Son M talks Something Crawled Out

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to

[00:00:05] you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:30] Here is the Jaguar, the Hummingbird and the unicorn to defend the children from an ancient evil

[00:00:34] of Haunster nightmares. I got an advanced look at this and it blew me away.

[00:00:39] Artist Stefano Simeone is top level talent having worked on Mega Man, Radiant Black and Star Wars

[00:00:45] among other things. And this is a perfect fit for a story that has something of a cross between

[00:00:49] so many of the team-oriented 80s cartoons I love. I interviewed David a couple years ago for his

[00:00:54] graphic novel, Finding Gossamer, and I've been looking forward to seeing what he does next.

[00:00:58] This has a look of something that will definitely get picked up on major publishers

[00:01:02] so get in on the ground floor. Head over to Kickstarter and search for Battle Mechs

[00:01:06] to sign up for notifications when this thing goes live. I've also dropped a link in the show notes

[00:01:11] to make it easy for you. It will be available in both English and Spanish which I absolutely love.

[00:01:16] This podcast has always been about promoting diversity, inclusion, and comics and it makes

[00:01:20] it so much more accessible to a wider community of new younger readers. Don't miss it.

[00:01:29] Hello and welcome to another episode of Comic Book Yeti's Crypto Creator Corner. I am one of

[00:01:34] your host, Jimmy Gosparo, and I have a writer on the podcast today that I'm really excited to talk

[00:01:41] to if you followed along Comic Book Yeti. You might have seen a written interview we did when

[00:01:48] their comic book Judas Complex came out with Dauntless Stories which I really enjoyed.

[00:01:56] I first noticed they're writing on Twitter with their small fictions threads about Death's Diner

[00:02:02] and the artist so I am very excited to welcome to the podcast today, Sun M. Sun. Thank you so

[00:02:10] much for being on the podcast. No thank you for having me Jimmy and congratulations on reaching

[00:02:17] almost 200 episodes. Thank you. Yeah, between Byron and I, Byron hosts, the other half of the

[00:02:24] podcast were yeah we're a little over I think we're just about two years and 200 episodes in

[00:02:30] February so it's been pretty exciting. It's a lot of fun. I really like and I really like talking

[00:02:36] to folks about comics so yeah but in particular you have a comic coming out with Vault Comics

[00:02:48] I think that I saw in previews it's hitting the stands April 10th and it is with artist Mad

[00:02:56] Kirst, Vittorio Estone, Jim Campbell Letter I believe and I think Tim Daniel did some design work but

[00:03:04] something crawled out is coming out in April through Vault and I saw some preview pages for it.

[00:03:10] The story looks fantastic that Mad Kirst's artwork is phenomenal and I can't wait to see more of it.

[00:03:20] So can you just tell listeners a little bit about what they can expect from something crawled out?

[00:03:26] Yeah, I am so excited to tell a story that's kind of set in the Midwest and features maybe more

[00:03:33] Midwestern horror. I'm very used to seeing Southern Gothic but not the sad, sad country state of

[00:03:39] Southern Illinois so something crawled out kind of follows a woman by the name of Yith also known as

[00:03:46] Eddie Miller in her small town where she realizes that her younger sister has gone missing and in

[00:03:53] these kind of small towns there's lots of fantasy about moving to the big city or taking university

[00:03:58] and some other location and so no one bats an eye but she knows something is very, very wrong. So she

[00:04:03] teams up with her best friend Reiner who happens to be known as the devil in town and the two of them

[00:04:08] go on kind of as hunt predator type revenge storyline to find out the truth about what happened

[00:04:15] to her sister along the way becoming kind of a bit monstrous themselves. It's very violent and it's

[00:04:21] kind of sexy which are my two favorite things. I remember you saying that when we did the written

[00:04:30] interview about Judas Complex and then if reading Judas Complex I was like oh yeah okay that makes

[00:04:36] there we go that tracks yeah like I said I saw the preview pages I think 11 of them and I got to

[00:04:43] go through and yeah I mean like I said as I said made cursor work is fantastic and it is pretty sexy

[00:04:50] and that I can't wait to see the violence part of it but I can't wait to see how this story

[00:04:57] plays out. I really like the opening. I think what first caught my eye is Krishian and I'm a big

[00:05:04] fan of theirs but did a variant cover which I'm assuming I didn't see this explicitly but I'm

[00:05:11] assuming it evokes like Cabinol's fallen angel. It knows what's up when they sent me that I was

[00:05:19] like getting sexy problematic. Yeah yeah it's a fantastic cover also I'll point out for

[00:05:34] Star Wars nerds that same painting influenced some of the shots of Anakin and Revenge of the Sith.

[00:05:40] Those are so good I've seen somebody fan edits perfect music and the lighting in that scene.

