Tom King talks Helen of Wyndhorn

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti. So without further ado, let's get on to the interview. Hey Yeti, what's shaking?

[00:00:19] Yeah, I did see that Mechateau was crown funding on Kickstarter now. I love that book. I was in back room for the single issues myself. That whole creative team is great.

[00:00:26] I love Fernando Pinto's artwork and it reminds me so much of hanging out with my friends at middle school and playing Nintendo, well, minus the giant mutant bubs from outer space swooping in and trying to take over part. Wait, you can make a transformation sound. Who knew?

[00:00:48] Yeah, that power gauntlet is cool. Whatever Derek touches can transform him into an alien and annihilating Mech. Yeah, it's over. Even a hot dog cart too. Too funny. Where can people go to back it? They can head on over to Kickstarter and search for Mechaton in

[00:01:10] E-C-H-A-T-O-N or just check the show notes. I'll make it easy for them. It runs all of February and it's awesome that everything is done and looks like a really quick turnaround for backers. And that exclusive Jason Muir cover is awesome. He's doing Spider-Man stuff now.

[00:01:26] Did you just really say Fuyo? You've got to get off TikTok, man. Hello and welcome to new comic book Eddie's Cryptic Creator Corner. I am one of your hosts, Jimmy Gasparo, and I am very excited for the guest I have tonight because I

[00:01:43] everyone who's listened to this podcast, I've probably mentioned him before because he's I think my favorite comic book writer. So this is gonna be a lot like

[00:01:52] This is gonna be a lot like that Chris Farley sketch where he interviews Paul McCartney and just reminds him of all the cool stuff He's done. But yeah No, but the writer of Mega-Benn, Mr. Miracle, Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow Then more recently

[00:02:12] Animal Pound and the comic book we're here to talk about today Helen of Windhorn which comes out from Dark Horse. It's gonna be March 13th, 2024 You're gonna be able to get it. So as we record this, it's a few weeks away and hey

[00:02:27] Right before my 45th birthday. So you do yourself a favorite Get yourself a present and Go in and pick up Helen of Windhorn because I absolutely loves it art by Bill Cosey We can't wait to talk about it. It's a slope as Clayton Cowes

[00:02:43] But please please welcome to the podcast for the first time Tom King. Tom. Hey One absolute pleasure. Thank you for all the kind things you just said. Thank you for doing this podcast I think you're getting the word out on comics means absolute work

[00:02:58] My comics are weird. I write weird-ass comics and nobody buys them for what they are They buy them because someone recommended them So I literally you're putting food on my kids table and I was trying to think you know when we

[00:03:13] Locked this in and you know, I was Preparing and I try you know I go I read the comic that we're gonna talk about Helen of Windhorn and I go back and look through some other stuff and I I really I as a fan

[00:03:25] I've read a lot of your comics and I was going back and revisiting some favorites And I was trying to remember what what it was like what was the first thing that was like oh, I really like what this guy is saying

[00:03:39] And I think it was probably Omega man. I think was the first one Oh Megan I was not I would not put any money on Omega men if you saying that that was the worst selling comic at both Marvel and DC

[00:03:51] well, I I know that I I loved mr. Miracle I mean I was a huge fan, but I'm like that wasn't the first thing You know because I've recommended that and given that out to so many people and said oh You got to read this. I

[00:04:07] Would give it out the friends is like, you know what the first time parent, you know Like a friend of mine just had a kid and I'm like do you like comics? It doesn't matter here. I'm getting you this mr. Miracle

[00:04:18] But yeah, I think Omega men was actually the first thing and then from there I went on and read vision and read sheriff a bag dad and you know and Most of the stuff since but so yeah, my favorite my favorite Omega men story is

[00:04:32] While I was writing Omega man, I got the Batman from when Scott left and We did sort of this like YouTube kind of announcement thing where a bunch of DC creators got it

[00:04:43] And it was like alive on YouTube and like Jim Jim Lee and Dan did you who was the head of DC Comics time with doing the introductions? And I can't even remember what I said, but I made some joke about Dan some sort of you know

[00:04:55] We would give each other shit as kind of our relationship So I gave him some shit and And Dan being you know classic New York returns to me to give me shit

[00:05:03] And he's like Tom I'm gonna put you on our lease selling book if I hear another fucking word out of you And I was like Dan I'm already on your lease selling book And he gave me this look like we were about to go live with him announcing

[00:05:13] I was getting taken over Batman. He's like what you're on my lease selling book And you're getting my things like I could see the regret in his eyes and someone's like camera go Yes, I Adoro Megman with Barnaby Bagenda at on arts. I

[00:05:32] Love that little book that that that could or at least tried to Yeah, thank you and thank you for picking it up. I appreciate yeah, I I think for me. I just I thought it was

[00:05:45] Complicated it's not not the right word for it, but I thought complex in a way that I don't know I just didn't think other Books with superheroes on the cover had been that I had you know seen in a while

[00:05:58] You know not I mean I we can talk about Classics and look at like watchmen or something like that but like I just hadn't seen anything like recent that was being done right then that was like Omega man and

[00:06:09] Yeah, I guess it was kind of off to the races from there Yeah, although a mega man was very much me sort of you know in the beginning of my career when I was

[00:06:17] You know the first thing you do is you copy people and you kind of find your own voice And there I was very much leaning into sort of copying Alan Moore

[00:06:23] But the running joke what with my wife I was writing it as I would say like who Omega's the Omega men which just makes no sense at all But and I mean that back

