Pornsak Pichetshote and Terry Dodson talk The Horizon Experiment: The Manchurian

[00:00:00] Your ears do not deceive you. You've just entered the Cryptid Creator Corner brought to you by your friends at Comic Book Yeti.

[00:00:07] So without further ado, let's get on to the interview.

[00:00:11] Y'all Jimmy the Chaos Goblin strikes again. I should have known better than to mention that was working on my DC

[00:00:18] Universe meets Ravenloft hybrid D&D campaign on social media. My bad

[00:00:22] He goes and tags a bunch of comics creators

[00:00:24] We know and now I have to get it in gear and whip this campaign into shape so we could start playing

[00:00:29] Another friend chimes in are you gonna make maps?

[00:00:32] It's fair to say it's been a while since I put something together. So I guess question mark

[00:00:37] It was then that I discovered Arkham Forge

[00:00:40] If you don't know who Arkham Forge is they have everything you need to make your TT RPG more fun and immersive

[00:00:46] Allowing you to build play and export animated maps including in-person fog of war capability

[00:00:52] But let your players interact with maps as the adventure unfolds while you the DM get the full picture

[00:00:59] Now I'm set to easily build high res animated maps saving myself precious time and significantly adding nuance to our campaign

[00:01:06] That's a win every day in my book. Check them out at arkham forge.com and use the discount code yeti 5

[00:01:13] To get $5 off. I'll drop a link in the show notes for you and big thanks to Arkham Forge for partnering with our show

[00:01:19] I think I'm gonna make Jimmy play a Goblin warlock just to get even

[00:01:24] Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode of the cryptic creator corner

[00:01:27] I'm Byron O'Neill your host for today's comics creator chat

[00:01:30] I'm always excited about getting into how comics with their creators and the projects they've got going on

[00:01:35] But today I'm a static not only do I get returning guest porn sack

[00:01:38] Pichet show on the show with me who is one of the nicest people in the medium

[00:01:42] But it's a double treat to get to introduce Terry Dodson on the show for the first time as well

[00:01:46] They have an amazing project dropping soon called the horizon experiment the Manchurian with image comics

[00:01:51] This will be the opening salvo of a series of five one-shot projects designed as something akin to a TV pilot each

[00:01:58] Features original protagonists from marginalized backgrounds set in a popular genre and inspired by pop culture icons

[00:02:05] Orange sack is co-editing series with industry veteran Will Dennis and the plan is to host all them on the show if

[00:02:12] calendars and lives cooperate over the next five months before they're released to give you a rounded flavor profile of all the cool

[00:02:18] Excentricity the horizon experiment has to offer so porn sack and Terry. Thanks for coming out today. You both doing well everybody doing well

[00:02:26] Yeah, great

[00:02:27] Awesome. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Yeah, glad to have you on well porn sack

[00:02:32] At least you have decent lighting this time

[00:02:34] You're right all though although that might be topically appropriate to introduce a spy book, right?

[00:02:41] Yeah, yeah, I guess so I guess so yeah, no

[00:02:44] That's right. I forgot the last time we talked it was just like I had like one lamp that could like illuminate

[00:02:49] I was in a hotel room. I think that one lamp that could eliminate the whole the whole thing

[00:02:52] But yeah, no now I'm decently lit

[00:02:54] I have a

[00:02:57] Light source or two one one set, but yeah, but thanks for having us on I really appreciate it

[00:03:01] Yeah, of course

[00:03:02] Well, I want to delve a bit into what the horizon experiment is all about and and where it came from

[00:03:07] As I just mentioned intro

[00:03:08] We have five one shot projects and five months starting with the Manchurian which is a Chinese James Bond take

[00:03:14] Then we have the sacred dam a Muslim John Constantine story boondogs follows a family of werewolves with East African descent

[00:03:21] And it's someone with lupus. This is especially interesting to me because hey, it's right there in the Latin name

[00:03:27] then mother fucking monsters an evil dead for black nerds and finally finders keepers are reversed Indiana Jones tale now

[00:03:34] That the uninitiated at least have an inkling of what to expect

[00:03:37] You know for tech. What was the germ of this concept big picture?

[00:03:42] well, you know a couple years ago I did a book called the good Asian and

[00:03:46] You know it did well for me

[00:03:47] It won some awards one eyes are in a Harvey it sold well

[00:03:51] And it got made a got a lot of noise online

[00:03:54] And the thing that I would hear over and over again was that and for anyone who doesn't know the good Asian

[00:03:59] Was about a Chinese American detective

[00:04:01] Set in 1930s and it was in it was a film noir and a noir and people were I heard would hear a lot

[00:04:07] Like oh, I wish there was more stuff like this more stuff that was like sort of taking these classic genres and

[00:04:12] Taking it from a new perspective like and I remember when I heard that I was like

[00:04:16] I kind of wish there was more stuff like that too the problem is I can only write so much for my perspective

[00:04:22] But I realized you know with my background with editing with the people that I've met along the way

[00:04:26] I knew a bunch of people who could do that kind of stuff and do really great work with that and

[00:04:32] So that's kind of was the start for the horizon experiment and from there

[00:04:35] You know I just reached out to them and sort of told them what I was what I was thinking these like one-shot pilots and

[00:04:41] You know and these were all people who really wanted to do comic do more comics and they were coming in

[00:04:46] You know some film TV novelist Vita's the the the one who was in comics already

[00:04:51] but wanted to do more creator-owned stuff and

[00:04:55] And and now they've all started making their road to cause but at the time they had a little trouble breaking it

[00:05:00] And even I would say now they I don't think they've as great as their stuff was been

[00:05:04] I don't think they've done stuff that really showcases what amazing creators they are and that's partly because they haven't had a luxury of doing creator-owned comics

[00:05:11] And when you're doing a creator-owned comic, it just gets to be a hundred percent of you

[00:05:14] It takes everything that you sort of put into it

[00:05:18] And I wanted to see them have those opportunities

[00:05:21] And while there's a lot of places out there that would give them that opportunity

[00:05:24] I'll allow them as for like half ownership on stuff and all that and most of these people had gotten to the point in their lives

[00:05:29] But they didn't need you know

[00:05:31] They didn't want to give that stuff up anymore

[00:05:32] So this was a way to just bring all that sort of stuff together to make five books that I just really wished existed and

[00:05:38] And the idea was you know, I think all that

[00:05:41] You know

[00:05:42] There were all this ideas idea of the rising tide that lifts all ships to sort of help bring attention to it and sort of see

[00:05:47] You know

[00:05:48] It's a weird time in the market right now if the market can sort of you know has room for all sort of five of these books

[00:05:53] Of all books which I really love

[00:05:56] Well, I was reading somewhere while educating myself a little more in preparation for a chat about how are you looking for an artist and speaking with co-editor

[00:06:03] Will Dennis you said what we really need is a Terry Dodson type and will responding well

[00:06:08] Have we thought about asking Terry and I interviewed will a while back and although I don't know him well or anything

[00:06:13] That sounds like a very will Dennis thing to say. Yes, Terry

[00:06:17] How did you connect on this and what appealed to you when porn sack reached out about it?