[00:05:46] Yeah Anakin is the best boy. Yeah I really don't I am really just the digress for a second but I

[00:05:51] don't think Revenge of the Sith gets the credit it deserves but um well that's for another podcast

[00:05:59] I guess. We'll talk about it later. So um yes so kind of something crawled out of you know

[00:06:07] and knowing some of the other work that that you've done kind of how did you and Mayad

[00:06:11] cursed kind of team up for this and how did you this this project end up at Vault? Yeah so one

[00:06:18] vault is amazing when I pitched this to Adrian I basically pitched with the context of being as

[00:06:24] violent as possible. An agent was like sure Vault can handle it uh I'm a I'm very into horror

[00:06:32] I'm very into horror I oftentimes find that usually when you have willing protagonists or

[00:06:38] you know presenting protagonists are not usually given the luxury of being just like horrifying

[00:06:44] terrors throughout a comic book series but Vault gave me full reign uh to kind of run wild

[00:06:50] and Mad of course as someone I've been a big fan of on social media I've actually watched

[00:06:55] Mads art since the Tumblr days we kind of stumbled each other quite a bit uh they've done some

[00:07:00] own their own personal comics but I think this is the first time they've done maybe more tradpub

[00:07:05] related comics and they crushed it they I don't know if you I don't know if it was in the previous but

[00:07:11] wait till you see how Mad curse draws cars it's crazy uh it's like next level stuff but Mad

[00:07:18] curse is amazing because they also really really love horror they are also really attracted to

[00:07:22] kind of like what we call is quiet violence where the horror is happening kind of suddenly maybe

[00:07:28] less upfront with the rest of the storyline and they also really love drawing hot characters so

[00:07:33] it was a match rate in heaven yeah I mean some of the um I mean some of the preview pages it's

[00:07:41] you know it's it's the beginning it's kind of like the setup but even you know how the

[00:07:47] the paneling is throughout the focus on some of the details in like Eddie's room uh I just felt like

[00:07:56] I don't know there was like an intimacy even through the the simplicity of showing like the

[00:08:01] the modern objects that I felt like wow there's so much there's so much on the page like because

[00:08:05] they're you feel like with a comic you only have so many pages so many panels to tell a story

[00:08:10] we talk a lot about this podcast the idea of like the economy of storytelling comes up and just

[00:08:15] there's there's so much in the way um certain scenes are framed that you realize there are so

[00:08:23] many details about Eddie and Eddie's life that you're you're picking up even in those early pages so

[00:08:29] I can't wait to see the second half of the comic when it comes out and uh and where

[00:08:37] Ned cursed us with some of the cars or the action sequence yeah it looks uh fantastic um so how many

[00:08:48] issues is it is it planned to be yeah so something called out is four issues all double size so

[00:08:54] it's a pretty it's a chunker uh which is really really exciting uh doing a double kind of a double

[00:09:01] issue has really allowed us to really dive into the I guess maybe more hardcore elements from the

[00:09:09] story in one issue as opposed to kind of spreading it out and that's again causes to go a little

[00:09:14] wild I think issue three has one of my favorite scenes and I won't say what it is but I get to dedicate

[00:09:19] like five pages to it and that's really to me um by uh yeah it's it's yeah four issues

[00:09:27] double spread or double spread double size full of mad cursed beautiful art and amazing colors all

[00:09:32] throughout with tackling something like this in terms of the the horror aspect of it then you

[00:09:39] know something you just said about like female or female presenting protagonists in horror are

[00:09:44] sometimes put into certain you know boxes or certain roles like whether or not it's movies

[00:09:49] or TV shows or comics was there were there was there anything thematically or kind of like

[00:09:56] turning those tropes on its head that you really wanted to dive into with this yeah I think the luxury

[00:10:02] of horror is that there's so many indie and mainstream works coming out with such intense

[00:10:07] variability that there's never going to be the first person to be like I'm the first one who's

[00:10:11] done this I'm 100% sure it's been done before but something I really really wanted to tackle with

[00:10:17] this story is that Eddie starts off as kind of a little bit like a regular protagonist in a horror

[00:10:24] movie before she quickly becomes the horror as she's transcending through the storyline a big goal

[00:10:31] of Eddie's arc is to become I guess the Nego final girl she is no longer surviving getting hunted

[00:10:37] she is actively hunting um and I still wanted you to cheer for her in the same way you would

[00:10:43] a final girl despite her maybe causing the people in her circle to be the final girls right

[00:10:49] this storyline so yeah a big thing was trying to keep Eddie's sympathetic and interesting but also

[00:10:55] allowing her to be kind of vicious and cruel uh towards those around her as she kind of descends

[00:11:00] onto this journey yeah I mean that seems like a kind of a difficult task that you I mean I understand

[00:11:06] the the drive to do it and it seems like a difficult task because um you don't want yeah I mean

[00:11:12] depending on where you want to go with it I would think you don't want the reader to completely

[00:11:17] turn on Eddie so it does seem like it's kind of a difficult needle to thread yeah I think it's one

[00:11:25] of those things where we'll always argue that you know other characters every more men presenting

[00:11:31] characters get the luxury of being so multifaceted you know I love terrible characters I mean look at how

[00:11:36] we love characters like Ryan Gosling and drive or the picky blinders and they're people

[00:11:43] so awful um I think of every quentin terrentino film uh a huge inspiration for a long time

[00:11:50] it was reservoir dogs and I'm like those aren't just a bunch of terrible things hanging out

[00:11:54] I think the first scene opens up with Steve Buscemi's character complaining that he doesn't believe

[00:11:59] in tipping and that like he's the he's the movie and so I really love that feeling of wickedness

[00:12:08] in somebody but still finding a reason to kind of keep cheering them on um and I also think

[00:12:13] Reiner does a great job in balancing Eddie out uh because here you have somebody driving

[00:12:18] forward with like a very desperate hunger and then you have her friend who's much more like let's

[00:12:23] think about this or maybe we should talk this out um and I think together they kind of

[00:12:29] I will say make one person but they do have a little bit of a co-dependent relationship

[00:12:34] yeah I thought you know reading the solicit for it or like the um

[00:12:38] uh the website I think it was comics fx that are that maybe xf that had the um the preview

[00:12:45] and describing Reiner's the devil and then and like there's a couple of opening pages and there's

