Stephanie Williams Interview - Warriors And A Wee Wonder

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[00:01:29] Head to 2000AD.com and click on subscribe now or download the 2000AD app and why wait? Start reading today. I'll put links in the show notes for you. Hello everybody and welcome to the Cryptid Creator Corner. I'm Barney O'Neill, your host for our Comics Creator Chat. As we continue my Pride Month feature on the show now in its third year, I've got a new guest that I'm happy to introduce today.

[00:01:53] She is the haloed comics historian, the tastemaker of the mascara, the architect of the new Amazons. And it was just announced as returning to Paradise Island for warriors and a wee wonder telling the story of tiny Princess Diana on DC Go. And certainly not least of all these things is a resident of my now home state of North Carolina. Please welcome the Queen Bee of Blurred Stephanie Williams onto the show. Nice to have you join me today.

[00:02:19] Yeah, it's so great to be here. I cannot wait to talk all things comics because I mean, what better thing to talk about on a Thursday? Yes, exactly. Or any day for that matter. I mean, or any day for that matter, but especially during the weekday.

[00:02:36] Yeah, yeah. Well, it looks like you've been out and about meeting people on the con circuit right now, including one muscular peacemaking personality that was featured in your book, Strange and Unsung All Stars of the DC Multiverse, which I have a copy of right here. It's a fantastic book. That that must have been a true moment for you. It really was. It was also a bit of an adventure, too. So I'll tell a quick, quick story.

[00:03:06] So I was at Fan Expo Philly and I was in the back in the green room and there was a woman who came back. I've seen her a few times. Her daughter actually had worked my table at NYCC a couple of years ago. So really wonderful family. And we were kind of chatting and I forgot that she was working for Fan Expo now. So I was like, well, it's OK if this is a no, but is there any way that I can meet John Cena? She's like, oh, yeah, of course. So I wasn't expecting that answer. So I was like, oh, OK.

[00:03:35] So we go over to the guy who handles all the comics creators and he's like, yeah, if you ever check the back of your badge and you read like the fine print at the bottom, like that's one of the privileges you get as a guest. And I was like, oh, I had no idea. I will be abusing this from now on. But thank you for letting me know. So, yes, exactly. So after my panel on Saturday, someone came and got me.

[00:04:02] We went and he had very big, hulking, scary like guys that were handling the signage line. And we get there and they're just like, hey, like, so what do you want? You want this sign? I was like, no, I don't want it signed. I actually wrote something for John inside of this. And I wanted to gift it to him because this book essentially would have not happened if there wasn't like that much success behind Peacemaker in the show.

[00:04:32] So they're like, oh, well, we'll give it to him. Like, no, I want to give it to him. I'm like, that's the whole purpose. So they were like, we'll just come back at 415. And if anyone has been at a convention, someone telling you to come back at a later time, the likelihood of whatever that was supposed to be happening, slim to none. Because when you're at these cons, while it is amazing and wonderful, they are energy suckers.

[00:04:55] So because if I tell you to come back at a later time, you're playing with fire because I'm more likely will not be there. So I'm just like, OK, so this other guy, security guard, like for real security guard in a black suit, given, you know, MIB vibes, was like, hey, what's going on? So I tell him. And then finally, John Cena, like, witnesses all of this. And he was like, hey, like, what's like, what's up? What do you have there?

[00:05:23] So he was so sweet and so nice. And I was like, I think I called him Mr. Cena. I was like, hey, Mr. Cena, like, I wrote this book. It couldn't have happened without Peacemaker. And he was just really sweet and receptive. And it was just such a great experience. Like, do you want a selfie? I was like, I absolutely do. Because no one's going to believe that I saw you, even if I post this photo. No one's going to know you were there. So I essentially took a photo at John Cena's table. Nice. That's amazing.

[00:05:52] So I was a production assistant for WCW, WWE, back in the Attitude era of things. So John was after my time. But, you know, by all accounts, he is the nicest human being. But having been side by side with some of those guys, like, I remember how big Triple H was. So what does a John Cena bodyguard look like? I mean, these guys have to be like the Hulk.

[00:06:19] Yeah, essentially it was like walking into like a duplicate of just like all these mini Hulks. And it was like, oh, so this is what it's like to get to the final boss. Okay. Nice. Dark Souls. So that's what it felt like. It felt like a Dark Souls battle. Okay. All right. Well, that's really cool. I was revisiting my own copy the other night prepping for the interview.

[00:06:40] And I'm amazed since this drop just a couple of years ago, how many have resurfaced, you know, proving your next level prognostication skills clearly. Yes. So what was the catalyst for wanting to highlight some of DC's lesser known characters for you? So actually the book pitch was brought to me by my editor, Randall Lovitz, who is on that.

[00:07:04] And he was like, hey, you know, well, they'll have some picks for you, but like get it together. So I was like, okay, I'm going to find as many weird people as I possibly can. And sure enough, like someone like Golden Glider, which felt so random. Velvet Tiger. I just wanted to like really shine a light on some of these characters that I hope would make a comeback. And they have. So, of course, we have Creature Commandos.

[00:07:33] Golden Glider did show up in the Kite Man show. Who else do we have? Someone else just recently popped up. And I'm blanking on it. Rob was choosing Tin Fingers Man or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, okay. Well, the prophecy does fulfill itself. Now, if only if I can convince some editors at DC to let me bring back Justice League up in Antarctica, you know, I will be a happy camper. Okay.

[00:08:03] So what is it with Justice League and Antarctica? I just think it's just the silliest and goofiest thing. So it's this trio of D-level, E-level villains. They are unemployed. So they meet at the unemployment office in New York. And they're all kind of like, hey, why are we here when we could just be doing crime? So they leave the unemployment office to go rob a bank. But there's already a bank robbery in process.