[00:06:22] Well, we'd met I met corn sack at the Isner ceremonies two years ago

[00:06:27] We were sitting at the same table the image table. He was the winners part of it as the losers part of it

[00:06:33] so we evened out in the end

[00:06:36] and

[00:06:37] We kept in contact

[00:06:40] Not ever after that and then he mentioned the idea to me both the story

[00:06:45] He mentioned immediately and that was I like the story idea then he mentioned the experiment itself

[00:06:50] Which I loved I mean someone who's been working in creator on books now surprisingly for almost 20 years

[00:06:54] I realized how important is to get the word out getting the word out on your project

[00:07:00] Is is as important as a project with creator on because there really is no

[00:07:05] Giant corporation funding you you've got to do yourself and so I love the idea of that

[00:07:11] That's someone who's you know seriously been working hard on creator on and with adventure man

[00:07:15] I've been but just Matt and I promoting that book and I could just see how difficult it is to get people to notice and to order

[00:07:22] Even though it doesn't matter the quality of the project if people don't see it

[00:07:27] They're not gonna buy it right it has to be so this concept of having that's all worked together

[00:07:32] getting 10 voices promoting a book as opposed to just two voices and

[00:07:36] Then I just feel like that amplified every voice you get amplifies, right?

[00:07:41] So because every person has X number of followers and all that stuff. So I I personally love that idea

[00:07:45] so

[00:07:46] so the story was amazing, but

[00:07:49] The way we are gonna work together to make the books sell together

[00:07:54] I loved and that's just so appeals to me as as knowing the comic side the business of the comics

[00:08:01] So yeah, yeah, yeah well after

[00:08:04] Kind of focusing on the business

[00:08:05] I guess after reading through the the man chair and it feels appropriate that this ultimately landed with image because honestly

[00:08:11] It reminds me of that foundational moment in April of 1992 to some extent and that that's not a sales prognostication

[00:08:18] I can't do that, but it's reminiscent at least in a sense of spirit, you know trying to do something different

[00:08:23] So the market as you mentioned is incredibly challenging right now

[00:08:27] So as creators willing to try something that contrasts with current sales models

[00:08:31] What what frustrates you both most about the current direct market ecosystem or was this even born of frustration?

[00:08:38] I guess I don't know if it was born of frustration purse. I mean sure there was some frustration behind it

[00:08:45] I suppose

[00:08:47] Just because I think I think everyone in commas is talking about like oh, you know

[00:08:51] We're not at our like pandemic heights and numbers anymore people are locked in and you know with a ton of money

[00:08:55] They can spend and they're only spending on comments

[00:08:57] But I don't know so we I mean yeah that conversation is sort of just been in the industry

[00:09:01] But I so I don't know if it's much as frustration

[00:09:04] It's just more just like I just wanted to see more books like more books like this

[00:09:08] You know and and the thing that I kind of I want to see more books like this

[00:09:13] But I think going back to what you were saying before it is at the root of comics, you know

[00:09:17] And I am you know anyone who's following my work anyone who knows me

[00:09:21] I just love the history of comics and I love the history of sort of genre

[00:09:24] So to me this goes back to just like DC showcase DC first issue special, you know top cows pilot season

[00:09:30] The you know one of those a parotte series. I love

[00:09:34] Comics were built on these one-offs like amazing spider-man fan

[00:09:39] You know amazing fantasy 15 showcase number four all these things that would just take off and become their sort of

[00:09:44] They're bigger things and so if there was any I don't even know if it was frustration as much as the style

[00:09:50] For there was a time in comics where it was just all experiments

[00:09:54] It was just all throwing stuff against the wall to sort of see what sticks, you know

[00:09:58] Sometimes you can eclipse those sometimes you get Jason's clutch

[00:10:00] But it was all this and then it just got to the point where I feel like a lot of that

[00:10:04] Experimentation went away because everyone's trying to build these business plans around these things and sort of all that sort of stuff

[00:10:10] And so I just love the idea of let's just put stuff out there and just let the audience tells and one of the things that I

[00:10:18] Found that I've had a lot of luck within my career

[00:10:20] It's just betting on the readership at the end of the day like a lot of my book if you were to pitch them to editors and all that sort

[00:10:26] Stuff they'll be like, I don't know about this. Can we change this can we change that?

[00:10:30] And just having faith that the readership is there to pick it up and let them tell you if they want to do it

[00:10:34] Has always sort of borne well for me and and to your point, you know, that is the great thing about image

[00:10:39] I mean image was built off of seven people and this I have so much respect for this at the height of their careers

[00:10:45] Like, you know, they were selling at their most when they walked over and I think since them

[00:10:50] There's a lot of people who've tried to do stuff like this

[00:10:52] But I don't think the image creators have gotten the respect that they've gotten that everyone else has watched their popularity

[00:10:57] Wean and then tried something new they tried something new at the very height

[00:11:01] We were selling millions of comics copies of comics and they decided to try something new and as a result

[00:11:06] You know generations of fans and creators have benefited from that

[00:11:10] But so to me like there was no better place for this is image because that was a spirit of image in the first place

[00:11:15] They've taken this enormous risk on themselves to make the end to to to make a version of the industry that was going to treat them better

[00:11:24] Yeah, it feels like very much a test case to to answer the question

[00:11:27] Are we misjudging the comics reading audience? Right? Yeah. Yeah, and possibly not just with respect to formatting

[00:11:33] But demographics as well. Yeah, you know big picture with respect to representation

[00:11:38] These are all focused on protagonists of color

[00:11:40] so I'm curious if you feel like the

[00:11:43] Character as an in the books

[00:11:45] Representational needle feels different in the big two versus indie books at the moment, you know

[00:11:51] I think the thing about, you know

[00:11:54] Marvel and DC have the best resources to sort of bring in new talent to train new talent to set them up to position succeed

[00:12:00] The problem is the business model of Marvel and DC is they're working on pre-established characters

[00:12:05] And they're mostly characters that were created in the 70s and the 60s in the 80s

[00:12:08] And you're already always going to start with this back foot of just like here's this kind of lame V-list character

[00:12:13] And try to sort of make it cool

[00:12:14] So you never get to start off, you know at ground zero and you know

[00:12:18] And just try to take something that mean that has something to say about today

[00:12:22] That that is current that is modern that is the best of sort of what you know

[00:12:26] That experience potentially is just it just by light of the fact that it was created like 40 50 years ago

[00:12:31] So I think just starting people at a level ground of just sort of been of just sort of saying like hey

[00:12:37] Let's just do something that's just like made for today's audience, you know

[00:12:41] That isn't you know something that people have a

[00:12:45] In their back of their heads of memory as a sea list characters a d-list character

[00:12:48] Just something as simple as that I think levels of playing field a lot

[00:12:51] And I also think too like one of the things I found with my books is that you know

[00:12:55] You can you know, I'd always thought my books were targeted to a very specific audience

[00:12:59] And I've been very pleasantly surprised to find that oh no the audience is much bigger than I think it is and

[00:13:04] And I know and I think I'm making the same mistake that perhaps other editors sort of make that you know

[00:13:09] When you do a book with the black protagonist, there's a black book and all that's and all that but I think that the

[00:13:14] you know the

[00:13:16] The audience is much bigger for for it than that

[00:13:19] You know like especially when you look at like horror audiences or espionage or action

[00:13:23] The audiences are much bigger than that and especially in comments are very passionate about the stuff

[00:13:27] So that's a lot of where you know that particular piece of calculus came

[00:13:31] Okay, I mean is it as simple as saying sales numbers are the metric for success?

