[00:19:26] Don't work or comic you you want to play with the safety issues.

[00:19:30] So you know it's typical comic book trope is to do a close up the times but i think sometimes that gets maybe overuse or use as a cheat and it should be done sparingly.

[00:19:43] I'm.

[00:19:44] What's up scott give me a lot of freedom which which i really appreciate it but.

[00:19:51] You know his story was very you know he knew exactly what you wanted.

[00:19:56] You know how to have certain scenes and scenarios going as far as to say now let's maybe.

[00:20:02] Change angles on the panels just to even further influence the fact that things are becoming very unsettling and that's that's a.

[00:20:11] That's an interesting trick even in film is when when you have everything constantly centered and then you start deviating away from that in a slow slow pattern from what the storyboard sense.

[00:20:27] The person watching doesn't even necessarily know what's happening but subconsciously you know things are are going skew so.

[00:20:35] It was nice it's not scott seems to know so much experience you know.

[00:20:41] How was countless books and titles and you know he knows how to tell a story obviously so you know not every writer is going to say hey i want.

[00:20:50] You know let's play with these elements and you know you exactly what you want.

[00:20:56] Alright let's take a quick break.

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[00:21:52] let's get back to the show Scott is that in terms of working with different artists and you've worked with some artists.

[00:22:03] You know multiple times throughout different books and you know someone like Dan who you said you've come across, but this was your first time working on something like this.

[00:22:11] How do you figure out like you just script everything the same way do you say Dan how do you know do you have a conversation when you're starting out like Dan like how do you like what do you want me to do do you want.

[00:22:22] Full scripts do you want more room to play around with like how do you get into that you know conversation.

[00:22:29] I mean I figure with six issues it's probably something that has to happen fast but there's still a bit of a learning curve right.

[00:22:36] Oh yeah i mean that was the whole fun you know it was getting to.

[00:22:40] Getting to sort of talk to each other at the beginning and see how we like to work and and figuring it out together you know I was at DC for so long.

[00:22:53] For me i'm just consistently for for ten years plus with never really leaving for any period of time.

[00:23:00] So being on batman and then doing events like metal and death metal and justice league and all that they're so constrained by.

[00:23:12] You know by the expectations and the demands of those characters and i love that world i mean i adore it.

[00:23:19] What leaving there in twenty twenty and then having the pandemic and all this stuff.

[00:23:26] The exciting thing in the challenge was being able to say no matter what.

[00:23:31] Just gonna make books with these people who i find really inspiring some of whom i've worked with before but not in this capacity.

[00:23:39] I'm from my never worked with but wanted to end figure out books there organically ours together and sometimes that man.

[00:23:46] Experimenting a little less we went and sometimes you know some creators really like having extremely firm.

[00:23:53] I'm extremely firm plan page to page in all kinds of ways but for me the joy was being able to.

[00:24:01] Can you be a little loose and create together and no i always knew the ending of the book always knew you know the basic the basic bones of it.

[00:24:11] But being able to feel it out together and be like which parts are you know.

[00:24:16] Is dan responding the most to which parts working together feel like they have the most energy expanding those sort of using relying on other things that feel like we didn't see before but then.

[00:24:27] Like dan would draw something and then it would give me an idea even the.

[00:24:32] We do the mask i just love so much like the upside down coffin and more of the stuff about.

[00:24:38] I'm hopes father and this kind of the strange sort of past that he had this kind of religious background came out as the book was going and.

[00:24:47] So things like that just sort of were wonderful discoveries along the way it was part of the process.

[00:24:53] But it was always starts with and i recommend this to like any aspiring writer listening to this.

[00:24:59] I took me a while to understand this couple years at least like getting into the industry but i'm talking to your co creator or the artist you're working with.

[00:25:09] Trying to find a sweet spot where you both are where you as a writer giving as much as you can the artist to be able to allow them to shine.

[00:25:21] It'll work a lot better for you rather than just writing in a very strict fashion that only works for you i have friends very big writers who still do that and it works you know they can only really right one way.

[00:25:35] But for me part of the fun is trying to be adaptable and and making something that feels kind of organically.

[00:25:43] Just alive and made together as you go in some way.