[00:08:31] So they inadvertently end up saving the day. And Max Lord at the time is working out of the Justice League building for whatever reason. Don't know why that is. And he also doesn't like Nort. So he's like, okay, well, you all can be a new team. So he puts them together, makes Nort the leader or whatever, and then ships them off to Antarctica where they literally fight penguins. Evil penguins at that.

[00:09:00] It's just a really, yes. It's really, like, for real penguins. It's just a silly nostalgicness of it all from, like, the 80s and some of these stories that we would get where they weren't necessarily serious or anything. It's just literally just goofy, you know, villains trying to not be heroes but still ended up being heroes. And then poor Nort being in charge of them. I really like the Clock King.

[00:09:31] I think he's got a lot of potential with a silhouette. I'm sure an artist could go crazy with a modern interpretation of him. Absolutely. I'm even thinking of Tattoo Man, which we've gotten many iterations of. Be nice to see him again. Dog Welder. Very, very odd one. Wouldn't I mind? Dog Welder.

[00:09:53] Yeah, like, when I came across that character, I was like, there's no way his name actually is any clue to what he does. And it was. He wells dolls to himself. And he happened to save the world from an asteroid, which is so insane to me. But that's comic. Yeah. Yeah. Or what was the 80s? Is that when it was? The 80s? Mm-hmm. Okay, maybe that was just a lot of... No, this was, like, late... No, actually, I take that back. This is more mid-90s, late-90s.

[00:10:24] Okay. So very extreme on top of that. The 90s were just weird in some ways, though. In a good way, right? Yeah. It brought us Doom Patrol and those iterations and all the Vertigo stuff. So, I mean, it was just a... It was a time for exploration. We'll leave it there. It surely was. It surely was. Then you have Beard Hunter, a guy who literally hunts guys because of their beards.

[00:10:50] Um, which I just thought, what a weird vendetta. But, obviously, like, you are committed. Um, who else? Uh, there is also... Uh, I'm blanking. Um, wow. Okay, never mind. I lost my train of thought. But... Oh, Captain Triumph, uh, who gets his superpowers because his twin brother dies.

[00:11:17] And then, like, when the soul of his twin brother, like, merges with him, uh, that's when he gets his powers. You know, like, little fun stuff. Little fun stuff like that. Uh, oh, yeah. I would really love to take on a Scare Tactics book myself. Yes. Considering my background in music. Oh, my God, yes. And, I mean, come on. I... You've got... I've got Lupus myself. So, you have a werewolf, right? So, here's my Canis Lupus connection. Who plays lead guitar.

[00:11:45] Who's from a clan in southern Appalachia. Like, I'm from East Tennessee. So, DC Editorial. Like, my DMs are open. Hit me up for Scare Tactics. Listen, I'm gonna... I'll slide to someone's DMs and say, hey, I know a guy. Well, the book is fantastic. So, anyone listening, make sure to pick this up if you haven't. Or you can consider getting it for a comics friend or a loved one as a gift. Great gift idea.

[00:12:13] Now that my sales pitch is over, you're probably most famous for another lesser-known DC character. Not included in the book. Nubia. Who debuted around the time I was born across three issues of Wonder Woman starting in 204. We need not go into when that was, to spare my feelings. But her journey has morphed over time. But didn't become especially relevant until recently. So, what's your personal trajectory with her?

[00:12:39] Um, you know, for Nubia to have been my first, like, major comic gig. And so many parallels between, um, her journey and myself. Uh, especially because she had been gone for so long. Like, she was a character that was introduced and then just kind of fell to the wayside. Um, which I always thought was such a crime to be introduced as Wonder Woman's twin sister.

[00:13:07] And then to never really see the light of day after that. Um, so to bring her, yeah. So, like, to bring her out. Um, so they, so the way editorial had it was that she had been champion of Doom's doorway to kind of explain away, uh, why she had been missing the entire time. And for her to go from that to being thrust into the spotlight, essentially as Queen of Themyscira, that is a huge shift.

[00:13:33] To go from, like, your, you know, your basement level job to, like, being in the penthouse, um, essentially overnight. Um, so much. And I felt the same way. To go from someone who people mainly knew online from, um, my comic hot takes, memes, and things like that. To, like, writing this character where it's going to be a little bit more serious than what people were used to seeing from my voice. Um, it was a huge undertaking.

[00:14:02] But it was one that was ready for the challenge in the same way that Nubia was ready to take over as Queen. Um, so a lot of, a lot of cathartic writing, uh, happened during this. And I'm just so happy that, uh, from all the work that we put into this character, she has not gone back onto the shelf. We've started to see different iterations of her, like in kids' books, a video game recently, uh, with the, uh, yeah, it was a multiversal game.

[00:14:30] Um, she was, um, more than a skin brief. Yeah. I had, my, my son plays the game. He was like, oh, mom, Nubia's here. And I was like, oh, that is really cool. Right? Nice. Um, for her to get, I think Burger King at one time, like she was part of the Happy Meal situation, which was really cool. So, you know, once your character is, um, being used for capitalistic purposes, um, you know that. You've made it. You've made it.

[00:14:58] So, that, that, that in itself has been great. Well, I was thinking about some of the unique challenges that are associated with developing Nubia as a prominent black superhero. So, how did you want to use the mascara to help create a lived-in experience for her? Because she didn't have a lot of canon as opposed to somebody like Jon Stewart or Storm.

[00:15:21] So, um, DC kind of set this up or I don't, it wasn't knowingly on their part, but it just so happened to work out when they asked us to change her origin story. Um, so, in doing so, um, I just remember, like, really loving the concept of the, um, Cavern of Souls that, um, George Perez had introduced. Okay. And, uh, Jordi Belair was already, like, reworking in The Well of Souls in her Young Diana run.

[00:15:50] So, I was like, oh, okay, well, it's already here. So, we'll have Nubia come through The Well of Souls. Uh, that way, um, you know, she's not just some woman who washed up on shore, uh, but she was reborn in Amazon. And also, her coming through The Well was right around the same time Diana was born. So, that later down the line, um, we could perhaps, you know, tie those two together, which I am currently doing right now in Warriors of the Wee Wonder. So, plans were made.