[00:13:35] Yeah, I mean I think they have to be at the end of the day, right?

[00:13:38] I mean every for each of these books

[00:13:40] It's very much about the individuals because the way it looks for image

[00:13:44] You know the books either self-finance or part or partially finance but by image

[00:13:48] And so it really comes down to what the creators are comfortable with since they are taking the bed on themselves

[00:13:52] And that every image book it's it's and it's one of the great things about image

[00:13:55] Honestly, it's that creators take chance takes bets on themselves

[00:13:58] But because of that every creator is gonna have a different comfort level in terms of what they're willing to do to sort of

[00:14:05] Take that bet on themselves

[00:14:06] And so sales for these first one-shot sales are the most important aspects of it pre-ordering is so important for this particular thing

[00:14:13] It's always important for comics

[00:14:14] But this particular thing if you want more you really you know

[00:14:18] It needs to show up in those sort of pre-ordered numbers because that's what's gonna make those careers in being like okay

[00:14:22] You know if my first issue does this knowing that sales drop off after that

[00:14:26] You know even if you relaunch, but if my first issue start off like this

[00:14:29] I know going forward like oh this is a I can with this amount of sales. I think it can be comfortable doing for

[00:14:36] Okay, well, let's get people hype about the book getting in the meat of the book itself

[00:14:39] You know, this is this is great stuff

[00:14:42] You know

[00:14:42] I'm a huge fan of both of your work and this didn't disappoint and honestly

[00:14:46] That's because I came in expecting something that would go

[00:14:50] Bombastic and throw everything at the wall right big action chases, you know spy shit

[00:14:54] You know you you have 28 pages here to pull a reader in but

[00:14:59] And that bombastic nature just really wasn't how it played out to me

[00:15:03] And that that would have been safe and although I'm certain you both could have executed that well

[00:15:07] Instead there's a bit of an understated tone that creates this beautiful pocket to kind of explore the lives of the characters that inhabit your world on an emotional level

[00:15:15] You know, I came in expecting a threat spy thriller

[00:15:18] Which I got but the lens of it was entirely flipped on its head

[00:15:21] Which makes it stand out in the genre that it's playing in so building that world

[00:15:27] You know you chip porn type you clearly have an interest in Chinese spy craft and I had no idea that it looks so different

[00:15:33] The then kind of our own or like CIA British MI 6 are similar

[00:15:38] So why did you want to explore that specifically? I just found it so fascinating

[00:15:43] I found it so fascinating for anyone who doesn't know Chinese espionage

[00:15:46] They use the analogy of a thousand grains of sands and the idea is that

[00:15:51] if you you know if if a Western spy wanted to get sand from a beach

[00:15:56] They would send like an elite frogman in the middle of the night go to that beach and sort of steal it

[00:16:00] But what the Chinese would do is they would send a thousand tourists to that same beach in the middle of the in the middle

[00:16:05] The day and broad daylight and at the end

[00:16:07] All those tourists would sort of get together and shake the sand out of their boots

[00:16:11] And they'd have as much sand if not more than that

[00:16:13] That it better than an elite frogman is by did and I just thought that was such a fascinating approach

[00:16:19] So completely the opposite and it's a very eastern approach where it's about the community and about as opposed to sort of the individual

[00:16:25] Yeah

[00:16:26] And I think that's one of the reasons why it felt like a great way to tell a different sort of type of spice or is that hopefully still feels like

[00:16:33] Feels like adjacent to the spice are used to seeing but just sort of like a different sort of take on it

[00:16:38] Whereas more just about the little individuals that sort of make up the then make up the process as opposed to

[00:16:43] You know the big sort of bombasticness which by the way is something like you know when me and Terry talked about it

[00:16:49] We always kind of saw this as our sort of like casino Royale

[00:16:51] Where where you know we can kind of build this sort of more craziness sort of from there

[00:16:55] But to start at a place that was really about character and really by establishing the character and the concept in this world

[00:17:00] That that you're that you're living in and you know and I got to do it

[00:17:03] You know and I got to do it with Terry so it looks gorgeous

[00:17:06] And you know and and the thing that excites me about it too is as like this is the editor side of my brain

[00:17:11] Is that you know

[00:17:13] Terry was like the perfect person for doing this it's like this kind of action this intrigue

[00:17:18] But it was also sexy

[00:17:19] You know and it's kind of everything that Terry does but the same time he hadn't done anything exactly like this before

[00:17:25] So that's your that's you know when you're working as an editor

[00:17:29] That's their your ideal moment where you realize like oh wow he has the person

[00:17:33] It's all the skills for something like this

[00:17:35] But at the same time they actually haven't done it so you get to be the person to like break that story in a certain

[00:17:39] So

[00:17:41] Terry as the the visual world builder in the partnership

[00:17:43] Is it more challenging for you as an artist to do

[00:17:46] Creator own work where you're you know doing all the heavy lifting to fill in over working on established characters

[00:17:52] Um, well, I mean if you have to put workload in it's it's definitely more workload, but as far as uh enjoyment

[00:18:00] Uh, I enjoy it way more. I I had someone who's

[00:18:03] Worked on everything for all the mainstream companies once or even twice. Um, I love the challenge of creating

[00:18:10] that's that's what uh

[00:18:13] keeps me excited about working in comics is the fact that I get to uh continually create things. I mean that's

[00:18:20] The doing something repetitive like uh, like if I was an animation

[00:18:24] I like keep drawing the same, you know bugs budding every day or something

[00:18:26] One day I'd be done as the greatest thing about um

[00:18:32] comics is that every day every page every panel is a new thing and especially

[00:18:38] And that's really true. That's true in mainstream work

[00:18:40] But in creator owned it's especially true because there's nothing designed nothing's been figured out before it's all

[00:18:45] It's all comes out of my head and uh, or our heads

[00:18:49] And um, it I absolutely love it. I love the challenge. I love I love creating

[00:18:54] I just that's my favorite thing to do. I couldn't be I can't think of a job

[00:18:57] In the world that I'd be happier doing than like a creator own book

[00:19:01] Because it's it's so much what I enjoy doing. I love design characters buying worlds

[00:19:06] I enclose and then I love drawing comics love telling a story on a page and so

[00:19:11] It's a world that I get to design and just live in for you know weeks months years

[00:19:16] I just uh, it is it is way more work. I could make a lot more money short term

[00:19:22] Just drawing just that books at marvel in dc

[00:19:24] But uh as far as creative

[00:19:27] Pleasure and just just fielding satisfaction for what I do. It's the creator own stuff

[00:19:32] This book in particular. I mean so this is technically my fourth creator own book I've done now this this this century

[00:19:39] Um and each one of them has been uh a complete 180 turn from the one before the very first thing I did was like a like a steampunk

[00:19:45] Victoria era story set in europe the second one was a

[00:19:50] Russian spy sent to the us a soviet spy sent to the us in the 70s at la you know, third one was an adventure man, which is this whole

[00:19:57] uh, new york

[00:20:00] Reboots that today and now here I am dealing with a chinese super spy in the us

[00:20:05] so

[00:20:07] I love um, I love the challenge of um creating new things and I like uh, I have I have

[00:20:15] For better or worse. I just have so many interests in so many things

[00:20:18] I love to play around in so many different genres and uh

[00:20:21] And I've been fortunate my career to to really have done every like kind of mainstream

[00:20:27] Super girl kind of thing and so now it's the now there's this whole other world of all these other

[00:20:31] genres that uh and creating creating new world and places and stuff. It's just such a such a blast and and this book was great where

[00:20:39] Uh, it was it would end up being a very quiet book. And so how do I how do I?

[00:20:44] Separate this from anything else on the shelves and I just kind of figured out those ways where I needed to pop things

[00:20:49] make it exciting and and then um

[00:20:51] I color my own work and so I figured out these unique palettes

[00:20:55] I was going to use for this book to really separate it from other work that I've done before and then the

[00:21:00] And then it's so huge for the storytelling

[00:21:03] of um, how when we change scenes how this all works and uh, no, it's it's it's it's been a blast

[00:21:09] so and then important sack has given me a ton of great material to work on and and uh

[00:21:15] And he's been an awesome collaborator work with as far as any time I have any question about the stupidest slightest thing

[00:21:21] I'm able to get that figured out right away

[00:21:23] Go ahead. I one thing I just wanted to say too is just like and I feel like you can totally see

[00:21:27] how much uh terry loves sort of creator-owned work because specifically because uh,

[00:21:32] And something I feel very uh lucky about is that he colors his own work on his creator-owned sort of stuff

[00:21:37] And I think if you're a terry dots and fan like, you know, if you haven't seen his career on work

[00:21:41] You haven't seen terry at his best like the colors are just so gorgeous

[00:21:45] Uh, it you know as great as all his marvel and dc stuff is and you see it more in his covers

[00:21:49] I sort of feel like because he colors his own covers when he works for marvel and dc

[00:21:52] But I feel like you see so much of his like interior work colored when he works on his own stuff

[00:21:56] Whether it's this or adventure man, you know or red one or and and all that stuff and and I yeah

[00:22:01] I just think just terry doing as many of those aspects as he can. It's just it's the best version of them

[00:22:07] All right, let's take a quick break

[00:22:10] Hey comics fam it the comic book publisher band of bars just got a level up and announced it is now a cooperative

[00:22:17] This heralds a new era for them including a partnership with dollas stories

[00:22:22] And they added several new members to the ownership group

[00:22:24] Marcus Jimenez is now chief operating officer

[00:22:27] Brent Fisher takes on the role of chief diversity officer and joey galvez is introduced as head of kickstarter ops and social media manager

[00:22:36] Which is sure to increase their capabilities overall as a publisher

[00:22:40] And it further promotes their mission statement of advancing representation

[00:22:44] Inclusion and diversity in the media

[00:22:46] They also established a new board of directors to help chart the new path of their journey

[00:22:51] With new projects in the works like Alaska by dropping in june

[00:22:54] Unbroken soon launching on kickstarter and pollen coming up with thoughtless

[00:22:58] Stay tuned to this space for more exciting news from the growing bards family

[00:23:06] Let's get back to the show

[00:23:08] There's all these little bitty things that color with the color choices. It's it's totally muted

[00:23:13] It almost feels like it was colored normally and then either a soft dusky blue overlay was thrown on top or

[00:23:19] Everything was designed using analogous colors close together on the color wheel

[00:23:23] Which which makes the whole thing purposely understated except for kelvin's own kind of inner monologue, which is a deep red

[00:23:30] So it's an interesting choice for a spy focus book and yet another example while i'll remember it

[00:23:36] So talk to me about the some of those color choices

[00:23:40] Well, yeah, well, I'll say the other thing. I mean everything you said was exactly how I approached it and then when

[00:23:46] When the big moments happened is when I will really open it up

[00:23:49] We had a couple of little parts in this where we did that but I I'm it's all just like kind of strategic planning

[00:23:57] Keeping keeping the colors relevant to what's happening in the story, you know

[00:24:01] Not trying to overcolor things that do not need the attention drawn to them

[00:24:05] And really trying to let the the color and be the be the storyteller the mood setter, which is I mean I just

[00:24:13] I really love

[00:24:15] That I mean just I've always I always think of my work in full color even when I'm penciling it

[00:24:20] I always imagine that everything I'm doing is fully realized and so it's such a thrill to be able to

[00:24:25] Have that final pass

[00:24:28] on the work with the color

[00:24:30] And it's just it's amazing how how much you can tweak a story with the colors

[00:24:35] It's um, I mean it it's it's I think as the years go by people are going to start realizing how important

[00:24:41] Is maybe that the person is drawn on the book. It should be coloring the book as well

[00:24:44] I mean, obviously there's just people who don't have uh, don't have that color sense or whatever

[00:24:48] But I really think that it it's it's essentially like being the director

[00:24:51] I guess because you've got to kind of you've got to pull these all these things together

[00:24:54] And how can someone feel that mood correctly if they didn't aren't the one that actually created I guess

[00:24:59] Um, and there are amazing colors too, but it it's it's that singular vision

[00:25:05] on the visuals I think is

[00:25:07] For me anyways is it's ultra important. I just I can't imagine

[00:25:10] Trying to describe all this stuff to someone else to try to portray and sometimes, you know

[00:25:14] It's color you put the color down on a page and all of a sudden you realize

[00:25:17] Well, there's just one panel that looks right and I can I can go I can go through like 12 colors on something

[00:25:23] At once just figure out what works best

[00:25:25] I really pretty much know what I want but it's always always a fun surprise to have this one color

[00:25:30] Just pop out of the blue and go that's the one that's going to make this one work

[00:25:34] Yeah, I mean from from the jump you get sucked in with the color work

[00:25:38] First off the cover actually echoes the Chinese flag. So

[00:25:42] And you have in the panels

[00:25:45] There are there are lots of like facial profile shots that create a motion with the acting which creates a

[00:25:50] A more grounded intimacy with the characters that one might expect

[00:25:54] Kind of an espionage on our project where usually it's all full objects James Bond gadgetry that sort of thing

[00:25:59] So it was a refreshing change of pace

[00:26:02] For me and how is it for you to kind of work in that pocket with no Harley Quinn hammers no

[00:26:08] Super intricate topographical, you know background detail work, you know and just focus on

[00:26:13] characters

[00:26:15] You know, I mean

[00:26:16] I will say almost from the very beginning of my career this the one strength my art had was that I could

[00:26:22] I drew emotions well through character as well through talking scenes. Well, I mean from

[00:26:26] from the very

[00:26:27] Like once I started working in industry, I was

[00:26:30] I never really I never had to look for a job since day one. I've been hired every