[00:25:48] When you're working with how different is it when you're working with say jock or great capo is it is there a variation in how you deliver the the scripts are yeah yeah there there is like.

[00:26:02] Those two are more like Greg Greg in particular likes like the absolute least amount possible so sometimes Greg like alright.

[00:26:14] The scripts more in terms of what i need so i can sort of feel it out and live in it and then undo that and then write something that's like.

[00:26:23] A third of that you know and and it took me a long time to be able to.

[00:26:29] To operate that way i'm comfortably but my our compromise was like i would get on the phone and kind of walk him through the way i saw the story.

[00:26:37] What is your and then sort of be like you do whatever you want and hear the basic beats.

[00:26:43] And i'm he would i in our relationship really evolved that way where is i'm jock is similar to the way we work together where it was sort of a hybrid you know where is a lot of.

[00:26:56] I'm the dialogue isn't in there but it's described as to what it will be and i always knew exactly what the.

[00:27:04] That was interesting for me is always new.

[00:27:08] Basically what everyone saying every panel because i would describe the beats and so you have to hit this piece and you know it occasionally there's an extra panel.

[00:27:17] I'm the hit a certain beat but it be very.

[00:27:21] I was just you know kind of excited to see how we actually be scripted scripted because you know sometimes there's there was scripting in.

[00:27:31] Sometimes it's more like he's this is angry about this or this it's this person's agenda here and they're manipulating that person what have you but it was i found that very interesting.

[00:27:42] Yes it's a lot of fun i mean it's the last few years have been honestly i think the most inspiring for me and my career getting to work with.

[00:27:52] Some people who i was really familiar with like graga and we have demons and then some people i'd never worked with.

[00:27:58] I'm extensively before like dan and we set to a lot and.

[00:28:04] Each book was its own experience that way you know it was it was just a real joy and i love this period you know i feel like.

[00:28:13] I got to grow so much learning from them as a writer that it was it has been like.

[00:28:22] Yeah probably also the happiest period you know it's been so creatively exciting just make stuff together and have have good partners also like very grateful to come to our and other places that have been supportive of me the last few years and my partners but.

[00:28:38] It's been great you know just a box all of you put a lot of love into all the books and the presentation that's that comic book convention.

[00:28:47] You know brought so much light and attention to all the series but with it would we you land up calling in scott was it scott scott sober.

[00:28:57] Oh yeah they did that.

[00:28:58] Yes scott scott over again yeah and in july which was funny but they were very supportive you know there.

[00:29:09] It's been it was great you know they just they were up for anything and i mean again my goal was to be able to.

[00:29:18] Just try things that i hadn't before so to be able to maybe work with some artists that i you know never gotten to collaborate with or try a genre i hadn't like.

[00:29:28] Romance historical romance like barnstormers or all ages you know like with jamal with dudley does and it's totally out of my wheelhouse like we were like let's write a book for our kids.

[00:29:41] And so is a real creative walk about you know and it was just a real joy i'm very grateful to have gotten to do it.

[00:29:49] I enjoyed harassing jamal that san diego that was fun for me.

[00:29:53] Jamal's great yeah let's get into a great writing good sense of humor you know.

[00:30:00] Everybody i mean that's the other thing is like.

[00:30:03] There's not i mean everybody here is somebody that i really like you know as as a person and want to spend time with so i think my biggest regret or the biggest issue over the last few years was just the.

[00:30:15] The.

[00:30:17] Which is writers room came along i didn't know that it would be that that show would get greenlit it's the first thing i've ever had like you know actually wind up on tv.

[00:30:29] I'm and it was you never know where that lands or how it how it was gonna happen and and.

[00:30:37] Is show i'm show running yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

[00:30:43] Yeah and so that the biggest issue i had was more i've had is more.

[00:30:49] Having one foot in animation while trying to really.

[00:30:56] You know give my everything to the to the books and i feel really proud and confident of the quality of the books that never.

[00:31:05] Never you know worry about that but the thing i regret is more like.

[00:31:11] I wish i had gotten to spend more time with each creator just socially and getting to know like i was very you know i wish i had more time to hang out with dan and get to know dan and and.

[00:31:22] Go to cons and talk more and all of that stuff too which we did get to do but i think that was the part that for me.

[00:31:31] Got a bit swallowed up over the last few years by by tv stuff which you know is is.

[00:31:38] Slow down either god.

[00:31:41] I don't see that no no no no i have no but i mean like.

[00:31:48] I'm gonna survive i'll make it i'm gonna make it like i think the.

[00:31:54] I've paired back a lot you know so i have a lot less a lot less on my plate the coming year but.

[00:32:04] I think i do i don't know i don't know i don't know but i love all the stuff you know too and like they just.

[00:32:12] You know what i mean like i love i love the books and i love the project so.

[00:32:17] No i'm not.

[00:32:19] I really i would put the books of the last couple years up against anything i've ever done you know with.

[00:32:24] We're lucky enough to get some accolades for them and stuff but just beyond all of that you know beyond the critical reception.

[00:32:33] I am so proud of them you know canary i would put up against anything i've ever done in my whole life you know and that's testament to dance work.

[00:32:41] Yeah usually but that's that was the experience with these books and carry being like to me a superlative example of that just something that i never would have gotten to make.

[00:32:54] Couldn't made this way without a partner like dan and making something that only the two of us can do is team and really surprising.

[00:33:02] Me and loving it so like like was you know.

[00:33:08] Is it's kind of all.

[00:33:09] No once in career sort of move like that to work with someone like scott said my work.

[00:33:16] I bought very rarely will buy comics into you know to buy his first works everything i didn't get human torch so sorry scott.

[00:33:27] Yeah that's you should say those funny cuz today was the like the birthday of the human torts.

[00:33:35] Anna that was my very first comic that i ever had published was a one shot for timely the revival of timely comics at marvel i still get like a penny and royalties now and then.

[00:33:47] It's like a and i was janine schaeffer and it was scott wagner who did atomic robo and he gave me a page here but i'd never written for comics before and so i was just like.

[00:33:59] My script for like an eight for twenty page things like fifty pages long like this and then scott had to be like this i do this exactly wonderful wonderful and like i have course i changed it but yes that was that was today that was today was.

[00:34:20] I wasn't aware of your work until like the vampire stuff american vampire so but i remember seeing that and reading it and going oh this is so edgy and.

[00:34:30] I'm just felt like this is kind of where comics are going and it was exciting very exciting stuff.

[00:34:38] Thanks man will same i mean again i'm really eager to work together again and i feel like.

[00:34:45] Yeah just.

[00:34:46] Have the give the second season of the writers room stuff this summer and then in the fall into the winter things really i get to get back to comics.

[00:35:00] In a bigger way you know it's exciting well keep me in mind no i there's i like.

[00:35:08] I there's no way to have had a better experience and again like i feel like you're also one of the not unsung heroes because people really love you.

[00:35:18] I honestly feel your you're not given the credit you deserve enough for.

[00:35:23] I'm the consistent quality the growth in your work all of it like just i think you're somebody who deserves a lot more attention.

[00:35:34] Can you get sometimes industry that way so my hope is that i don't know my hope is this award season people will will will notice the book for you not for me.

[00:35:46] I appreciate that let's see yeah i mean i agree not just the art that you know in terms of the.

[00:35:54] Penciling but the coloring in an area is unbelievable unbelievable and i mean you're coloring your own work.

[00:36:03] And i mean just from the yellows to the oranges to like them the deep blue like the color palette kind of changes with.

[00:36:11] The issues at times and yeah i just love the color work in it yeah.

[00:36:17] I was a big component there's less and less ink on the pages these days it's more more color is very.

[00:36:25] it's it's tough I spent more time coloring than then drawing half the time so.

[00:36:31] I'm sorry that was kind of a funny story i had my mind i wanted it to kind of look in the beginning at least like the wild west intro like that title sequence for the TV show.

[00:36:43] I'm not the world's most movie.

[00:36:47] So I had just this idea of how that kind of looked in but I never bothered to actually find out what it looked like until we were maybe a full issue in and I was like you know that's gotta be somewhere on.