[00:06:34] I mean some ways you know that was kind of the beginning of my career because it was canceled after issue three Because of the low sales and then Twitter when Twitter's to could still do wonderful things kind of rebelled against that and

[00:06:45] I was just a baby convoy greater had no gigs and Jim Lee called me I remember I was like taking care of my kids at the park and I was like oh go play with this little slide and because Jim Lee is calling

[00:06:54] Me like oh my god, yeah, and Jim's like I see people like you on Twitter. I guess we'll keep this book going I was like oh my by the way, it's the worst Jimmy impression But but and that sort of made

[00:07:07] Me like a rebel you know like people like oh my god Tom's rebelling against the system But mostly I was just begging to not be canceled And yeah, so it always has a start of everything started with Omega men being uncanceled the wonderful little miracle that happened

[00:07:21] Yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad I'm glad it wasn't glad it wasn't canceled. We got to read it But to turn to Helen of Windhorn. It's a new creator and book with Dark Horse Bill quisevely It's first off I have to say it is absolutely

[00:07:42] Gorgeous, I mean oh my god super girl woman of tomorrow was great this I feel like there's there's certainly similarities you know with Bill quise's work, but I mean it is It's just like the aesthetic of that kind of like 1930s from Texas

[00:07:59] Where it starts. I mean the intricacies of the house There's just so much to get absolutely lost in in this book with The artwork and Matisse Lopez's colors are just I mean it's gorgeous

[00:08:13] And that's paper on pencil. It's not digital. She's actually doing ink and pencil with this thing Um, oh wow. Yeah, I can't I can't be Kylie enough of Bill quise's art on on this entire book. I mean she's been working on it

[00:08:27] You know on an offer about two and a half years now it's been sort of a passion project we've been putting together and I mean Supergirl didn't well much like omega man super girl didn't sell very well

[00:08:40] It's so it's my best selling thing by far now because of the movie Uh, but at the time it wasn't really selling but it felt like it was clicking You know the difference like I was like this is something special. It felt special what we were making

[00:08:52] It it felt like something I was super proud of and I couldn't believe the art I couldn't believe how good she was And when it ended I just said anything you want to do

[00:09:00] You know if you want to do any character at DC I can talk someone into it something if you want to do any indie thing I was like hell you want to go to marvel. We'll find some fantastic for I don't care

[00:09:09] Like let's whatever you want. I will I will write words for your pictures And and she sent me um sort of a vision board of what she wanted and it was sort of for fantasy stuff and people in the 30s and and

[00:09:25] Uh, and she wanted to do an indie thing And I mostly wanted to do a more super girl thing sort of that all combined to become what helen it yeah Yes, I mean the story is helen and uh

[00:09:40] Is a 16 year old girl and her I guess newly hired governess. Um Has to go to texas to drag her back to her grandfather's house and uh you know after Terrible situation with her her father and now she's going to live with her her grandfather in this

[00:10:00] What 137 or 173 room to a state which is it seemingly a Totally different lifestyle than than helen is clearly uh accustomed to um It what happened that I those like a fan fantasy type of story and

[00:10:20] There's like 1930 elements like what were the the influences to then take that and push it, you know In in this direction At the time I was My I mean I could kind of kind of obsessions

[00:10:36] You know where I kind of go down holes and I I started looking at things and and and back and forth At the time I was I was getting obsessed with with like gothic literature and gothic novels And how popular gothic novels were especially in this you know

[00:10:49] I mean obviously they were popular in like the mid 19th century and then they even got more piper serve in the in the pulp novels of Of mid-century america where they're literally if you look them up

[00:11:00] There are hundreds and hundreds of pulp novels that have the same picture Um on them, which is like a pretty girl running away from a gothic mansion was kind of the

[00:11:10] If if people want to know what sort of gothic means like what like weathering heights is kind of the you know Platonic ideal, but the sort of the best way to think about it for my generation is beauty and the beast

[00:11:22] The cartoon from from when we were kids like the idea the idea that there is a A usually a female character who's taken to a house that is very strange to her and she's trapped there for whatever reason

[00:11:35] And the house starts to reveal mysteries to it and part of the mystery is who owns the house And then there's usually a sort of romantic element between the owner of the house and the person as she sort of discovers

[00:11:44] The mystery the beauty and the beast is a perfect example of that genre um And so that was a that was a bizarre genre that I was getting interested in and I reread weathering heights and I was like man I'm into this

[00:11:55] and at the same time I was also becoming obsessed with conan comics and uh I went back. I was reading like, you know the regional roy thomas

[00:12:07] Windsor smith comics and then the john busama stuff and I was loving it and I was like, where is this coming from? and And so then I started reading, you know the original conan and then I started reading how conan got created about the creator

[00:12:20] And and people don't know this the creator of conan was like You know, he was a pulp novelist. He just he wrote whatever he possibly could he was not famous in his time Conan was a popular story. It wasn't like super

[00:12:30] It wasn't like it is today where it was almost a genre defining thing You know conan is almost half of Fantasy the other half being sort of lord of the rings. It's kind of those two things collide create where our modern fantasy

[00:12:40] Universes right. Yeah, robert howler was just like Writing whatever he could to get paid for like weird tales or some magazine that had that name on it, right? Yeah, they wanted him to write a western

[00:12:50] He's writing a western if they want him to write this but he just he invented a whole genre in doing that desperation Which I love but then when he was about 30 years old and there's a whole movie about this