[00:16:20] Um, so, I thought that would, that would be a really great way to kind of have her, um, be very much a part of the Amazons. Um, and then we could really dig into, um, making her relatable again by having her go and have this huge promotion. And how would people react to that? How would the Amazons react to that? Uh, some of them you saw throughout the series were fully supportive. Others were questioned, you know, questioned it.

[00:16:46] But, but I thought that that was important to show that even though this is called Paradise Island, it does not mean that it is just rainbows and buttercups the entire time. That's not the case. Um, so, reading, um, Madeline Miller's Circe was a huge help. Um, just because in that book, um, you know, women are the protagonists, antagonists, and everything in between. And because I knew this story was going to take place solely on Themyscira,

[00:17:12] it was important to not only flesh out Nubia, but also, uh, just some of the other Amazons, uh, just their way of life to kind of get into that. Because I figured if you were going to care about her and her being queen, then you also need to care about the women that she was essentially in charge of. So, that was the other idea behind introducing new Amazons. So, one, they can just kind of act as like this voyeuristic thing for readers.

[00:17:41] And then, uh, also kind of give an idea of what Nubia might have felt when she had first came out the well herself. And you're kind of getting a little bit of, um, I don't know, like a little bit of her backstory through them. Um, until we could actually, for real, flesh out her backstory in, uh, the second series.

[00:18:03] Is it easier or harder when you have a character that you have to mold this much around? Well, that is, uh, of course, harder. Um, just because, uh, especially because she was essentially kind of like a legacy character, but not really. Um, so it was a little tricky. So, Nubia was, as the way that I've explained it, was, you know, if I think of her character as a sandbox,

[00:18:32] like, the sandbox itself was built, but, like, there was just no sand there. So we had to, like, bring the sand there and make it what it was. Um, because also, even though she didn't have a lot of backstory, she was still a character that a lot of people had an affinity for. Um, which means that you're, like, competing with, you know, folks' headcanons and, you know, all of these things. So, how do you take that into account? And you really can't, like, you just can't compete with other folks' imaginations.

[00:19:01] But how do you present a character that, um, most people know her because of Wonder Woman, because of Diana, and, um, I don't know, make her someone that she's able to stand on herself, by herself. So when you think of Nubia, you are hopefully essentially just thinking of Nubia and not giving her value, uh, based on her proximity to Diana. So it wasn't a thing of one is better than the other, because, no, they're both, they're both women who have come from these amazing people.

[00:19:32] Um, so, like, let's focus on, at its core, what it means to be an Amazon, and then kind of build on top of that. Um, that was kind of the approach there, which made it a little bit more easier once, uh, that was the direction, um, I knew I wanted to take. Okay. Well, historically speaking, uh, Themysera is seen as feminism territory, white feminism territory, historically. Nubia is DC's first black superheroine,

[00:20:00] and she's queer herself and the queen of a trans-inclusive kingdom. Topography is important in the DC universe more than even at Marvel, because the cities are characters in and of themselves. Yes. Things changing in those locales are more gender binary, thinking of Gotham or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Could you, could you tell that same story outside of Themyscira? Um, I believe so. Okay.

[00:20:28] But I don't think that, I don't think the impact would be the same. So the, the idea, uh, essentially because you're right, and that was kind of like my contention sometimes with just, uh, the thought of, you know, DC's, Amazon's, Wonder Woman, and Themyscira, because for a while it was very homogenous. And it was really tied to, um, you know, just different visuals when it came to white feminism.

[00:20:54] And I figure if this black woman, even though, um, race is not seen in the, or treated the same way on Themyscira as it is out in the rest of the world, um, visually that is still there. Um, and for the readers. So I don't know, like, I just felt, felt like that if we were going to tell this story in a way that hopefully was going to be relatable to folks, and then also something that they were remembered, then Themyscira itself also needed to kind of update it.

[00:21:24] And I felt like through the years it had been, um, again, going back to George Perez's run, like that is the first time I remember, um, you know, opening up a Wonder Woman book and they're on Themyscira and it not being homogenous, so homogenous. Like I saw different skin tones. So I said, okay, so let's kick that up a notch. And, um, to me that would mean like, so who else would be on this island? If this is an island where women who have been harmed in man's world

[00:21:53] would go to, what does that look like? And we have to broaden that up. Um, because if we don't, then we're saying that certain women, when they're harmed, don't deserve a second chance at life. Don't deserve to be reborn on this island. And that's not fair. Like that's not the type of Themyscira that I would think even Hippolyta would want to rule, especially Nubia. So, um, it was very important to take a look at that.

[00:22:22] Um, and the introduction of Bia, uh, really was one, taking that into account, but also I wanted it to be so that whoever came after me, um, and they happened to like want to write a story within Themyscira or with the Amazons. And if they did want to introduce a trans Amazon, they absolutely could. Because we said in like a very divine way that this woman came through the will of souls in a discussion. And, and, and that is essentially it.

[00:22:51] Um, because canon is important. Um, or canon can be important. So if I was able to put that canonically there, then hopefully that made life a lot easier for anyone else, um, who decided to, uh, write stories that were on that side of the DC universe. Well, to be clear, we want you to be that person to write this story. Yes, I would love to. And thankfully, um, I'm getting a chance to do a little bit more of that, uh, what worry is a weep wonder

[00:23:18] because slice of life allows you to really get into the nitty gritty of day-to-day life. And, um, it's given me a chance to show these women in a way that we have not really seen. Uh, because we know them as warriors. Um, we got to kind of get to see them at rest a little bit in Newbie and the Amazons. But, um, what worry is in the weep wonder, like you've got, uh, this island full, full of women trying to handle baby Diana,

[00:23:45] who is not, is not a gentle baby. She's a cute and wonderful baby, but she is an active child. Yeah, yeah. It looks like she's maybe up to a bit of trouble in this. Oh, absolutely. Um, we have some surprises for, um, a particular Wonder Woman villain, uh, who does show up on the island. And, uh, let's just say that, um,

[00:24:14] it was heavily inspired by what, um, Kelly Thompson is doing right now. Um, an absolute Wonder Woman. I've, like, absolutely loved everything she's been doing with that. And I wanted to find a way to kind of infuse some of that into Warriors of a Weep Wonder. And, um, I don't want to give anything away because there's, like, a lot of surprises that are going to come. But if you are a fan of that series, you will absolutely be a fan of this. So, here to there.