[00:37:00] On YouTube someone probably uploaded that and they had and I looked at it and it is nothing like that at all like I had just imagined all sorts of like painterly you know skies and all this this kind of bob peak.

[00:37:15] Inspired like wild brush strokes and none of that is in that title sequence but sometimes that's why you're like memory of like an old west or a batman movie or even sometimes a comic book like.

[00:37:28] How you remember how it made you felt is better than what it might have really been.

[00:37:36] Yes it is funny how it is it is funny how that happens i'm scott you mentioned which is in the writers room.

[00:37:44] Her season one and then you said you're rolling right into season two is already been greenlit and.

[00:37:50] What is.

[00:37:52] The writing of it yeah so i'm excited so they greenlit us for a second season for.

[00:37:57] The production of it so technically they could do it and then say we don't want to put it on.

[00:38:02] TV but it's i mean i would i would be there be surprised if that happens at this stage unless we really bomb or whatever but yes we have a second season the summer.

[00:38:14] What will fingers crossed that that that works out but i wanted to say which is i love which is i mean it's one of my top.

[00:38:25] Comic books which is i think i want to say issue one came out like october of like twenty fourteen somewhere on there yeah twenty fourteen twenty fifteen my my oldest is eleven so she was two.

[00:38:38] When which is first came out and.

[00:38:44] That book fuck me up like a new time dad like i it felt like it was and i heard you talk about this a little bit in interviews but it really felt like it was channeling like all the anxieties i felt i had about being a dad in that book.

[00:39:03] There were two books that really did it well which is number one and walking dead one hundred.

[00:39:10] Like really had a profound impact on me and it was interesting reading canary now and trying to see like think like well it like ten years apart.

[00:39:21] The same guy that wrote you know which is wrote canary and i don't know i was maybe trying to connect some dots that i can't connect yet but i don't know.

[00:39:34] I have some parenting skills so yeah i'm less like i kind of rate the way i like all.

[00:39:43] It's weird because i feel like sometimes if you look at the books that i'm working on in a period they they're all sort of.

[00:39:49] They're all kind of working a theme in some way so.

[00:39:53] Death of the family on batman was the same time as which is and that's very much also about parenthood weirdly where joker saying to batman you don't really want a family stopping you from being the best.

[00:40:05] Work version of yourself that you could be and that was when we were pregnant with our second kid that that story was being.

[00:40:13] Sort of created so you try and go for the jugular your own jugular you know and be like what is the thing i'm most afraid of.

[00:40:21] Right now and with canary and this period.

[00:40:25] I wrote a couple books like this there's another one book of evil like a very different book but it's part of the same.

[00:40:33] Line it's a future where like ninety two percent of the population are born psychopaths and no one knows why and it takes place like twenty five years after this and it's with jock is mostly pros.

[00:40:47] Which was its own challenge but these those two books in a couple other things explore this theme of like.

[00:40:55] I think the worry that what makes us special.

[00:41:00] Is a country or some of the things that make us really special also make us really can make us really scary at times are the potential to become something really scary is there.

[00:41:11] And so that you know and the world relieving our children all that kind of stuff is.

[00:41:17] It's kind of in my in my mind you know writing these especially in twenty twenty when when a lot of this stuff was going on.

[00:41:24] I'm a lot of the between the pandemic and sort of political upheaval and everything was just like.

[00:41:32] So canary for me is really about that it's this.

[00:41:36] It's this group of people who really believe this kind of cabal of wealthy robber barons to go around the world finding these spots that they believe.

[00:41:49] There's this geological phenomenon where there's almost like an absence or a hole in the earth but that hole is connected to this kind of strange cosmic.

[00:41:59] I'm the strange cosmic chemistry.

[00:42:03] It will mutate and evolve and change the things that touch it and if water anything goes through it it will start to alter the biology of anything that.

[00:42:15] Come to contact with anything that this is holy they think that this is.

[00:42:20] This is almost like god fall into earth or to them sort of the myth of lucifer someone that falls from heaven and breaks into pieces and those pieces are void in those voids fall across the earth.

[00:42:32] Mouse like hungry mouse and those things land and if you can find one and embrace it sort of thing.

[00:42:38] Kiss that thing go into it in that way you'll emerge as something reborn and so america holds one of these and it kind of also appears it appears and becomes active and then.

[00:42:50] Disappears at times based on this strange kind of cosmic orbit.

[00:42:54] So it comes every kind of once every hundred and something years that it activates or it becomes kind of energized.

[00:43:02] I am so it's very much about.

[00:43:05] A thing that's a supernatural horrible thing it's like a scary hole in the ground that turns into monsters.

[00:43:12] What the book is about western to is like we're saying earlier is.

[00:43:16] You know this fear that.

[00:43:18] I'm these people that believe that believe that were special because you have the capacity to turn into something monsters.

[00:43:27] And so that that and that were supposed to sort of rise up and become this horrible version of ourselves.

[00:43:34] As opposed to some of the things that hold recognizes make us really special in a different way.

[00:43:40] You know and some of the things that we hold really dear and our principles that.

[00:43:43] Maybe make us the opposite of that and so it's supposed to be this battle of good and evil that really is about.

[00:43:49] Different strains of what makes us make us who we are you know in in primal ways i think is a.

[00:43:55] Is the country things that i think are incredibly admirable you know this weird democratic experiment.

[00:44:01] Where we're all in it together and we decide we're all equal and then this other thing which is.

[00:44:07] You know this.

[00:44:08] Total rampant.

[00:44:10] You know selfishness in the ability to step on that and that's what these people see is like see were special.

[00:44:16] We should be this concrete crazy thing and so anyway not to ramble but that's.

[00:44:22] I like where this book.

[00:44:24] Yeah that's that's that's what this book is thinking about in that way it was really fun to get to blend those things in ways that felt like.

[00:44:32] You know i hadn't tried or hadn't seen anywhere else yet.

[00:44:38] Yeah well i think it works i think it all works and a lot of that also is to dance credit because.

[00:44:46] Yeah i mean it's just it's a fantastic looking book and i mean i love dance artwork.

[00:44:52] You know i was glad to see when he had this is our book on on zoop i think last year was was fantastic so.

[00:45:02] I'm.

[00:45:04] Yeah i think it really works and i hope folks check it out so it's going to be out the whole trade june twenty six.

[00:45:12] Also when you're listening to this podcast make sure you let your local comic shop now so you can.

[00:45:19] Get a copy of the trade because it's i've been a big fan of westerns like i said before and love the horror genre and i love to see that the two of these mashed up in such a way.

[00:45:31] Start course does a great job of i can't wait to see what it actually looks like from a design standpoint i'm sure it's gonna be an amazing paperback.

[00:45:43] Yeah dark horse has just been doing they put up fantastic stuff i love so many of their books.

[00:45:50] Yeah i think it's going to be great so i just wanted to ask in terms of westerns i'm always curious you have a favorite western both of you.

[00:45:58] Oh man i mean i i could name a ton but butch cassidy and the sun dance kid is probably.

[00:46:04] I saw that with my dad on tv and i'm paul newman is like my favorite of all time on every level but.

[00:46:11] You know that and the searchers and the unforgiven and outlawed i mean and outlawed jose wells and they're modern ones to like i really loved a bone tomahawk and.

[00:46:22] I'm high water is sort of a modern western to yeah i like to have water yeah i mean yeah there those are my favorites are probably those that you know.

[00:46:34] I don't know if there's anyone that you wouldn't know off of the list of you know it's true that the bad new ugly and all those so yeah.

[00:46:43] How are you coming.

[00:46:45] What's a shame was like probably the first western i fell in love with.

[00:46:49] I'm with alan lad and then probably pale rider i really like to i mean not all those westerns were great.

[00:47:02] Unforgiven that was you know probably just.

[00:47:05] What's the flawless western so there's so many good ones.

[00:47:09] I'm just trying to get the genre that we should do more of these days i mean it's hard to do because it's also historically in a real way it gets more it's probably more uncomfortable and all kinds for all kinds of reasons yeah so many reasons that said like it has this power to as like.

[00:47:27] Being so american you know it's so it's amazing you know yeah yeah.

[00:47:33] It's crazy to think about like you know as you get older and everything and have a family and recognize song.