[00:13:00] Very strange no one can explain it. He was very close to his mother as mother died in her death bed After she passed away, he walked to his car opened the glove compartment got a gun shot himself in the head And that's how he died

[00:13:13] And no one kind of understands sort of how this modern creative genius why sort of ended that way And so I combined all three of those elements. I just took about the sort of the the gothic novel

[00:13:25] The origin story of this kind of suicide novelist pulp fiction novels and in the conan stories themselves And that became hell in a wind horn, which is a story about um A young woman who's 16 her father is a pulp novelist a co a it was um

[00:13:41] Bright stories that are conan like and he kills himself and she doesn't know why And her grandfather comes to sort of take her away And she's taken against to a big house with lots of mysteries in it

[00:13:52] And what she eventually discovers is is there's a connection between her grandfather's house and the actual conan stories and the fantasy Um, that is a very long pitch for this wonderful little book

[00:14:04] But I have a much shorter pitch that I that I think is much more important than the thing I want most people to remember if you like supergirl if that's like your thing

[00:14:15] um, and I love that book and and it become more and more special to me every year This is more of that. It's very along the themes if you got to the end of supergirl and you're like

[00:14:25] I want more this is by the writer the artist the colorist even the letter of supergirl Um, it's told in a very similar fashion. It's a it's about a very similar story

[00:14:37] It's I'm the kind of guy when I read a great book and I want to get the next book and it's not there I get pissed and so this was sunk from the beginning envisioned as if you got to the end of supergirl

[00:14:46] And you were like man, that's awesome. I want to have that experience again I want to give you so it's just super girl plus more is the better pitch than the long

[00:14:54] artistic artsy farcey should I just said no, I like both I like both pitches and it's uh, but The what you just something you just said about, you know how the story is told

[00:15:04] that's kind of what I wanted to ask you about because like I said, I read a couple of things and recently and caught up on some stuff and in term, you know, I was thinking of like the winning card and um

[00:15:20] This Helen of Windhorn and animal pound like some of the stuff you've been writing recently Um, there was one other that just escaped me that I just read but um I always like the idea when I get into something and I feel like it's maybe an unreliable

[00:15:36] narrator and the story is being told of from like the governess's perspective from lilyf and um, I find it very interesting like that setup in terms of her being there in the beginning and it's like a little bit of a flashback

[00:15:51] And um, I don't know how reliable yet lilyf is in terms of telling this story. Um You know, how did you kind of settle on that type of person rather than just telling it like, you know

[00:16:03] Direct through Helen or some other means was because I noticed in some of your work That you've kind of been doing that recently telling the story from dippering per perspectives

[00:16:12] Um, which I feel like you know something like batman maybe didn't do and that could be tough to do except You know, maybe certain issues when you do a longer run, but

[00:16:21] I just noticed it in some of your work and I was wondering if there was something there if it's just me saying thing No, no, you're definitely seeing you're definitely seeing sort of me trying to evolve or at least trying to find different ways to present convulques. Um

[00:16:35] Yeah, I mean when I was on batman I had kind of a rule where I was like no captions no batman talking for himself And I came into comics at a time when captions is sort of overtaken comics um

[00:16:47] Then I don't mean to insult any of the writers that mean that they're fantastic writers But I was just reading too many comics where It was just they were just useless captions all over the page

[00:16:57] They were just the internal monologue and they would just say what was they would literally tell you what you were looking at But not in an interesting way. It was very boring

[00:17:05] And so when I got to batman, I was like, you know, you have a band into you as a writer show Don't tell show don't tell and I was like, I'm not gonna tell I'm gonna show I'm gonna I'm gonna let my artist lead the way on this

[00:17:16] I was I was stealing this from um an essay I read by jms When he was on this his uh supreme book his squadron supreme book what he did with that narration

[00:17:24] He's like that that sort of freed him to be a better comic writer because he wasn't relying on the narration He was relying on The pictures and that made him think picture first Um, so I'm like in my 85 issues or whatever of batman

[00:17:37] You don't go inside batman's head. Everything has to be presented sort of on the page And I think that's good advice for young writers I think right young writers can very much lean into the the narration and forget to do the visual um

[00:17:48] I used I use captions on vision one of my very first things in it, but um Similar to this where I was told from a sort of point of view And as I've sort of tried to evolve and you know, the older I get her right

[00:18:00] No, I'm changing or looking back now I'm adding captions back into my work in a lot of ways But I'm still not trying to fall in the trap of making them useless or or terrible Captions normally that their function in a comic is to slow the reader down

[00:18:15] Um, you know like you know classic dark net returns captions, which are kind of like these You know you see batman punching somebody and frank adds his nose split here So rather than just seeing the punch you you read the thing

[00:18:27] And so it lets it leaves you with the picture for a few moments And I like my comics to read slower than I used to I like to slow the reader down a little more than I used to

[00:18:36] I used to be like my comics I used to call them like one shit comics You could read a tomkin comic on the toilet while I took a shit You were fucking done

[00:18:43] Now I'm like I want two shit comics. I want you to have to put it down You gotta forget it was there your wife or your husband yells at you why the fucking comic on the floor?