[00:24:44] Like, um, I'm not the only one excited about this. I bounced over to Reddit to kind of gauge how people are responding. And honestly, it cracked me up because it started with, please be gay, please be gay, please be gay. Oh, it is. It feels very much in your wheelhouse as a slice of life superhero story. And also, you can pull from your experiences as a mom. Yeah. So, I'm certain you have loads of ideas to develop about the Amazons now that you've created it and all their culture.

[00:25:13] So, how did we end up from Nubia to more of a kid's story? So, um, it's funny. Last year, um, I want to say, like, around July, I had sent a co-pitch to, um, my editor that I work with on Nubia Britney. And I was like, hey, like, you know, I'm just sending this to you because, like, I got to get it off my chest. So, it was originally, um, I had the idea of Tales of the Amazons. So, that actually is a trade paperback that you could pick up.

[00:25:43] Uh, but it's just, like, this, um, assortment of stories. So, uh, I think Nubia's Coordination Special is in that. Um, a couple of Wonder Girl, Yara Floor stories, Wonder Woman, and also Young Diana. I really like that, you know, kind of introducing people to, uh, you know, a little buffet of Amazon. So, I wanted to do something similar, but, uh, to focus on, um, a story with Philippus, like a one-shot, where we're just getting the focus

[00:26:13] on her and, like, why she is the way that she is. Apollosa and Antiope, like, what were those earlier years on the island? Um, Artemis, of course. Nubia, um, I think her story, the way that I pitched it originally, was gonna, like, follow her in her early days, um, as Guardian of Doom's Doorway, and then Bia, of course, I was gonna, just gonna do something completely new, um, with her. So, my editor, she loved it, but did not, because it was,

[00:26:42] I was like, of course there'll be action, because there has to be, but, um, for me, this would be a little bit more slice-of-life leaning, a little bit more of the quieter moments, because that is when I feel like we get some of the best character development. I am a fan of silver and bronze age comics, so, uh, unfortunately, that is, that's how I feel. So, um, at the time, I had no idea that DC Go was a thing that was gonna exist. Um, so, she was like, I think there is a platform that this will work best on.

[00:27:11] Uh, so we met at Chicago Fan Expo, talked about it a little bit more, and she put me in contact with Sabrina Fooch, who is my editor on Worries That Would We Wonder. And we just started, like, workshopping some things, because with the DC Go titles, um, there needs to be a catch to them, essentially. And I was like, oh, well, say less. I can absolutely give you that, and then hopefully still be able to do what it is that I originally wanted to. Um, so I knew that it would hopefully get

[00:27:41] an easier green light would happen if Diana was there, but, um, because Diana is just such this big character, I was like, it can't be grown, Diana. Like, we're gonna, let's bring it back, um, and let's do, uh, toddler Diana. And, like, these women trying to figure out how to raise a kid, but also, um, if she's younger, then, uh, we get to see the Amazons a little bit younger, even though, like, they're immortal. Uh, so we can get into, like, their dating customs,

[00:28:11] uh, holidays, um, how choosing the next champion works, um, and just the day-to-day life on Themyscira. So once I reworked the pitch, um, and it was, it ended up being an instant yes, because I'm like, you know what, think Babysitter's Club, but with the Amazons. So even though, like, there's a, Diana's there as a, um, as a kid, I would say this is really more all ages than it is just, um, you know,

[00:28:41] strictly a kid thing. Like, the way that I thought about it is if we were to ever get a Wonder Woman animated show, um, this could, this could be it. Um, like, that's the way that, um, I, I kind of pitched it, and it happened to work out. I mean, the artwork looks so good. That's so perfect. Jane, Jane Pika and Emily Pearson you're working with? Yes. Yes. Um, they have been phenomenal. Um, the moment that I got, uh, like, Jane's roughs, like, her sketches

[00:29:11] and Emily's, I was like, well, I don't know if the refs are in the room because these look amazing. Uh, but just, just so good and, uh, the, the comedy of it all, like, the episodes both start and end on Olympus because the idea here was to, um, have the guys watching the Amazons as though they were watching a reality TV show. Um, so we get some of the guys humor there. Um, and then, of course, there's some meddling going on

[00:29:41] because Athena is one of our guys, so why not? Uh, but it's just, uh, it's just really a fun time. Um, I wanted it to be a read that no matter what, you're having a good day, a bad day, whatever, you read Warriors or We Wonder, like, you walk away feeling like, I don't know, like, better than you did before you began reading it. Like, that was the whole thing. And I just really love how gay it's been too. Um, yeah, I mean, duh,

[00:30:11] but also, it's just a little small, small moments. Um, there's even an episode that is focused on Hippolyta and Philippa's going, celebrating their anniversary, which is really cute. Yeah. Yeah, I will submit that this project is among some other great company too. I'll pat my own fortune on the back by saying I'm covering three of the six of those DC Go releases this month for Pride Month. Totally by happenstance, I'm sure, but I'll say

[00:30:40] it's due to my own impeccable talent recognizing abilities. I rolled a 20 because we've got Steve Orlando talking about magical mysteries of Shazam and Josh Trujillo talking about the Aquaman ho-ho-hold onto your hook, which, that's a great pirate line there. I said One Piece meets Aquaman. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, it looks fantastic. All righty, everybody, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[00:32:09] but if it piqued your interest to hear about it, head on over to the Order of the Nenya on Kickstarter so you don't miss it. I'll put a link in the show notes for you to make it easy. Y'all, Jimmy, the Chaos Goblin strikes again. I should have known better than to mention I was working on my DC Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad. He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators we know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we can start playing. Another friend chimes in,

[00:32:39] are you gonna make maps? It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together so I guess? Question mark? It was then that I discovered Arkhamforge. If you don't know who Arkhamforge is, they have everything you need to make your TTRPG more fun and immersive. Allowing you to build, play, and export animated maps including in-person fog of war capability that lets your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you, the DM, get the full picture. Now I'm set to easily

[00:33:08] build high-res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign. That's a win every day in my book. Check them out at arkhamforge.com and use the discount code YETI5 to get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkhamforge for partnering with our show. I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a goblin warlock just to get even. Welcome back. Dropping this stuff in the midst of the culture wars

[00:33:38] of 2025, you know, it's this weird dichotomy that we have going on in the country because on one hand we're erasing the history of the queer struggle and that of people of color and on the other hand it's quite clearly an appetite for queer stories and queer content that rich men who own majority stakes in media companies have to respond to. Ideology is one thing, fashion still king, it always will be. Is that weight of representation for you as a writer something you ever

[00:34:08] struggle with? Like given the context of everything that's going on? To be honest, no, right? And I don't mean that in a dismissive way. I just know that no matter what story I want to tell because of who I am and how I present, it is gonna be a problem to someone. So for that reason, those things don't really cross my mind because I want to tell the stories that I want to tell.

[00:34:38] Yeah. And you can either support it or you don't. And again, not to be flipping about it, but it's just, no, because either way, like I have an announcement that'll be happening next month for a book that I'm very excited for too with IDW and I already know that it is something that... Yeah, yeah. Which it shouldn't be because it's like such a fun project. Wrestling is definitely

[00:35:08] a part of this project. And yeah, like I already know that there might be, I hope there isn't, but I can see some folks not being too happy about me writing it and thinking that it's a DEI thing and I'm like, no, it's actually, I was a huge fan of this show when I was younger. So this actually just happened to a mind. So, you know, shitty people are going to unfortunately continue to exist and I refuse

[00:35:37] to let them dictate how I live my life because, yeah, like, no. Like, go ruin someone else. Go ruin your own day. And essentially that's what they end up doing because they limit themselves and I just don't see how life is worth living when you're just being so atrocious and just getting joy out of making other people's lives miserable. Like, I don't know if they believe in karma or not,

[00:36:07] but it always comes back in some way. Yeah, I don't understand people who wallow in toxicity. It just doesn't make sense to me at all. It ages you. On that, you're talking about IDW and you've got DC, so how are the, how are the different, is there a difference between working at the big two and sort of what you can get away with and working in indie comics in terms of queer representation in 2025? Yeah,

[00:36:37] I think that there is a bit of a difference. I haven't, like, I've been fortunate enough to not really face any, like, no, you can't do that for any of the queer stories that are written at the big two. same thing at IDW and some of the smaller companies. Like, I can't speak to that because I've, I haven't really gotten too much pushback. Even the creator-owned stuff that I'm working on right now with Ignition

[00:37:07] Press and Mad Cave, same thing. No, not to say that it doesn't happen, I'm pretty sure that it does, but I've been fortunate enough that I haven't, I haven't been told, like, oh no, you can't do that. Because I try to do my best when I'm writing these stories to make it very hard if possible for editorial or for higher ups to say no because no, like, it's part of the story and it makes sense. You know that it makes sense,

[00:37:37] so please allow me to keep this. So, so far, and I'll knock on this not wood desk that that continues, but so far so good. Okay. Are there any barriers that are obvious to you? I mean, what are the barriers? I've always gotten into this and I'm always curious about what exactly is the glass ceiling and are we there yet? In quotes, right? Obviously, we're not, but it feels like, especially in the last

[00:38:06] couple years, we've gotten a lot of tremendous momentum writing and representing queer characters across the board in comics. Yeah. So, what do the barriers feel like to you for the next step? Um, I think that they're going to get, you know, harder, like, more difficult, but I think because of the momentum that we have and if we're able to keep that, even with the next barrier that comes, we'll be able to push through.

[00:38:36] Um, I feel like the glass ceiling will only begin to exist if we stop trying. Uh, because you can only, I mean, someone could tell you no oh so many times, you just pivot and then you either go somewhere else to someone who wants a story, um, or find, like, you know, as, uh, life will find a way, stories will find a way, um, to, to exist. Um, we have so many amazing indie artists who are doing whatever the hell they want

[00:39:06] in the best way and, um, they have major success because of that and because cash is king and these bigger companies see that even if they are wholly against what is going on, they're not against those bottom lines and does that make it good? Maybe not. Um, there's some, you know, you know, some questionable things there but I'm a type of person where I'm just like, well, if you're gonna say yes to

[00:39:35] this thing, then I'm gonna go ahead and do it and if you're gonna pay me to do the thing, I'm gonna go ahead and do it. Um, and how you personally feel about it, that is your business but I know that the way that this is gonna go out and be received in the world is in a way that is much needed. um, so, um, I don't know, it's tricky, Brian, Byron, it is like, it's, it's tricky, um, because it's one of those things where you have to pick your battles, um, at least that's what I've been learning, um,

[00:40:06] because the other thing too is that, you know, not all queer stories are gonna look the same, um, so maybe that's a barrier right there, that, uh, sometimes companies are looking for a certain type of queer story that sometimes feels very inauthentic because it's just not authentic at all, um, and that's when you as a creator have to maybe put your foot down and say, no, this isn't really how this would go,

[00:40:36] and if you guys want me to tell this story, you brought me in to do this thing, then you need to allow me to do it, or I walk. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things that I really was impressed with and I felt with Nubia, the characters felt so lived in, it felt so real and vibrant and established because a lot of times, well, I mean, that's a generalization on my part, but when you have a queer character,

[00:41:06] I turned the clock back, you know, four or five years and we were seeing a lot of hand raising with, let's acknowledge that this is a queer character and we've got that in there and that's, it's almost like, yay, we've gotten it in there, you know, and I think we've turned and pushed that forward so now it just feels very natural and that's what I love about Nubia. I was doing a Women in Comics feature back in March

[00:41:36] which is something I'm going to continue to do and looking at how artists and writers are redefining the looks of our heroes and stories from hair to fashion to skin tones, body types, you know, eschewing that traditional cis male focused lens that we've all been boxed into for so long. So getting the opportunity to package these women and femme presenting people from the visual standpoint,

[00:42:05] how did you want to accentuate strong femme queer and get that balance right so it felt lived in? Yeah, and I mean, not to make it sound so simple, but really honestly at its core treating them like people, right? And then like just as regular people and then layering on top of that through, you know, personal experiences, experiences of friends and folks that I

[00:42:35] spoke to, but really just at the core and at the base, just treating them as regular people and then adding on the other stuff as accessory. Well, I don't even want to say accessory because that sounds terrible, but... Like a pocketbook? Yeah, like no, because we're not wearing our identities like that, but... Right. Or actually maybe because I didn't treat it like that, I should say, that it doesn't come off that way and it's just very intrinsically, it's just them. In the same way that I

[00:43:05] would... All the Black characters that I've ever written, like I don't need to remind you that they're Black because you can physically see that they're Black. So I don't need to focus... I don't have to make that the focus of the story in a way that just feels like, hey, reminder, like I don't need to do that. And I think when you don't do that, or at least in my experience, then you one, you still get this character that is very representative of who they're supposed to be,

[00:43:35] but at the same time, folks who maybe wouldn't have been so receptive are like, oh, hey, oh, they're just like me. Well, yes, so is the very real person who you are voting against and all of these things. They're just like you. They're human just like you. So treating the characters the same way. They're not going to go on a tangent, but this is related. Last year I was at a Heroes Con and I did a panel with Gene Ha and

[00:44:05] Colleen Duren. It was a Wonder Woman panel. And I got to talk about Manubia and just like my approach. And the very next day, the guy who was at the panel came to my table and he's just like, yeah, I just had to come over here and want to buy some books because, you know, I hate to admit this, but when I first heard about Nubia and this book coming out, like I just kind of dismissed it because I thought that it was, you know, another, I don't know, like we're

[00:44:34] making this character black and we're just doing it just because a cash grab and so on. But he was like when I actually heard you talk about the character and like your process and all these other things, I realized I was completely wrong. And so he apologized for that and brought a bunch of books and we talked some more, but he was like, I'm just thank you for, you know, allowing, helping me see the light of day by simply just

[00:45:04] talking about your creative process and, you know, about this character. And I couldn't do anything but just say, you know, you're welcome and also thank you for coming back and realizing that you were wrong and wanting to actually get involved and read more about this character and also support me in my work. So like, that was an uncomfortable conversation, but like those conversations need to happen.

[00:45:32] And I think it was in that moment where I was just reminded me and also reaffirmed to me that if you just do the thing, like if you just treat and do this thing, I don't know, like if you're not trying to like check off any boxes and you're literally just trying to tell a story where your characters just so happen to be all of these other things, people are going to see that. And it's hopefully through

[00:46:02] your writing you'll also bring them to the light and seeing that whatever preconceived notions that they had, were wrong. Because if folks are not around, you know, people in different ways of life, then they don't know. It doesn't excuse that because it's up to you to figure that out. But like sometimes it really is folks just being wrong because of just these ill assumptions that they have. But hopefully there are more people out in the world that were like this man who

[00:46:32] could realize that and not let ego get in the way. And, you know, now finally have a great time reading new in the Amazons. Yeah, that's awesome that he came back, especially that he spent money. I mean, like, admitting you're wrong, then spending money. Everything on my table, yes. That's great. Yeah. That's fantastic. So that, can you only work through some of that stuff? We hear about and have all

[00:47:02] experienced online toxicity and just, you know, how bad it gets. So can you only do that in a face-to-face interaction, you know? You know, sometimes it feels that way because online allows people to not, they are able to mask in a way that they can't in real life. Right? Like, because when you're in front of someone, hopefully you're looking them in the eye, I feel like

[00:47:31] that veil of comfort is no longer really there and you really have to connect with the human in a way that you can't online. It's a little bit different. Another reason why I really like going to conventions because the folks who are there want to be there and the folks that come to your table want to come to your table. And not that it's just, you know, I want to be praised or anything like that, but it's nice to have a genuine connection

[00:48:01] with someone who, you know, has read what you have done, you know, appreciates your work and, you know, can just see like what you're literally out here trying online because sometimes it can become an echo chamber and all of these things. I don't know, like it just, I feel like you sure you could possibly change someone's mind online, but I don't know, like something about in in-person real life connections

[00:48:30] to me, I don't know, they hit a lot, they hit in a way that online cannot. Yeah, and I think some of it is as simple as just being able to look somebody in the eye because when you have to do that, you know, when you have to make that connection with them, it's just different, you know? Do you have any advice for people for avoiding the noise and that toxicity that is online for comic professionals out there? We have a lot to actually listen to the show,

[00:49:00] so do you have any advice for people who are just getting hit? Yeah, it's tough and it sucks. Some of it is avoidable, others is not. I guess I would like to remind you that you are the person that was hired to tell this story, so trust in that, and the fact that you are the storyteller, the creator, whatever, you have to have faith in that. People are going to have their opinions and that's just

[00:49:30] that, but their opinions, I don't know, they have a time limit on it, but your work does not. Your work is always going to be on a shelf somewhere or digitally available somewhere, so I don't know, stand firm in that. Don't go looking for stuff that you don't need to. Sometimes we find trouble when we shouldn't. I know we can get curious sometimes and want to know how people are feeling about the things that we're doing, but just

[00:49:59] know that as much as you might find the good stuff, you are going to find the bad stuff and you have to ask yourself, is it worth, I don't know, is it worth my time and energy? Is it worth seeing people praise me and then also people bash me at the same time? And oftentimes it's not. And even if it's not directly to your work, if you are anyone, not even just a creator, taking time offline is just so important.