[00:47:41] Generational experiences when you go back and think about when this wild west period actually took place it's not too many generations ago like you know that.

[00:47:52] I'm the east coast is was fairly civilized and it wasn't too long ago when when the west really wasn't.

[00:47:59] And you can see that some of the buildings i live in california now i used to live back east but an old building out here is two hundred years old you know and.

[00:48:10] You know in new york that's nothing it's crazy like.

[00:48:15] A hundred year old building here is like a review of make a plaque on it it's crazy.

[00:48:21] And so just a lawlessness and and the relatively short time period that took place you know it's not too far past our current history and yet it seems almost like a mythology so that's what kind of.

[00:48:37] You know what makes i think the western genre so unique and special.

[00:48:42] It seems like all that was you know it'd be fourteen hundreds you know it was really about.

[00:48:50] No hundred years ago a little over a hundred years ago about long years your great grandfather could have been in the wild west you know it's crazy.

[00:48:59] Yeah.

[00:49:01] Yeah that no that's true it's not as it's not as long ago as as we think it is.

[00:49:07] But yeah I hope everyone goes and picks it up I absolutely loved it I was glad I got to read it i'll probably also pick up the trade just because I like to have those things in my hand, even though I got to read it digitally.

[00:49:19] Thanks.

[00:49:19] I mean before we before we go I was want to wrap everything up I mean I if there's anything else you want to highlight or that you have coming out I mean Scott and they have your newsletter and the your your class is still going on.

[00:49:35] Yeah and I think if you haven't if anyone hasn't read barnstormers you should.

[00:49:41] I may have a couple other series that are that are coming out right now as well and I Dan if there's anything that.

[00:49:47] You want to talk about.

[00:49:49] Although I was going to say your new one that's coming out Scott with Francis.

[00:49:55] Yeah with Francesco who he has like a familiar face and.

[00:50:02] Francesco and I really like to do plastic horror like he's a huge universal monster fan and so am I and going all the way back to like you know 1930s 1920s all the way to now horror.

[00:50:17] What's love it so what we try and do is like.

[00:50:22] Create something that feels like a classic horror story and then sort of make to do a kind of modern take on.

[00:50:29] On it so it has elements of both the white boats very much in that vein where it's kind of like the island of doctor moreau or.

[00:50:35] I'm something like that you know in hg wells or a jewels burn kind of story that but updated to be.

[00:50:43] To be about scary rich people on an island now so it's a lot of fun i really i really enjoy it but i mean i'd love to keep the focus for me on.

[00:50:54] I really hope that that anyone listening to this will go pick up canary again i'm like.

[00:51:01] You know i'm proud of all the stuff that i've worked on but canary is up there with the things that like.

[00:51:08] Like i really i would put up with the best stuff i've ever been a part of easily so i'm deeply deeply grateful to dan and to you know.

[00:51:18] I'm a cell gene dark horse but today and in particular for for building this thing together so i love it so i hope people go out there and think about it in june.

[00:51:29] Thanks god yeah blush over here.

[00:51:32] I'm not i'm gonna hit you out we're gonna i'm like whenever you're free and come the fall like whenever you're free i wanna i wanna do a lot more together i'd love to work together again.

[00:51:43] Like once and this time we get to like hang out more and party more that's what i mean like it wasn't even like that i didn't have time to really the books again like i'm.

[00:51:53] The work was never an issue about getting to really put everything into the books but it was.

[00:51:58] I in my mind i had more like i just i wish i'd had more time to genuinely just socialize with dan we get along i love i love hanging out with you so.

[00:52:07] That's that's that's my big regret about it was more like you know i'm not getting more of a chance to actually enjoy working together in a social way while we were doing it.

[00:52:18] Yes also a little bit overlapping with the pandemic quite a bit so maybe the second time around it'll be different story.

[00:52:26] That's true but it was a real highlight getting to come see you and.

[00:52:31] In your place and all that and.

[00:52:33] I was kind of interesting I was already during a convention that we had Frank teary over and.

[00:52:41] Much friends.

[00:52:44] Those.

[00:52:46] Yeah.