[00:18:51] I'm in the middle of it and you pick it up the next time. So there there are two shit comics Okay, um, but but in in that quest. I don't want to get boring with the narration

[00:19:01] So I always try to find something to challenge me and to make me interested in it. So um Yeah, I mean this is I mean this is a classic they teach you in every literature class like, you know It's called like third person observations of people

[00:19:15] But you know, it's used Sherlock Holmes most famously uses this narrative narrative technique where Watson tells the story even Sure, even though Sherlock's the main character You know in high school, you probably were fucking great Gatsby and nick tells the story instead of that sure

[00:19:29] So I had used that in supergirl where I had Ruthie tell the story instead of super girl herself and Ruthie had this such This wonderful the weird voice where she was talking in this kind of pseudo western way But she was a space alien

[00:19:41] So she was like these weird sentences that had like hooms and looped upon themselves and And she would use these sort of three penny words all the time And I had so much fun doing this and like I said from the beginning

[00:19:51] The idea was not to like do a record scratch and do something completely different like mitch and I went from War comic to space comic. I wanted to do something that was very much in the genre super girls like I'm going to use that same technique

[00:20:04] I'm going to use the third person I'm going to use that observational narrator, but instead of it being a young western girl and make it a stuffy British marm

[00:20:13] Which was and weathering heights one of the narrators is a stuffy British marm. So it's kind of influenced by the Bronte sisters Um, and yeah, that's where I started and as you'll see as you observed it's You'll see the narration becomes um just like you said sort of

[00:20:29] She's telling an impossible story what what what she's saying cannot have happened at the real world There's there's magic in this story, but her her world is very real Um, so whether she's lying or not and what that means is a theme of this of the story

[00:20:44] And you get more and more distance and you get farther along So the whole thing is about Helen. It's about her story, but it's also about stories itself Like all the fucking pretentious indie books that ever been written in comic

[00:20:54] At least I put some of that shit in Oh, well, that's good. I mean I like that pretentious shit sometimes What do you get a fucking do I was raised on sand man, and I loved it. So there I yeah

[00:21:05] I love sand man too. No no complaints. It's uh, it's it's fantastic. Um What you when you're doing the script like this with like, you know as you get into this issue and I um

[00:21:18] Like like halfway in and Helen's like wandering around the house like how descriptive do you get to bilkis bilkis In terms of like, you know the bedrooms and what everything looks like is that so much left up to what like

[00:21:33] Like bilkis wants to do in terms of creating those rooms or do you have a picture in your head when you're putting it together? I I very little she I'm leaning on her very heavily. She's like not just like a partner in this

[00:21:47] She's the designer of this whole thing. Um, if you've ever read my scripts, you can read them in the vision hardcover or the Mr. Miracle hardcover, but they're they're specific, but they're bare, you know, it's Um

[00:22:00] Man sits on a toilet man picks up a comic book man reads it. I don't tell you what pictures are in the room What the toilet looks like what the man's wearing

[00:22:07] Um, I have well, I can't do a lot of things in in life. Like I'm bad at like basketball or running um though, uh, uh driving i'm i'm awful at

[00:22:20] Uh, if I when I was in the cia. It was a terrible shot. I was just terrible with the gun uh, but I have one magic power and that I can see

[00:22:30] When I write a script if I know the artist I can see what the pages will look like and I kind of know The minimum I need to get them to the place where they're going to draw what it's going to look like and 90%

[00:22:41] I'm correct and and bill because I've been you know, I just done super girl together I kind of I kind of could see exactly what she was going to do and then she did it

[00:22:48] But then I mean went even farther, you know, like tripled the amount of lines. I thought she put in it Um So yeah, yeah, it's bare minimum. She's she's she's holding most of it

[00:22:57] It's like I mean like that that that there's a huge splash of the huge epic mansion And I think it literally said huge splash of huge epic mansion was probably the panel description

[00:23:08] And she took it from there. I I you may not notice maybe I am the worst artist in the world I cannot draw I can't draw a stick figure. I can't draw a straight line can draw a circle

[00:23:18] Uh, so I would never tell an artist. I want you to draw in the background Uh, something that looks like this or something because it could be really hard and I would have no idea I don't know the difference between that thing. So, uh, I yeah

[00:23:31] If it's if it's not vital to the story, it's up to them Is my kind of yeah That splash is gorgeous by the way like the house is amazing and I love how it's kind of like You know set back and there's just all that greenery the little

[00:23:46] freak or You know river in the front. It's it's just yeah, it just sets the scene in terms of what This place is um and like this world that you're entering. It's gorgeous

[00:23:57] This is I have it up on my computers is literally what I put page nine splash wind horn house and all its gothic lorry This is the heart of the series. It's a huge mansion that seems like a normal intricate new england mansion

[00:24:07] But there's a touch of fantasy castles to the whole thing That's it. That's what she got. That's that's she she created that page Yeah, and I I sent her some reps of like some houses

[00:24:21] Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely incredible. Uh, no, I was gonna I mean this is a podcast It's not a visual medium, but yeah I have I have a comic that you drew on the cover and um, oh god. I'm sorry. I apologize

[00:24:34] Well, I'll shoot you don't look at all I'll describe it to you and I'll try not to use too many swear words And I will use way too many swear words Oh, this is horrible anticipation

[00:24:44] For people who know he's left the panel and I'm here by myself. Sorry just for fun I didn't mean to go away. No, it's cool Byron, you'll have to edit that blank space out

[00:24:55] No, I fucking killed it. I had a great model. Did you just take it over and I missed all of it It was the my most brilliant observations on writing comics you ever Uh, and I missed it. I fucking missed it was I gave away the key