[00:12:50] kind of like a flashback cold open and I was like oh but they seem so nice

[00:12:58] he's a good guy

[00:13:00] my favorite scene in uh 30 rock where they were like she's an angel and then it

[00:13:06] slips up Alex Baldwin's character and he's like so is Lucifer

[00:13:11] I think that carries itself throughout something rolled out

[00:13:15] yeah um yeah that is interesting though you know something you said about you know like male

[00:13:21] protagonists can be as vicious as they want sometimes and still um there's not that concern

[00:13:31] that oh well they won't be likable I feel like a lot of shows like lean into that sometimes

[00:13:35] through their detriment where I think people take away the like the wrong lesson like you said

[00:13:39] like in reservoir dogs or Tony soprano or you know Walter White like they're not nice they're

[00:13:45] not nice people you know but um yeah it is interesting it's very rare that I think of the female

[00:13:53] or female presenting protagonist gets gets the luxury of being written that way

[00:13:59] yeah it's actually why I'm so excited for the new GTA because one of my dreams was this having

[00:14:04] just a terrible woman

[00:14:07] it's the hard GTA so I don't know if she's terrible I don't know anything about

[00:14:10] so I don't come for me I know nothing okay but I just think it's really really exciting

[00:14:16] to have characters like that and hopefully no I hope Eddie's likable so maybe she's a dream

[00:14:21] I would be her friend yeah I mean so far I can't wait to see I'll let you know let's the issue comes

[00:14:27] out um you know with the in the and for listeners who don't know I just want to talk a little bit

[00:14:33] more about kind of your background not just in comics but I know you're very active in terms of

[00:14:39] the video game work that you've done uh you know whether or not it's you know uh uh writing

[00:14:45] or other aspects of video games and for anyone that doesn't know you're I mentioned the small

[00:14:50] fictions I think was the name of the thread that you did but Death Steiner you also denoted

[00:14:55] the screenplay for that which uh uh Ravena Tran I think turned into you know shot that short film um

[00:15:02] yeah just kind of like so many different like aspects of entertainment um and writing uh kind of

[00:15:13] how did you like first get your start uh I guess in in video games yeah I fell into it backwards uh

[00:15:22] I did it very poorly um at the time I was going I was working as a lab tech uh I had finished my

[00:15:34] biology degree I was looking to go to grad school which I did for about four years uh for

[00:15:40] development biology and evolution so I was very much on a different track and in 2018

[00:15:45] I was a big fan of like small indie games and I kind of called up my friend Emma and said hey

[00:15:50] dude you want to just make a game with me I don't know how but I'll wing it um that was not the best

[00:15:57] idea to be fully transparent it took me a long time to learn all the ropes uh but when you're

[00:16:04] starting out in games I think much like comics it's a bit of a learning curve you have to learn who

[00:16:10] to talk to or you heard a pitch to or how to build uh samples like in comics we have to prepare

[00:16:17] pitches that have oftentimes like we like especially on the writer end you have to pay for pages

[00:16:21] and you want to make sure that all is holistically put together and games operate the same way

[00:16:25] they want a prototype they want a team and so throughout 2018 I ended up assembling a small team online

[00:16:33] we ended up kickstarting in 2019 and we received uh a little bit of funding to kind of start our first

[00:16:38] game and then the rest is kind of history since then I have been working outside of my own studio

[00:16:44] as a narrative designer for other companies so I worked with surgeon and kind of like games

[00:16:48] and now Activision uh and I've just been you know just getting more and more invested into games

[00:16:54] and projects uh but I don't recommend doing that I recommend if you're gonna start your own studio

[00:17:00] learn the pipeline learn what it means to bring a game first so you're not learning on the spot

[00:17:06] a little rough well in terms of uh but in terms of the writing side of it uh had you

[00:17:14] you know wanted to get into writing before you know because in terms of grad school and studying

[00:17:21] evolutionary biology seems very different from I mean a creative writing career

[00:17:29] yeah I mean I'll be fully transparent to me I was originally writing sand fiction in college

[00:17:34] she know the real the real play start for writing yeah that's okay I think so um and I really

[00:17:44] wanted to write for games in the same way that I wanted to write for comics uh but I think and this

[00:17:48] is I think a very similar in comics as well in games there's a job called narrative designer

[00:17:52] and there's also a job called game writer or script writer and both those jobs are this small

[00:17:59] compared to the industry if you want to get into that job you have to find ways that maybe

[00:18:08] are less traditional um because it's a huge pool of people who want to be narrative

[00:18:13] designers or write games but there's always a very small amount of openings and the reason I

[00:18:17] ended up finding my own studio was because I wanted to be a narrative designer and I couldn't

[00:18:21] get any studio to get excited about somebody who uh one did not have a degree in literature uh

[00:18:29] I was a bibliography focused and two did had no game experience prior and so the best way to do it

[00:18:35] was to make my own studio so I could be the narrative designer in that studio and I think yeah

[00:18:41] the comics are much smaller than right usually often times the writer will say I had to end up like

[00:18:47] creating as much of the comic as I could my first round and then pitching it so that I would learn

[00:18:53] be giving credit to myself by the time I got to that stage so yeah and especially now

[00:19:00] I mean you see that a lot in comics with with crowdfunding and Kickstarter and it's um you know

[00:19:06] we've we've gotten to the point where we'll see successfully crowdfunded or kickstarted comics are

[00:19:12] then being picked up by publisher you know it's almost like that's kind of a pipeline rather than