[00:50:30] Because I know for me personally, especially when I'm in deadlines or I'm just trying to really get into a creative mindset, I try my best to stay off of social media or go long periods of not being on. There's just a difference. Not being bombarded with a thousand strangers' opinions, world events, all of these things. I'm not saying completely ignore what's going on, but it gets a little hard to create when you got more

[00:50:59] than just the delusional wastes in your head that we as creators have to go with the other stuff. So take those breaks. I know we've been trained that we have to be online and we have to be available and all these things to get more work and stuff, but in fact, you can find work on LinkedIn. I just recently shared that with folks and they were very surprised by that. But if you're a comic creator, set that LinkedIn account up.

[00:51:29] You would be very surprised who's on there and who will reach out to you because they are also trying to avoid all of the noise from these different sites. LinkedIn is toxic in its own way, but it's a type of toxic where, oh yes, it's a type of toxic where you can kind of like check that out. If you don't have a LinkedIn account, great one just to be on there. It's corporate toxic, which I can handle and I find

[00:51:59] entertaining at times because it's always the same stuff. Disconnect. That's the best advice we can give anybody. Yeah, you got to. I always check out the Comic Book Getty Discord if people have questions for upcoming guests. So Lulise asked who else in the big two that you'd like to write and I know he won't care if I take this a step further because I listened to your chat with Bitches in Comics which is a great show by the way. Check them out. I'll put a link in the show notes. Fantastic.

[00:52:29] But Old Lady Storm in the vein of Old Man Logan and tell me more because I have this version of a snarky Eartha Kitt firing off Santa Baby motherfucker in my head firing off lightning bolts like an irritated goddess. I love her. She will always be Catwoman to me. probably not your vision but I'm delighted to be corrected here. I mean that's kind of close. Okay. So very

[00:52:59] Eartha Kitt Cicely Tyson ask Debbie Morgan who I don't know why I was getting my hair done and was watching Beauty in Black a Tyler Perry production on Netflix. I don't watch it. Maybe you should but it's insane but okay. I just would like to put a very crotchety irritated Storm for us to see her in a way where we haven't like less

[00:53:28] regal and not in like a you know street urchin way which she was raised as but just yeah like because I see so many parallels between Storm and Wolverine even in their current iterations and I just think an old man Logan type story would best fit her so someone who is just tired and doesn't want to show up and doesn't want to wear the mask in the way

[00:53:58] that she has and is just really fed up and you know she she comes out and she's I don't know kind of like really leaning into the whole Morlock thing too okay so I like I they ever let me it's a 12 issue maxi series that I have 12 yeah because I would even like to get into some of her stuff that was introduced in that short magic run from the

[00:54:28] 80s so it was a magic limited series four issues and Bosco or whatever his name is the guy who storm learned magic from or or he helped her kind of elevate her magical abilities and then it goes terrible because he's a terrible person so kind of to get into that a little bit yeah like I just want to see storm in whatever this broken world looks like in her

[00:54:59] and like yeah sure possibly I could fix this but I don't feel like and I don't want to and then hopefully someone coming through and convincing her to maybe do something about it I I I'm down that sounds pretty cool yeah Mad Max Fury Road like let me let me take you know else who I kind of see her as Tina Turner's character in Mad Max 3 okay and what is

[00:55:28] her name wow welcome to the Thunderdome I'm forgetting her name the character's name but I kind of see her it's been a while I know you can say Tina Turner you can say Mel Gibson and I have a landing point but aside from that yeah no I'm blanking on her character um the character's name and I'm pretty sure I'm going to remember after fact and going to be very mad but anyway oh that's inevitable yeah well what else you got cooking we ones is coming out in

[00:55:58] July we wonder is coming out in July yes we um yeah so the thing for IDW will be announced next month and I'll be doing some signings for it at SDCC they might even have a whole activation for that um then I have a cosmic horror that I've been working on with um ignition press um you'll actually get to read 12 pages of that um at SDCC um

[00:56:27] so they just had a kickstarter for Jeremy Han's um cold case or cold uh cold open for um the murder podcast book that he's putting out so it'll be something along the similar lines and I'm very excited for that because uh one I said I would never write anything past the 1980s or set past the 1980s I lied the story is set in 1905 um my character is a black woman she goes back to Savannah Georgia

[00:56:57] but think I don't know like if Ryan Coogler had directed Annihilation like this is the way that I would um kind of sell this and if you enjoy sinners because I started writing this well before sinners came out or we even knew what sinners was really gonna be so it's really nice to kind of see that there is some synergy there uh so that makes me uh very excited and um happy and then um the project that I have with mad cave studios that will be announced I think

[00:57:26] next month too and that is a sci-fi adventure um and starring it's it's a time traveling thing that was also something I said I would never do and then I lied and I did it so um that story was um pretty much influenced by uh me going to conventions my son is really big in like retro video games which for him like that's Nintendo 64 Game Boy which makes

[00:57:56] me feel terrible I'm so old okay so uh when I'm at these conventions I'm often like searching for these things for them and um kind of turn into like Lara Croft in a way um but for like retro video games into ways so it's about like well if Time Cop kind of merged with this whole thing how would this look so uh that is that story for mad cave studios it's been really fun writing both of these but man the thing with IDW

[00:58:26] I like I have an email open right now with art and I just really cannot wait for you all to see this because it's such a fun thing so if you are a fan of 90s cartoons and wrestling you're going to have a great time okay I'm here for that so you've got sci-fi and you've got cosmic horror 2 coming you're really broadening your horizons I'm happy to hear this thank you yeah um cause I just I just really love storytelling

[00:58:55] and as I've been telling people lately that I don't care what the genre is um if the story calls for it then I'm gonna figure it out um I think I spent all of last year like really digging into the whole cosmic horror thing I'd I'm obsessed with um Jeff Vandermeer and his writing and a lot of times it kind of leans into that so um yeah I'm finally getting a chance to like really spread my wings and it's been chaotic writing so many things in so many different genres but

[00:59:25] also at the same time really enough like it's it's helped um I yeah like it just I don't know how to explain it but it's helped like I have a a mood board and it looks insane but um sometimes the cosmic horror stuff makes me think of oh well this might be a really great idea for um you know sci-fi and then I go down like this rabbit hole and next thing I know I'm looking at you know wrestling videos so it's uh okay it's been it's been a fun time so are

[00:59:55] you finding as you're doing that that your voice is changing yes but in ways that fit the story which I think okay for me um I don't like I felt like I've really turned a corner as a writer creator this year um and I can see that through my work um the editors that I've been working with um have also seen that um which has just been again like really reaffirming to

[01:00:25] me like yeah like you're you've been learning like from my whole thing from the first time I actually just wrote uh the first comic for parenthood activate which was my web comic is that like I want to hopefully get progressively better as I keep going so this year I'm considering it my my senior year because it's my fourth year of working full-time in comics and I don't know like I just feel just way more confident as a storyteller and I can just I can

[01:00:54] just see the difference like it doesn't take me um not like hung up on silly stuff like dialogue which isn't silly but it used to take me a while to kind of like work through dialogue um you know I'm okay with the first draft looking horrendous even though I've been hearing back from my editors they're not nearly as bad as I think that they are um and I've been doing a better job at self-editing uh to the point where my editor Jamie Rich uh at Anish and Press was like hey if you keep

[01:01:23] this up I won't have a job I'm like you will have a job Jamie because I can only edit myself this way because of the notes that you've given me in previous work so just know that you know I'm applying and I'm trying to um again like just get better so you're describing yourself as a senior so your senior class ring which infinity stone's going in it oh man ooh I I think it's gonna be uh the reality stone so I can

[01:01:52] just warp some things uh things like a very there's also I feel like yeah like I know and kind of actually been doing that in real life because I'm going from comic stories that are just so different from one another I am hopping in between realities yeah yeah well you're busy busy busy writing have you gotten around to launching the newsletter yet yes so I launched it um yes I launched it

[01:02:22] back in February um the newest newsletter that I just put out was last week on my birthday so I was at Momo con um which was really fun and um was able to reflect and I was like oh so this is why you should have a newsletter like your own personal uh journal in a way um but I like it it's kept me on task and just another deadline but it's a deadline that um is a personal one because I get to work through like you know let folks know what I

[01:02:52] got going on and also give like some deeper insight into just my creative process and all the silly stuff that I'm doing like um watching Beauty in Black on Netflix which again I don't recommend but I do kind of recommend because it's just um it's insane like enough of a train train wreck based upon where you're trying not to recommend it that it's worth it you're hooking me whether you want to or not I'm so sorry but yes if you watch it and you're like

[01:03:22] what the hell I'm so sorry but also uh I just um just wow it makes the boondocks episode that was focused on Tyler Perry even more pronounced I'll put it that way yeah also the Atlanta episode too so if if you enjoy the boondocks talking about Tyler Perry and then also Atlanta then please watch Beauty in Black okay I'm in I'll check it out I'll let you know how it goes so where can people go to sign up for your newsletter

[01:03:51] um you can go to press start the story at Beehive um I think just google that or also just go to uh my Instagram page there is um a link in my bio that'll take you to like all my stuff just press that I have to sign up there uh but yeah Beehive was the choice because unfortunately subsec is yeah run by a not great person yeah we did the same thing we had to do a whole porting process and

[01:04:20] yeah so good good on you for doing that thank you absolutely well before I let you go we always do a shout out to round things out because I like to end on a positive note yeah so this can be someone who did you a solid or something that inspired you recently that you're just grateful for and I'll go first to give you a second to think mine this time last night I actually started watching this documentary about the octopus and it goes through all these different experts may not be the exact

[01:04:50] way to put it but people who are very very into octopus so you have people who are doing research you have Tracy Morgan who shows up who just loves I guess sea creatures I had no idea but he has I think one of the biggest independently owned aquariums on the planet in his house who knew so but I I've loved octopuses but this is for people who really really love octopuses clearly more than I do because it well okay I do have an

[01:05:19] octopus tattoo on my back so maybe I am that person anyway it's really cool and I highly recommend it what you got okay I'm actually gonna plug a book by my late friend Aaron Reese it's called bitch craft it will be out June 18th for mad cave studios if you are looking for something that is different and so celebratory of black queerness and friendship witchery mysticism all

[01:05:48] of these things pick up bitch craft it was pure label labor of love by my best friend and I'm just so happy that it's gonna be out in the world and it could not release at a more better time and also it feels on brand to kind of highlight that but book for this particular podcast so check out bitch craft June 18th get those pre orders in because I think the foc is actually coming up this Monday if I'm not

[01:06:17] mistaken so yeah yeah I'll have to check that out I know there was an advance release that's in the people have their to read stack I have a to read email stack of advanced solicits to go through so I've been looking forward to that it looks fantastic so yeah definitely check that out well Stephanie thanks for hanging out with me on the show today it's been a lot of fun yeah it's been great thank you and anytime you want me back just let me know I will I will I will believe me I'll reach out because you've got some cool stuff coming up so we'll do it

[01:06:47] again well this is Byron O'Neill on behalf of all of us at comic book eddie thanks for tuning in and happy pride everyone see you next time all right bye this is Byron O'Neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book eddie we hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast please rate review subscribe all that good stuff it lets us know how we're doing and more importantly how we can improve thanks for listening