[00:25:08] I was like if you write words without the letter i then they Yeah, let's say just no, this is but this is one of my favorites one of my favorite comics So I had you and lee week sign it Oh

[00:25:22] The batman elmer oh, I messed up a look he put lee put a little fun on there not I elmer fun lee put a big silhouette of batman in the background of elm of fun going by

[00:25:38] Yeah, I like to draw a stupid little face on the silhouette just his thought just to make lee back Oh lee lee, you know Please near you. He's a he's another mid-atlantic guy like us. He doesn't look too far from you

[00:25:49] Oh good. Yeah, I like that. Um, I like this area. So I'm I'm happy to hear more folks are around I got three mid-atlantic kids man. They're chill. I like them

[00:26:00] I like it's a good vibe because there's no vibe to be had no we don't have we have no identity No Now you'll think I feel like where i'm from like delco for people that know this area

[00:26:11] Delco has a little bit of a reputation, but mostly it's now just from like Tina Fey and They shot that kate winslet mayor of The america's mayor of east town they shot that in marcus. Sok were like right near where I grew up. So that was

[00:26:28] You know, that was about it. That's all we got. That's all I congratulations Well, I live in dc and yeah my kids I have no idea what they're gonna be when they grow up. I don't know what the attitude of a dc person is

[00:26:40] Oh, I my my oldest who's I have two kids my oldest who's 11 is Uh loves to draw loves art at 11 now her dream is to be an animator To who knows my six-year-old well done, you know, I've told them they can be anything they want except a lawyer

[00:26:59] My mother was a lawyer and she told me I could I could be only a lawyer That's what she that's yeah, so if she went the exact opposite direction So and see what happened to me. So you'll get a bunch of lawyers out of you

[00:27:11] Yeah, I my parents didn't say I had I mean my dad's an hvac mechanic and my mom's like a billing person at a Dermatology practice and they they they they didn't say, you know, they said we could do whatever

[00:27:23] But um, yeah, I've told my kids just please don't please don't practice law. It's just so stressful It's just so stressful. Well, I guess everything is when it comes right down to it, you know

[00:27:34] I'm married to an attorney. I live that stress every day. I understand. It's always like Something's on fire. Something's always on fire. Yeah, that's I just you know, I don't know what anybody else's job is like I mean, I've been an attorney for 18 years now and uh

[00:27:50] But you know, just a job where there's just so many, you know deadlines I guess it's a bit like a writer or something else, but no, it's nothing like I mean, let me say from my experience with my wife because because I

[00:28:04] I mean, I Chris rock has that great line, right? Like if you Are you happy when you get off to work or you piss because you you need more to do I'm pissed when I have to stop working

[00:28:13] My wife is never pissed when she stops working. Oh no No, no, I'm I'm I'm always happy when the day ends and I because it's just it just you know, we're a very we're a small practice But we're we're very busy All right, let's take a quick break

[00:28:30] What in the sand hill is happening right now? What is that? Yeah, what is that? You like bars? Yeah, what is that? Oh, you like band of bars. It's not my fault you mumbled That makes sense. They're dropping some great new series right now

[00:28:49] There's that one about a heavy metal guitarist in the 1970s with monsters working class wizards You know how we love monsters around here and my friend Dakota Brown He's working on a project

[00:29:01] Grandma Tillie's hell tech mech with Lane Lloyd. I saw the preview for that. That is crazy Jimmy even contributed to their anthology from the static and had Matt sumo on the podcast to talk about his project the bardic verses, which

[00:29:14] Makes a lot of sense that the project landed there Yeah, yeah, you are Where can you find them? You need to get out more they were in previews or you can visit their website bandabars.com for all the latest Can we turn the music off now?

[00:29:31] Thank you. No more surprises minstrels or anything like that or I'll rent you out to the ren fair as a children's ride Let's get back to the show

[00:29:40] Well, I just wanted to ask you and I know I brought it up earlier, but uh, your novel a once crowded sky Oh, yeah, I know I know you wrote. I'm sorry in it when I had to sign it and bought them more

[00:29:51] But is that I mean is that a bit is that a bit or is that really how you feel about it? No, no, I Well when I look at that book I look at me learning how to write it's like I can see me. I'm trying this technique

[00:30:03] I'm trying that technique. It's all sorts of experimental Um, I'm using I mean that book has pictures as complex scripts in it. It has um, it's over like sometimes the prose is really purply sometimes really stripped down

[00:30:16] Uh, it's just me like trying every just throwing all the spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks So some of the spaghetti I'm like, holy shit that stuck really well And some of them like oh man that fell right to the floor

[00:30:27] So so there are pages I love and pages. I don't That's That that's kind of how I feel feel about the whole I mean, I love getting the Concept. Oh my it was that was a good concept

[00:30:40] Like I wish I had executed a little better. I thought the actual the concept Well, I mean I really liked it and it was I'd gotten it a while ago And it was on my to be read pile and I was like, I gotta read this

[00:30:54] But I had an interesting experience where I had gotten through like half of danger street And then I read the whole novel in like two or three days I was and then I read the second half of danger street

[00:31:08] And it was just an odd just thinking about you know something you had done And when was that published in like 2012 2013? And danger street, you know 10 years later. I just I had a very odd

[00:31:20] As a tom kink fan experience like thinking about both a once crowded sky and then danger street You know and I enjoyed both of them for different reasons, but I was you know kind of looking at

[00:31:32] You know that that arc that line and any connective tissue between the two Um, yeah, I mean that book was written before I had kids and now I've got a kid the ninth grade That's I mean

[00:31:43] That's I'm a totally different human being than when I wrote when I wrote that book But I'm still obsessed with the same things and I still Do the same sort of little literary tricks nobody notices like that book?