[00:19:16] traditional uh pitching although certainly traditional pitching and submission still exists but

[00:19:23] I guess what i you know um to to be biology focused in terms of what you were doing in school and

[00:19:32] grad school like to then want to uh I mean I understand I want to get into gaming it's a small field

[00:19:39] it's going to be difficult I'm gonna I'm gonna start my own studio so that I can do the role

[00:19:45] that I want but what was kind of the bridge between you know the gaming is one part of my life

[00:19:51] and maybe I enjoy it as like a hobby or activity too I I want to do this uh you know

[00:19:58] to the point where I want to start my own studio um I feel like you asked asking two good questions

[00:20:06] because I've never had to psychoanalyze why I did things uh I'm here by accident um

[00:20:13] I mean that's fine if that's the answer oh no I will no I think um I think uh so big to

[00:20:21] think point for me was I've always been into writing um it just didn't feel like a financially

[00:20:25] feasible um um I come from a very small family you know my parents immigrated to here there's only

[00:20:31] the four of us uh in Chicago and you know my dad worked really hard uh and I knew that I wanted

[00:20:38] to definitely be able to be self-sustaining and to care of myself and Jimmy we're not gonna pretend

[00:20:43] that writing gives you money no we're not gonna pretend we're not even gonna show and so I've always

[00:20:50] kind of knew like it was unwise and I think that there's a lot of layers to that thought when I was

[00:20:57] younger that it was unwise for me to pursue it uh I you know it was my biology was my fallback

[00:21:03] that was the main thing that was going on um but I had grown up so married to lurcher and writing

[00:21:10] and especially different types of media writing so I and I loved anime I loved of course gaming

[00:21:16] I loved jrpgs like peculiarly so um I loved film and it was really sad that I by basically told myself

[00:21:24] I couldn't participate in these things because there would be no way to get in and there would

[00:21:29] be no way to be sustainable and I've listened to podcasts and stories and um tales and biographies

[00:21:36] about how people had to basically put everything and make that leap and sometimes it failed

[00:21:41] and more often times it failed and sometimes you know when you're a Stephen King

[00:21:45] yeah I think that's the short story really picked up after that um and I you know it's hard

[00:21:53] to envision that luxury so ironically enough even from starting my own studio to you know

[00:21:59] releasing the games that I've released on to doing comics I've actually tried to do it as

[00:22:03] risked versus possible not because I didn't believe in myself but because I knew that if I failed

[00:22:09] I had to still be sustainable um it's actually why we ever want to get crazy with me Jimmy

[00:22:14] I'm really weird about IP ownership and like what does it mean to own your work uh

[00:22:19] I love owning uh as much of my storylines as possible uh because you know maybe one day

[00:22:28] they'll them it fruit I too can own a branch like Lucas

[00:22:37] but you know I yeah I think genuinely the answer is the leap happened because I was in a place

[00:22:43] I could do it and it was a place that was low risk enough for me to feel secure but also with

[00:22:48] people that I loved and adored at the time and still do that kind of made me feel okay to take

[00:22:53] that chance and I think comics are much the same too I I had to convince uh not even had to

[00:22:59] convince I think Animal Heds is one of the longest running comics but the first comic I did was

[00:23:04] with Sam who was the artist of Animal Heds we did a vampire in Paris and it was our first it was

[00:23:09] cake started it was our first test into comics and we did it together um we didn't know what lettering

[00:23:15] was let me tell you but it was like it was such a great learning experience that kept the stakes low

[00:23:23] for both of us to try it and so um yeah I not a fun answer much like uh I'm gonna kind of be guy

[00:23:33] no I I mean I asked some of these questions when I have the when I have somebody who's done something

[00:23:38] like you've done on the podcast um when I get an opportunity to is because I I'm not I'm not brave

[00:23:45] I'm not a very brave person um you know in terms of the things that I you know the way my life

[00:23:52] could have gone I feel like I've always done like a practical kind of like safe road and when I see

[00:23:58] somebody who is kind of bet on themselves and taking that chance no matter what it is whether

[00:24:05] not it succeeds or fails I'm just kind of fascinated by what is that what is that spark what is

[00:24:11] that I have to do this I have to tell this story like no matter what it is and I'm just always

[00:24:16] kind of interested in how somebody goes from point A to to to point B you know I

[00:24:23] you need your life Jimmy you need more spite uh maybe we need some people you need the people

[00:24:30] a hater that's what uh one of the other and people in comic book yetty al david since they said

[00:24:42] I need I need I need more I need I mean need more spite they said it a little bit uh differently

[00:24:49] but that that was there was the main thrust of what they were saying uh you anger will really take

[00:24:55] you to places you never thought you could go yeah maybe I mean I I believe it I I think that's

[00:25:05] I think that's true all right let's take a quick break

[00:25:10] what in the sand hill is happening right now what is that you're like Bart

[00:25:17] yeah what you know oh you like band of Bart it's not my fault you muffle

[00:25:26] that makes sense they're dropping some great new series right now there's that one about a

[00:25:30] heavy metal guitarist in the 1970s with monsters working class wizards you know how we love monsters

[00:25:36] around here and my friend Dakota Brown he's working on a project uh grandma tillies

[00:25:42] hell-tech mech with lane void I saw the preview for that that is crazy Jimmy even contributed to

[00:25:48] their anthology from the static and had Matt Sumo on the podcast to talk about his project

[00:25:52] the bardic verses which makes a lot of sense that the project landed there where you are

[00:25:58] where can you find them you need to get out they were in previews or you can visit their website