[00:26:36] There's always been a job sitting in front of me at all times. That's because I think I didn't realize at the time

[00:26:41] But I think writers realized that I could tell talking stories

[00:26:45] I could drop

[00:26:46] Even people caught talking heads and I don't think of those pages like that

[00:26:49] But I understand what they're saying and I don't sit there and think oh, I got put heads on this page

[00:26:53] And make it in earth. I just tell a story, you know, it's all the same to me whether it's whether it's people talking whether it's actions to mix

[00:27:00] It's you know intrigue or whatever it is

[00:27:02] I approach the way I I tell stories the same for all that stuff. It's all they're all equal

[00:27:08] Doesn't matter how much action or whatever. It's all the same

[00:27:12] it's all about telling the story and

[00:27:15] I I enjoy the challenge of trying to get the

[00:27:18] The emotions right. I want everybody to be able to read the story without doing the dialogue on there

[00:27:23] I want to succeed just visually. I want people just to look through the book and know exactly what happened

[00:27:29] Obviously, there's all the good details and that that's in the dialogue, but it needs to

[00:27:34] Flow visually and be understood purely visually

[00:27:38] and uh, yeah, I just it's it's something that's fairly natural for me to do and but um

[00:27:44] Yeah, it's a challenge too because it's getting it down to like these millimeter

[00:27:49] differences of

[00:27:51] Expression it's like I just so it's always this thing of pushing myself to make sure it reads without the dialogue

[00:27:57] Crystal clear and it took you know, I'm not always happy. I'll admit

[00:28:00] But that's daily on everything I do

[00:28:02] There's no no difference between this project and anything else where there are frustrations

[00:28:06] but you know at the end of the day

[00:28:08] It's professional work and it gets this going across since good enough or then sometimes it really succeeds well

[00:28:13] That's um, I'm thrilled when that happens

[00:28:15] Yeah, there was one particular panel that jumped out to me kind of as a visual artist myself

[00:28:21] And I'm very curious about that so it's in the museum and you have all these angles

[00:28:24] I would have I would have erased this scene. I guess 10 times, you know

[00:28:27] Trying to gotten way too obsessive and how how all these angles move the eye around

[00:28:32] But you have two people standing back to back with these paper airplane like sculptural installations

[00:28:38] That was bloody brilliant. Like I had not seen that before and it was I really get

[00:28:43] So as somebody who is a visual artist, I'm always looking for ways

[00:28:47] To engage somebody and keep them and I work in photography

[00:28:51] So you get one image to really suck people in and try to you know, make them stick with whatever you're trying to tell them

[00:28:58] And and this was really bloody brilliant to do that. Um, so it was it was actually a fantastic moment for me and

[00:29:05] in that first

[00:29:06] Yeah

[00:29:07] Well, you know that was that was I thought I

[00:29:10] I

[00:29:11] I had designed the pages or I done the breakdowns on the pages for the storytelling and I realized that this is this art museum

[00:29:19] It's like, do I really want to create, you know

[00:29:21] 50 new paintings on these walls? It's like, yeah

[00:29:25] You know, so that was the first thing so I knew I didn't want to do that

[00:29:28] And so I go well, it's it's but it's modern art

[00:29:30] So we can use sculptures and that really gives me the freedom to make a lot more depth

[00:29:34] An interest on a page and that's really what it comes down to

[00:29:37] You know, you have these you I it was that it was that or is it gonna be flat paintings on walls?

[00:29:41] And it's like that has no depth of interest and we have the freedom here to

[00:29:45] Do that and then I really felt that those shapes really put were really totally directed your eye

[00:29:49] And obviously it was depth storytelling and then and then and then what they're talking about in those shapes are

[00:29:55] You know these sharp angular things really echoing what's really going on in this quiet museum

[00:30:01] The the importance of what they're saying so I mean that's

[00:30:05] That's why I do what I do because

[00:30:07] um

[00:30:08] Having to get push that idea through like 10 10 groups of people before they allow me to do it

[00:30:13] Would I would just give up but with comics it's immediate once I have this idea

[00:30:17] I know it's gonna work or I think it's gonna work

[00:30:20] I can just push it and push it the more I can push things the more confidence I get with it

[00:30:24] The better it turns out and that is the beauty of of doing comics and the beauty of especially the beauty of the creator

[00:30:30] On where there's you go with your best idea and you're gut feeling if you're wrong you're wrong

[00:30:34] But generally your gut's gonna be all right at the bad at worst

[00:30:39] And we think about terry too

[00:30:41] I would have to say is that like it's funny like terry does a bunch of scenes where people are talking

[00:30:46] But he never does a talking head scene. There is so much movement

[00:30:50] When terry, you know when harry has a scene about a conversation it never feels like two two heads sort of talking

[00:30:56] It's never that it always just feels like you're constantly moving around backwards forwards in and out

[00:31:00] Like if there's an enormous sort of sense of movement, which is one of the things I think going back to like why

[00:31:05] You know writers like love working with terry. It's just like yeah, you couldn't give him a scene when two people are talking

[00:31:10] But it's never a talking head scene. There's all it's things are always moving

[00:31:14] Right. Yeah, and that's just that's just storytelling and

[00:31:19] Visual interest. I mean that's you I mean most movies are talking head films. You really think about it

[00:31:23] Or tv shows and you don't you don't get bored and why is that well the faces are so pretty in real life or whatever

[00:31:28] And so you can't depend on that enough in a flat medium like we have to use so you have to use visual interest and and sometimes really

[00:31:36] I think smart to do I think this is good for all artists out there to know is that

[00:31:40] Set up a set up a believable environment and put those characters in that environment pull back and show that environment

[00:31:45] All of a sudden you do that once or twice. You don't have to do it again

[00:31:49] All the readers are now imagining that environment in their head and that allows you the chance to be a lot more creative with your pages

[00:31:54] You're not

[00:31:55] You're not trying to cheat stuff

[00:31:56] And you're not just doing and then again you're avoiding the just the talking head thing because people just do the talking heads

[00:32:01] To go as a talking at page like before these the day it'll be really easy

[00:32:04] All of a sudden you've lost those people

[00:32:05] You've lost those readers whereas you put you work a little bit harder

[00:32:08] And you set this stuff up to look interesting let the readers do all the work for you on page four

[00:32:13] So that by the time you get to page four you don't have to draw a lot because you've already

[00:32:16] Done all that work

[00:32:18] Is that what takes the longest amount of time to put that environment together because

[00:32:23] I'm imagining when you're working on a longer form project and and not let's say like a cover, you know

[00:32:29] I was just curious if there was like a page number where you get your feet under you with a look and you're happy with it

[00:32:34] You know does that differ from project to project?

[00:32:36] You know is the environment itself the nucleus of what you try to do when you're taking something on that's new and then

[00:32:41] You can just roll

[00:32:43] Yeah, no that's I mean that's world building. That's huge

[00:32:46] I mean the the first issue of anything I do takes forever

[00:32:49] Even if it's even if it's a marvellous ebook because I'm still even though that world's built

[00:32:53] I'm still building my version of it. It takes a lot longer as a creator own book

[00:32:59] Every first issue I've done as a creator on has taken

[00:33:02] It basically any first issue I do have a creative book

[00:33:04] I will never make money on because the amount of money amount of time it takes me to build a world as I'm drawing

[00:33:09] It is there's just it's an imp. It's just that that page rate would be thousands and thousands of dollars

[00:33:15] so I always know that first for the first issue is a loss but

[00:33:19] If the first issue the first issue has to be in has to have all that thought put into it in order for issue two

[00:33:24] To be done three four by time you get to the second third fourth issues

[00:33:28] Um, you've done so much of that world building or you so when the next time you come to something new

[00:33:33] You already kind of know how to solve that problem how that works in that world

[00:33:36] So it just speeds everything up. Um, and then yeah, like I can like adventure man

[00:33:40] We're on our 12th issue now so I can say

[00:33:43] And we're doing all these brand new designs for that new part of the series right now

[00:33:47] But I know that there's this system that these things fall into that can fall back

[00:33:51] It's like this is a totally different looking thing than before

[00:33:54] But we do these kind of things

[00:33:57] And so I kind of echo those kind of things in the newer ones

[00:34:00] And that just speeds it up for the mentoring to do the exact same thing

[00:34:02] The next time I'd be the manchurian that'd be able to do it

[00:34:04] I'd say twice as fast mostly because it's the real world. There's a real world set locations and so

[00:34:10] um, it would almost this book would go

[00:34:14] Much faster much more like a a marvel style book. I think eventually okay

[00:34:19] Okay

[00:34:20] Getting into some of the character stuff

[00:34:22] I love the the fixer angle for the the manchurians in the book as I have spent some time as a

[00:34:27] Basically a fixer myself

[00:34:29] And I have no experience as a spy before anyone asks and no

[00:34:34] I've never worked for the mafia. Yeah, I'm way too honest for that

[00:34:37] But I did play that role way too often babysitting rock stars

[00:34:41] So yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well quick story

[00:34:44] so

[00:34:45] I was working as production manager for a huge diva whose name will remain secret as I still have friends in the business

[00:34:50] And I don't want to damage their rep

[00:34:52] I don't know if either of you have heard of diptych candles. Are are there you familiar with these?

[00:34:56] No, okay

[00:34:58] So these are super high-end bougie candles made from high-end french botanicals, right?

[00:35:02] So said diva heard about Madonna having these backstage and then they had to have them these candles are about

[00:35:08] $75 a piece mind you for like an eight ounce candle, right?

[00:35:12] Yeah, they had to be added to the advance rider, which is essentially a fulfillment list

[00:35:16] It's passed on to each venue prior to the arrival so they can get things ready

[00:35:19] So you just can't find these anywhere and it was becoming a massive massive headache dealing with local arena managers

[00:35:25] Bitching about trying to find these things. So my idea was to buy beeswax pellets and some essential oils and basically make

[00:35:32] Fake ones so we printed out fancy replica labels and problem solved

[00:35:36] I just placed them in the dressy rooms and and lit them for a 10 month tour with with the said diva not being any

[00:35:43] The wiser

[00:35:44] I wish I could say that was a nice example

[00:35:46] But rock stars are really rare breed and that was pretty much daily for well over a decade

[00:35:51] So damn it. I qualify as a fixer, but anyway

[00:35:55] Manchuria is dealing with sensitive and or esoteric problems. So so why make that the focal point of the story?

[00:36:01] I just love, you know, again, I think it is

[00:36:05] Part of my love for so the history of storytelling

[00:36:08] It's like I love the that he kind of had a procedural engine

[00:36:11] He had this like he had a you know

[00:36:14] Kind of the week a case of the week and I kind of thought that was and maybe that harkens back to the pilot nature of it all

[00:36:19] I'm not I'm not sure but I but because the the world of chinese espionage is no one important is more than

[00:36:25] Than anyone else. I like this idea of someone who kind of goes into all their lives

[00:36:31] And sort of you know and it sort of helps sort of all those all those people

[00:36:34] And and I do love that character of you know of the fixer like, you know

[00:36:39] You know what harvey kytel's character and pulp fiction and all that kind of stuff where their job is just like

[00:36:43] Whatever problem that you have like sort of i'm gonna take care of it

[00:36:46] So I like this idea of oh, he's a fixer for spies if you're a spy and you have a problem, you know

[00:36:53] You you know the way chinese espionage works is that you need to not the whole point is that you never commit a crime

[00:37:00] That you never break the law because the second you break the law you become a liability

[00:37:03] But if you never break a law then there's no way to catch you

[00:37:06] There's no way to prosecute or anything like that

[00:37:08] But sometimes things might have to happen where people do need to break the law

[00:37:12] And you just have this one person whose job it is who's been trained specifically to break the law to sort of help

[00:37:17] of help other spies and

[00:37:20] I you know, it really felt sort of it fit that world

[00:37:23] But also I thought it was a great inversion of that classic

[00:37:27] You know, you know, I think we're all of the age where we remember those

[00:37:30] You know those those 80s television shows that were just like oh you hire some or just like the p.i

[00:37:36] You know, I miss that that like the p.i

[00:37:38] Who kind of is brought in to like do things that people's just sort of hire

[00:37:40] So that felt like a very modern take on the on on that

[00:37:44] And yeah, and it felt like it could it could lead to sort of all these interesting stories

[00:37:48] And I think at the end of the day what the manchurian is about is

[00:37:52] You know every comic sets itself in a world and and the manchurian very much is about the world of disillusionment

[00:37:57] It's about how different people get disillusioned and what they will do because of their disillusionment

[00:38:01] And to me there is a lot of of stories to tell

[00:38:05] In a world where you're looking at all the different ways people get disillusioned and how one person

[00:38:09] Can kind of help them and the twists and the irony being here

[00:38:12] He's like he's not helping them for america's sort of a best interest. He's helping him for their rivals. Best interest

[00:38:18] Okay, you talked about community and i'm curious about sort of the root of any espionage

[00:38:24] You know versus everything else we've come to associate with it is community that is that ultimately the root in this

[00:38:33] More corporate versus state oriented sort of espionage. I you know, I think so I think you know

[00:38:39] I it's I never really thought about it until you just sort of send it right there

[00:38:43] But I do think because you know chinese espionage is corporate espionage

[00:38:48] It and corporate especially the world way we

[00:38:51] What corporations and what corporate sort of warfare has become it has this like winners sort of take all mentality

[00:38:57] So it is very individualistic

[00:38:59] And so it is natural then that its opposition would be sort of a community

[00:39:04] And so it so there is a kind of like class warfare that's sort of happening

[00:39:08] Kind of at the center of the book between corporations and and people and I honestly think that's what the book is about at the end of the day

[00:39:14] It's just like how these are all if you're talking about disillusionment

[00:39:17] It's disillusionment from sort of like this corporate structure that has taken over every aspect of our world

[00:39:22] And how do people sort of fight back against against that?

[00:39:25] Okay, well, what are you both most proud of in terms of uniqueness of the delivery on Demantrian?

[00:39:31] I mean, I'm most proud of working with terry. Like I just think the book is so cool

[00:39:36] It looks so good and also too like it is it's also terry

[00:39:41] You know terry has this this art that that just comes from being a veteran comments artist

[00:39:46] I think where he can just he can make a

[00:39:50] Four panel page look like a splash page because he knows like that opening page where you know

[00:39:55] We do our Ursula andris slash danyel craig sort of homage and coming out of the water

[00:39:59] That feels like a splash page even though there are four panels on that page

[00:40:04] And and I you know, and it was when I started writing comics

[00:40:07] It was something I would always have in my mind

[00:40:09] But artists it took an artist like terry to actually pull it off and make you realize like oh, there's a reason why

[00:40:14] Not it when terry does it it seems like anyone can do it

[00:40:18] But then you realize working with other people like no it takes a like it takes a very

[00:40:22] You know

[00:40:24] Very um, which we call it, uh

[00:40:27] Um, it takes a lot of experience. I have a like have that command of a page

[00:40:30] To be able to get that much information on there and yet still make it look like everything breathes

[00:40:36] It does

[00:40:38] It takes a lot of experience to do that

[00:40:40] I mean I could didn't even that in that page

[00:40:43] I struggled with that happened, but you know, that's those are I'm just on a secure, uh

[00:40:47] Technical level doing pages like that are extremely important

[00:40:51] And they're not easy because you're because it's four things and how do you balance these things on that?

[00:40:55] But that's comics that you're jug I mean you're juggling so many things when you're doing comics

[00:40:59] And that's the reason I like I like the challenge of it when it works great when it almost works or it's good enough

[00:41:04] That's good too

[00:41:06] I love that. I mean it's such a high wire act

[00:41:10] And i'm glad that it that that that particular thing worked out because it's the first images that people will see

[00:41:14] You know, it's really key. I spent I spent I think I had that rip

[00:41:19] Maybe I don't know at least three months three months before I drew that page that page was in my head for a long time

[00:41:24] I knew how key that page was

[00:41:26] um

[00:41:27] So but and then based off of that like success of that one

[00:41:30] I know like how to handle that next time that shows up on that issue and all those things I really go

[00:41:34] Okay, this worked well here

[00:41:36] It's a thing like in comics I find it

[00:41:38] It builds upon itself page by page as you do it

[00:41:43] Um, but as far as like the project itself and the satisfaction I'd have to say actually that it's kind of like, um

[00:41:50] This one issue thing

[00:41:52] As it is

[00:41:53] It was this experiment is done it we've done it. It's it's uh, it's readable

[00:41:58] You know, it's up to the market now to decide what we do next with it

[00:42:01] But it feels really good to have

[00:42:03] To be on this side of it where um, it's always been this idea

[00:42:07] But now we have this one issue thing with people to throw it off of the public

[00:42:11] Let's let them see what they think about it. Um, we know, you know, we did the best we could and

[00:42:16] That's it's fun to be doing that as opposed to launching the book courts

[00:42:20] You know, we're 12 months out or whatever it which is I'm we're sitting there promoting it

[00:42:26] But we don't really even know where it's done. We're here. We do get to wrap it

[00:42:29] It feels very good. It's rare that I'm on something that's not being done

[00:42:33] years

[00:42:34] It's only ahead of me after the time so it said I loved that idea of it

[00:42:39] Yeah, and the one thing I will say too, but I'm talking about pride is I do like the fact that we just

[00:42:44] We give a whole world and a whole sort of mythology and you know

[00:42:49] And future antagonists like I

[00:42:51] I I do feel like that's kind of lost in comics now and it is something when I read old comics

[00:42:57] I look at and it's just like oh, that's so cool. They just give you everything

[00:43:00] In a single issue and now we stretch that before yeah eight pages sometimes

[00:43:05] Eight pages all there man. Yeah, and so the idea and I and it's like this for all the all the all the one shot

[00:43:11] But just because this is the one I worked on so I

[00:43:14] So I have a more intimate connection with it

[00:43:16] Is the fact that you get a full meal that you get not just a you know, you got a new character

[00:43:20] Hopefully then you enjoy you get action you get gorgeous art

[00:43:23] You get like a world and a sort of mythology and then you also have hopefully

[00:43:27] Tracks for like where that story can go too and it's all done in one comic and uh, I I love that and

[00:43:35] And I have a lot of pride with that and also makes me think like I wish we saw more

[00:43:39] Stuff like that. Like I just really loved that

[00:43:43] Yeah, comics comics is that thing where it's it's I mean

[00:43:47] There's there's no limitation on what you do with that's now. That's why this is such a great great idea that um,

[00:43:53] they're just there

[00:43:55] You should be able to walk on the comic shop and pick up any random thing and be excited about it, you know

[00:43:59] It's just I love that uh, the the the only limitation on comics is like your imagination the creator's imagination

[00:44:06] So that's just such a it's such a rare art form that we have nowadays

[00:44:10] Yeah, well one of the obvious, you know issues with the experiment overall is

[00:44:14] What the hell do you do if it jumps off right? Everybody is busy, you know

[00:44:19] If it is indeed a market banger now that we have to work on this, you know

[00:44:23] With all these already packed schedules

[00:44:25] It's a bit easier on writers because they probably at least have at least an outline for the first full arc ready to go

[00:44:31] But artist terry, you know, are you ready for more?

[00:44:34] Like what what's the plan here? Say let's say this is successful and sales numbers are great

[00:44:39] Um, well it's a good problem to have, you know, I yeah, oh all I have on my schedule

[00:44:44] saying a lot but all I have on my schedule do comic book wise is creator own work. So um

[00:44:49] Um, it's just a matter of scheduling things in and I'm my own

[00:44:54] My own schedule my own so it's just a matter of figuring out where that's gonna fit. Um, I I have it vaguely in mind

[00:45:02] So that's um, I'm juggling all these things. I'm juggling but you know, again, it's a good problem to have

[00:45:06] It's like, oh, this is a book that people want to see and it'll be successful. So if I do do it

[00:45:11] It's because the market demanded it

[00:45:13] So that's that's a nice way to go into a creator own book because generally you're going as we did

[00:45:16] When started and go into it blind not knowing what people are gonna think

[00:45:20] So if we know going into it that it's going to sell already

[00:45:24] That'll be time made to work on it. Yeah

[00:45:26] Yeah, I mean like scheduling is always sort of a problem with sort of ending for your own book

[00:45:30] But I think the important thing that we wanted

[00:45:33] With with horizon the horizon experiment was just that like again like I think you could get paralyzed by sort of trying to

[00:45:39] Plan out five years into advance or two years into advance or a year into advance of like what the thing is

[00:45:44] And again, it goes to the spirit of like just what what built comics and all

[00:45:49] Literally everything that we read now in comics was built on this notion of

[00:45:53] We're just going to do this one story and then things sort of took off from there

[00:45:57] And and I think it's getting back to to that and to getting back to that sense of experimentation

[00:46:02] That's better mental play. I mean, I think comics should be constantly throwing ideas against the wall

[00:46:07] And that like sort of seri like terry says if you know, it's a good problem to have if people want more

[00:46:12] And certainly like, you know, I'm thinking sort of with that in mind

[00:46:15] And as well all the creators are

[00:46:17] Um, but uh, but I think the most important thing

[00:46:21] Was not to paralyze ourselves with theoreticals and just wait for the enthusiasts that's in there

[00:46:27] And then once it's there capitalize and make the most of it

[00:46:29] Okay, well with the horizon, I'll just say quickly

[00:46:32] I was gonna say quickly that I mean I would more I take the job is on that fact

[00:46:36] I'm just going to jump into this because I know I know it's only this much at this point and then successful

[00:46:41] great it was pretty much a a blind jump, but knowing it was it was

[00:46:46] It was gonna be a fun thing that there's gonna be a great project to work on and a great time for me to do

[00:46:51] Regardless so with porn sex great writing

[00:46:54] um the the material

[00:46:56] Um and the limited scope it would take to of my investment of time. It was an easy thing to commit to

[00:47:03] Well in terms of a shared universe for the overall horizon experiment

[00:47:08] What can we expect, you know, are they going to interact at all if we go forward?

[00:47:12] Is that something you can even talk about I

[00:47:14] So I think I can talk about like the fact that

[00:47:17] You know we very much

[00:47:18] I think all the horizon creators kind of talked about like that model of image comics where you know an image

[00:47:25] It's up to them if they wanted to cross over but they could you know very easily enough

[00:47:29] And so some books, you know, it was issue two and you got someone from another book

[00:47:34] Books it was issue sort of 25, but it was all sort of there's nothing in the books that cancels out

[00:47:39] It makes it impossible. It's just sort of logistics

[00:47:42] And so if it's fun for any of the creators like I think it's all something like oh, yeah at some point

[00:47:46] But I will also say too like that's almost like a that's like a third wave problem

[00:47:51] I want it like the first, you know the the patient on the table right now is

[00:47:55] Can we see more of these in general and then once we get that then it's like

[00:47:59] Oh, can some of these starts overlap?

[00:48:01] But uh, but yeah, but that's thinking very far in advance and right now the the main thing is just getting people to show up and say

[00:48:06] Hey, do you want more of this they've proved that you want more of this in general and then we will give you more

[00:48:12] Okay

[00:48:13] Well before we wrap up what else are you both working on terry?

[00:48:16] I know you've been doing a lot of cover work recently

[00:48:18] I'm is a ton of fan and that cover for bring down the house that that's just gorgeous

[00:48:22] And i'm chatting with jason on thursday about dazzler, which I know you're doing some cover

[00:48:26] Maybe slash covers work for as well. What you got? We working on?

[00:48:30] Oh, yeah cover wise. Um, I see I just uh the

[00:48:34] Gotham city sirens

[00:48:35] I think assignment is just wrapping up this this week next week the news a tana cover

[00:48:40] The dazzler covers will launch for four issues in uh, september

[00:48:45] um, i'm always doing like variant covers

[00:48:48] And the next year dc's got me lined up for I think made possibly three different cover assignments

[00:48:54] Very similar kind of stuff that people love to see me do but day to day. I am drawing the next arc of adventure man

[00:49:01] Volume three just shipped in july

[00:49:05] Matt and I are working on volume four matt's written all three scripts for volume four which he has never been ahead of me

[00:49:13] So that gets I think they get to a the the level of excitement that we both have for this this next arc

[00:49:19] I feel like

[00:49:20] um

[00:49:21] In the third volume we really hit uh hit our

[00:49:24] Our pace for the type of stories we want to do and volume four opens the door to be where we thought we would be

[00:49:30] I think in volume two

[00:49:31] I think the fans are really going to enjoy it matt and I are never been happier about working on on it and

[00:49:36] And by being three issues

[00:49:38] It allows me time throughout the year to work on things like venturing and then and covers another stuff

[00:49:43] So I love the amount of time per year. I've been working on it

[00:49:46] Um, that makes me be able to put all my best effort into it and yet have time to do other things. I keep me excited

[00:49:53] um

[00:49:55] Yeah, and actually i'm actually um, yeah, uh, it's been the cover work and that um

[00:50:01] That is keeping me busy for the next year. So yeah

[00:50:04] All right, corn sack. What about you? You're clearly wrangling a lot. What else you

[00:50:08] I'm wrangling a lot. Um, I think so the way it works is I I can rarely talk about what my next project is

[00:50:14] When when i'm promoted one would because they're so far out

[00:50:17] I think it is publicly at this point that um, I'm doing something in the dc absolute universe and and then I then uh

[00:50:25] A sniper like spot comes on me if I start to breathe anymore

[00:50:30] Okay, I won't I won't press I won't press

[00:50:33] Well, I'm super excited to see all the amazing drops and and I really applaud the big swing

[00:50:40] Right and creative approaches in the medium. I wish there was more space to let people take more chances these days

[00:50:46] You know remind me when we can expect the the manchurian to hit shelves

[00:50:49] Yeah, so the manchurian can hit shells uh september 25th, but the most important date

[00:50:54] I would say is september 2nd. That's where you need to get

[00:50:57] Tell your stores that you want one because that's where foc final order cutoff happens

[00:51:01] And that initial, you know print run and all that is really tell the tale if there's going to be more or not

[00:51:06] So september 2nd is the most important day so tell tell your uh tell your stores that you that you want to copy or two or three

[00:51:14] All right

[00:51:15] Well, hopefully we've convinced people that they need to order it because I I love this book

[00:51:18] You know, although we've given you a taste of what's in store within

[00:51:21] Um, it will still catch you off guard with like the clever way that these two have been the genre and it plays so well off of

[00:51:27] Honestly the current paranoia too, which we didn't touch on of everything we're dealing with in america

[00:51:32] So make sure to call your local shop and let them know you want it because those advanced orders are everything especially here

[00:51:37] Terry import sec. Thanks for coming on the show today. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you

[00:51:42] Yeah, well, thanks so much for having us

[00:51:44] Absolutely. Well, this is bernielland on behalf of all of us at comic book yeti

[00:51:47] Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time. Take care everybody

[00:51:50] This is berniell one of your hosts of the cryptic creative corner brought to you by comic book yeti

[00:51:56] We hope you've enjoyed this episode of our podcast

[00:51:59] Please rate review subscribe all that good stuff

[00:52:03] It lets us know how we're doing and more importantly how we can improve

[00:52:08] Thanks for listening

[00:52:09] If you enjoyed this episode of the cryptic creator corner, maybe you would enjoy our sister podcast into the comics kate

[00:52:17] Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts

[00:52:26] The great visionary leader of india

[00:52:29] Mahatma Gandhi said

[00:52:31] It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver

[00:52:36] Listen to the healthy grocer radio show on your favorite podcast platform

[00:52:40] We know that health is our greatest wealth and we will be discussing all aspects of natural healing

[00:52:46] Explore everything from supplements superfoods and healthy lifestyle choices to help conquer stress and boost productivity

[00:52:53] Top industry experts and natural health professionals join us for a deep dive into our healing journey

[00:52:59] You can find the healthy grocer radio show on demand every day wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts

[00:53:05] And remember health is your greatest wealth