[00:31:52] It starts with the word a man and ends with the word gods Like it has shit like that that nobody fucking cares about that I did And uh, and it's doing that dance. I love which is You know trying to combine this high literary whatever with sort of

[00:32:08] You know this low What for lack of a better word low are you know combining those two things to make them dance and sing That's still what I love to do. So And I haven't changed on on some levels

[00:32:22] Hopefully I've gotten a little better on some of them Is there ever a character like that you think of from like a once crowded sky if you ever going to revisit and say

[00:32:29] I could do something with this like I could take pen ultimate or I could take soldier or stale Or strength, I mean and and do something with them like ever revisited or like is that now I did that

[00:32:40] That was the thing I did and that's where that is Absolutely. I am notoriously bad at naming characters. I'm terrible at it like naming new care and launching new characters Until trinity which is kind of hitting a little bit

[00:32:53] But I mean that's kind of what's cheating because wonder woman's daughter You know like who's going to ignore that like no one no one cares about Gotham girl I kind of like big vision kind of survived, but like For people to know it's the book is about um

[00:33:07] A sidekick to the soup to a superman character and I love what I named this I named the superman character ultimate and then I named the psychic pen ultimate, which I thought was so which I still think is I still think is pen ultimate people

[00:33:18] Penalty means second best and so like he has to live his whole life in the guy's shadow and even his superhero name means second best Um, so yeah, I and then soldier of he was soldier of freedom

[00:33:30] So instead of soldier of fortune you soldier of freedom, which I think is a cool title And yeah, no, I I love those characters. I like their origin stories like soldier There's an awesome origin story where he fought in every he's like captain America

[00:33:41] But instead of fighting a one war and then getting frozen towards today He fought every war and just got frozen between the wars So he just lived like 18 years of all of America's wars until he kind of got woken up

[00:33:52] Um, so he's like told he just you know, he just rolled over it like okay. Korea's done Blink vietnam starts blink during the gulf. Yeah, so yeah Um So yeah, I I I love the origins and I love the character names and I'd like to go back again

[00:34:07] I the concept people don't know the concept the concept super cool. I'm fucking complimenting myself, but uh Who came up with that? Oh you did You look back like oh that was a shitty. I mean there's there's some stupid shit in there and I've I've thought of

[00:34:21] It is a cool concept They have to steep take everybody's powers in order to save the universe and now everybody but penultimate Don't have powers anymore and they essentially are trying to figure out how do they live? How do they live now and then the story?

[00:34:39] You know takes off from there and it's told in a wonderful fashion like it's a comic book crossover event Like the chapters, I guess you would call them are essentially like You know Soldier of freedom number 367 So you get all those different perspectives

[00:34:59] Yeah, I think it's great. I love thanks. I appreciate yeah No, I like I saw like things about it. Yeah, that's I like I mean, obviously it's a theme I've been playing with but the idea of

[00:35:09] A whole society of people who used to be great and now they're not and how do they live their lives And what happens next I think is I don't know that's it's it's a cool metaphor for something Mm-hmm. Yeah um, I wanted to ask and you know

[00:35:25] With the Helen of Windhorn and you know Animal Pound Penguin Peng was great by the way. That's another one where the captions At least issue one, you know kind of show different perspectives everyone's telling kind of like

[00:35:39] They're they're different story and their interactions with Oswald, which I really like I like that as well But um, yeah, we just a unique in that book where everybody Everybody can tell the story a wager can tell the story Batman can tell the story

[00:35:51] A fucking dog tell the story but penguin can't tell the story. So it's everyone's perspective on the story except Kabul Yeah, yeah, so um, you're hitting. Yeah, so I like again just trying to trying to find someone to make those narration chapters

[00:36:05] So, I mean all of these things I assume They all seem to be coming out like right now But like with Helen of Windhorn that was done like two years ago Um, so are you still are there other things coming that you're working on?

[00:36:20] Are you focusing more on? You know like Hollywood type stuff like movie scripts or what's um, what's kind of on the horizon that you can talk about Yeah, I mean during during the pandemic I got way far ahead now started writing books all together

[00:36:34] Which was making me wait for like Danger Street was written, you know years and years ago And I wrote all 12 issues before horror had started drawing issue one. I finished issue 12 Um And that's that's true for human target. That's true for super girl roar shock Gotham year one

[00:36:55] Uh Well, it's a little bit true strange adventure. So so I got way ahead So a lot of things are coming out that I've written a long time ago And that's true for Helen of Windhorn, which I wrote right after super girl

[00:37:05] So when I say it's like the writer of super girl Even if you're like man, tom, you knew how to write when you wrote super girl was sensing you fucking forgot

[00:37:11] It's it's the old tom who wrote this one. I wrote this a while back and I wrote it I wrote it's the straight um So that's been done for a while then uh, yeah About a year ago. Holly would hit me hard

[00:37:25] And I got off that schedule and kind of got skitted off of it Um, and just yeah, and I'm doing a ton of hollywood stuff all the time now Uh, so I'm trying to keep ahead of my deadlines

[00:37:36] It's more of a scramble like it was when I was on batman I'm working on penguin and working on wonder woman Uh, and and other like 62 other books. I'm always I think I just I'm counting a day. It's like between