[00:52:48] Direction but a lot of drinking too much at that point with Frank.

[00:52:52] With.

[00:52:55] Your wonderful family and all of that it was it was a real pleasure so and I think I had my kid to.

[00:53:03] You played with your it was really fun yeah it was when I was with Emmett that's right in California and I was with my.

[00:53:10] Eleven year old because it was a thought we were taking a father son trip out there and doing a quick convention but.

[00:53:18] I promised them I take him out there and take him to like a.

[00:53:23] Baseball Dodger stadium and all that stuff so he's a huge baseball fan like beyond huge baseball fan.

[00:53:30] I think he was wearing some baseball stuff when he came over.

[00:53:33] When he came over.

[00:53:35] He's one of those kids that like.

[00:53:38] My two sons are like so different three sons I mean I have the third one is five but like as of yesterday actually but he the seventeen year old is like.

[00:53:49] Just super happy go lucky worries about nothing is like handsome handsome and popular and I totally don't relate to it at all like I was always like a ball of nerves.

[00:54:01] And then my eleven year old is just like that he's like.

[00:54:05] You know worries about everything and all of that and then also.

[00:54:10] Is the kind of kid that like loves one thing for a period of time and consumes that thing on every level and.

[00:54:17] Baseball used to be you know he was little star wars and pokemon and all that and now baseball has been it for like.

[00:54:24] Happily for the last three or four years where he's he stayed with it but he knows like I mean he knows everything like every stat and so I followed him down that rabbit hole and it's been like.

[00:54:35] A real joy we have like partial season tickets to the Yankees here and I just bothered Frank actually I was just trying to get Frank to go with me tomorrow but can't go now yeah so.

[00:54:46] Yeah anyway it's my yeah he's he's that was fun yeah he was a lot of fun coming out there and seeing you.

[00:54:55] I hope you to get to work together again only because I'll enjoy reading it and I hope you get more hanging out time.

[00:55:03] Yeah me too Jimmy thank you you guys do such a great job with these I really appreciate it it's a pleasure to get to be a part of it.

[00:55:10] No I thank you both for being on this side I think I was telling.

[00:55:14] Dan before before you you you joined us that yeah I just like doing this and Byron O'Neill is the other host and we don't.

[00:55:24] Hosted together it's we just like handle our own episodes but Byron wanted to start a podcast and I said yeah I'll I'll I'll talk to people and it's been two years I've done over a hundred of my own episodes and.

[00:55:39] Don't talk to a lot of fun creators so it's been it's been really great and especially with folks I'm a fan of and I've read a bunch of their stuff it's just you know.

[00:55:50] It's just a joy to kind of listen to the two of you talk about comics so.

[00:55:56] I can talk to Dan I can talk to Dan for at least like another week ago for.

[00:56:01] I was like wait this is over already I could easily do more but I know it's late also so we gotta do it again that's what happened to do it again.

[00:56:10] That's who you're welcome to come back anytime but yeah thank you Scott and Dan thank you very much listeners June twenty six canary the trade paperback.

[00:56:22] Western horror got a little bit of cosmic horror as well you're you're you're gonna love it absolutely love it make sure you get it.

[00:56:30] Also shout out to my brother Bobby he's the cryptid creator corners number one most dedicated fan I shout him out every episode because Bobby listens to all my episodes you feel.

[00:56:40] And he buys a lot of comics to we go to Baltimore Comic Con together every year and I always I started this bit like a couple episodes I don't know how many episodes ago and I keep doing it so.

[00:56:51] So shout out Bobby and thank you listeners please pick up canary and let me know if you like it because I want to talk about it now and thanks God damn I'll see you next time.

[00:57:03] Thank you guys so much thanks everybody it's great seeing you Scott thanks thanks Jimmy.

[00:57:08] Roll the can't you know we gotta catch up really soon all right all right.

[00:57:13] This is Byron O'Neill one of your hosts at the cryptid creator corner brought to you by comic book getting.

[00:57:18] We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast please rate review subscribe all that good stuff it lets us know how we're doing and more importantly how we can improve thanks for listening.

[00:57:32] If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptid creator corner maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics Kate listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.