[00:26:04] bandabars.com for all the latest can we turn the music off now oh yeah thank you no more

[00:26:11] surprises menstruals or anything like that or I'll rinse you out to the rim fair as a children's ride

[00:26:18] let's get back to the show well so let's turn you know to talk about some of those comics and

[00:26:23] animal heads you just mentioned do that with Sam Curtis and that was on top of us initially

[00:26:30] yeah and I think dark than dark chorus in october published um the trade and it was at the first

[00:26:37] time a trade paperback of animal heads had been in print yeah it was a really big deal for us at

[00:26:44] the time uh Sam and I have been working on animal heads since 2019 to 2020 I think uh like I think

[00:26:52] around their starting we were originally completely free to read we were on webtoons and top-ets

[00:26:56] but it was a way for us to like do a project together we collaborate a lot I'm a big big Sam

[00:27:01] Kurdistan uh I think she is amazing and I think she draws everything as beautiful as possible

[00:27:07] in every way and she gives everybody lashes which is very important to me uh so that's great um

[00:27:15] but yeah we got started together and I think it's over 300 pages or so uh so when dark

[00:27:21] chorus picked it up we were so excited because volume one is and I think this is something that

[00:27:25] doesn't get to exist in traditional like comic straight to print is that volume was huge it was a

[00:27:30] brick I could kill someone with it yeah um and said when it got published it was

[00:27:42] oh sorry the end of that cutoff can you hear me oh sorry I was just saying when it was published

[00:27:48] there was amazing yeah can you hear me just great yeah okay good uh yeah I just checked uh it looks

[00:27:54] according to like on dark versus website 296 pages so yeah that is a healthy tone

[00:28:01] yeah the only thing they don't tell you about my comics is you tend to do less double page

[00:28:06] spreads because it's not efficient for the medium yeah so when we looked at it we were like oh my god

[00:28:12] we did like no double page spread so that's a fun learning experience yeah I mean that vertical

[00:28:20] kind of scroll doesn't really lend itself to that yeah we thought we were bringing smart too

[00:28:24] because it's it's stylized in traditional western comics like we never switched to like the

[00:28:29] vertical space that webtoons oftentimes has and yet and yet we totally forgot about double page

[00:28:36] spreads for three years just goes the show I've read a couple of the entries on animal heads I haven't

[00:28:46] gotten to read all of it but the first one that I read though the the very opening of it it's

[00:28:52] such a great start to to a comic I really think it kind of like uh sets the stage very well

[00:29:01] uh plus I think I like when they're in I think guess they're all in the car after

[00:29:06] the initial inciting incident and they're just like we're fucked we're fucked right

[00:29:10] yeah you know I love my violent opening it wasn't really violent yeah yeah I think what's

[00:29:21] really beautiful about animal heads is you can see the transition because that scene happens at

[00:29:25] the very beginning kind of like cool open like you said but it also happens at the end because we

[00:29:30] repeat the scene now with all the information that you have leaving up to it and you get some

[00:29:34] sound gets so if that are a drawing gourd like from the first page to the last version of him you're

[00:29:41] like oh my god this is so much more severe than I remember but I think that nothing brings a group

[00:29:47] of friends together then a burger yeah I mean I say it all the time no I just I'm gonna start

[00:29:58] um and uh so in terms of your writing in in terms of getting into comics um I'm always curious

[00:30:10] were you a like you said a fan of like anime fan of film were you a fan of comics before like

[00:30:15] were you a big comics reader before getting into it or was just another avenue for you to write

[00:30:21] no I was a big comics are nice to collect the teen titans before the 52 I have almost I mean

[00:30:27] not our all the issues I'm gonna relax there are there's a million issues and I'm gonna yield that

[00:30:32] but I have a nice collection of the teen titans leading up to the new two and then I saw

[00:30:37] okay you know you're still new your thoughts on that um but I was a really big fan of

[00:30:41] the comics uh for a period of time a huge bat family fan uh a love reading Bruce Wayne he can

[00:30:47] be said in all dimensions that is okay I actually think he is a great example of kind of sexy or

[00:30:52] because he out here being people up he does look very good well he does it um so I used to group

[00:30:59] on a lot of those I read a lot of indie comics at the time so I grew up on a website called

[00:31:03] smack jeez which is like crazy to think about it's like early forum mid 2000s where people were

[00:31:12] uploading comics on their own so like before top-est or webtoon uh and I used to read comics quite

[00:31:19] religiously on it um which is great so it would be like one page a week update you would have like

[00:31:24] I had a calendar which what day of the week was what comic updating and I would go check that one

[00:31:29] page and I'd be like wow what a great experience um so I definitely was a big fan of comics uh I

[00:31:37] also really really love a lot of science fiction um I was very very lucky that the library that

[00:31:43] I grew up in used to let me borrow comic books quite frequently um and that I think helped really

[00:31:50] shaped kind of my aesthetic choices in it uh I will say that the older you get the more

[00:31:56] picky you get about reading it's happened to me for all mediums like with books and stuff I've just

[00:32:01] naturally saw myself getting like I don't have any time so I'm gonna pick something I'm gonna pick

[00:32:07] something I'm really excited about to read uh yeah I would definitely say I was a big fan of comic I

[00:32:12] did read a lot of manga though I'm not gonna pretend that I did not I was a big dessert and like

[00:32:18] dance and I I liked to joke I had a bit of an extrovert taste so I mean I knew what I was uh

[00:32:26] I always still have but I grew up a lot reading like manga gear to maybe adult men in a way that

[00:32:31] maybe I shouldn't have been reading but uh I think that really ended up shaping nowhere I am now

[00:32:37] oh um no that's awesome what was it that drew you to like the the teen Titans that made you want

[00:32:44] to collect it well first I did watch Teen Titans show as a kid so like it's really easy I think

[00:32:50] that I on a run we can that show did a big jump for a lot of people to be like you know why don't

[00:32:55] I pick up an issue now that I understand like what these characters are but I'm also really into

[00:33:00] found family and I think that a lot of the adults in k comics are kind of doing their own thing

[00:33:05] and they got their own plans and some of them have family scenes like eager for spider-man is great

[00:33:09] with having like these are dynamic groups and spider-man's hanging out with folks but you don't really

[00:33:14] get that with that man he's out here being alone or with the fam but Teen Titans always catered to

[00:33:20] here is a really weird collective group of individuals that are together and forced to operate

[00:33:25] I was also fan of the runaways I think for the exact same reason it was a group of people having

[00:33:29] to work together young justice later I'm trying to think of any others but oh I love X-Men

[00:33:38] I used to love X-Men but it's the same energy which is why these are all the individuals who might

[00:33:43] not operate together in normal society structures but have to operate together in these spaces and

[00:33:49] they led to cool stories oh yeah definitely um yeah I mean that makes a lot of sense all of those

[00:33:56] in terms of that that found family um in terms of science fiction so or have you written

[00:34:02] science fiction are we are we gonna see some more if that was like a genre that you really enjoyed

[00:34:11] reading is there some sun m science fiction we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get to see

[00:34:18] I have been so desperate to do space horror but let me tell you nobody wants it nobody likes that

[00:34:24] genre we do we're out oh you mean publishers I mean I've been there's fans around there not

[00:34:31] publishers they're like this is a little too niche I'm like please I'm a big I'm a big space horror

[00:34:39] fan I loved uh I mean this is a video game but I love dead space I love pushing sci-fi comics so

[00:34:47] D for the Heights has fantasy sci-fi in it that's the YA graphic novel coming up with Harper

[00:34:52] Collins later this year um there is a couple comics that I'm currently pitching that also are

[00:34:59] really into sci-fi or hard sci-fi I am a ridiculously big fan of supernatural sci-fi uh I think it's

[00:35:08] a space that hasn't really been touched as much as I would like it to be uh okay um but yeah the

[00:35:17] answer is I want there to be some sci-fi out there and there isn't pros there is in pros there's not

[00:35:25] there in comics okay well I'm hoping uh uh publishers are out there listening because I I I want

[00:35:33] to read it I want to see your take on you know something like dead space or uh one of my favorite

[00:35:39] I guess space bars uh event horizon yes ridiculous fan of that movie it's so good I'm just saying

[00:35:48] there should be more comics like that I I love Star Trek like the likes person but I don't want to

[00:35:53] do Star Trek I just do a violent yes well good luck now I want to read that so so hopefully um yeah

[00:36:05] what can you uh but you just mentioned a thief of the heights um which is the the Harper Collins

[00:36:11] graphic novel you have coming out um what yeah can you tell listeners just a little bit more about

[00:36:15] what they you know what that's about yeah more news will be coming really really soon uh very

[00:36:23] dangerously soon um but uh a quick summary is that the for the heights kind of follows uh for

[00:36:30] the teenagers alpha basim and Mustafa or for us it meant to say three I'm clearly mixing up my

[00:36:36] children um all those uh uh three teenagers who basically live in what looks to be a vertical city so

[00:36:43] they're on the lowest tier uh and they are dealing with a disease that kind of spreads from the

[00:36:48] lake that they work on that causes the amputation and so big theme of the story is how these three

[00:36:54] basically older children develop an engineering system to build prosthetics and that gets the

[00:37:00] interest of those at the upper level and they're being pulled to kind of rise these ranks

[00:37:06] and it's a big cost on like whether or not it's worth rising to success in that way and was it

[00:37:12] mean to support like the lower structures within a capitalist system uh I always think of

[00:37:17] Reagan's trickle-dannit economics you know how useful and great that was for all of us uh but a big

[00:37:23] theme is um does power and success actually come down to those who need it and I think that really

[00:37:29] follows closely to the story uh it's illustrated by Robin Yao who is an amazing artist uh

[00:37:37] literally stunning uh shown in King on Twitter how I know um and uh Carolina uh is the editor

[00:37:46] on it who has done an amazing job so I'm a big fan of it so it's it's also a wapper

[00:37:52] oh yeah oh good yeah I think I'm a little long with it is the issue here

[00:37:59] uh now I don't I don't think that's the case at all I love the I mean the subject matter the

[00:38:05] I mean the plot of it sounds fascinating I mean I love exploring that um in terms of uh

[00:38:12] you know any type of comic or movie or book that you know it really gets into

[00:38:20] these systems that we've developed and the realization that oh they're kind of bad um also

[00:38:27] something you just said I remind me of a tweet I saw somebody have that it was like if you

[00:38:32] think of most things that are bad right now and look to the source you'll probably find Ronald Reagan

[00:38:37] so out there still missing with us um yeah I mean I and I like that it's it's gonna be a YA

[00:38:47] graphic novel because it sounds like it's some very topical subject matter doesn't shy away from

[00:38:54] really dealing with um some pretty heavy issues so I think that's important that you know

[00:39:00] we don't with younger people um I don't want to say kids but you know we don't shy uh

[00:39:07] like we don't and not everything has to be light you know I think that's important

[00:39:12] I actually it was really fun working on it because it was operating in a space where

[00:39:16] I mean I am clearly at a very adult-oriented horror person and it was a really fun experience

[00:39:22] he works so closely with Carolina who was the editor for this project and understand kind of

[00:39:27] what you can get away with that in that genre space that is still very holistically acceptable

[00:39:32] like it's it's great to recommend anyone can read it but also still carries quite a lot of

[00:39:38] heavy weight um to bring in manga I am intensely inspired by full metal alchemist and how like

[00:39:44] full metal alchemist was able to bring such I think very very nuanced topics to an audience that

[00:39:49] maybe this would more widespread of age than expected um so yeah it was very cool uh it was fun

[00:39:56] writing teenager that I didn't kill so oh wow it's great

[00:40:02] um and that'll be out I guess later this year yeah I am not allowed to say but later this year

[00:40:14] okay for sure all right good thank you well I don't have to be the first but I mean just one

[00:40:20] I play the first couple of spots yeah the first um and so uh something crawled out it'll be April

[00:40:29] 10th issued number one yes and I I think was it uh was it at San Diego or one of the other

[00:40:38] Comic-Cons maybe it was New York that you did a a signing of something crawled out yeah New York City

[00:40:44] Comic-Con we had this really cool cover that was by Mad Curse like was the super limited edition

[00:40:50] we only did the print for New York City Comic-Con and that was I also it was a really cool experience

[00:40:55] uh I've actually never been to NYCC so that was my first time going I've only been to the local

[00:41:01] Chicago Con's like C2E2 or uh yeah actually mainly that so yeah I was gonna ask if that was your

[00:41:08] first time at New York Comic-Con and what was that it's very intense like it's so hot in there

[00:41:14] and so many people are existing all the time um it was cool though I especially like the kind of

[00:41:23] where indie artist alley boots at the like the lower level because that's where all the weird

[00:41:28] merchant I like weird collect what did you get do you get anything really really weird really good

[00:41:37] god not really honestly uh I think the first thing I bought a lot of comics which was really exciting

[00:41:45] I actually saw one artist who I used to be a fan of way back in the day on like Gaia online again

[00:41:50] very old internet reference but uh she had an art book with all of her art book history from like

[00:41:56] the beginning of like my exposure to her to now and that was really cool uh she was pretty amazing so

[00:42:03] oh that's awesome yeah yeah I I've never been to New York myself I usually go to Baltimore

[00:42:09] at Comic-Con every year but um yeah I always love this stuff that you can find in or that's

[00:42:13] my favorite thing to do just going around artisale and see what everybody's doing what everyone's

[00:42:18] into look at this keychain my friend made it's like a 3d milk charm like what is up with that

[00:42:24] well I love that I know me too it's pretty the liquid move yeah just weird little stuff like that

[00:42:34] that is pretty cool um hey so uh I guess before I let you go I just wanted to ask um

[00:42:42] just kind of I know we're jumping around here but I I had like a long day and uh this is just

[00:42:48] how it is on this podcast where I'm lucky at you know nine o'clock at night I can or 10 o'clock almost

[00:42:54] I can put a full sentence together after work um but thank you uh no I wanted to ask about

[00:43:02] your experience of um right turning your tweets for deathstein or into like a screenplay you know

[00:43:11] in terms of the different writing experiences you know you've you know we've talked about a lot

[00:43:15] of the things you've done whether that's writing for a a webcomic or um you know narrative design

[00:43:22] for games what was that experience like taking you know tweets that you had done and adapting it to

[00:43:28] you know working screenplay yeah it's it was like jumping from I guess like short fiction pros to

[00:43:35] a whole different medium I definitely was very thankful for Reveno it was a fun learning experience

[00:43:42] and she was phenomenal uh during that process I downloaded a million movie scripts uh

[00:43:50] and I instantly have talked to him with my film agent all the time there is a way of writing

[00:43:56] film scripts that are meant to feel like you're not reading a script but at the same time you're not

[00:44:00] supposed to over direct because that's not you know the job and I think it's so opposite coded to

[00:44:06] comics in which you are explicitly claiming the panel size and length and some expectations with the

[00:44:13] shot and of course like um maybe there are different opinions and we'll do something different but

[00:44:17] there's still like this quite expectation of writing it in the script and in film they're like

[00:44:21] do not do this we don't want to know how we swoop in or how we angle this shot because that's

[00:44:28] much more like the actors want to make their own decisions in that and the directors want to make

[00:44:33] their own decisions in that and I find that it's a very just different collaborative nature

[00:44:37] in the end very fun uh definitely would do it again and and currently doing it for other things but

[00:44:45] I think that the big thing I learned is that be willing to go through a million passes

[00:44:53] it is not as sweet it is it is an authored end of the thing

[00:45:00] uh there's two questions I follow up I have one was there one movie script in particular

[00:45:05] that you felt was more helpful than any of the others like there's there one you can call back

[00:45:10] to and said oh I got my hands on the script for this and I got my hands on the script for drive

[00:45:16] I don't know if it was useful but I'm afraid as a fan of the movie I was very excited uh yeah

[00:45:23] I also get recommended a lot uh and recommend a script rating of the first episode of Breaking Bad

[00:45:30] it's really really interesting because their pitch is lying around as well

[00:45:34] and that is a really useful piece of information uh breaking bad even though a debt fighter

[00:45:40] is nothing like that blue i'm assuming the vince gilligan did the first script but I'm not