[00:37:49] You know trying to promote the last trade and trying to pitch the next book I think it was like some like 13 books. I'm working on it. I'm like it was in the dump It was crazy, but it was a lot

[00:37:59] I've read interviews with you before and you know, um Your earlier days as a comic book writer and you know with your kids when they were younger Like now that you know, you have three kids now that they've gotten older has your

[00:38:14] schedule like changed like when how do you Like where do you still find the time to balance all those things and uh, you know now balance hollywood things and um And I guess how long does it take you to like write an issue? I'm kind of curious

[00:38:30] I do an issue a week. Um, I I'm addicted to writing like some people are addicted to alcohol And if I get if I get to friday and I have not turned in a script. I feel itchy

[00:38:42] I feel yucky. I feel like I don't know. I like I cheated on a diet, you know, like that kind of feeling um Where you just you worked all week to work hard and you just had a like a bowl of full of ice cream

[00:38:53] You're like, why the fuck yeah, so I I I have to turn in a script on friday night or I just know I'll feel terrible Um, yeah, I start on monday and go through friday every single week. Oh, wow

[00:39:04] Now that that schedule is kind of messed up because the hollywood hollywood doesn't work on of course finishing issues like that So sometimes like just this week i'm finishing up, you know, I'll start half an issue and then hollywood will come in and be like

[00:39:15] tom we need this whatever This week and it's only had to just stop my old schedule and start doing hollywood crap. So um, it's not as regular as it used to be

[00:39:26] Um, but yeah, yeah, generally takes me about a week to write a script. I write monday through thursday whatever i'm finishing It's finished thursday. I don't care if I have to stay up till three in the morning

[00:39:35] Like the last period on page 24 will be done and then fridays are for editing I had to i spent all day on friday editing and then it just turned into that night And that's that's that's that's how it works now. Um, um probably what

[00:39:50] Changes my kids got no let me covet hit that changed everything obviously for everyone Um, but that's when I sort of solidified my schedule of a week per issue Um

[00:40:00] And got more disciplines. Um, and yeah, I'm when kids are young you have lots of challenges. I'm sure you know with young kids Uh, and then because you're changing diapers and this and that and the kids get older

[00:40:12] You have different sort of things that suck your time, you know, you have to go to parent teacher conferences You have to you know to go to soccer games and Uh, you have to help them or with their homework

[00:40:22] Uh, or help them, you know just remember to do their homework whatever So yeah, I still have three kids. They're all at home and I have my dog He's takes as much time for me as my kids do probably more

[00:40:34] It's it's a busy it's a busy fucking day and schedule Yeah, it's it sounds like it I I I try to maintain like I you know if I wanted to write something I'm just like I have the worst time trying to be disciplined about it

[00:40:50] Like I don't know how folks work Like who don't do it full time and like have a full-time job and then like write at night or like right on the weekends Like I don't know how Folks like manage that and uh work that schedule

[00:41:04] It's just it's one of the reasons I like to do this and talk about comics and get people into the comic shops and get people Buying comics because they just I don't know. Yeah, it's just because maybe I'm so impressed by it

[00:41:14] Oh, well, I mean that I mean once crowd sky was written on this crazy schedule. I came up with Um, you know, I was in CIA. I decided to take a year off to become a writer, which is a stupid thing to do us 30 years old and

[00:41:26] um, but I you know, I couldn't I couldn't just do that. We just had our kids So my deal I made with with my wife was like we don't have to get daycare. I'll take care of the kid and we'll have that money um

[00:41:39] So I took care of the kid during the day and there was Anyone was taking care of young kids and my daughter was born right after my kids are really close together

[00:41:47] So there's just there wasn't time to write during the day. So what I decided was I write between midnight and three every night those three hours Um And then I would wake up, you know, my wife would take the kids and she went to work

[00:41:59] So I I'd had I wake up around eight so I get four or five hours of sleep And and and that was you know five days I would just You know put the kids to sleep work out it'd be midnight I'd go upstairs and be like all right

[00:42:12] I'm right. I'm writing until three in the morning and that was that's how I wrote my first novel midnight to three I was so good and now you would sleep when the kids sleep when they took a nap you just pass out

[00:42:22] That doesn't work once they hit like three and they're not napping anymore. You're like, please nap. You're like, please I need these hours That's like the advice I always give somebody when they're a new parent. They're like, what advice do you have? I'm like nap when they nap

[00:42:35] Nap when they nap rule number one nap when they nap That is rule Oh, well, tom. I don't want to take up any more of your time. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast

[00:42:47] Everybody listeners hell in a wind horn dark horse comics tom and bill was eevely March 13th, 2024 Go out and get it. I loved it fantasy And um, yeah, it's it's just phenomenal. I really like the 1930s like aesthetic reminds me of

[00:43:05] You know, I love that kind of uh road to perdition the sting Oh brother, where are they? I just like the look of something set in the 30s. I think it's fantastic. So I love living in that era

[00:43:14] It's you know, if if I go to relax i'm watching old, you know, tcm movies It's where I kind of go to just so that that was my rule I was like you can't because I was like how do they say fuck back then?