[00:45:49] not positive but that's interesting uh i'll have to look for that I'd be curious to see with that

[00:45:54] that that pitch and and script look like um the other question I had was was there anything you know

[00:46:02] when you're i imagine when you're adapting something like this from either a short story or tweets

[00:46:06] or whatever it might be that there's things that you know might not work on film or that change over time

[00:46:12] was there anything in the original kind of thread that you did that you were like this I have to keep

[00:46:17] if they cut anything else or if they want me to cut anything else or if I have to cut anything

[00:46:22] else as I'm going through this I'm keeping this one interaction yeah I think that the beauty of

[00:46:30] the white death signer was filmed is that it can be it's not related to a single moment in the

[00:46:35] tweet story it's kind of the universe of its own um and reveta let me keep the bitter sweet tone so

[00:46:42] a lot of my thread ends bitter sweetly i'm very into the oh kind of her um say yeah yeah yeah

[00:46:50] and and reveta has i i like to think she much more beautiful in her story telling that I am

[00:46:57] i'm pretty brutal pretty mean and I think that having our kind of work kind of complement each other

[00:47:05] in this was definitely very different than I think a lot of the tweets felt but still carried

[00:47:09] that same bitter sweet kind of tone or ending at the end that I think was very indicative of my own

[00:47:14] work so um yeah it's it's the bitter sweet feeling yeah I was going back through earlier today knowing

[00:47:23] that we were going to talk and I was looking at the the artist one and um i similar things in terms

[00:47:30] of the like that kind of like bitter sweet tone to it um I think the first one of that is always

[00:47:38] has always been my my favorite with the uh the guy who writes the um

[00:47:45] um let has dreams he writes the letters to his daughter to his daughters yeah wow i'm like

[00:47:54] i'm so happy to remember i've never forgotten it and I looked at it again today so i i could um

[00:48:02] just you know revisiting it knowing that we were going to talk but um

[00:48:08] yeah that was always my favorite one for listeners if you don't know i think you can still

[00:48:12] because i did you can i know you can still find the the tattoo artist thread on a son's twitter page

[00:48:19] but yeah i keep it linked under my pen because the text moments are gone thank you Elon

[00:48:27] yeah i have to keep that link forever yeah i for listeners who don't know or like what

[00:48:33] what are they talking about um and i'll have links to everything i can in the show notes so when

[00:48:39] you're done listening if you skipped over the part where it has the written what this episode is

[00:48:43] about i'll have links in there but son had you know like a kind of death sdiner

[00:48:50] get a twitter thread and then also had one that was the tattoo artist i mean going back to 2020

[00:48:58] um but yeah the the the one is Ulrich finds the shop on accident stumbles in from the bars in his

[00:49:05] lonesome the artist asks what haunts him Ulrich asks for a small pen says in his dreams he writes letters

[00:49:11] to his daughters overseas but just before signing his name runs out of ink he sends them anyway

[00:49:17] god i love that every time i read that

[00:49:22] it means a lot it means a lot more if you ever think it's to do

[00:49:26] um all right well thank you for indulging me and letting me read your own work to you

[00:49:32] but also to the listeners because guys go you have to go check this stuff out but uh what also

[00:49:39] you gotta check out is make sure April 10th you pick up something crawled out from son m and

[00:49:45] mad cursed uh and vault comics son thank you so much for coming on the podcast i appreciate it

[00:49:52] thank you so much for having me it's been a blast i'm sorry it's a late over there oh no it's fine

[00:49:58] it's just it's what i do i like to talk about comics i like to talk about comics with people that make

[00:50:02] comics i like to read and you're one of those people that is the most fulfilling thing to be told

[00:50:10] so yes uh listeners something crawled out vault comics April 10th and then some time later this year

[00:50:16] look for the thief of the heights um from Harper Collins uh which i think is your first like full length

[00:50:23] like graphic novel uh just you know in that format so that's fantastic um yeah and if you haven't

[00:50:30] you definitely want to see if you can get from dark horse animal heads i've read a couple of the

[00:50:35] uh the issues on the webtoons and it's great and especially if you like if you like crime action

[00:50:41] horror uh you're you're you're really gonna you're and wonderful art uh sam curtis stuff is great

[00:50:48] so you're gonna want to pick that up too yeah thanks for the shout out yeah please buy all my stuff i

[00:50:55] promise yeah most of the time uh yeah and uh i don't know if if like i said i we first did the written

[00:51:07] interview with Judas complex from Dauntless stories and i really like that one as well with a jury

[00:51:12] Gomez right um yeah i drew the list also amazing also a child of friend

[00:51:18] yeah you uh you the artist you work with all kind of have like a similar like like um vibe um

[00:51:28] and i feel like your your body of work in comics like really

[00:51:35] has like a certain signature to it both in you're not only you're writing but also

[00:51:39] uh the artist that uh you've collaborated with so um yeah i recommend all of it to uh to listeners um

[00:51:46] so uh listeners if you like the podcast rate and review us and do all that stuff they tell you to do

[00:51:53] please let us know that you like it and um oh i almost forgot shout out to my brother Bobby

[00:51:57] cryptic creator corner's number one most dedicated fan he listens to all my episodes

[00:52:01] and i give miss you uh bobby thank you thank you um but yeah for comic book eddie i'm jimmy gus barrow

[00:52:09] please uh get something crawled out uh thanks to sun m for coming on the podcast and uh

[00:52:15] everyone have a good night and i'll see you next time this is bionneal one of your hosts

[00:52:19] of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book eddie we hope you've enjoyed

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