[00:43:24] You know, I was like, no, just don't say anything that wouldn't be in a movie. So I I try to keep okay. Yeah, I love that era it's it's um and I love that like sort of you know that

[00:43:34] Like that like post-depression when you're just like you gotta do what you gotta do to get by You know and that idea of sort of meri American improvisation comic books themselves are sort of born out of that like

[00:43:44] Gotta do what you gotta do to survive was how complex. Oh shit. You're gonna pay me to do this little Art, I'll do it. Just I gotta feed my family. But yeah, I love I love that. So yeah

[00:43:54] Um, so I think everyone should get it pick it up. It's really fantastic and um again, just This has been great for me because uh I I'm a huge fan of your work and I know I've said that already and I I think I've read almost

[00:44:09] Not everything but if we've read my fucking novel you've gone all the way I I even read uh, it's full of demons from time warp. So I get extra credit points Oh, that's the first thing I ever

[00:44:21] Wait, that's actually good that one. I'm not gonna apologize for tom fowler on our That's good. I like that one um, and look I I Bet you a few times, you know at baltimore comic con

[00:44:34] I think he came to philly once I think you were at fat jacks comic crypt, but um, you're always so You know gracious, uh with your fans and um This past year. I had given you because I had a short Story published in an anthology

[00:44:50] Called from the static from band of bards and I gave it to you and you were very gracious. Yeah, that was me Well That was me, um, but you were very you're not a very bright man. So I'm putting two together

[00:45:03] It's fine. You were very you were very kind about it and I felt a little silly doing it But then I had read an interview where you gave a copy of your book to scott's nighter

[00:45:10] I gave a copy to scott. We had two hours in line to meet that motherfucker. I'm sure you threw in the trash But it's very nice. Yeah. No, I I

[00:45:19] I did so can I tell you one last stupid story about that and then we can go about being a struggling writer so, um I used to do that. I used to go to comic cons so many comic cons to

[00:45:31] Both sell my book at my booth, you know, like trying to get people into a new car We're like, hey, how can I get you to read this novel? And I would also go and wait in line for people I like

[00:45:40] Um and go to their booth. I had a rule. I'd always buy something from the booth I'd buy a poster or whatever and then I would give them a free copy of my book Um

[00:45:49] And I did this they were like preview copies I would go around and there was a compa creator there Um, I don't know what the word is but Not not someone active today someone who would who had who'd done some legendary stuff

[00:46:01] And I gave them a copy of my book and I bought something from their table And I said if you know, I just I just want you to have this and you know, my number's in it Just like everyone does which I think is an awesome

[00:46:11] And um, I go home and I get like someone tells me oh your first review ever is up on Goodreads I was like, oh my god. I'm I'm cia

[00:46:19] I've never no one has ever read my book and written a review of it. It's the first time anyone has read my and I'm like I was incredibly excited and now and I went to look and it was it was this

[00:46:30] Legendary compa creator and and they fucked and it was the first Goodreads review and they fucking trashed it I was like, I gave you that book for free. I bought something from your booth. I'm not saying you gotta love it I'm not saying you gotta read it

[00:46:46] But you don't gotta go on the internet and fucking talk shit about it like that just keep your mouth shut or tell your Tell your wife. Tell your mother. I don't care. You don't have to tell the world Oh Anyway, this one

[00:46:59] That was the start of my career my first year now well, that's awesome, and I'm sorry that happened to you and um If you if you ever happened to read the story that I wrote in that anthology

[00:47:12] You do not have to go on the internet and say anything about it How does um So we'll put again. Thank you very much and I'll probably run into you if you're at baltimore comic con again

[00:47:25] Absolutely, I can't wait to shout out to baltimore and anytime you want to come back. Please You know talk about comics or Turner classic movies, uh, whatever it is. Uh, really appreciate your time now listeners Uh, go get hell on a wind horn. It's absolutely fantastic and um,

[00:47:44] You know, especially if you like super girl Uh, which is is phenomenal and again my own personal plug for my favorite is Mr. Miracle, which I I just think is just one of the best things I've ever read and I

[00:47:58] Recommended to everybody it has a very special place in my heart And it is what made me want to take take a shot at 40 years old and trying to write The comic script and you know, I've had I've had like

[00:48:11] Four or five like just short little things published that I eke out on the on the weekends in between work Working hard. I thought you were afraid here. You are trying to take my job for me now. I know I see where this is going

[00:48:22] Not not at all, but it's just I don't know I know congratulations man. That's the best thing You get to a point sometimes and you have your job Like I said, I've been an attorney for 18 years and you just want you know something else and I just uh

[00:48:34] Just for me and maybe so my kids can see that I do something else and um Yeah, so uh a lot of that I I just um was uh Very encouraged by you know, you're writing and it made me want to try my hand at something

[00:48:51] So I'm just a big fan and thank you and all the listeners have probably turned off by now, but um, I really appreciate it All right for comic book yeti. I'm one of your hosts jimmy gasparo and uh, we've been An evening with tom king

[00:49:07] So get hell into windhorn march 13th 2024 and um, you know once you get it come on Find me on tick tock or twitter wherever I am and let me know how much you liked it because I know you will All right. Thanks for listening. Oh

[00:49:21] Shout out to my brother bobby the cryptic creator corners number one most dedicated fan He goes with me to baltimore comic con He listens to all my episodes and he was very excited that I was getting to talk to you tonight

[00:49:30] So thanks bobby for listening. Thanks bobby. I appreciate everybody else. I'll see you next time This is biron o'neill one of your hosts of the cryptic creator corner brought to you by comic book yeti We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast

[00:49:45] Please rate review subscribe all that good stuff It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly how we can improve Thanks for listening If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics kate

[00:50:03] Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts